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Tags donald trump , James Comey , Michael Flynn , Trump administration , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 10th May 2017, 07:26 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
It says only the top guys were aware, it doesn't say who leaked this to the press.
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:27 AM   #322
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And Sally Yates moves off the front page.
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:28 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
....
It doesn't belong in that letter, it's nothing to do with the action he's taking. I have to assume that a very highly paid communications professional was involved in drafting this letter, and they let that in? I guess Trump insisted on it, which is just stupid.
You got that part right.
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:31 AM   #324
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When the institutions that are supposed to keep presidential authority in check fail, as they will have if Congress fails to act against the president, what other checks and balances are left? Is it the coup d'état that some right winger on this forum talked about as a safety so we wouldn't worry about Trump?
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:31 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
That's some pretty damning stuff which one, doesn't surprise me at all, and two, damn does that bring up memories of Nixon.
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:35 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
When the institutions that are supposed to keep presidential authority in check fail, as they will have if Congress fails to act against the president, what other checks and balances are left? Is it the coup d'état that some right winger on this forum talked about as a safety so we wouldn't worry about Trump?
If the branches reach terms they agree on, that is the checks working. Going against what you want is not a failure of checks and balances.
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:36 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Who are you and what did you do with Puppycow?


I was thinking something similar.
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:39 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Good thing this doesn't violate his pledge to recuse himself.
What does that have to do with anything? Why do you think that's relevant to my point? Did I say it violated his recusal?
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:40 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Unfortunately, the GOP-controlled House and Senate will not want to cause waves w.r.t. the Trump administration and so Trump will be free to install his own creature as FBI director and then he'll have the choice of letting the FBI investigation wither and die or indeed direct it to exonerate him completely and instead blame Obama.
Nixon didn't get away with it and he's waaay smarter than Trump. There are more than enough Republicans up for re-election in 2018 that this won't happen.

Not that Trump won't try to appoint Giuliani or Christie to head the FBI. My guess is he's looking for just that much of an ass kisser. At most Trump will get his personal leaker to tell him where the Russia investigation is going.

But we still have a balance of powers here despite Trump imagining himself dictator.
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:42 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
What does that have to do with anything? Why do you think that's relevant to my point? Did I say it violated his recusal?
Whether you did or not, it made a good segue into the discussion that this doesn't violate his pledge.
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:43 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I'll grant that "hero" is a bit too strong a word.

But they sure are quick now to defend someone they were certainly demonizing a very short time ago.
No they aren't. One can say Comey should have been fired and Trump is trying to quash the Russia investigation without talking out of two sides of one's mouth.
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:44 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
...

By firing Comey, and installing his own man, Trump will have managed to stop all investigations into links with Russia.
Why did Nixon fail and why is this different?
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:44 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If the branches reach terms they agree on, that is the checks working. Going against what you want is not a failure of checks and balances.
This is yet another situation where your complete dedication to avoiding empirical reality will lead you to nonsense.

The principle of checks and balances in this country, if you read the Federalist Papers, was largely based on the idea of competing ambition. You could rely on Congress to hold the President in check because both groups would act to maximize their own power and influence.

This was a principle underlying the structure, but it was not black letter law. There is no requirement of Congress to act to maximize its own influence with regard to presidential ambition.

So, in fact, our system can easily break down if that principle is undermined and Congress behaves as a lackey for a president. We saw this happen during the Bush years when even Democrats like Hillary Clinton rolled over and gave the executive massive power over war making.

It is fully possible for Congress to arrive at terms based on their technical abilities under the law that destroys the very principles that checks and balances was based upon.
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:45 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Nixon didn't get away with it and he's waaay smarter than Trump.
Nixon didn't have the House and Senate though. Any kind of investigation needs some GOP representatives to go with the other side

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There are more than enough Republicans up for re-election in 2018 that this won't happen.
I'll believe it when I see it...
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:48 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post

It is fully possible for Congress to arrive at terms based on their technical abilities under the law that destroys the very principles that checks and balances was based upon.
The Constitution has no principles beyond the rules themselves. Any desire of the founders is rendered meaningless at the point of ratification.
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:52 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Quote:
Meanwhile, on state media...
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:57 AM   #337
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It's my understanding that the FBI is the investigative wing of the Justice Department. The FBI looks into matters and makes a recommendation to JD about prosecution. However, the JD can prosecute with or without the FBI's recommendation.

If trump is saying this about how Comey publicly handled the Clinton investigation why did trump praise Comey's action at the time?

If trump is saying it's because Comey didn't recommend prosecution of Clinton well the JD could have moved forward anyway.

If trump is saying it's because Comey botched the Clinton investigation how do they know this? Does trump and the JD have evidence damning Clinton? If so why have they not acted? Where did this evidence come from?

None of this makes much sense if one accepts the white house premise that this was about the Clinton investigation.
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:58 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
...
It may stink but almost literally no-one seems to care
Remind me what tiny corner of the world are you in?


Or are you just talking about Sessions?
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:00 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Whether you did or not, it made a good segue into the discussion that this doesn't violate his pledge.
Why do you think that is important or relevant to the discussion in the article?
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:01 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Why do you think that isn't the real reason?
Not playing your games Bob. Asking the obvious is one of those games.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 10th May 2017 at 08:05 AM.
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:01 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The Constitution has no principles beyond the rules themselves. Any desire of the founders is rendered meaningless at the point of ratification.
This is nonsense. Even the most ardent originalist would scoff at that.
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:02 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
This is nonsense. Even the most ardent originalist would scoff at that.
Original meaning originalists do not. The intent of the writer of the laws is irrelevant.

Also, death of the author is a traditionally liberal school of thought. Just because you wrote it doesn't mean you have a clue what it means.

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Old 10th May 2017, 08:04 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
...
I'll believe it when I see it...
Fair enough.
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:04 AM   #344
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The timing was, of course, glorious because the Hillary crowd was bitterly complaining about Comey all yesterday morning based on alleged misstatements about Hillary's cowboy server, and all yesterday afternoon they are praising him as the sole bulwark against Mean old Mister Trump.

At noon they wanted to run him out of town on a rail, by 6:00 they wanted to place his statue on the top of the Capitol.

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Old 10th May 2017, 08:09 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The timing was, of course, glorious because the Hillary crowd was bitterly complaining about Comey all yesterday morning based on alleged misstatements about Hillary's cowboy server, and all yesterday afternoon they are praising him as the sole bulwark against Mean old Mister Trump.

At noon they wanted to run him out of town on a rail, by 6:00 they wanted to place his statue on the top of the Capitol.
Hillary's server was a whole bunch of nothing.

You know full well why Comey was fired.
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:09 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Remind me what tiny corner of the world are you in?
The UK - Wales specifically

<-------

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Or are you just talking about Sessions?
The GOP are largely silent and will doubtless do nothing about any of this. The media may have a couple of stories today but in a couple of days there'll be a new shiny thing to distract them. The electorate, a few politically active individuals aside, couldn't really give a stuff - they're more interested in their own lives and problems - I'd be shocked if more than 1 in 10 care much less are in any way outraged by any of this.
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:10 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Original meaning originalists do not. The intent of the writer of the laws is irrelevant.

Also, death of the author is a traditionally liberal school of thought. Just because you wrote it doesn't mean you have a clue what it means.
Again, this is ignorant nonsense. The most famous Original Meaning originalist was Scalia. He absolutely looked to sources beyond the 4 corners of the document to determine that meaning.

Original Meaning theorists constantly cite the Federalist Papers and other people who weren't involved in the Constitutional Convention, like Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton.

Even the wiki contradicts your silliness:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_meaning
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:11 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Quote:
By firing Comey, and installing his own man, Trump will have managed to stop all investigations into links with Russia.
Why did Nixon fail and why is this different?
There are a couple of differences:

- Republican congresscritters seem to be more scummy these days and more protective of their turf, so they'll be willing to look the other way when it comes to Trump's corruption

- Republican voters are currently idiots (they voted for Trump after all), so those same corrupt republican congresscritters have less backlash to fear frm the electorate if they don't act
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:11 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The timing was, of course, glorious because the Hillary crowd was bitterly complaining about Comey all yesterday morning based on alleged misstatements about Hillary's cowboy server, and all yesterday afternoon they are praising him as the sole bulwark against Mean old Mister Trump.

At noon they wanted to run him out of town on a rail, by 6:00 they wanted to place his statue on the top of the Capitol.
Evidence ?
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:18 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Hillary's server was a whole bunch of nothing.

You know full well why Comey was fired.
Hmmm, that is not what Hillary was saying a couple of weeks ago, in fact she explicitly blamed Comey's letter about her email fiasco for losing her the Presidency.
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:21 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Hmmm, that is not what Hillary was saying a couple of weeks ago, in fact she explicitly blamed Comey's letter about her email fiasco for losing her the Presidency.
That changes nothing of what I said. That public opinion was swayed, assuming that's true, based on Comey's comments, does not mean that the e-mail scandal had any substance.
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:22 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Evidence ?


Quote:
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
Guy who missed the point: Evidence?
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:24 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Hmmm, that is not what Hillary was saying a couple of weeks ago, in fact she explicitly blamed Comey's letter about her email fiasco for losing her the Presidency.
That was an odd interview where she basically said she takes full responsibility and then spouted off all the reasons why it wasn't her fault.

But you've replied with a non sequitur.

You refuted the idea of the email server being a big nothing by saying that Hillary objected to it's politicization just days ahead of the election.

That doesn't address the issue of whether there was anything about the email server to be concerned about. This applies whether you believe there was any reason for concern or not, as the politicization of the investigation (and potential impact on the election) is a distinct issue from the investigation itself.
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:35 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
That was an odd interview where she basically said she takes full responsibility and then spouted off all the reasons why it wasn't her fault.

But you've replied with a non sequitur.

You refuted the idea of the email server being a big nothing by saying that Hillary objected to it's politicization just days ahead of the election.

That doesn't address the issue of whether there was anything about the email server to be concerned about. This applies whether you believe there was any reason for concern or not, as the politicization of the investigation (and potential impact on the election) is a distinct issue from the investigation itself.
I was referring to Hillary's comment where she said "“If the election had been on October 27, I would be your president,” and this:

Quote:
“I was on the way to winning until the combination of Jim Comey’s letter on October 28 and Russian WikiLeaks raised doubts in the minds of people who were inclined to vote for me but got scared off — and the evidence for that intervening event is, I think, compelling [and] persuasive,
seems like it was pretty substantive (and of course it was, because Hillary came off as a deranged pathological liar throughout the fiasco)
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:38 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I was referring to Hillary's comment where she said "“If the election had been on October 27, I would be your president,” and this:

seems like it was pretty substantive (and of course it was, because Hillary came off as a deranged pathological liar throughout the fiasco)
And this sort of ... stuff is why we have Trump as president.

I dare you to make a sillier comment. Because I'm an optimist, I still believe that you understand the distinction people made between the legitimacy of the Clinton emails as a "scandal" (whether or not there was any actual wrongdoing - there wasn't) and the effect it had on the public.

Unless you believe all the people calling in about the War of the Worlds radio program indicates that aliens were actually attacking.

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Old 10th May 2017, 08:40 AM   #356
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Whiplash candidate:

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Old 10th May 2017, 08:42 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Dumb.

For the 20th time (of what I'm assuming will be 6,000, minimum), there is nothing inconsistent about:

1) Believing that Comey acted inappropriately with regard to the Clinton emails, and

2) That Trump's firing of Comey is deeply troubling.

No one believes that Trump fired Comey because he was pissed that Comey helped Trump win the election.
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:43 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Again, this is ignorant nonsense. The most famous Original Meaning originalist was Scalia. He absolutely looked to sources beyond the 4 corners of the document to determine that meaning.

Original Meaning theorists constantly cite the Federalist Papers and other people who weren't involved in the Constitutional Convention, like Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton.

Even the wiki contradicts your silliness:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_meaning
From the same cite

Quote:
Contemporaneous dictionaries are of dubious value to an original intent inquiry, but of high value to an original meaning inquiry: we can establish what the words the Framers chose meant, but that is not necessarily conclusive as to what they intended to say (consider for example, the law of unintended consequences).
Saying that checks and balances are what the rules are, and that their intent with them doesn't matter is extremely consistent with that.
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:46 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Dumb.
Maybe.

But the most clever memes often contain an element of truthiness!
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:46 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
And this sort of ... stuff is why we have Trump as president.

I dare you to make a sillier comment. Because I'm an optimist, I still believe that you understand the distinction people made between the legitimacy of the Clinton emails as a "scandal" and the effect it had on the public.

Unless you believe all the people calling in about the War of the Worlds radio program indicates that aliens were actually attacking.
Yeah, that is why we have Trump as president, in large part because of Hillary's epic lies about the scandal.

Quote:
the distinction people made between the legitimacy of the Clinton emails as a "scandal" and the effect it had on the public.
Wanna try that again?
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