Merged: All things Trump + Russia

[blutoski]

Originally Posted by Stacko

The emotional stability is the best part.

after @MajorCBS asks about Flynn, Trump leaves signing ceremony without signing executive orders. Pence went and picked it up from desk

To be frank, this may be literally stable. In the sense that it seems consistent.

C'mon: Trump's retired.

He seems to have been caught entirely by surprise by this win, and frankly, has no intention of doing as much work as would normally be expected of a POTUS. His goals appeared to be to leverage his media mogul career into maybe an alt right channel, but the POTUS win puts that on the backburner, and now I think he's intending to use this to maximize the family wealth, and play as much golf as possible until the hips give out.

He spent a few years showing his kids the ropes of his business network, and now they're moving into their roles on the board of directors in the White House Subsidiary.

I think we're seeing four factions in the WH:

• Trump: Objectives: family wealth, personal entertainment.
• Trump's family. Objectives: family wealth.
• Bannon and alt right. Objectives: conflicting and confusing. Mostly conflict and confusion, by the looks of it.
• Pence and aligned Republican hardliners: Objectives: privatization, theocracy and segregation.

[blutoski]

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

I doubt Flynn is willing to rat on anyone... it's just a gambit to undermine the potency of the investigation.

Or to short circuit it.

A clever move would be to say he's going to spill the beans in exchange for immunity, then reveal that the beans that he has to spill are "It was all me. Trump is innocent."

[trustbutverify]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Yeah, and there are a lot of alt-right people in Congress. But still, a political deal to keep a POTUS out of jail seems to me to be something the POTUS must have respect in order to earn it. Who respects this guy? People like Pence and Ryan kiss his ass to get stuff, but respect? I don't see it.

I don't think it's going to get to the point where Dump needs a pardon. Obviously, I hope I'm as wrong as wrong can be.

Quote:

Speaking of a different time, were you around during Nixon? There was a big issue of, how could we send a POTUS to jail. I sure don't see that now. Hell, they chanted "lock her up" at Trump's rallies. No respect there for sure.

Unfortunately, I was around during Nixon and Watergate. Despite the brutal attacks on the WP (from all sides, I might add), there were legitimate institutions providing avenues for the truth to come out, and for the various scumbags involved to at least have to face something akin to justice. I believe those institutions, in the internet age, have been compromised to the point of failure. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

As a side note, the Watergate operation was probably mundane stuff compared to their criminal operations we don't know about.

[blutoski]

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

I don't think it's going to get to the point where Dump needs a pardon. Obviously, I hope I'm as wrong as wrong can be.


Unfortunately, I was around during Nixon and Watergate. Despite the brutal attacks on the WP (from all sides, I might add), there were legitimate institutions providing avenues for the truth to come out, and for the various scumbags involved to at least have to face something akin to justice. I believe those institutions, in the internet age, have been compromised to the point of failure. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

As a side note, the Watergate operation was probably mundane stuff compared to their criminal operations we don't know about.

I agree.

Watergate was US internal palace intrigue. Which democratically elected person would be the most persuasive in the next election.

Trumpgate is the US Presidency as asset for international capitalists (American and Russian).

[trustbutverify]

Originally Posted by dudalb

I don't like Pence very much, but I feel a little sorry for him since he has to clean up so many of Donald's messes.

There are a lot of people I feel sorry for, but this prick isn't one of them.

[blutoski]

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

There are a lot of people I feel sorry for, but this prick isn't one of them.

Pence thought experiments...

• You need to transport Pence, his wife, and another woman across the river in a boat that only holds two...
• Pence comes across a woman dying on the side of the road. He has a car and can drive her to the hospital to save her life, but there's no other passenger. Will the woman's remains be buried or cremated?
• A train is hurtling down a track and will kill a poor family, but Pence can divert the train to a safer route by using a switch if he chooses. How much corporate tax subsidy will he promise in order to convince the rail company to convert the engine from diesel to coal?

[Stacko]

Originally Posted by blutoski

Pence thought experiments...

• You need to transport Pence, his wife, and another woman across the river in a boat that only holds two...
• Pence comes across a woman dying on the side of the road. He has a car and can drive her to the hospital to save her life, but there's no other passenger. Will the woman's remains be buried or cremated?
• A train is hurtling down a track and will kill a poor family, but Pence can divert the train to a safer route by using a switch if he chooses. How much corporate tax subsidy will he promise in order to convince the rail company to convert the engine from diesel to coal?

Mike Pence Asks Waiter To Remove Mrs. Butterworth From Table Until Wife Arrives

[blutoski]

Originally Posted by Stacko

Mike Pence Asks Waiter To Remove Mrs. Butterworth From Table Until Wife Arrives

In his defense, nobody can resist Mrs. Butterworth's implied promise of deliciousness on the tongue.

[blutoski]

Originally Posted by blutoski

Yep. Trump blamed the Democrats for the fact that the House couldn't pass AHCA.

Ok, right. We've proven there was treason in the Trump campaign. Damn. Um...

Oh, I've got this: Well why didn't the Obama administration catch this treason? Did they look the other way? Were they complicit? THAT'S THE REAL CRIME! Lock Him Up!

****.

Who was it that said Satire is Dead?

[White House deflects questions about Trump and Russian inquiry by pointing a finger at Obama administration]

[Mikemcc]

Originally Posted by blutoski

I think Russia and Trump are aligned on the Muslim thing.

Even if Russia is supporting the Taliban financially - which I find possible - it's in stark contrast to their overwhelming anti-Muslim attitude that has emerged after the Chechen Republic's secession attempt.

Russia is quite enthusiastic about depicting their police state a Muslim-proofed 'security'.

I can certainly vouch for that. On recent trips, the OMON were very keen on pulling folks over that were clearly guilty of being brown, especially if they were also likely to be Uzbeks.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by Resume

Not any more.

He still could - a dead Gary Shandling is still funnier than a live Billy Crystal.

[Stacko]

FBI investigation going further back than initially reported.

Quote:

CBS News has learned that U.S. investigators are looking into whether Trump campaign representatives had a role in helping Russian intelligence as it carried out cyberattacks on the Democratic National Committee and other political targets in March 2016.

This new information suggests that the FBI is going back further than originally reported to determine the extent of possible coordination. Sources say investigators are probing whether an individual or individuals connected to the campaign intentionally or unwittingly helped the Russians breach Democratic Party targets.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by Stacko

FBI investigation going further back than initially reported.

That's kinda curious. How could the GOP have aided hacking the Democrats, unless they've already performed some hacking themselves?

And I'm not sure that I think that's very plausible yet. Obviously, I could be totally wrong and perhaps we'll see, but it's not high on my list of possibilities yet.

[tyr_13]

Originally Posted by phiwum

That's kinda curious. How could the GOP have aided hacking the Democrats, unless they've already performed some hacking themselves?

And I'm not sure that I think that's very plausible yet. Obviously, I could be totally wrong and perhaps we'll see, but it's not high on my list of possibilities yet.

Painting targets.

That is to say, advising on prioritizing who to attack to get the most damage for the least effort.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by tyr_13

Painting targets.

That is to say, advising on prioritizing who to attack to get the most damage for the least effort.

Okay, I can see that. Thanks.

[Stacko]

Flynn underreported $150K+ in income on his initial financial disclosure form including cash from Russian propaganda outlet RT.

Quote:

Former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn underreported more than $150,000 in 2016 income on his initial personal financial disclosure form filed with the White House, including a financial relationship with Russian state-backed outlet RT.

Flynn, who was fired by President Trump on Feb. 13 for misleading Vice President Mike Pence on the nature of his contacts with Russian Ambassador to the U.S. Sergey Kislyak, filed his initial required disclosure form just two days before his exit from the White House.

A revised form was filed with the White House Counsel's Office on March 31, the same day the Administration made public disclosure forms for its senior employees.

[Stacko]

Originally Posted by Stacko

The emotional stability is the best part.

after @MajorCBS asks about Flynn, Trump leaves signing ceremony without signing executive orders. Pence went and picked it up from desk

The video is even better.

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/847941360401485826

He shrugs off Flynn bringing to his attention he didn't sign the EO.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Stacko

Flynn underreported $150K+ in income on his initial financial disclosure form including cash from Russian propaganda outlet RT.

Looks like he got caught red-handed and quickly filed both an updated personal financial disclosure form and his registration as a foreign agent.

[Jim_MDP]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Looks like he got caught red-handed and quickly filed both an updated personal financial disclosure form and his registration as a foreign agent.

Aren't those the sort of lapses that get Dems crucified/excoriated?


Or is the key... "caught" ?

[Stacko]

The Spanish connection with Trump’s Russia scandal

Quote:

On February 1, Alexander Torshin, 63, a Russian politician and banker who is close to Vladimir Putin and whom the Spanish anti-corruption prosecutor and the Civil Guard define in their reports as a godfather from a notorious Russian mafia organization, had in his diary for the next day an appointment to meet in Washington with the world’s most powerful man: Donald Trump. The encounter was due to take place before an official and well-attended breakfast meeting, which Torshin attended as the head of a Russian delegation. The meeting was canceled that very night, according to sources from the White House, given the wave of criticism in the US press related to the influence of determined Russian circles in President Trump’s power teams. But the information reveals the heights to which this person, who has been investigated by the Spanish authorities, had reached in his rise to the upper echelons of the American leader’s circle.

Torshin, who is currently the deputy governor of the Central Bank of Russia, has met with one of the children of the US president, has close links with the organization that provided the most money for Trump’s election campaign, the National Rifle Association (NRA), and attended the aforementioned breakfast that Donald Trump presided over in the White House in February.

The high-ranking official from the Central Bank of Russia has long been on the radar of the Spanish public prosecutor and the Civil Guard. He was on the brink of being arrested in Palma de Mallorca in the summer of 2013 during a meeting with a mafioso – who has just been sentenced in Spain – but he didn’t turn up to the meeting. A unit consisting of 12 officers was awaiting him at the airport and in a hotel, where he was expected to arrive accompanied by other people being investigated in a money-laundering ring. The Russian Federation’s Prosecutor General, which was aware that Torshin was being investigated, requested information about the case on at least two occasions, but received no response from the Spanish authorities given that the investigation was sealed.

[skyeagle409]

Could this be a Russian attempt to get the Trump/Russian pressure off Trump's back?

Quote:

Russia condemns US over 'absurd' response to Mosul civilian deaths

(CNN)Russia is stepping up its criticism of US military action in Iraq -- calling Pentagon comments about civilian casualties in Mosul "absurd."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/02/politi...ths/index.html

[BobTheCoward]

Originally Posted by skyeagle409

Could this be a Russian attempt to get the Trump/Russian pressure off Trump's back?

They could just think the comments were absurd.

[BobTheCoward]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Looks like he got caught red-handed and quickly filed both an updated personal financial disclosure form and his registration as a foreign agent.

How can you prove he didn't legitimately forget about it?

I know how absurd that question is, and I know it seems ridiculous that he would. But how does one actually go about proving it?

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

How can you prove he didn't legitimately forget about it?

I know how absurd that question is, and I know it seems ridiculous that he would. But how does one actually go about proving it?

Generally, incompetence isn't that much of a defence

[BobTheCoward]

Originally Posted by jimbob

Generally, incompetence isn't that much of a defence

It seems to be if they permit amending the statements.

[skyeagle409]

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

They could just think the comments were absurd.

It seems that with each passing week new evidence comes up in regard to Trump, Russia and his people and just recently, Flynn asked for immunity, which doesn't look good for Trump or Flynn even though his request for immunity was not accepted.

[skyeagle409]

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

How can you prove he didn't legitimately forget about it?

I know how absurd that question is, and I know it seems ridiculous that he would. But how does one actually go about proving it?

Let's just say that Flynn's past history won't help him much if at all.

[Childlike Empress]

[Sideroxylon]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

http://i.imgur.com/qh6Ycry.jpg

Trump supporter fantasy.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

How can you prove he didn't legitimately forget about it?...

Oh puhleese!

It wasn't just a conversation with the ambassador, it included a discussion about sanctions, hardly some minor side issue you simply forget about.

And if Flynn forgot he was an agent of Turkey, seriously? This is a general and cabinet post here, not some low level flunky.

Maybe you should read the details before making up a knee-jerk defense.

Here’s What Prompted Michael Flynn To Register As An Agent Of Turkey

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Trump supporter fantasy.

I'm not sure CE realizes that's a joke about Trump's imagination, not some revelation of truth.

[BobTheCoward]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Oh puhleese!

It wasn't just a conversation with the ambassador, it included a discussion about sanctions, hardly some minor side issue you simply forget about.

And if Flynn forgot he was an agent of Turkey, seriously? This is a general and cabinet post here, not some low level flunky.

Maybe you should read the details before making up a knee-jerk defense.

Here’s What Prompted Michael Flynn To Register As An Agent Of Turkey

It isn't a defense. I specifically said it would be ridiculous to claim it was an accident.

Now how does one prove they knew about it and failed to disclose rather than accidentally failed to disclose? I guess it would be actual communication that was the plan?

[CapelDodger]

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

It seems to be if they permit amending the statements.

They might take issue with it if it happens again.

[CapelDodger]

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

How can you prove he didn't legitimately forget about it?

To stand the story up you'd ideally want two sources for his expressin beforehand of an intention not to include the material. You might go with one of those and a source for him debating the issue.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I'm not sure CE realizes that's a joke about Trump's imagination, not some revelation of truth.

Sid, wanna tell her who Ben Garrison is? Your time would be better spent on trying to get your brain work straight again, though. Pity to see you fall for this mass psychosis.

[portlandatheist]

Ben Garrison is a conspiracy theorist and racist and overall lunatic.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ben_Garrison

[Tsukasa Buddha]

You can tell it is fake news because Trump looks trim and well-dressed.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

http://i.imgur.com/qh6Ycry.jpg

So why did you spend so long attacking Obama instead of singing his praises?

[Ian Osborne]

Originally Posted by Stacko

"When you are given immunity that means you've probably committed a crime."

That's so going to leap up and bite him on the backside.

[MrFliop]

The majority of the claims of Trump colluding with Russia to steal the election have been debunked!!!

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