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Tags classified information , donald trump , national security issues , Trump controversies

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Old 16th May 2017, 05:45 AM   #321
uke2se
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Kind of funny seeing the apologists change from "fake news" to "no big deal" and/or "Obama!!!1!"
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:46 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
The Washington Post didn't really give any details about what Trump told the Russians beyond that it was about ISIS plotting to blow up airliners with laptops. And it wasn't a huge secret that there was some kind of plot about that since the US is planning on banning people from carrying laptops on planes traveling to the US.
Do you think it is a bad thing to let the Russians know that this is a credible threat based upon intel and maybe save lives and prevent another disaster like the Russian plane that blew up months ago ending over 220 lives?
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:46 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
If President Obama had done this he would be praised as a great humanitarian by many here and as an excellent diplomat who was helping improve Russian US relations by sharing information that could prevent another airline terrorist disaster. Another group would have been condemning him for releasing state secrets.

If in fact sharing this intel puts lives at risk probably he was wrong to share it. But in that case the ones who really put lives at risk are the people who leaked the information and the paper for printing it.
Oh look but Obama BS! Obama didn't do this, period.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:47 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Nonsense. Trump is giving away intel because he thinks it makes him seem cool to his Russian buddies. There is no diplomacy in Trump's mind, no strategy, only a need to feed his tiny ego.
Yep, but thanks to a combination of dishonesty, willful ignorance, and stupidity the GOP and their followers will continue to claim, and believe otherwise, and there will once again be no consequences for Trump's insane actions.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:47 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Luckily you are able to read his mind.
He has no mind, just an ego that needs feeding.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:48 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
But in that case the ones who really put lives at risk are the people who leaked the information and the paper for printing it.
The WaPo was very careful not to disclose the information - but sure, blame the messenger who is discreet and not the idiot who blabbed in the first place.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:48 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Relax, Washington doesn't move this fast. In all likelihood impeachment will have to wait until after the mid-term election. Trump is already a substantial drag on GOP numbers, so it can be expected DNC will take the House and reduce GOP majority in the Senate. If the Democrats can make this election about Trump they could even have a shot at majority in both houses (though this is unlikely because so few GOP senators are up for reelection, most are DNC). At that point impeachment becomes a very real possibility.

Trump would have to do several more ever more bizarre missteps before GOP majority would impeach him. This isn't impossible, but it is unlikely - because worse missteps than what he's already done are difficult, not because I trust him so.

McHrozni
It does take a while. However, Nixon started his second term with a 65 percent favorable rating and Watergate was barely a blip on the radar screen. He resigned 19 months later. 3 months before the midterms.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:49 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
He also would be responsible for giving the information but putting it in the open is more dangerous and in my opinion more irresponsible.
I'm not sure how you are reconciling this.
"he is also probably responsible, but the real people putting lives at risk is the papers/leakers"

The way I understand it, and alluded to by Tony, is that Trump has passed on information that the Russians could use to identify where his intelligence on the matter is coming from. The papers have been requested by the US intelligence community not to share that same detail, and as far as I am aware, they have acceded to that request. The only person who had leaked that to the Russians was Trump, ergo the real people putting those sources at risk is only Trump.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:51 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Do you think it is a bad thing to let the Russians know that this is a credible threat based upon intel and maybe save lives and prevent another disaster like the Russian plane that blew up months ago ending over 220 lives?
I'm sure the Russians already knew that the US had received some kind of intel about this given that we are planning on banning laptops from flights into the US. No reason for Trump to give details about it including which city the threat originated from. This isn't even something that was given to actual allies.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:52 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Oh look but Obama BS! Obama didn't do this, period.
I didn't claim anything about President Obama. I just suspect the same group that is condemning President Trump would have said President Obama was doing a good thing if it had been him.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:53 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
I'm not sure how you are reconciling this.
"he is also probably responsible, but the real people putting lives at risk is the papers/leakers"

The way I understand it, and alluded to by Tony, is that Trump has passed on information that the Russians could use to identify where his intelligence on the matter is coming from. The papers have been requested by the US intelligence community not to share that same detail, and as far as I am aware, they have acceded to that request. The only person who had leaked that to the Russians was Trump, ergo the real people putting those sources at risk is only Trump.
It is okay for Trump to leak to the Russians, but for people to leak that Trump leaked to the Russians is wrong.................
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:54 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Someone is tweeting a defense on his twitter. Grammar is too good to be the Orange Menace. It's going the Nixon route, "It's not illegal when the President does it."
NPR had an authority on this morning that said this is the case. The president can reveal any information he desires and it isn't breaking the law regarding confidentiality. So, it appears that Trump didn't break the law here.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:54 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
I'm not sure how you are reconciling this.
"he is also probably responsible, but the real people putting lives at risk is the papers/leakers"

The way I understand it, and alluded to by Tony, is that Trump has passed on information that the Russians could use to identify where his intelligence on the matter is coming from. The papers have been requested by the US intelligence community not to share that same detail, and as far as I am aware, they have acceded to that request. The only person who had leaked that to the Russians was Trump, ergo the real people putting those sources at risk is only Trump.
Not to mention the fact that no news outlet has put out the actual classified information. That was all Trump.

Eeyore1954 is trying to get us to accept that we should criticize news outlets for reporting that Trump disclosed classified information to a foreign power. This is how desperate conservatives are to defend Trump.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:55 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
I didn't claim anything about President Obama. I just suspect the same group that is condemning President Trump would have said President Obama was doing a good thing if it had been him.
Democrats aren't authoritarian followers the same way Republicans are.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:55 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
I didn't claim anything about President Obama. I just suspect the same group that is condemning President Trump would have said President Obama was doing a good thing if it had been him.
Based on what, considering this is completely unprecedented? Please be specific.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:56 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
NPR had an authority on this morning that said this is the case. The president can reveal any information he desires and it isn't breaking the law regarding confidentiality. So, it appears that Trump didn't break the law here.
As I said yesterday:

Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Saying, "It's legal," is a poor defense. It would be legal for him to issue pardons to militias murdering his "enemies" that doesn't make it right.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:56 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
I didn't claim anything about President Obama. I just suspect the same group that is condemning President Trump would have said President Obama was doing a good thing if it had been him.
Your belief is garbage. Fortunately, Obama did not do such idiotic and treasonous things as POTUS. Obama was criticized by many on the left for several other things he did.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:57 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by acementhead View Post
When the facts change he changes his mind. All rational people do. "What do you do sir?"

Thanks to all the left wing loons for the most entertaining thread for a while. Oh and the Deep-staters too.
I agree that each of those quotes can be defended as consistent -- except the NATO quote. Nothing changed in those five days, so either Trump was inconsistent or he was bloody ignorant on Mar. 21 and learned something prior to Mar. 25 that made him think NATO was obsolete.

So, a man of no fixed opinions or a man remarkably ignorant about NATO in our highest office. You must be proud.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:57 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
It is okay for Trump to leak to the Russians, but for people to leak that Trump leaked to the Russians is wrong.................
I don't think that is what Eeyore is saying. I think only Trump is saying that.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:58 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Based on what, considering this is completely unprecedented? Please be specific.
It is a strange Tu Quoque fallacy, "if your guy woulda dun it...." instead of "when your guy did it..."

How pathetic can they get?
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:59 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
I'm not sure how you are reconciling this.
"he is also probably responsible, but the real people putting lives at risk is the papers/leakers"

The way I understand it, and alluded to by Tony, is that Trump has passed on information that the Russians could use to identify where his intelligence on the matter is coming from. The papers have been requested by the US intelligence community not to share that same detail, and as far as I am aware, they have acceded to that request. The only person who had leaked that to the Russians was Trump, ergo the real people putting those sources at risk is only Trump.
To me it appears if it were not for the leak this information would not be out in the open. ISIS would probably not know about it.

Quote:
Russians could use to identify where his intelligence on the matter is coming from.
Why would Russia want to undermine a source that could be beneficial to them?
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:01 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Why would Russia want to undermine a source that could be beneficial to them?
Donald Trump? Well they don't want to undermine him. They claimed that the whole thing is fake news. Then Trump confirmed that it isn't.
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:03 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Donald Trump? Well they don't want to undermine him. They claimed that the whole thing is fake news. Then Trump confirmed that it isn't.
I assume you know I meant the intel that uncovered the threats.
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:03 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
It is unfortunate to watch CNN allowing that complete idiot Allan Dershowitz make the claim that this is the worst act of a sitting US president. Ever.
When Dershowitz expands, rationality contracts.
Dershowitz didn't say the highlighted.

What he said is, "the most serious charge ever made against a sitting president." Presidents may have done worse things without being accused of doing so while in office.

So, you're utterly certain Dershowitz is wrong. What counterexamples can you give? I'm limited in my historical knowledge, but Iran-Contra and Watergate certainly come to mind. The latter is purely domestic, and if Dershowitz was concerned primarily about our international relations, might not be a counterexample. Iran-Contra is pretty damned bad, as I understand it, but didn't cause our allies to wonder whether it is safe to share intelligence with us.

Dershowitz's claim is vague enough that I can't figger out if it's plausible or not. Why are you so certain that it's a stupid claim? What do you have in mind?
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:03 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
If President Obama had done this he would be praised as a great humanitarian by many here and as an excellent diplomat who was helping improve Russian US relations by sharing information that could prevent another airline terrorist disaster. Another group would have been condemning him for releasing state secrets.

If in fact sharing this intel puts lives at risk probably he was wrong to share it. But in that case the ones who really put lives at risk are the people who leaked the information and the paper for printing it.
How very weak.

No, if Obama revealed extra facts unnecessary to the "humanitarian" goal that put sources at risk, such as the city where the intel originated, there would be a stink. But this is a fantasy scenario. It's highly unlikely Obama would do such a thing because he's not a self-aggrandizing moron with diarrhea of the mouth.
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:06 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Based on what, considering this is completely unprecedented? Please be specific.
Based upon for some people Trump is always bad Obama is good and for others Obama is always bad Trump/republicans are always good. You can deny it if you want it is not based upon provable facts.
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:06 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
To me it appears if it were not for the leak this information would not be out in the open. ISIS would probably not know about it.
Why would Russia want to undermine a source that could be beneficial to them?
I am getting the feeling there is some misunderstanding here.

What is currently out in the open as a result of the leak/newspapers is not compromising to the source of the information.

Your question about why the Russians would undermine a potentially beneficial source is, imo, irrelevant. The fact is that they have information which could compromise that source, and what they do with that information is totally out of the control of both the US and whoever passed that information to the US.
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:06 AM   #348
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I have noticed that the usual Trump lap dogs in Congress have been deafeningly silent on this latest Trump cluster ****.

Mod WarningDo not avoid the autocensor.
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:08 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Based upon for some people Trump is always bad Obama is good and for others Obama is always bad Trump/republicans are always good. You can deny it if you want it is not based upon provable facts.
If Obama behaved the way Trump does, he never would have even became the president (or a senator).
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:09 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
If someone had written a spy series exactly like this, before Trump began his candidacy, everyone would've called it unrealistic.
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:10 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
If Obama behaved the way Trump does, he never would have even became the president (or a senator).
Imagine how the right wing screech machines would have reacted if Obama had the same relationship with his children that Trump (doesn't) have with Tiffany and Barron. It pays to be white.

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Old 16th May 2017, 06:11 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
I didn't claim anything about President Obama. I just suspect the same group that is condemning President Trump would have said President Obama was doing a good thing if it had been him.
And you'd be wrong on two counts -

Obama wouldn't get a pass
and
Obama wouldn't have done this to begin with.
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:11 AM   #353
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"I am imagining a scenario by which you guys would be hypocrites, so you are guilty of the hypothetical tu quoque fallacy."
"I wouldn't be in trouble if you hadn't told on me."

Did I do a decent job summarizing Eeyore's argument?
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:13 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
It's unpresidented.
And unprecedential.
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:14 AM   #355
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:14 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by Hevneren View Post
Please enlighten me: What happened to NATO between March 21 and March 27, so it went from "a good thing" to "obsolete" in six days?
And the Iraq war was a "tremendous success" one day but a "mess" four days later?
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I agree that each of those quotes can be defended as consistent -- except the NATO quote. Nothing changed in those five days, so either Trump was inconsistent or he was bloody ignorant on Mar. 21 and learned something prior to Mar. 25 that made him think NATO was obsolete.
There's more where that came from. Some can be defended. some not.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...ictions-213869
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:15 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
He has no mind, just an ego that needs feeding.
"Feed me, eeyore!"
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:16 AM   #358
uke2se
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
To me it appears if it were not for the leak this information would not be out in the open. ISIS would probably not know about it.


Why would Russia want to undermine a source that could be beneficial to them?
You Think it's worse that it's leaked that the President is providing classified info to the Russians, than that the President is providing classified info to the Russians? I mean, do you really expect anyone to buy this?
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:16 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Imagine how the right wing screech machines would have reacted if Obama had the same relationship with his children that Trump (doesn't) have with Tiffany and Barron. It pays to be white.
to wit:
I like kids. I mean, I wont do anything to take care of em. Ill supply funds, and shell take care of the kids. (The Howard Stern Show, April 2005)
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:16 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
To me it appears if it were not for the leak this information would not be out in the open. ISIS would probably not know about it.
They already knew that they were plotting to blow up planes with laptops and it has already been widely reported that the US is planning on banning laptops from planes travelling into the US. So they would have to be exceptionally stupid to not know that they US has intel about their plot.
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