ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags donald trump , lying charges , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

Closed Thread
Old 20th March 2017, 08:38 AM   #81
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
Comey confirms there is an FBI investigation into Russian influence into the election and possible connections with Trump associates.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 09:00 AM   #82
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
FBI Director Comey on Russia: "They wanted to hurt our democracy, hurt her, help him."
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 09:14 AM   #83
Hlafordlaes
Disorder of Kilopi
 
Hlafordlaes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 5,860
Keep it coming, Stacko. I had to turn off CNN because of all the GOP harping on the other witch hunt they have in mind. I wonder what is the greater crime, leaking, or waiting until the new Director of National Intelligence and others on the incoming team make sure it is swept under the rug?
Hlafordlaes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 09:17 AM   #84
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Keep it coming, Stacko. I had to turn off CNN because of all the GOP harping on the other witch hunt they have in mind. I wonder what is the greater crime, leaking, or waiting until the new Director of National Intelligence and others on the incoming team make sure it is swept under the rug?
Trey Gowdie should probably be more careful about calling for witch hunts he might get caught up in.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 09:25 AM   #85
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
Good grief. Comey had to explain to Rep. Conaway that when one person wins an election, the other loses.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 09:36 AM   #86
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cymru
Posts: 22,590
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Sure but I think I can see what he was trying to get at. Were the Russians getting involved solely because they wanted Hillary to lose (i.e. the were implacably opposed to her for some reason, like they couldn't bear that someone who was a little careless with their emails was in the White House ) and would have been happy to see any Republican in the White House instead or were they getting involved in order that Donald Trump was going to be elected.

Of course, if the interference came after the primaries then it's a difference without distinction unless anyone seriously thinks that a third party candidate would have won.

Personally if I was a US citizen, I think a candidate that Putin doesn't like is a good thing YMMV.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 09:43 AM   #87
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
How has no Dem asked, "Why did Comey confirm Clinton probe but not Trump probe pre-election?" Almost makes you feel sorry for the fools that wanted insurance for everybody and worried about a POTUS under FBI investigation
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 09:47 AM   #88
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 10,379
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Sure but I think I can see what he was trying to get at. Were the Russians getting involved solely because they wanted Hillary to lose (i.e. the were implacably opposed to her for some reason, like they couldn't bear that someone who was a little careless with their emails was in the White House ) and would have been happy to see any Republican in the White House instead or were they getting involved in order that Donald Trump was going to be elected.

Of course, if the interference came after the primaries then it's a difference without distinction unless anyone seriously thinks that a third party candidate would have won.

Personally if I was a US citizen, I think a candidate that Putin doesn't like is a good thing YMMV.
The reasons are purportedly because (1) as SoS she said unflattering things about Putin and pursued policies he didn't like and (2) Nato expansion under Bill Clinton.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 09:51 AM   #89
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
The reasons are purportedly because (1) as SoS she said unflattering things about Putin and pursued policies he didn't like and (2) Nato expansion under Bill Clinton.
(3) Continued and strengthened sanctions against Russia

Let's not forget: Trump asked Russia to hack Clinton on live television, said they'd be "rewarded" and after floated sanctions relief.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 09:55 AM   #90
Distracted1
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,016
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
There is a distinction.

When many of the protests erupted after the Trumpsters' election, I recall a lot of derision towards the protesters as " upset because their candidate lost ". I usually retorted that that was a mis-characterization of the sentiment. The protesters were angry that Trump was elected, not that Hillary was not. Had a third party candidate won instead of Trump, the protesters (Hillary supporters or otherwise) would not have been out in such numbers.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

Last edited by Distracted1; 20th March 2017 at 10:07 AM.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 10:09 AM   #91
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
And there's the foreboding warning, "They'll be back." Comey says Russia will view 2016 intervention as successful.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 10:22 AM   #92
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
There is a distinction.

When many of the protests erupted after the Trumpsters' election, I recall a lot of derision towards the protesters as " upset because their candidate lost ". I usually retorted that that was a mis-characterization of the sentiment. The protesters were angry that Trump was elected, not that Hillary was not. Had a third party candidate won instead of Trump, the protesters (Hillary supporters or otherwise) would not have been out in such numbers.
You can pretend a third party can win all you want but America elections are effectively a contest between two parties at present. I doubt Russia gave any thought to anyone winning other than Hillary or Donald.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 10:25 AM   #93
Hlafordlaes
Disorder of Kilopi
 
Hlafordlaes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
And there's the foreboding warning, "They'll be back." Comey says Russia will view 2016 intervention as successful.
Chilling.

I'm back on, using YouTube. The chat is scary as hell. As for right now, Comey is having to treat them as children. Get a load of that guy behind Windstrup.
Hlafordlaes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 10:30 AM   #94
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
The Republicans obsession about leaking right now:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 10:35 AM   #95
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,169
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Is Fox News getting jealous of Breitbart's access?

Sorry all I can see is legs.
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 10:37 AM   #96
Hlafordlaes
Disorder of Kilopi
 
Hlafordlaes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 5,860
Stewart: "What can I do and not do?" How about, gosh, not break the law?
Hlafordlaes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 10:37 AM   #97
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,169
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Sure but I think I can see what he was trying to get at. Were the Russians getting involved solely because they wanted Hillary to lose (i.e. the were implacably opposed to her for some reason, like they couldn't bear that someone who was a little careless with their emails was in the White House ) and would have been happy to see any Republican in the White House instead or were they getting involved in order that Donald Trump was going to be elected.
There are way too many connections between Trump and his administration and the Russians for this to be coincidence.
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 10:38 AM   #98
Hlafordlaes
Disorder of Kilopi
 
Hlafordlaes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Sorry all I can see is legs.
Calm down, have some syrup.
Hlafordlaes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 10:39 AM   #99
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Stewart: "What can I do and not do?" How about, gosh, not break the law?
His whole line of questioning was dumb.

Stewart, "Will you confirm this news story?"

Comey, "No."

Stewart, "Will you confirm this news story?"

Comey, "No."

Stewart, "Will you confirm this news story?"

Comey, "No."

Repeat ad nauseam.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 10:41 AM   #100
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
There are way too many connections between Trump and his administration and the Russians for this to be coincidence.
I wouldn't want to be Roger Stone or Paul Manafort right now.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 10:41 AM   #101
Jules Galen
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,726
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
There are way too many connections between Trump and his administration and the Russians for this to be coincidence.
Try reading this for some perspective:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...-media-w471074

Hope it helps.
Jules Galen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 10:44 AM   #102
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
How has no Dem asked, "Why did Comey confirm Clinton probe but not Trump probe pre-election?" Almost makes you feel sorry for the fools that wanted insurance for everybody and worried about a POTUS under FBI investigation
Also, they should ask about the pee pee tape. It would be fun to have a clip of Comey refusing to confirm or deny if it's real.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 11:03 AM   #103
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
His whole line of questioning was dumb.

Stewart, "Will you confirm this news story?"

Comey, "No."

Stewart, "Will you confirm this news story?"

Comey, "No."

Stewart, "Will you confirm this news story?"

Comey, "No."

Repeat ad nauseam.
And now it's Adam Schiff's turn.

Schiff, "Will you confirm that Trump is under investigation?"

Comey, "No."

Schiff, "Will you confirm that Trump is under investigation?"

Comey, "No."

Schiff, "Will you confirm that Trump is under investigation?"

Comey, "No."

Repeat ad nauseam.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 11:07 AM   #104
Jules Galen
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,726
So many accusations. Not one fact.
Jules Galen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 11:12 AM   #105
Hlafordlaes
Disorder of Kilopi
 
Hlafordlaes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 5,860
Comey won't comment, unless it's HC two weeks before the election. So, that "no smear" rule is itself smeared.
Hlafordlaes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 11:12 AM   #106
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
This tweet aged well.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 11:13 AM   #107
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Comey won't comment, unless it's HC two weeks before the election. So, that "no smear" rule is itself smeared.
After all the, "Lock her up," chants, it's funny to hear Republicans bringing up that being under investigation is not the same as being guilty.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 11:19 AM   #108
Hlafordlaes
Disorder of Kilopi
 
Hlafordlaes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 5,860
Guy talking now is doing his best to confuse the baseline level of Russian interference with the focused attack favoring Trump.
Hlafordlaes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 11:33 AM   #109
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,204
I've asked before and if it's been answered bear with me. The linked story here comes from the Washington Post, but the issue was reported on by many news outlets:
Trump admits to Russian hacking even as he attacks U.S. intelligence community

What changed Trump's mind?

He dismissed the claim that Russia had compromising information on him as "fake news." But something must have been said to him, or shown to him, that led him to finally concede Russian involvement. One explanation is that he was shown or told about Russian surveillance of Trump himself. I can't imagine anything else changing his mind. Digital footprints wouldn't have done it; it would have to be a smoking gun, IMO. Something simple that Donald could understand. The existence of video he hadn't known about, or possibly even the video itself, probably would have done it. But has he or anyone else ever said what changed his mind?
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 12:17 PM   #110
Distracted1
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,016
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
You can pretend a third party can win all you want but America elections are effectively a contest between two parties at present. I doubt Russia gave any thought to anyone winning other than Hillary or Donald.
Who's pretending anything? The distinction is real, and important. If the Russians tried to influence the outcome in order to defeat Hillary Clinton- obviously they would pick the person likely to defeat her (Trump, in this case) to aid- that does not indicate any fondness for Trump, only disdain for Clinton. OTOH, if they decided to aid Trumps campaign because they expect something in return from Trump, or because they feel Trump will harm the country in some way that another candidate wouldn't, the implications are different.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 12:20 PM   #111
Hlafordlaes
Disorder of Kilopi
 
Hlafordlaes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 5,860
Gowdy is on a typical high horse that confuses the appearance of one thing with the reality of another. He's good, though, but he seems to be using words that he can spin to be on any winning side.
Hlafordlaes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 12:34 PM   #112
fagin
Illuminator
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 4,632
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
There are way too many connections between Trump and his administration and the Russians for this to be coincidence.
There's more to Trumpski than meets the Ivan.
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 12:42 PM   #113
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 37,198
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
The Republicans obsession about leaking right now:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Ah, Watergate nostalgia....
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 02:08 PM   #114
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,221
If Trump's genius 3-dimensional chess master plan in accusing Obama of wiretapping his phones was to get people to stop talking about his campaign's Russia connections and to make intelligence bigwigs deny that those connections were being investigated, it just backfired spectacularly.
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 02:15 PM   #115
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 37,198
As did Putin's supporting of Trump. It has made any softening of US policy toward Russia political Kryptonite for the GOP.
Some even feel that PUtin main goal was just causing disruption in the US Political System,with electing Trump a secondary goal.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 02:21 PM   #116
332nd
Penultimate Amazing
 
332nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,114
Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
If Trump's genius 3-dimensional chess master plan in accusing Obama of wiretapping his phones was to get people to stop talking about his campaign's Russia connections and to make intelligence bigwigs deny that those connections were being investigated, it just backfired spectacularly.
No, no, no. According to the Ponderers of All Things Trump, what's actually going on here is that he pointed to the "wiretaps" to get people to stop talking about his campaigns Russia connections PRECISELY because he'd figured out that the FBI would eventually go public with their investigation. See, they'll never actually charge him with anything because Hillary was never charged with anything, so once he gets past this, not only will he have proven that all other news is fake, but he'll be able to show that he needs to do away with the FBI & replace them with his hand picked agency.

Wheels within cubes.
__________________
The poster formerly known as Redtail
332nd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 03:17 PM   #117
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,169
Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Calm down, have some syrup.
Is it maple syrup?
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 03:41 PM   #118
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
As did Putin's supporting of Trump. It has made any softening of US policy toward Russia political Kryptonite for the GOP.
Some even feel that PUtin main goal was just causing disruption in the US Political System,with electing Trump a secondary goal.
We also learned that Russia hacked both GOP & Democratic email accounts but exploited only Democratic accounts. GOP in a very compromised position right now.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 04:37 PM   #119
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,516
Benjamin Wittes from Lawfare has a good rundown on the hearing.

Quote:
But that's reading a lot into a relatively small number of tea leaves. What is clear is that this was a very bad day for the President. In it, we learned that there is an open-ended Russia investigation with no timetable for completion, one that's going hang over Trump's head for a long time, and one to which the FBI director is entirely committed.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 20th March 2017, 06:40 PM   #120
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 15,292
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
The Republicans obsession about leaking right now:
I thought that was just Donald, and it wasn't proven.

Oh wait, wrong definition of leak.
__________________
"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:20 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.