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Tags Affordable Care Act , AHCA , donald trump , health care issues , health insurance issues , obamacare , Trumpcare

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Old 16th January 2017, 01:54 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
So under Trump's healthcare plan, I can ask him via Twitter for medical advice?
If you're hot, he will give you a personal exam.
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Old 16th January 2017, 02:08 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
My son needs a root canal and the dentist wants $1300 up front. In America that isn't "health care", yet it directly effects his health.
You don't say the price is a problem, but if it is most university dental schools have low-cost clinics where advanced students perform procedures under close supervision. Quality is generally considered pretty good because a lot of eyes are watching.
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Old 16th January 2017, 02:12 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I hear this term a lot and can't quite wrap my head around it. What's the cliffs notes version?
The Cliffs Notes version is the only one that liberals will ever read. It's why they think it's a good idea.
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Old 16th January 2017, 02:13 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
There was alrrerady insurance for everybody before Obamacare, they just had to pay for it. That'll be the new plan.
No. Insurers wouldn't sell policies to people with pre-existing conditions.
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Old 16th January 2017, 02:13 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
The Cliffs Notes version is the only one that liberals will ever read. It's why they think it's a good idea.
Please give us the full explanation then.
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Old 16th January 2017, 02:16 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
ahhh, there's the rub. In the Canadian province of Ontario dental procedures are also not covered, UNLESS, there is a danger to life involved. Not sure if root canal qualifies.
But they would pull it if need be, wouldn't they? Even if that's the case, if I didn't have to pay $700 a month of healthcare I could probably shrug my shoulders at the bill. It's not going to bankrupt me now, but I think it's entirely too much for 45 minutes of work.

Not that I expect our healthcare would completely alleviate me of any form of monthly bill, obviously there would be an increase in taxes. That being said, even $200 more per paycheck in taxes would put extra money in my pocket. That doesn't include any of the bonuses of not having a doctor bill.

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You don't say the price is a problem, but if it is most university dental schools have low-cost clinics where advanced students perform procedures under close supervision. Quality is generally considered pretty good because a lot of eyes are watching.
Yeah, we don't really have that option where I live. North Dakota isn't well known for our dental schools. I could check and see if the University of North Dakota does something like that, but even that's a pain.
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Old 16th January 2017, 02:17 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Please give us the full explanation then.
I'll pass. The level of discourse here is going downhill fast, and I think it's long past time to invest elsewhere. I guess it's one of the downsides of Trump getting elected. At first, it was quite enjoyable to see liberal heads explode. Now it's just depressing.
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Old 16th January 2017, 02:30 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN15005C

The ACA requires you have health insurance.

Remember the cries of "SOCIALISM!"

Looks like Mr. Trump might be a socialist as well.

Trump vows 'insurance for everybody' in replacing Obamacare.

"“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.” Mr. Trump said.
That's a good idea,

it's from Trump?

.........****..need to reassess........
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Old 16th January 2017, 02:35 PM   #49
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To Trump, explaining himself to the media is torture. The extent to which Donald Trump believes anything he says to the press and/or intends to actually make it policy is the same as the extent to which a torture victim actually committed whatever crime he confesses to.

Besides, the US is currently being driven by Paul Ryan. Trump will have as much power over policy as Maggie does playing with her steering wheel during the credits of the Simpsons.
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Old 16th January 2017, 03:19 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The point is that the U.S spends enormous amount of money on health care now. Plans for a single-payer system would transfer the money now being spent on insurance premiums, deductibles and co-pays, uncompensated care, administrative expenses, etc. to the public purse. If your taxes went up to pay for Medicare-for-All or something like that, but you no longer had to pay insurance premiums or big deductibles, would it really be more money, and would you be better off or worse?
But they don't think about that. "Oh, may taxes will go up!" I mean, this could mean taxes go up $5000/year! How awful!

Of course, that comes with a savings of maybe $6000 in premiums and other costs, but that doesn't matter, just don't raise taxes.
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Old 16th January 2017, 03:39 PM   #51
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I think what's changed, and what will remain changed, is the idea that health insurance is the proper target, not just for federal oversight, but for federal policy - policy directed at shaping the landscape. That's a distinct difference from a few decades ago. Health insurance has become "a thing."
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Old 16th January 2017, 03:47 PM   #52
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Loss Leader, exactly. Ryan.
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1 Republicans cut tax, let everything run down to barely working...8 years
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Rinse, repeat.
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Old 16th January 2017, 03:53 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
I love how people say Trump can't provide health-care for everyone. These are the same naysayers who said he "couldn't" win. He's going to prove so many of you wrong again and again and again that eventually you're going to get tired of being proven wrong.
Different things. It was not that hard to win as these presidencies go back and forth, and there was no other Republican who had a fan base.

Being president is entirely different. Watch a few episodes of West Wing.

We have a record of Trump saying pretty much anything so until there is a concrete plan there is nothing.

Trump healthcare and Trump tax plan are not compatible.
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Last edited by Tero; 16th January 2017 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 16th January 2017, 04:10 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I'll pass. The level of discourse here is going downhill fast, and I think it's long past time to invest elsewhere. I guess it's one of the downsides of Trump getting elected. At first, it was quite enjoyable to see liberal heads explode. Now it's just depressing.
In other word you don't want to back up your claim. I am not impressed, neither am I surprised.
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Old 16th January 2017, 04:24 PM   #55
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dental is also not covered in Australia, except for certain conditions.
But what happens to people with no insurance? what on earth do you do?
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Old 16th January 2017, 04:45 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by mikado View Post
But what happens to people with no insurance? what on earth do you do?
They die, and stop becoming a burden to genuine taxpayers.

Norm
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Old 16th January 2017, 04:50 PM   #57
marplots
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Originally Posted by mikado View Post
dental is also not covered in Australia, except for certain conditions.
But what happens to people with no insurance? what on earth do you do?
Same thing you do - we do without.

In any of these systems there is a ceiling, above which no one will pay the bill. If the patient has the resources and the will, they can pay. If they don't have the money, they go without.

The difference is that, in a publicly funded program, those limits extend equally to all patients (varying, perhaps by condition or medical judgements), while in a looser system the limits are distributed throughout the system - I may hit mine before you hit yours and vice versa.

An example will help illustrate this: Suppose you are prescribed a drug that comes in a brand named version and a generic. The publicly funded plan may only pay for the generic. That's a limit. In the US, some plans may pay for the brand and some only for the generic. Presumably, any patient may pay the higher price and buy the brand name drug. Some can't afford it. There are still limits, but they vary by circumstances.
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Old 16th January 2017, 04:58 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by mikado View Post
dental is also not covered in Australia, except for certain conditions.
But what happens to people with no insurance? what on earth do you do?
Are you talking about just dental insurance, or medical insurance too? In the U.S., at least, dental insurance isn't that great a deal. Coverage limits are pretty low. People who don't have dental insurance or money to pay the bills usually end up not getting routine cleanings or services for minor issues, then having teeth pulled when more expensive treatments might have saved them.

People who don't have medical insurance often ignore problems as long as possible, then try to find charity care, or they go to emergency rooms, or they put care on plastic and wreck their credit when they're not able to pay. Often they die from problems that might have been controlled with earlier care. That's something the ACA was intended to solve.

This operation was originally created to deliver free care in third-world countries. Then they found out that the demand in the U.S. was so great that they had to do many of their clinics here.
https://ramusa.org/
http://www.newsweek.com/remote-area-...th-care-287507
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Old 16th January 2017, 05:11 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Basic health care coverage is paid by the government through taxes. In effect, the government becomes the insurer for the basics (or more depending on the system).
Sounds like a good plan to me.
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Old 16th January 2017, 05:14 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
The Cliffs Notes version is the only one that liberals will ever read. It's why they think it's a good idea.
Thank you for such a well thought out and articulate explanation.
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Old 16th January 2017, 05:16 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I'll pass. The level of discourse here is going downhill fast, and I think it's long past time to invest elsewhere. I guess it's one of the downsides of Trump getting elected. At first, it was quite enjoyable to see liberal heads explode. Now it's just depressing.
Yet it's conservatives that elected a guy with a 140 character attention span.

Seems contradictory.
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Old 16th January 2017, 05:30 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Are you talking about just dental insurance, or medical insurance too? In the U.S., at least, dental insurance isn't that great a deal. Coverage limits are pretty low. People who don't have dental insurance or money to pay the bills usually end up not getting routine cleanings or services for minor issues, then having teeth pulled when more less expensive treatments might have saved them.

People who don't have medical insurance often ignore problems as long as possible, then try to find charity care, or they go to emergency rooms, or they put care on plastic and wreck their credit when they're not able to pay. Often they die from problems that might have been controlled with earlier care. That's something the ACA was intended to solve.

I changed what I think was a mistake on your part. Preventative care is always less expensive than emergency care and is almost always more effective. All preventative healthcare should be free, especially female reproductive and prenatal care.

I agree with everything else you wrote.
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Old 16th January 2017, 06:02 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Same thing you do - we do without.

In any of these systems there is a ceiling, above which no one will pay the bill. If the patient has the resources and the will, they can pay. If they don't have the money, they go without.

The difference is that, in a publicly funded program, those limits extend equally to all patients (varying, perhaps by condition or medical judgements), while in a looser system the limits are distributed throughout the system - I may hit mine before you hit yours and vice versa.

An example will help illustrate this: Suppose you are prescribed a drug that comes in a brand named version and a generic. The publicly funded plan may only pay for the generic. That's a limit. In the US, some plans may pay for the brand and some only for the generic. Presumably, any patient may pay the higher price and buy the brand name drug. Some can't afford it. There are still limits, but they vary by circumstances.
no, we don't do without.
i had an mri at two days notice.
what happens if you are like my husband suddenly struck down with a violent gastro bug, which he couldn't manage alone in a caravan?
Off to local hospital was kept in for two nights, no charge...mind you he was dreadfully ill.
i can go to any public hospital and receive treatment. While wehave paid with our tax contribution it's free up front,
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Old 16th January 2017, 06:03 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Are you talking about just dental insurance, or medical insurance too? In the U.S., at least, dental insurance isn't that great a deal. Coverage limits are pretty low. People who don't have dental insurance or money to pay the bills usually end up not getting routine cleanings or services for minor issues, then having teeth pulled when more expensive treatments might have saved them.

People who don't have medical insurance often ignore problems as long as possible, then try to find charity care, or they go to emergency rooms, or they put care on plastic and wreck their credit when they're not able to pay. Often they die from problems that might have been controlled with earlier care. That's something the ACA was intended to solve.

This operation was originally created to deliver free care in third-world countries. Then they found out that the demand in the U.S. was so great that they had to do many of their clinics here.
https://ramusa.org/
http://www.newsweek.com/remote-area-...th-care-287507
that's terrible... how frightning.
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Old 16th January 2017, 06:21 PM   #65
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All talk, talk, talk, Mr. Trump.


Well, ok, I suppose that's a bit unfair what with the fact that he hasn't taken office yet.

If Trump actually means it, I'll give him the credit he's due. If he actually does it, I'll probably vote for him next time. However, unless I see a real plan, I'm going to assume it's part of a marketing strategy, not something he actually intends to do.
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Old 16th January 2017, 07:04 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I changed what I think was a mistake on your part. Preventative care is always less expensive than emergency care and is almost always more effective. All preventative healthcare should be free, especially female reproductive and prenatal care.

I agree with everything else you wrote.
You are 100% correct in that preventive medicine is the best and cheapest medicine. I disagree entirely though that it has to be free. I can pay and am entirely willing to pay for my own yearly check-up along with whatever lab tests might be required. I don't need an "insurance " plan to cover this routine expense. Just like I don't need or expect my auto insurance to cover preventive maintenance. What I need insurance for is for expenses that I can't afford.

Beyond that, preventive medicine is, at best, only good for catching things in their early stages when they are cheaper to treat. It doesn't actually prevent anything. The best preventive medicine is good diet, good exercise, good hygiene, not smoking and reducing stress. Those are not things doctors, hospitals and the healthcare system can enforce on patients. I'm sure you'd agree that you can't simply make those things free and thereby prevent illness.

What we need is a system that incentivizes good preventive maintenance on ourselves.
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Old 16th January 2017, 07:20 PM   #67
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Everyone will have access, but 30 million won't be able to afford it.
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Old 16th January 2017, 07:32 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by mikado View Post
dental is also not covered in Australia, except for certain conditions.
But what happens to people with no insurance? what on earth do you do?
Would a tooth needing to be pulled be covered?

I had a root canal a few years ago and just paid it. I have a thing with teeth, but if I wasn't able to afford it and was in constant pain in Australia. At that point I went into the urgent care room, would they pull it or send me to a doctor?
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Old 16th January 2017, 07:33 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by mikado View Post
no, we don't do without.
i had an mri at two days notice.
what happens if you are like my husband suddenly struck down with a violent gastro bug, which he couldn't manage alone in a caravan?
Off to local hospital was kept in for two nights, no charge...mind you he was dreadfully ill.
i can go to any public hospital and receive treatment. While wehave paid with our tax contribution it's free up front,
This was Australia, right?
There are limits there as well. You can buy health insurance to cover things not covered under the government plan. If you cannot afford to buy those things, you do without, same as us.

From http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/healthinsurance/:
"In Australia, the public health system Medicare covers most Australian residents for health care. However, Medicare does not cover everything and you can choose to take out private health insurance to give yourself a wider range of health care options and more comprehensive cover. "

I wasn't saying there were no services at all, just that there are limits.
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Old 16th January 2017, 08:06 PM   #70
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One day this may be a very interesting thread. But given Trump's.. um... random utterances... on almost all topics, we here are all just trying to sew a vest on a button (if there is even a button!). It is certain to be interesting to see the process and what comes out the other end. But who knows, including Trump, what he is really thinking of?

But it will also be a tense time for me as a person. As I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum I have very good health insurance due to my company and my willingness to pay a lot in addition to get the best coverage. For 30 years. But now what is keeping my cancer of the last 4 years under control is VERY expensive and it would bankrupt me to lose my health insurance (could you pay $300,000 by the end of this year alone)? If coverage of pre- existing conditions is not included in final Trumpcare, and the disease prevents me from still working, I will lose my existing insurance and no new company would insure me under the circumstances. I will die within months thereafter.

There are a lot of other people in the same circumstances. Perhaps anyone here who blithely proposes that lacking adequate health insurance is simply a moral fault of the consumer could explain what I did wrong?
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Old 16th January 2017, 08:12 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
There are a lot of other people in the same circumstances. Perhaps anyone here who blithely proposes that lacking adequate health insurance is simply a moral fault of the consumer could explain what I did wrong?
Here's what you did wrong: you got sick.
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Old 16th January 2017, 08:39 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Here's what you did wrong: you got sick.
Absolutely! In thinking back about it, it was sure stupid! And I even picked a disease that they were able treat and add years to my life so far, but at a financial cost At minimum if I was going to get "fatally sick" I should have gone for a massive dead-on-arrival heart attack. Much cheaper. BTW I use the quote marks because we are all fatally ill in a sense I just have a better knowledge than many what will get me in the end. But no joke- I feel fine almost all the time and if I stay insured I will be probably be annoying other posters here for a considerable length of additional time.
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Old 16th January 2017, 09:28 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Beyond that, preventive medicine is, at best, only good for catching things in their early stages when they are cheaper to treat. It doesn't actually prevent anything.

That is just completely wrong.

Case in point: immunizations. The MMR vaccine doesn't treat early stages of those three diseases, it prevents them from occurring.
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Old 16th January 2017, 09:42 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Would a tooth needing to be pulled be covered?

I had a root canal a few years ago and just paid it. I have a thing with teeth, but if I wasn't able to afford it and was in constant pain in Australia. At that point I went into the urgent care room, would they pull it or send me to a doctor?
If you are like me and don't have health insurance you pay for it yourself, I believe there are clinics for those in welfare but while dentists aren't cheap they are affordable,
As someon with serious dental issues, what would happen was if you aren't able to get into a dentist you would see a g.p., who would give you antibiotics the same as a dentist would. Our dentists really try to save teeth now, which is a good thing, or I would have lost many more.
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Old 16th January 2017, 09:43 PM   #75
mikado
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
One day this may be a very interesting thread. But given Trump's.. um... random utterances... on almost all topics, we here are all just trying to sew a vest on a button (if there is even a button!). It is certain to be interesting to see the process and what comes out the other end. But who knows, including Trump, what he is really thinking of?

But it will also be a tense time for me as a person. As I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum I have very good health insurance due to my company and my willingness to pay a lot in addition to get the best coverage. For 30 years. But now what is keeping my cancer of the last 4 years under control is VERY expensive and it would bankrupt me to lose my health insurance (could you pay $300,000 by the end of this year alone)? If coverage of pre- existing conditions is not included in final Trumpcare, and the disease prevents me from still working, I will lose my existing insurance and no new company would insure me under the circumstances. I will die within months thereafter.

There are a lot of other people in the same circumstances. Perhaps anyone here who blithely proposes that lacking adequate health insurance is simply a moral fault of the consumer could explain what I did wrong?
i am glad that you have good insurance, i so hope all goes well for you, but thankful that i am protected under our evil socialist medicine....
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:15 PM   #76
Giordano
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Originally Posted by mikado View Post
i am glad that you have good insurance, i so hope all goes well for you, but thankful that i am protected under our evil socialist medicine....
Being American, I was very lucky indeed! If I had access and finances that would have allowed only low end or even "average" health insurance, my drug co-pay alone would be costing me a huge out of pocket expense every week. And this is not even counting the other procedures I have had.

But of course it would be a privilege to die a capitalist than to live as a socialist! Everyone for themselves- the central principal some in the USA believe is the most moral position of all.

But I really didn't want to make this about me- I am doing okay. I just wanted to illustrate that the health insurance we end up with under Trump will have very real consequences and that it is not only an insure-the-poor issue. This will effect everyone here. And we haven't even discussed long term care, such as Alzheimer's disease. Good luck to every one here, but when other posters think about these political issues, please remember- no matter your political viewpoints, you are personally no more immune from the consequences of these changes than I was.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:28 PM   #77
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It's magic! Trump has a magical health care plan. Everyone gets coverage, copays are less, premiums are less. Magic I tell you, he's a magic man.
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Old 16th January 2017, 11:12 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I changed what I think was a mistake on your part. Preventative care is always less expensive than emergency care and is almost always more effective. All preventative healthcare should be free, especially female reproductive and prenatal care.

I agree with everything else you wrote.
I get your point, but my point was that just pulling a tooth is much cheaper than, say, a root canal and crown. Of course routine preventative treatment earlier would have been better.
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Old 16th January 2017, 11:28 PM   #79
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
No, not unless you are a registered Republican. You will then be required to follow his advice as well.
But Trump is so smart - he has the best brain!
Why wouldn't I follow his medical advice?
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Old 17th January 2017, 12:05 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
This was Australia, right?
There are limits there as well. You can buy health insurance to cover things not covered under the government plan. If you cannot afford to buy those things, you do without, same as us.

From http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/healthinsurance/:
"In Australia, the public health system Medicare covers most Australian residents for health care. However, Medicare does not cover everything and you can choose to take out private health insurance to give yourself a wider range of health care options and more comprehensive cover. "

I wasn't saying there were no services at all, just that there are limits.
Of course there are limits. But here we have a good, free safety net. If you want elective surgery, dental, optometry, a private hospital room and so on, you either pay the fee, or take out private insurance, as I have. It costs around $50 a week to cover me, my wife and the remaining dependent child.

If I want to go to a doctor or have to go to an ER, it is cost free. Surgery in a public hospital is free, as are emergency medical treatments.

I could do without private insurance, but I choose not to. What's wrong with a system like this?
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