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Old 19th June 2015, 01:14 PM   #121
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I picture a little stumble backwards, the first time; a little forced. You feel a pinch of guilt because you helped it along; but in the melee of older students all flying backwards and rolling, you think perhaps you caught the edge of the blast. Yeah, that's it. The edge and you were just moving backwards to stabilize yourself. That was it.

The next time you spend more time watching the others and you find you can't remember how your legs moved you into this crumpled pile. The master touches your shoulder, it's reassuring.

Thereafter you can leave the motive parts to run their course while your mind dwells in syncopation with your esteemed fellows in the art. The psi blows are becoming very real to you now, they're all you talk of amongst yourselves.

You are there; riding the chi.
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Old 19th June 2015, 01:52 PM   #122
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I think Donn has the right of it; it's a form of playacting, where you gradually convince yourself it's true.

I think this is a very common thing, and if it isn't the biggest explanation of bigfooters, well, it's up there.
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Old 19th June 2015, 10:51 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
I picture a little stumble backwards, the first time; a little forced. You feel a pinch of guilt because you helped it along; but in the melee of older students all flying backwards and rolling, you think perhaps you caught the edge of the blast. Yeah, that's it. The edge and you were just moving backwards to stabilize yourself. That was it.

The next time you spend more time watching the others and you find you can't remember how your legs moved you into this crumpled pile. The master touches your shoulder, it's reassuring.

Thereafter you can leave the motive parts to run their course while your mind dwells in syncopation with your esteemed fellows in the art. The psi blows are becoming very real to you now, they're all you talk of amongst yourselves.

You are there; riding the chi.
Originally Posted by John Nowak View Post
I think Donn has the right of it; it's a form of playacting, where you gradually convince yourself it's true.

I think this is a very common thing, and if it isn't the biggest explanation of bigfooters, well, it's up there.
My first thoughts turned to the followers of tent revival style faith healers.
People are strange.
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Old 20th June 2015, 08:35 AM   #124
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Yes; tandem movement, tandem behaviour, is a definite human property. Chanting, rhythm, the movement of sound too. Resigning to a crowd. All these things.
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Old 20th June 2015, 08:46 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
My first thoughts turned to the followers of tent revival style faith healers.
People are strange.
Yeah, that's a great analogy. This is another form of faith healing.

The second video with the MMA fighter was the most startling. The "qi expert" either thought the fix was in, or he really believed he had qi powers. I tend to the latter.

I feel bad for the MMA fighter. Rightly or wrongly, I got the sense that he felt awful about hitting a little old man so hard.
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Old 13th January 2016, 08:25 AM   #126
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YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE





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Old 13th January 2016, 03:40 PM   #127
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My favorite part is the stick at the 5:21 mark in the third one.
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Old 3rd March 2016, 04:49 PM   #128
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Another Yellow Bamboo fail:
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Some Russian contactless martial art fail:
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I am guessing it was intended to be a demo of this sort of thing:
https://youtu.be/ndpStzQRBR8 (linked directly because it won't play as an embedded video).

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Old 4th March 2016, 04:38 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
Another Yellow Bamboo fail:
Wow, I feel awful after watching that. Hope the viewers took the lesson to heart.
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Old 4th March 2016, 12:41 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by John Nowak View Post
Wow, I feel awful after watching that. Hope the viewers took the lesson to heart.
Yes, you have to feel bad for her.

However, I also felt amused about how after the guy with the ponytail brutally mows her down he checks on her and, after someone takes over tending to her, he starts flopping around on the ground next to her as if to convey that, even though he was not stopped by the Yellow Bamboo nonsense, the technique was still effective, after all (even if perhaps only in a 'the operation was a success but the patient died' sort of way)
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Old 4th March 2016, 02:07 PM   #131
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Actually, I am not convinced by this video. There are too many cameras, too many angles, and the editing is superb. It looks like a professional job trying to look like an amateur video.
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Old 4th March 2016, 02:49 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
Actually, I am not convinced by this video. There are too many cameras, too many angles, and the editing is superb. It looks like a professional job trying to look like an amateur video.
It's a clip from an award-winning indie film that was released a few years ago. Here's the IMDB page: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1173922/
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Old 4th March 2016, 06:16 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
It's a clip from an award-winning indie film that was released a few years ago. Here's the IMDB page: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1173922/
Well, I feel like Mr. Silly right now. Looking at the clip again, it's so obviously shot like a film.

I think her curling into a ball and sobbing is so real and so unusual for a film that it fooled me.
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Old 4th March 2016, 09:41 PM   #134
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I don't understand what happened in that scene. Why would Seizure Man charge at someone who obviously isn't ready, why would he not stop before getting there like he had before, and, when one of the other people with her saw him coming, why did she pull Magnus out of the way instead of letting Seizure Man just hit Magnus?
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Old 5th March 2016, 03:20 AM   #135
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Lol! The look on the gray shirted guy's face at :48 sec in the first video...as if to say "what...the ****...is that guy flopping around for. When is this vacation over?

Precious. I assume he's a believer by the simple fact that he is there, but it just seems like one of those moments we all have when we slowly start waking up to the truth.
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Old 5th March 2016, 04:24 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I don't understand what happened in that scene. Why would Seizure Man charge at someone who obviously isn't ready, why would he not stop before getting there like he had before, and, when one of the other people with her saw him coming, why did she pull Magnus out of the way instead of letting Seizure Man just hit Magnus?
He can't stop because it doesn't "work" unless the intent is real. In order to deflect the attack, the attacker has to believe that he will actually hit you if you don't deflect it.

Or something.
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Old 5th March 2016, 06:32 PM   #137
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Wonderful thread. Live Action Alternate Reality Gaming examples:

- no touch martial arts students falling down cooperatively
- evangelicals falling to the floor, spirit slayer style. Benny Hill! Woot!
- evangelicals speaking in tongues
- faith healings
- bigfooters

Someone mentioned "conformity" literature, a more general idea it seems with one example of an evangelical in this thread who did not conform despite the peer pressure. I conformed, lol. But I had to leave instead of keep on pretending.

I'd like to add mass hypnotizing and mass hallucination to the list. I've seen mass hypnosis, just so terribly bad it was a lot of fun. At the state fair several years, the guy had some kind of fair circuit.

He gets the kids from the local high school to go on stage, 10-20 of them. He has them do all kinds of silly things, and they laugh hysterically. The kids have a "pick me! pick me!" eagerness to do the stupidest thing he suggests. He just snaps his finger and tells them they are hypnotized.

Nobody volunteers in order to "debunk" mass hypnosis, not that I have seen. Everyone has fun playing along. But it's pretty impressive I think that it isn't like the Society for Creative Anachronism where everyone dresses up in fantasy era clothes and does a skit of sorts. It's whoever is at the state fair going by the central outdoor theater, the hypnotist happens to be starting, it's free, you can suddenly be on stage at the fair - that's his recruiting pool for volunteers.

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Old 6th March 2016, 02:05 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Why would Seizure Man charge at someone who obviously isn't ready, why would he not stop before getting there like he had before, […]
That was another indicator that should tell us that the video sequence was faked. His seizure shows that he is a believer, but a believer would have dropped before he hit the defender.
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Old 9th April 2016, 08:03 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
Some Russian contactless martial art fail:
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Here's the cat version of this:
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Old 2nd May 2016, 01:59 PM   #140
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There was a similarly sad/hilarious video making the rounds a number of years back, in which a young practitioner of "Rad Ki" - which is/was basically Empty Force/Red Bamboo/etc. filtered through Japanese anime cartoons and a seriously delusional worldview - came up against a young MMA fighter.

The two met in a forest clearing (seriously!) and the Rad Ki master, who can't have been older than 17 (still old enough to know better) was given one free ki-blast at the MMA kid. Nothing happens. MMA Kid then proceeds to pummel Rad Ki Master until Rad Ki surrenders, whining "You had a shield up!"

Apparently, in the world of Rad Ki, your energy blasts don't work if the other guy has an energy shield, so MMA Kid must have been a secret Rad Ki Master himself!
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Old 2nd May 2016, 06:42 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Mackenberg View Post
There was a similarly sad/hilarious video making the rounds a number of years back, in which a young practitioner of "Rad Ki" - which is/was basically Empty Force/Red Bamboo/etc. filtered through Japanese anime cartoons and a seriously delusional worldview - came up against a young MMA fighter.

The two met in a forest clearing (seriously!) and the Rad Ki master, who can't have been older than 17 (still old enough to know better) was given one free ki-blast at the MMA kid. Nothing happens. MMA Kid then proceeds to pummel Rad Ki Master until Rad Ki surrenders, whining "You had a shield up!"

Apparently, in the world of Rad Ki, your energy blasts don't work if the other guy has an energy shield, so MMA Kid must have been a secret Rad Ki Master himself!
I'd love to see that one. It doesn't sound familiar.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 08:53 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
I'd love to see that one. It doesn't sound familiar.
I have no idea if it's still available anywhere - this was at least ten years ago, so pre-YouTube, etc.

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Old 2nd May 2016, 11:53 PM   #143
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Bullshido http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21027
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Old 8th May 2016, 09:33 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Oh, dear! That was kind of pathetic.

Now that I think about it, I may have met someone who thought they could do that. I guess I should have asked for a demo but it's very hard to pretend to take something like this seriously.
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Old 9th May 2016, 08:24 PM   #145
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This is what I get from the one Wudang posted:




Does anyone have a better link?
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Old 10th May 2016, 02:25 AM   #146
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The file plays under VLC but not windows movie player.


https://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html
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Old 10th May 2016, 03:37 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
He can't stop because it doesn't "work" unless the intent is real. In order to deflect the attack, the attacker has to believe that he will actually hit you if you don't deflect it.

Or something.
Yep. I know Peter and Fraser who were the BJJ guys playing with the yellow bamboo guys on the beach and that is indeed the claim. They need the anger or negative energy or something.
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Old 10th May 2016, 03:43 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
The file plays under VLC but not windows movie player.


https://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html
Oh the pixels! Oh my eyes!
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Old 10th May 2016, 05:18 AM   #149
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I saved it, and Win10 played it.

Unfortunately...
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Old 10th May 2016, 07:19 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by John Nowak View Post
Well, I feel like Mr. Silly right now. Looking at the clip again, it's so obviously shot like a film.

I think her curling into a ball and sobbing is so real and so unusual for a film that it fooled me.
Just to be clear, "Three Miles North of Molkom" is an indie documentary rather than a work of fiction and the event we're dicussing here was (in all likelihood) not scripted. It was shot and edited by a professional crew, but the "instructor" really did barrel into the poor woman and she clearly was hurt.

If you watch the full documentary (which is well worth your time), the "instructor" gets quite angry with the class after the accident shown in this clip; apparently some of them weren't where they were supposed to be, doing what they were supposed to do, and he blames them for the accident.

The reality, IMO, is that he was in the position of choosing, in the split second before impact, between his belief in metaphysics and the physical reality of momentum, and he went with metaphysics. That choice made, since he didn't receive the visual cue of being zapped by the Yellow Bamboo jazz hands, he had no choice but to keep going and slam into his elderly female student who also trusted in metaphysics to keep her safe.

And they say belief in this stuff does no real harm.
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Old 14th May 2016, 08:27 PM   #151
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It seems to me, just watching some of these flailing idiots, that the "students" not only want to believe, but, on some level, must actively wish to be deceived. I think a lot of this type of conformist behavior is a sub-conscience need to alleviate one's self of personal responsibility.

Real fighting skills require dedication, training, and practice. They require the practitioner to be responsible for his or her actions, not only while fighting, but also during preparation and training. These types of woo "fighting" techniques don't require anything on the part of the student but unwavering dedication to the "master." It's a way for them to achieving a sense of personal importance, because it allows them to accomplish something significant in their own minds, when in fact they haven't done anything at all.

In a way, it's somewhat similar to religion, where believers use their faith to relieve their guilt for the things they do. "Hey, I beat and raped my wife, but me and the pastor prayed about it, I told her I was sorry, so now it's alright." They say the magic words, their God forgives them, so now they don't have to feel bad about it anymore. It's an attempt to abdicate responsibility.

I think in this case, the students seek something to believe in which requires nothing of them. Like the believer who let's himself off the hook through God, who requires nothing other then saying the right things, the students get the benefits without the real sacrifice. They get to tell themselves that they are special and skilled. I think this is why so many of them stay, even in the face of insurmountable evidence and repeated failures, because to leave means they have to face themselves.
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Old 14th May 2016, 08:41 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by simonxlong View Post
It's a way for them to achieving a sense of personal importance, because it allows them to accomplish something significant in their own minds, when in fact they haven't done anything at all.

In a way, it's somewhat similar to religion, where believers use their faith to relieve their guilt for the things they do.
It even looks like religion of the holy roller sort, or the magical healing performances. I do think there's definitely an exploitation of some similar human trait.

Like for example:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a54iqEr1flQ
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Old 23rd July 2016, 09:29 AM   #153
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Beyond the amusement value of these demonstrations, I think that it is important to promote these videos because the transparently nonsensical application of chi to the martial arts makes for a perfect metaphor to its application to healthcare.

In a way, it's not even a a true metaphor because the "energies" that are allegedly being manipulated in both instances are supposed to be literally the same thing: one thing is not merely like the other, it is actually the same thing as the other. All of it is nonsense but it is probably a lot easier for for many people to grasp that it is nonsense when seen in the context of comical no-touch martial arts demonstrations (even though, obviously, a lot of people will still manage to be fooled by the martial arts version of this —but no outreach strategy is likely to work 100% of the time).

Say something like "do you realize that, just as there are people who think that they can physically move you (or even incapacitate you) by moving chi around, there are also people (sometimes the same people) who think that they can heal you by moving your chi?".
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Old 23rd July 2016, 09:31 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
(even though, obviously, a lot of people will still manage to be fooled by the martial arts version of this —but no outreach strategy is likely to work 100% of the time)
As I pointed out before, It certainly seems to have fooled Bill Moyers in 1993.
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Old 23rd July 2016, 10:52 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
Beyond the amusement value of these demonstrations, I think that it is important to promote these videos because the transparently nonsensical application of chi to the martial arts makes for a perfect metaphor to its application to healthcare.

In a way, it's not even a a true metaphor because the "energies" that are allegedly being manipulated in both instances are supposed to be literally the same thing: one thing is not merely like the other, it is actually the same thing as the other. All of it is nonsense but it is probably a lot easier for for many people to grasp that it is nonsense when seen in the context of comical no-touch martial arts demonstrations (even though, obviously, a lot of people will still manage to be fooled by the martial arts version of this —but no outreach strategy is likely to work 100% of the time).

Say something like "do you realize that, just as there are people who think that they can physically move you (or even incapacitate you) by moving chi around, there are also people (sometimes the same people) who think that they can heal you by moving your chi?".
I agree. Additionally, it makes me wonder how many "students" of these disciplines have been hurt using this nonsense and we simply don't hear about it. If you were a student and someone attacked you, you might try using these techniques. After the fight, mugging, assault, etc..., I think you would be disinclined to tell anyone about your failure with the technique. Either you would come to believe the technique was bogus, and therefore stay silent out of embarrassment, or you would believe you had failed and done something wrong / not been worthy (the most likely option of a true believer I would think), and stay silent out of shame in failing to live up to the Master's teaching.

What brought this thought up in my mind was an incident in high school that until reading this thread I had always just laughed about. When I was in high school in the 90's, two students named Justin and Chris hated each other and ended up in several fights (all caused by Justin bothering Chris). Unfortunately, Justin couldn't fight to save his life, yet insisted on continuing to antagonize Chris on multiple occasions.

In PE one afternoon, Justin threw a kick ball and hit Chris square in the face with it. Chris proceeded to throw Justin to the ground. When Justin got back up, he held his hands out in front of him and held his index fingers and thumbs in the shape of a triangle pointing directly at Chris, and then seemed to focus in deeply. Chris then proceeded to wail on Justin and leave him moaning on the floor. A couple days later, one of the guys in PE asked Justin what was with the triangle thing, and Justin said it was supposed to make Chris hit himself. We all laughed, thinking Justin was joking and just couldn't fight.

After reading this thread and looking back on it now, I have to wonder whether Justin was actually trying some of this no-touch martial arts. Justin was into a lot of woo nonsense back then and this was right around the time that George Dillman was at the height of his "career" in instructing no-touch martial arts.
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Old 25th August 2016, 07:06 PM   #156
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But you didn't finish the story.

Did Justin continue to attack Chris?
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Old 28th August 2016, 09:25 PM   #157
simonxlong
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
But you didn't finish the story.

Did Justin continue to attack Chris?
He had a couple more run ins with Chris throughout the year, including one where he got thrown down a flight of stairs, but he dropped out shortly thereafter. He knocked up his girlfriend Melissa, who had pretty religious parents, and they were forced to get married, and he had to get a job to support them. I have no idea what she saw in him, since she was fairly attractive and bright, whereas Justin was not.

Fortunately, she stayed in school, even through the pregnancy, and graduated. They lasted less than a year, and after they broke up I never heard anything else about him. I don't know if he left town or what, but I haven't run into him and nobody from my class that I have spoken to knows what happened to him either. He was always an odd bird, even without all the woo crap.
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Old 30th August 2016, 09:59 AM   #158
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Derren Brown and kung fu
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Old 11th November 2016, 01:56 PM   #159
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Going back to the video linked to in the second post of this thread, here's the rest of the story:
Quote:
Iwakura's chance for revenge on aikido was paid for by Tantei File. Over 500 people came out to the northern city of Sapporo, Yanagi's home turf, to watch him get destroyed. After the fight, Yanagi promoted himself as having a "99 percent win rate."
From http://completevaletudoaccess.blogspot.com/2009/07/legend-and-mcdojo-story-behind-kiai.html
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Old 12th May 2017, 05:42 PM   #160
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Not no-touch but still bullshido:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/world/asia/mma-martial-arts-china-tai-chi.html
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