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Old 17th January 2008, 05:18 AM   #281
BillyJoe
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
This isn't the tadpole study where there was a suspicion they might have used an aqueous solution for the controls and an alcohol-based homoeopathic preparation, was it?

The tested a lot of variables in this study:
Test and control groups were tested against each other
- using aqueous solutions.
- using both aqueous and alcohol solutions exposed to microwave ovens, with and without aluminium foil protection,
- using aqueous solutions exposed to mobile phones,
- using aqueous solutions exposed to airport x-rays.
- using aqueous solutions exposed to red light barcode scanners,.

I kid you not.

Last edited by BillyJoe; 17th January 2008 at 05:29 AM. Reason: correction
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Old 17th January 2008, 05:31 AM   #282
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The way I interpreted the graph was if there was an effect, it only had an significant impact between t=0 and t=1, since the two lines run virtually parallel from the first sample.
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Old 20th January 2008, 03:13 AM   #283
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bump!

OK, let's get this back on page 1 ready for Dana. The tadpoles are busted, but he has still not admitted that Rustum Roy's bomb turned out to be a damp squib. To keep our metaphors mixed (and, thanks to Milgrom we know that homeopaths love a well-mixed metaphor) I want to see Dana sit down here and eat a large plate of crow on the subject of defective UV absorption experiments. So, Dana/JamesGully, would you like that crow warm or cold?
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Old 20th January 2008, 03:17 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
So, Dana/JamesGully, would you like that crow warm or cold?
And served with water or alcohol?
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Old 20th January 2008, 03:44 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
And served with water or alcohol?

Shaken not stirred.
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Old 20th January 2008, 08:32 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by JamesGully View Post
I'm going away...until Monday...and may or may not have time to check-in, but the tadpole/frog research still beckons for good analysis.
I think I've found out where he's gone:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special...ons/Danaullman
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Old 20th January 2008, 09:30 AM   #287
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Mojo, you are priceless. I especially liked the conclusion in the Potassium Dichromate talk section where Ullman tried to add in the COPD study.

Quote:
It's a weak study, and a crappy piece of science. End of story. Jefffire (talk) 16:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
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Old 21st January 2008, 10:48 AM   #288
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Po...romate#_note-2

Too busy to talk to us, but not too busy to keep shoving that stupid CHEST paper in front of people.

"The COPD study was referenced by the New England Journal of Medicine[4] and JAMA[5] This should end our discussion on the notability of this study. It IS notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Danaullman (talk • contribs) 05:26, 19 January 2008 (UTC)"

Come on, Dana. Tell us why Roy produced such a bad paper.
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Old 21st January 2008, 11:06 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Po...romate#_note-2

Too busy to talk to us, but not too busy to keep shoving that stupid CHEST paper in front of people.

"The COPD study was referenced by the New England Journal of Medicine[4] and JAMA[5] This should end our discussion on the notability of this study. It IS notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Danaullman (talk • contribs) 05:26, 19 January 2008 (UTC)"
As the editors have pointed out, Dana even gets this wrong. I assume this is through stupidity, rather than an intent to mislead.

Articles in the NEJM and JAMA were cited by authors of the Chest article, and not the other way around.

It's very amusing seeing Dana try and pump this trivial study up as some earth shattering medical revelation.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 12:12 AM   #290
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Another day and still no JamesGully/Dana.

So we still don't know what he thinks about Rustum Roy's dud.

Maybe he can't use a keyboard at the moment. Nasty succussion-related wrist strain perhaps.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 01:44 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
Another day and still no JamesGully/Dana.

So we still don't know what he thinks about Rustum Roy's dud.

Maybe he can't use a keyboard at the moment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special...ons/Danaullman

Originally Posted by Danaullman
Stop the theorizing. Look at the results of research.
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Old 24th January 2008, 08:02 AM   #292
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Has Dana finally left the building? Have we broken him at last?

Should he return I expect to hear a unanimous chorus of "Tell about Rustum Roy's dud paper, Dana".
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Old 24th January 2008, 08:31 AM   #293
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He's still trying to get people to take him seriously here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Potassium_dichromate

Talking bollocks is hard to square with Wikipedia's sacred "NPOV".
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"i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath.
"Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park)
Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent.
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Old 24th January 2008, 08:42 AM   #294
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Didn't he say he'd be back on Monday? The crucial question is perhaps, which Monday? There's one every week!

Rolfe.
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Old 24th January 2008, 11:11 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
He's still trying to get people to take him seriously here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Potassium_dichromate

Talking bollocks is hard to square with Wikipedia's sacred "NPOV".

Recall what the study authors said about their results and homeopathy:
Quote:
The effect may be best explained by cybernetics, which means that the information of the homeopathic drug acts consensually on the regulator. Thereby, the body regains its original property to regulate physical parameters.
So the article might as well have been in german.
Pseudoscience of the highest order.
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Old 24th January 2008, 04:56 PM   #296
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Dagenham Heathway, anyone?

Rolfe.
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Old 24th January 2008, 05:16 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
He's still trying to get people to take him seriously here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Potassium_dichromate

Talking bollocks is hard to square with Wikipedia's sacred "NPOV".
The contributors of wiki are up to the task at the moment but I see signs of battle fatigue. Ullman seems to have moved the argument from whether homeopathy should mentioned in this article to the importance of the COPD study.

Ullman sees this as an opportunity of mentioning homeopathy in every wiki article connected to anything mentioned in vast illiterature of his subject.

We should be alert to give them support when required.
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Old 25th January 2008, 12:51 AM   #298
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I was thinking of linking to the discussions here to show them that DU (depleted something?) has tried and failed to make this trivial study stick elsewhere.

If he had a sense of proportion it wouldn't be so bad but he called it a "fine piece of research" here which is transparently over-egging the pudding.
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Old 25th January 2008, 12:52 AM   #299
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p.s. I was thinking of it, but I find Wikipedia's editing process exasperating even on the talk pages, so if someone else could do it I'd be grateful.
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Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent.
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Old 25th January 2008, 01:35 AM   #300
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If it becomes necessary, I'll mention the analysis of the COPD trial. I hesitate at the moment because it will give Ullman the excuse to start talking about NPOV and POV.
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Old 25th January 2008, 02:02 AM   #301
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It's a small study with questionable results which caused barely a ripple in the scientific literature (in fact we know it has been cited zero times in a scientific context. We all know it's failings. DU is trying on the argument from authority line - "it was in a prestigious journal, everyone!"
There are millions of better quality studies that have never had articles about them in Wiki. Why should this snivelling study make it when more significant articles haven't?
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Old 25th January 2008, 02:43 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Dagenham Heathway, anyone?

Rolfe.
Arrg, I'm in China, without me trusty line-plan so this'll be from memory:


I'll make a safe move...

Queensway

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Old 25th January 2008, 04:01 PM   #303
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One point that it might be worth making about the Chest article is that it can hardly be called "notable" if it has had no clinical impact. I don't know of any Intensive Care Unit in the world that uses homeopathic treatment to manage secretions in intubated COAD patients, and it is not mentioned in any evidence based ICU guidelines. Ive never heard it brought up in any discussion on the literature. Not exactly "notable".
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Old 25th January 2008, 04:29 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Dagenham Heathway, anyone?

Rolfe.
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Arrg, I'm in China, without me trusty line-plan so this'll be from memory:


I'll make a safe move...

Queensway

Hans
I think Dana and the rest of the Magic Water crowd got to Upminster some time ago.
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Old 25th January 2008, 04:46 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Criticalist View Post
One point that it might be worth making about the Chest article is that it can hardly be called "notable" if it has had no clinical impact. I don't know of any Intensive Care Unit in the world that uses homeopathic treatment to manage secretions in intubated COAD patients, and it is not mentioned in any evidence based ICU guidelines. Ive never heard it brought up in any discussion on the literature. Not exactly "notable".
A very good point, you might make the same argument on the Wikipedia talk section. I suspect that if any of the habituees of this forum (I'm a newcomer but include me in) make a comment, Ullman will start screaming POV.
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Old 26th January 2008, 12:50 AM   #306
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Oh, if you can't join them, beat them!

Silvertown

Edited To Add: Hah!!
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Old 26th January 2008, 04:16 AM   #307
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Criticalist, if that was your comment in wiki, well done and thank you.
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Old 26th January 2008, 06:01 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
Oh, if you can't join them, beat them!

Silvertown

Edited To Add: Hah!!
Oh? A little rash, wasn't it? Well, you asked for it, I'm afraid:

Oxford Circus


Hans
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Old 27th January 2008, 01:40 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Oh? A little rash, wasn't it? Well, you asked for it, I'm afraid:

Oxford Circus


Hans
Tottenham Court Road

Which, I think you will agree, is pretty sharp for this time on a Sunday morning.

Please, no one just play Kings Cross that variation is really DUll

Or am I just messing with your heads with a double bluff knip gambit?
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Old 28th January 2008, 03:31 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Arrg, I'm in China, without me trusty line-plan ....

Here you go, Hans.

Canons Park, BSM, I blindsided you there!

Rolfe.
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Old 28th January 2008, 03:52 PM   #311
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I would have thought Caledonian Rd is the obvious riposte to that underhand move.
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Old 28th January 2008, 04:05 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Deetee View Post
I would have thought Caledonian Rd is the obvious riposte to that underhand move.
Oh, I say...


Green Park
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Old 28th January 2008, 06:28 PM   #313
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Given the subject matter of this thread, surely all moves this side of Barking are invalid?
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Old 29th January 2008, 01:01 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Given the subject matter of this thread, surely all moves this side of Barking are invalid?
Or compulsory?

But anyway;

Beckton
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Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent.
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Old 29th January 2008, 03:37 AM   #315
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Oh, if only there was a tube station at Havering!

Barons Court will have to do for this move.

Rolfe.
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Old 29th January 2008, 06:07 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
Or compulsory?

Depends on which side of Barking you're on.
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Old 29th January 2008, 06:31 AM   #317
Rolfe
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The Havering side.

Rolfe.
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Old 29th January 2008, 01:38 PM   #318
BillyJoe
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Dana Ullman is now posting on the web for stories from homeopaths who have treated people using information from his books for an upcoming story in a woman's magazine.

I wonder if they would print a sceptical article in response.
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Old 29th January 2008, 10:30 PM   #319
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Originally Posted by BillyJoe View Post
Dana Ullman is now posting on the web for stories from homeopaths who have treated people using information from his books for an upcoming story in a woman's magazine.

I wonder if they would print a sceptical article in response.

Link please.
We might as well watch him in action even if it looks like his career here is over.
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Old 9th February 2008, 06:10 PM   #320
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Here's Dana on his Wikipedia User Page:
Quote:
I do listen to others and hear what they have to say, and I learn from everyone.

So he presumably knows that the papers he keeps spamming around the web have been shot down in flames. I wonder why he keeps citing them.
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