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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 4th March 2017, 01:43 PM   #1
varwoche
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All things Trump + Russia

The other threads are either too general or too specific.

To start with, I'm cataloging some old news. These are the different times that Trump claimed to have a direct relationship with Putin.

Nov 2013
Roberts: Do you have a relationship with Vladimir Putin? A conversational relationship or anything that you feel you have sway or influence over his government?
Trump: I do have a relationship, and I can tell you that he's very interested in what we're doing here today.

May 2014
Trump: I spoke, indirectly and directly, with President Putin.

Oct 2015
Savage: Have you ever met Vladimir Putin?
Trump: Yes.
Savage: You have?
Trump: Yes a long time ago. We got along great.

And then of course, his infamous change of tune in Sept 2015, pre-dating the Savage interview?! Can that be right?
Originally Posted by Trump
I have no relationship to -- with him [Putin]. I have no relationship with him.
...
I have no relationship with him. I don't -- I've never met him. … I have no relationship with Putin. I don't think I've ever met him. I never met him.
...
I have never spoken to him on the phone, no.
This is incredibly bizarre no matter the facts.
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Old 4th March 2017, 01:51 PM   #2
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Saw those clips back to back yesterday on the news. The blatant dishonesty is stunning.

The web of relationships between Team Trump and Russia has a nice diagram.

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Old 4th March 2017, 02:31 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Saw those clips back to back yesterday on the news. The blatant dishonesty is stunning.

The web of relationships between Team Trump and Russia has a nice diagram.

Thanks for that, I'll try to give it a read later but I saved the diagram for reference... it's a convoluted situation.

Maddow has her teeth in this story, I hope she keeps it up next week.
The Cyprus bank/new Commerce Sec Ross angle is one of the latest.
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Old 4th March 2017, 02:38 PM   #4
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It's all been ginned up by the lying fake news media! Trump has never spoken to any foreigners! Putin doesn't exist!
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Old 4th March 2017, 02:52 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
It's all been ginned up by the lying fake news media! Trump has never spoken to any foreigners! Putin doesn't exist!
You took the words out of my mouth. See, the butthurt elitist SJW's are all butthurt. And elitist. They keep whining about how if somebody flatly contradicts themselves every single day of their entire lives, that means that person is a liar. That's fake news...#fakenews
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Old 4th March 2017, 02:55 PM   #6
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I'm as tired of hearing "Russia" as I was of hearing "emails."

What I don't get:

How Justice supposedly got information that presumably came from Russian security (Flynn's talks with ambassador).

What caused Trump to finally say he was convinced that meddling in the U.S. presidential race came from Russia.

Trump got where he is by inheriting money, running his mouth and appealing to a populist streak in voters. Putin got where he is by killing all his enemies. Trump is fundamentally outmatched and has no idea. I'm sure billions of dollars are flying around and maybe I should be more concerned about that, but unless Putin is sending pallets of cash directly to Trump, my post-election fatigue is edging out my curiosity.

ETA: If I had the radio on and only heard the words "Sergey Kislyak," I'd probably think they were talking about a hockey player.

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Old 4th March 2017, 02:59 PM   #7
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Sorry, I know this is serious, but if there's a pee-pee video can the ka-ka one be far behind?
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Old 4th March 2017, 03:24 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I'm as tired of hearing "Russia" as I was of hearing "emails."

What I don't get:

How Justice supposedly got information that presumably came from Russian security (Flynn's talks with ambassador).

What caused Trump to finally say he was convinced that meddling in the U.S. presidential race came from Russia.

Trump got where he is by inheriting money, running his mouth and appealing to a populist streak in voters. Putin got where he is by killing all his enemies. Trump is fundamentally outmatched and has no idea. I'm sure billions of dollars are flying around and maybe I should be more concerned about that, but unless Putin is sending pallets of cash directly to Trump, my post-election fatigue is edging out my curiosity.

ETA: If I had the radio on and only heard the words "Sergey Kislyak," I'd probably think they were talking about a hockey player.

The Russia connection is tremendously important not for putting a thumb on the scale in the election... but for what they'll (read Putin) want down the road.

Make no mistake... we can be cordial with Russia (read Putin), we can be trading partners with Russia, we can make treaties and agreements with Russia, but Russia's national interests and those of the US are not, and probably will never be, in close alignment.

There are any number of areas where they would like a free hand and US interests, alliances and muscle are all that stands in the way.

This administration is now chock full of wealthy and influential people who have made millions (billions?) through the good graces of, you guessed it... V. Putin. Besides the rape of the US environmental and financial landscapes to come... what favors are they going to do for Russia? (Keep in mind... in many of these areas of interest for Putin, US inaction is all he needs.)

This isn't some Rothschild's/NWO CT... it's much simpler than that.
It's just very wealthy people, using their positions to stay that way. Citizenry be damned. And this new bromance looks to be very profitable.

But given how outclassed Trump is in this match-up... I suspect it's the US citizens who'll get the shorter end of that stick.
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Old 4th March 2017, 03:44 PM   #9
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Its time for a full & thorough investigation into all things Russian.

Communications with the Trump campaign, FBI investigations into Trump, etc etc etc.
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Old 4th March 2017, 05:06 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
We know what the **** is going on, liberals are desperate! And once again, as they always have, they will fail!
Liberals didn't force Trump to slander former President Obama this morning. That's all on him.

We need an investigation to look into all of this. Trump's claims against Obama, and all other things dealing with Russia and the Trump campaign.
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Old 4th March 2017, 07:26 PM   #11
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I'm fighting my eyelids...I did my best to read this...but I think I skipped quite a bit.

Either way...Your millage may vary...

https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-f...ies-to-russia/
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Old 4th March 2017, 07:46 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
I'm fighting my eyelids...I did my best to read this...but I think I skipped quite a bit.

Either way...Your millage may vary...

https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-f...ies-to-russia/
The thing is, all of that was in the news at the time, for example that is a Nov 2016 cite. It's only now Trump is surprised and half the country has not bothered to Google related news.

Not to mention, you'd think the idiots in the Trump camp might have taken measures at the time. Yet some of Flynn's calls to the Russian ambassador were in Jan, weren't they? Surely they were at least as late as Dec.

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Old 4th March 2017, 11:29 PM   #13
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If the FISA warrant isn't public information because its an ongoing investigation, and Trump learned about the wiretapping from Breitbart, how did Breitbart get confirmation of the wiretapping/FISA warrant?
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Old 5th March 2017, 01:02 AM   #14
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Trump angry and frustrated at staff over Sessions fallout
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/04/politi...bus/index.html

It's so funny when The Hair suffers.
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Old 5th March 2017, 04:35 AM   #15
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Mod Warning I have had to move a shed load of posts from this thread either for Rule 11 or Rule 0 and/or Rule 12. Quite a few posts have been moved because they were responding to posts that breached a rule. The topic of this thread is well defined in the title of the thread. Keep to the topic.
Posted By:Darat
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Old 5th March 2017, 09:03 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The thing is, all of that was in the news at the time, for example that is a Nov 2016 cite. It's only now Trump is surprised and half the country has not bothered to Google related news.
That's why all of these right-wing "ZOMG did Obama do something illegal?!" articles being published now are laughable ********. At the time, they didn't think the news items they cite were signs the Obama Administration did anything illegal (they instead focused on denials from the Trump camp that they were involved with the server being investigated or crowing that the investigations turned up nothing and so Trump was vindicated).

This is strictly about trying to grasp at any straw they can to justify Trump's twitter rant after the fact, even if they have to contradict themselves now on what they were saying back then.
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Old 5th March 2017, 12:15 PM   #17
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Interestingly, after Watergate, several of Nixon's staff went to prison. Nixon didn't. If I was working for Trump now, I'd be getting ready to do a deal.
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Old 5th March 2017, 12:46 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
....
This is strictly about trying to grasp at any straw they can to justify Trump's twitter rant after the fact, even if they have to contradict themselves now on what they were saying back then.
The news media continues the same pattern like an abused spouse, no matter how many times Trump makes an outrageous unsupported claim via Twitter, the press makes a big story of it, (OK sort of), but then they continue with hours and hours of analysis and punditry as if the Tweet was anything other than blatant nonsense.

And as usual, they use the same formula, be sure to have a Trump spokesperson on the panel to argue straw men and false equivalencies and never sufficiently point those out.

Trumpsters have their talking points memos, look at Pelosi and Schumer talking to Russians. Never mind the circumstances of Sessions' denials were about meetings that were in the previous months to his confirmation hearing, Pelosi's was more than a decade earlier and the Russian ambassador was at a large table of participants. Shumer's meeting with Putin was at a public photo-op.

Sessions claim about what he did talk about wasn't credible given the setting and the circumstances surrounding the meeting.

Now they have Obama making an inconvenient comment when he thought the mike was off. Well, that was a news headline scandal the GOP took advantage of at the time. And again, we aren't just talking Trump telling the ambassador to wait until Trump was POTUS and he'd address the sanctions, there is also that entire layer of Russia interfering in the election. It's not that Trump said he'd revisit the sanctions, it's also that there is evidence of potential collusion in the Russian interference in the election.

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Old 5th March 2017, 01:03 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
Interestingly, after Watergate, several of Nixon's staff went to prison. Nixon didn't. If I was working for Trump now, I'd be getting ready to do a deal.
Tonight, live on breitbart tv, your host...
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Old 8th March 2017, 10:15 AM   #21
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Schiff to seek testimony from Trump 'dossier' author

Please, yes. The entertainment value alone could be comedy gold.
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Old 8th March 2017, 12:05 PM   #22
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The irony is that there are signs that Putin has become disgusted with Trump. He wanted a stupid puppet as POTUS,but not one so Stupid as to be dysfunctional.
I think Putin had a number of goals in playing around in the election:If he wanted to create chaos he has succeeded,if he wanted to get someone as Potus he could manipulate into changing policy he has failed. The whole Russia/Trump scandal has backfired;it has become politically toxic to come out in favor of a "softer" policy toward Russia, and, possibly to Putin's surprise, Trump cannot make serious changes to US policy toward Russia without Congress coming on board, and that is now impossble. It is the one area where the GOP congress critters have really pushed back on the White House.
They might try to sweep Trump's ties to Russia under the rug, but no way will they adapt a "Putin friendly" policy.
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Old 8th March 2017, 04:30 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The irony is that there are signs that Putin has become disgusted with Trump. He wanted a stupid puppet as POTUS,but not one so Stupid as to be dysfunctional.
I think Putin had a number of goals in playing around in the election:If he wanted to create chaos he has succeeded,if he wanted to get someone as Potus he could manipulate into changing policy he has failed. The whole Russia/Trump scandal has backfired;it has become politically toxic to come out in favor of a "softer" policy toward Russia, and, possibly to Putin's surprise, Trump cannot make serious changes to US policy toward Russia without Congress coming on board, and that is now impossble. It is the one area where the GOP congress critters have really pushed back on the White House.
They might try to sweep Trump's ties to Russia under the rug, but no way will they adapt a "Putin friendly" policy.
Things haven't gone perfectly, but I'd say Putin's American campaign has been a tremendous success overall.
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Old 8th March 2017, 05:52 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Things haven't gone perfectly, but I'd say Putin's American campaign has been a tremendous success overall.

Maybe, maybe not... for now.

Putin is a simple man, among other things he wants power and... profit, sanctions lifted and deals reopened; profit; NATO weakened; profit; former territory reacquired; profit; etc.

I'm not sure how comfortable the Republicans (or Dems) are going to be if we edge much closer to giving him much of that.

I mean... my god, it the Russians.

I think the still sanctioned Exxon deal is the immediate profit prize.
That's a half trillion dollar endeavor... I can't imagine ten or more of those billions don't find their way into Vlad's bank accounts.
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Old 8th March 2017, 06:05 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The irony is that there are signs that Putin has become disgusted with Trump. He wanted a stupid puppet as POTUS,but not one so Stupid as to be dysfunctional.
I think Putin had a number of goals in playing around in the election:If he wanted to create chaos he has succeeded,if he wanted to get someone as Potus he could manipulate into changing policy he has failed. The whole Russia/Trump scandal has backfired;it has become politically toxic to come out in favor of a "softer" policy toward Russia, and, possibly to Putin's surprise, Trump cannot make serious changes to US policy toward Russia without Congress coming on board, and that is now impossble. It is the one area where the GOP congress critters have really pushed back on the White House.
They might try to sweep Trump's ties to Russia under the rug, but no way will they adapt a "Putin friendly" policy.
There's also the speculation that his goal was less about putting Trump in the White House than making sure Clinton lost. That Trump would be a blob of clay Putin could mold was just icing on the cake, and that if he turned out to less than malleable, well, Putin could live with that.
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Old 8th March 2017, 06:37 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
Maybe, maybe not... for now.

Putin is a simple man, among other things he wants power and... profit, sanctions lifted and deals reopened; profit; NATO weakened; profit; former territory reacquired; profit; etc.
Looking at both the Russian domestic and international landscapes, including Putin's current personal net worth, I can't see any reasonable assessment other than yuuuge success. How long things stay that way, I don't know.
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Old 8th March 2017, 07:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Looking at both the Russian domestic and international landscapes, including Putin's current personal net worth, I can't see any reasonable assessment other than yuuuge success. How long things stay that way, I don't know.

Well the groundwork for future endeavors has been laid as well, without a doubt.

He solidified his position pre-2000... he seems comfortable taking the long view. And his use of leverage purposely gathered decades earlier shows he's patient.
I said he had simple goals... not that he's in any way a stupid man. Quite the opposite in fact. Without active resistance... he'll get there in the end.

Wherever that may be. You can usually find it by following the trail of bodies.


eta: It just occurred to me... he's probably laughed himself sore over the way we name major division heads "Czar".
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Old 8th March 2017, 07:41 PM   #28
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Trying to watch Maddow between pizza shell proofings, but...

It looks like I'm on the same page she is, though she has a far greater and deeper knowledge of the issues.

We and Russia are not ideological allies.
And they have been gutting our governmental resistance to their (Putin's) desires.

If the GOP hasn't been listening to her and the like... they damn well better start.
Depending on if this gets bad or gets reined back in... they're going to have to explain their individual positions on all of this.
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Old 8th March 2017, 07:59 PM   #29
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Right on.
Quote:
Meanwhile, Maddow is absolutely killing it again. Probably won't result in the lengthy prison terms called for, but at least there'll be a record.
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Old 9th March 2017, 02:39 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
If the FISA warrant isn't public information because its an ongoing investigation, and Trump learned about the wiretapping from Breitbart, how did Breitbart get confirmation of the wiretapping/FISA warrant?
FISA court proceedings aren't public info b/c it's a SECRET COURT. It's my (limited) understanding that court proceedings are classified, and undergo the same declassification procedures and process as other government classified info (aka WikiLeaks).

Any reasonable person should find the idea of secret courts and mass surveillance as revolting and antithetical to liberty and a limited state - and both big parties carry a lot of blame.

Breitbart was reporting on a 'Heat Street' (owned by New Corp!) article (someone gave the link above, but BBC & The Guardian have similar related reports.

So we have ...
http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...dermine-trump/

https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-f...ies-to-russia/

but with more credibility IMO,
From January,
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38589427

Quote:
Their first [FISA] application, in June, was rejected outright by the judge. They returned with a more narrowly drawn order in July and were rejected again. Finally, before a new judge, the order was granted, on 15 October, three weeks before election day.

Neither Mr Trump nor his associates are named in the Fisa order, which would only cover foreign citizens or foreign entities - in this case the Russian banks. But ultimately, the investigation is looking for transfers of money from Russia to the United States, each one, if proved, a felony offence.
A lawyer- outside the Department of Justice but familiar with the case - told me that three of Mr Trump's associates were the subject of the inquiry. "But it's clear this is about Trump," he said.
and

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ussia-contacts

Quote:
The Guardian has learned that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (Fisa) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The Fisa court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October, but that has not been confirmed, and it is not clear whether any warrant led to a full investigation.
*BUT* you should search the more recent TheGuardian articles where they equivocate parts of this.


------
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The news media continues the same pattern like an abused spouse, no matter how many times Trump makes an outrageous unsupported claim via Twitter, the press makes a big story of it, (OK sort of), but then they continue with hours and hours of analysis and punditry as if the Tweet was anything other than blatant nonsense.
You missed that this is OBVIOUS Left-media trolling by Trump, and not "nonsense", but targeted bee stings INTENDED to create Left-outrage. Obama did similar ~8 years ago when he failed to release his birth certificate for 2+yrs (5/2011) in order to keep the Right-crazies in turmoil. Trump is just doing the same to the Left. It's sort of an advanced form of feces-flinging that ill-mannered, uncivil politicians engage in to enrage their opposition. 'Don't feed the trolls' still applies.


===


More interesting is that the Dem party is now the "conservative" party, trying to prevent change, and re-create a fabled past state of affairs. They aren't using the "Red scare" tactic very effectively.

Is anyone alarmed that a Hotelier building in Abu Dhabi deals with money from the Russian Kleptocracy ? Is anyone surprised that the CEO of a major multi-national oil company has dealt with Russia (the 2nd/3rd oil producer) ? Sheesh Armand Hammer was promoting Russian relations during the cold war era.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand_Hammer
Is anyone surprised that members of the executive & legislative branch have met with the Russian Ambassador to the US ? Of course we expect, based on history, that the Russian Embassy & NATO staff support espionage (and presumably ours do the same), but calling Kislyak, the Russian ambassador "one of Russia's top spies" is laughable hyperbole, and irresponsible yellow journalism.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/01/politi...ngs/index.html


Then there is the "Russian Attack of the US" Left taking point; pure "1984" Ministry of Truth language distortion. SOMEONE hacked the Dem Party servers, b/c of a phishing exploit, wherein Podesta changed his password to "password" ! This talking point is wrong-headed for three reasons. No one can ascertain that Russia was behind this except by circumstantial evidence - readily manufactured to mislead. The Dem party is a private organization, not "the USA". The Dem party is free to secure their servers or not. I find their lack of security very unfortunate for the republic, but doesn't rise to the level of "attack". As long ago as 28 years ago, I worked on computer systems that required serious passwords - why the Dem IT staff failed to use (probably actively disabled) this basic system management feature or better yet used smart-cards or keys - suggests IT incompetence. It may be "naughty" to stare at your neighbors when they leave their blinds open, or to read the mail your co-works leave open on their desks - but it is not an "attack" when things are made so available. I could make a more coherent argument that the Dem IT staff sabotaged the server in order to distort the election.

====

I stopped listening to Maddow some years ago - she then regularly substituted smarmy condescension for evidence, a form of an ad populam fallacy ('wink wink - we all know the REAL TRUTH', despite a lack of evidence). IOW she falls closer to a Hannity mirror image than say even an O'Reilly - and I would need a LOAD of hard evidence and more reliable review sources to believe any of these.

So far the Left has been blowing a load of smoke and Trump has thrown some of the smoke-bombs back. No fires ... yet.
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Old 9th March 2017, 09:21 AM   #31
sunmaster14
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Originally Posted by stevea View Post
FISA court proceedings aren't public info b/c it's a SECRET COURT. It's my (limited) understanding that court proceedings are classified, and undergo the same declassification procedures and process as other government classified info (aka WikiLeaks).

Any reasonable person should find the idea of secret courts and mass surveillance as revolting and antithetical to liberty and a limited state - and both big parties carry a lot of blame.

Breitbart was reporting on a 'Heat Street' (owned by New Corp!) article (someone gave the link above, but BBC & The Guardian have similar related reports.

So we have ...
http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...dermine-trump/

https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-f...ies-to-russia/

but with more credibility IMO,
From January,
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38589427



and

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ussia-contacts



*BUT* you should search the more recent TheGuardian articles where they equivocate parts of this.


------


You missed that this is OBVIOUS Left-media trolling by Trump, and not "nonsense", but targeted bee stings INTENDED to create Left-outrage. Obama did similar ~8 years ago when he failed to release his birth certificate for 2+yrs (5/2011) in order to keep the Right-crazies in turmoil. Trump is just doing the same to the Left. It's sort of an advanced form of feces-flinging that ill-mannered, uncivil politicians engage in to enrage their opposition. 'Don't feed the trolls' still applies.


===


More interesting is that the Dem party is now the "conservative" party, trying to prevent change, and re-create a fabled past state of affairs. They aren't using the "Red scare" tactic very effectively.

Is anyone alarmed that a Hotelier building in Abu Dhabi deals with money from the Russian Kleptocracy ? Is anyone surprised that the CEO of a major multi-national oil company has dealt with Russia (the 2nd/3rd oil producer) ? Sheesh Armand Hammer was promoting Russian relations during the cold war era.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand_Hammer
Is anyone surprised that members of the executive & legislative branch have met with the Russian Ambassador to the US ? Of course we expect, based on history, that the Russian Embassy & NATO staff support espionage (and presumably ours do the same), but calling Kislyak, the Russian ambassador "one of Russia's top spies" is laughable hyperbole, and irresponsible yellow journalism.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/01/politi...ngs/index.html


Then there is the "Russian Attack of the US" Left taking point; pure "1984" Ministry of Truth language distortion. SOMEONE hacked the Dem Party servers, b/c of a phishing exploit, wherein Podesta changed his password to "password" ! This talking point is wrong-headed for three reasons. No one can ascertain that Russia was behind this except by circumstantial evidence - readily manufactured to mislead. The Dem party is a private organization, not "the USA". The Dem party is free to secure their servers or not. I find their lack of security very unfortunate for the republic, but doesn't rise to the level of "attack". As long ago as 28 years ago, I worked on computer systems that required serious passwords - why the Dem IT staff failed to use (probably actively disabled) this basic system management feature or better yet used smart-cards or keys - suggests IT incompetence. It may be "naughty" to stare at your neighbors when they leave their blinds open, or to read the mail your co-works leave open on their desks - but it is not an "attack" when things are made so available. I could make a more coherent argument that the Dem IT staff sabotaged the server in order to distort the election.

====

I stopped listening to Maddow some years ago - she then regularly substituted smarmy condescension for evidence, a form of an ad populam fallacy ('wink wink - we all know the REAL TRUTH', despite a lack of evidence). IOW she falls closer to a Hannity mirror image than say even an O'Reilly - and I would need a LOAD of hard evidence and more reliable review sources to believe any of these.

So far the Left has been blowing a load of smoke and Trump has thrown some of the smoke-bombs back. No fires ... yet.
All very well said and insightful.
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Old 9th March 2017, 09:37 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by stevea View Post
FISA court proceedings aren't public info b/c it's a SECRET COURT. It's my (limited) understanding that court proceedings are classified, and undergo the same declassification procedures and process as other government classified info (aka WikiLeaks).

Any reasonable person should find the idea of secret courts and mass surveillance as revolting and antithetical to liberty and a limited state - and both big parties carry a lot of blame.
Which is true, but irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Quote:
Breitbart was reporting on a 'Heat Street' (owned by New Corp!) article (someone gave the link above, but BBC & The Guardian have similar related reports.

So we have ...
http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...dermine-trump/

https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-f...ies-to-russia/

but with more credibility IMO,
From January,
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38589427



and

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ussia-contacts
Which means Trump's claim that Obama was tapping his phones in Trump Tower is false.

Quote:
You missed that this is OBVIOUS Left-media trolling by Trump, and not "nonsense", but targeted bee stings INTENDED to create Left-outrage.
Which means that Trump's claim that Obama was tapping his phones in Trump Tower is not only false, it was deliberately false.

Quote:
Obama did similar ~8 years ago when he failed to release his birth certificate for 2+yrs (5/2011) in order to keep the Right-crazies in turmoil. Trump is just doing the same to the Left. It's sort of an advanced form of feces-flinging that ill-mannered, uncivil politicians engage in to enrage their opposition. 'Don't feed the trolls' still applies.
Not really. Long before he was elected, Obama released the short-form birth certificate that Hawaii issues to everyone who requests a copy. He only took the time and effort to get Hawaii to go outside their own established procedures and issue him a copy of his original birth certificate in 2011 because people like Trump wouldn't stop their false claims that his short form certificate was fraudulent. And even then, his "trolling" didn't involve deliberate lies the way Trump's wiretapping claims do - his long form certificate showed that his short form certificate was, indeed, entirely accurate and legitimate.

Quote:
More interesting is that the Dem party is now the "conservative" party, trying to prevent change, and re-create a fabled past state of affairs. They aren't using the "Red scare" tactic very effectively.
Not nearly as interesting how the Republican party went from "Russia is the greatest threat ever" when Romney was running to "illicit contacts with Russia by the campaign of the candidate who the Russians intervened in the election to try and help? Meh."
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Old 9th March 2017, 09:53 AM   #33
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Old 9th March 2017, 09:56 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post

<snip>

Not nearly as interesting how the Republican party went from "Russia is the greatest threat ever" when Romney was running to "illicit contacts with Russia by the campaign of the candidate who the Russians intervened in the election to try and help? Meh."
Illicit?
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Old 9th March 2017, 02:06 PM   #35
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YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Keeps piling up.
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Old 9th March 2017, 02:48 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by stevea View Post
.... You missed that this is OBVIOUS Left-media trolling by Trump, and not "nonsense", but targeted bee stings INTENDED to create Left-outrage. ...
Not sure what your point is but you missed mine. Anyone who thinks Trump actually has a plan when he Tweets his outrageous nonsense hasn't been paying attention.

Trump Tweets like a petulant child because he is a petulant child.

It's no more complex than that, no more thought out than that, no diabolical strategy, nada. We have more than a year of evidence supporting that conclusion but some people just can't believe Trump actually has a bonafide personality disorder so they add all this nonsense to explain his behavior.
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Old 9th March 2017, 02:53 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Keeps piling up.
C'mon, it's perfectly normal for Russian officials to help the Republican party modify it's platform by changing one plank which, coincidentally, directly benefits the Putin regime. Happens all the time. I mean, it's not as if there was any quid pro quo or anything.
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Old 9th March 2017, 03:25 PM   #38
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FBI still investigating computer link between Trump Organization and Russian bank.

Quote:
Federal investigators and computer scientists continue to examine whether there was a computer server connection between the Trump Organization and a Russian bank, sources close to the investigation tell CNN.

Questions about the possible connection were widely dismissed four months ago. But the FBI's investigation remains open, the sources said, and is in the hands of the FBI's counterintelligence team -- the same one looking into Russia's suspected interference in the 2016 election.

One U.S. official said investigators find the server relationship "odd" and are not ignoring it. But the official said there is still more work for the FBI to do. Investigators have not yet determined whether a connection would be significant.
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Old 9th March 2017, 03:31 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
C'mon, it's perfectly normal for Russian officials to help the Republican party modify it's platform by changing one plank which, coincidentally, directly benefits the Putin regime. Happens all the time. I mean, it's not as if there was any quid pro quo or anything.
Worse yet, the Trump camp denied involvement in the change -- yet another blatant lie -- as if it happened by magic.

Ho hum, a day in the life of Donald Trump.
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Old 9th March 2017, 04:07 PM   #40
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For the record, here's Manafort in Aug 2016 denying Trump campaign involvement in the platform change.

Originally Posted by Manafort
It absolutely did not come from the campaign.
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