White House Survivor - Page 66

Firestone · 7th January 2021, 11:34 AM

Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao is resigning, per two officials. Cites yesterday’s events as reason in email to DOT colleagues, per draft. First Cabinet secretary to resign. Chao is married to Mitch McConnell.

“Our country experienced a traumatic and entirely avoidable event as supporters of the President stormed the Capitol building following a rally he addressed. As I'm sure is the case with many of you, it has deeply troubled me in a way that I simply cannot set aside.” —Chao says.

Resignation effective next Monday.

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/...138614789?s=19

dudalb · 7th January 2021, 11:53 AM

You could walk to shore on top of the Rats now abadonoing the sinking ship.

Trebuchet · 7th January 2021, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

You could walk to shore on top of the Rats now abadonoing the sinking ship.

And it doesn't make them any less than rats. They've spent four years enabling and now they want to save their reputations. Too late for that!

ponderingturtle · 7th January 2021, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Firestone

Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao is resigning, per two officials. Cites yesterday’s events as reason in email to DOT colleagues, per draft. First Cabinet secretary to resign. Chao is married to Mitch McConnell.

“Our country experienced a traumatic and entirely avoidable event as supporters of the President stormed the Capitol building following a rally he addressed. As I'm sure is the case with many of you, it has deeply troubled me in a way that I simply cannot set aside.” —Chao says.

Resignation effective next Monday.

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/...138614789?s=19

Handy way to duck out of a vote on to use the 25th amendment or not.

pgwenthold · 7th January 2021, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

You could walk to shore on top of the Rats now abadonoing the sinking ship.

Are we sure that they waited until now just to confirm that Biden won?

Which means they are losing their jobs anyway in two weeks.

How many have given 2 weeks notice?

And Chao is leaving so she can avoid having to sign off on the 25th amendment removal

If she had principles, she'd stay and lead the charge

timhau · 7th January 2021, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Handy way to duck out of a vote on to use the 25th amendment or not.

My first thought as well.

d4m10n · 7th January 2021, 01:56 PM

I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged.

pgwenthold · 7th January 2021, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged.

I was calling for it on Nov 6. I said the VP needs to act now because there is no telling how much damage could be done.

Got more than 500 likes. One of my most popular tweets ever.

I knew something ugly was coming. The options of what it would actually be was too great, but it was clear he was unhinged and had to be taken out of the loop.

Crossbow · 7th January 2021, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged.

Indeed, you are quite correct.

However, in politics, appearances often define reality and the current appearance is that is extremely obvious just what a stupid, disgusting, dangerous, POS Trump actually is.

dudalb · 7th January 2021, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged.

I think that he treid to stage a Coup yesterday has a lot to do with it.

Meadmaker · 7th January 2021, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Firestone

Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao is resigning, per two officials. Cites yesterday’s events as reason in email to DOT colleagues, per draft. First Cabinet secretary to resign. Chao is married to Mitch McConnell.

“Our country experienced a traumatic and entirely avoidable event as supporters of the President stormed the Capitol building following a rally he addressed. As I'm sure is the case with many of you, it has deeply troubled me in a way that I simply cannot set aside.” —Chao says.

Resignation effective next Monday.

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/...138614789?s=19

I wonder if she made it Monday instead of immediately so that she could still get in on some 25th action, just in case.

RecoveringYuppy · 7th January 2021, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged.

Section 4 doesn't say anything about why he is considered unable to discharge the duties of office. And it's clearly written in a way that anticipates the President is capable of objecting to being removed.

Firestone · 7th January 2021, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I wonder if she made it Monday instead of immediately so that she could still get in on some 25th action, just in case.

If so, a risky calculation.

If Trump denies he's incapacitated, the VP and the cabinet have 4 days to confirm his incapacitation. Then it goes to Congress, they can sit it out for 21 days. By then it's moot.

If Chao is the swing vote in the cabinet, she's still needed in the cabinet to respond to Trump's response. If Trump waits until Tuesday to respond, and there's no majority in the cabinet against him, he regains the full power of the presidency.

RecoveringYuppy · 7th January 2021, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Firestone

If so, a risky calculation.

If Trump denies he's incapacitated, the VP and the cabinet have 4 days to confirm his incapacitation. Then it goes to Congress, they can sit it out for 21 days. By then it's moot.

If Chao is the swing vote in the cabinet, she's still needed in the cabinet to respond to Trump's response. If Trump waits until Tuesday to respond, and there's no majority in the cabinet against him, he regains the full power of the presidency.

I'll note in this thread too, that the bar is set higher for removal under the 25th than it is for impeachment. Both houses have to have 2/3 majorities to confirm the removal.

Segnosaur · 7th January 2021, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged.

Maybe, but that might not necessarily matter.

After all, if a cabinet member gets involved with invoking the 25th amendment, I don't think they will be subject to any sort of criminal prosecution if it is decided either that "Trump was always insane and you just ignored it", or "Trump is sane, and you invoked the 25th, but he gave you reasons to believe he had gone nuts".

I think the goal is to get Trump out of office before he can cause more havoc... nobody will complain about "is he really nuts?" if they manage to achieve that goal.

Segnosaur · 7th January 2021, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

I'll note in this thread too, that the bar is set higher for removal under the 25th than it is for impeachment. Both houses have to have 2/3 majorities to confirm the removal.

Not sure if that will matter much.

In another thread, someone pointed out that while Trump can challenge the 25th, and he may have the support to block the confirmation, the process can be delayed. All they would need to do is slow things down enough so that any vote on his competency wouldn't occur until after Biden was inaugurated, at which point the 25th amendment becomes moot.

ETA: My mistake... it was actually a poster in this thread, a few posts above mine.

dirtywick · 7th January 2021, 04:26 PM

what changed is there may be enough political will to remove him from office

d4m10n · 7th January 2021, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I think that he treid to stage a Coup yesterday has a lot to do with it.

That's impeachable, to be sure, but it's unclear what is has to do w/ the wording of the 25th.

dirtywick · 7th January 2021, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

That's impeachable, to be sure, but it's unclear what is has to do w/ the wording of the 25th.

it’s really up to congress what qualifies as him being incapacitated

d4m10n · 7th January 2021, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by dirtywick

it’s really up to congress what qualifies as him being incapacitated

Nope.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

dirtywick · 7th January 2021, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Nope.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

I’m almost convinced, tell me more.

edit: the majority of the cabinet sends a letter to congress declaring him unfit, and they vote on it. there’s no set definition of what qualifies as unfit. So it’s up to them

RecoveringYuppy · 7th January 2021, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Not sure if that will matter much.

In another thread, someone pointed out that while Trump can challenge the 25th, and he may have the support to block the confirmation, the process can be delayed. All they would need to do is slow things down enough so that any vote on his competency wouldn't occur until after Biden was inaugurated, at which point the 25th amendment becomes moot.

ETA: My mistake... it was actually a poster in this thread, a few posts above mine.

A delay is only likely to happen if they want him out of office without a vote. That basically would require McConnell to go rogue. Not impossible. It was his wife that resigned today.

acbytesla · 7th January 2021, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by dirtywick

it’s really up to congress what qualifies as him being incapacitated

Also, the 25th amendment doesn't say "incapacitated". It says "incapable" of discharging the duties of POTUS.

The duties of POTUS include upholding the Constitution. So yes, it's up to his cabinet and to Congress to define it.

dirtywick · 7th January 2021, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Also, the 25th amendment doesn't say "incapacitated". It says "incapable" of discharging the duties of POTUS.

The duties of POTUS include upholding the Constitution. So yes, it's up to his cabinet and to Congress to define it.

that’s correct thank you

d4m10n · 7th January 2021, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

The duties of POTUS include upholding the Constitution.

What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of doing this, as opposed to merely disinclined?

RecoveringYuppy · 7th January 2021, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of doing this?

Is your mental capacity only one sentence deep? Read the sentence he typed directly ahead of the one you quoted.

d4m10n · 7th January 2021, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Is your mental capacity only one sentence deep? Read the sentence he typed directly ahead of the one you quoted.

What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of upholding the constitution, as opposed to merely disinclined to do so?

acbytesla · 7th January 2021, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of doing this, as opposed to merely disinclined?

I think he was on January 20th 2017. And the fact is he hasn't, EVER.

The proof is in the pudding.

RecoveringYuppy · 7th January 2021, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of upholding the constitution, as opposed to merely disinclined to do so?

This has been explained in baby talk multiple times now. And you're illiterate if you think I said anything like what you're implying.

jrhowell · 7th January 2021, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of upholding the constitution, as opposed to merely disinclined to do so?

I suppose Trump could contend that he send the protesters in intentionally as his choice. I doubt that would help his situation.

d4m10n · 7th January 2021, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I think he was on January 20th 2017. And the fact is he hasn't, EVER.

I'm holding to the idea that unable and unwilling are two distinct concepts. We have the 25th for the former, impeachment for the latter.

dudalb · 7th January 2021, 07:02 PM

Vos just quit.
One of the biggest rats left leaves the ship.

d4m10n · 7th January 2021, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by jrhowell

I suppose Trump could contend that he send the protesters in intentionally as his choice.

He gave the speech in public, so yeah.

dirtywick · 7th January 2021, 07:05 PM

someone unwilling to uphold the constitution is unable to, due to a lack of will

of course no explanation is needed. if the they invoke the 25th whatever reasoning the choose to apply is irrelevant if it’s enough to get the votes

acbytesla · 7th January 2021, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

I'm holding to the idea that unable and unwilling are two distinct concepts. We have the 25th for the former, impeachment for the latter.

That's your interpretation and I get it.

But I agree with Wick's post below. Unwilling is incapable.

Originally Posted by dirtywick

someone unwilling to uphold the constitution is unable to, due to a lack of will

of course no explanation is needed. if the they invoke the 25th whatever reasoning the choose to apply is irrelevant if it’s enough to get the votes

d4m10n · 7th January 2021, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

That's your interpretation and I get it.

Have any U.S. appeals courts ever gone for the broader interpretation? Any legal scholars of note?

bruto · 7th January 2021, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of upholding the constitution, as opposed to merely disinclined to do so?

I'm sure others will answer in various flavors, but we're not talking about one policy or another here, but the basic idea of upholding the constitution, and I would suggest that if a person's disinclination to uphold the constitution is so firmly held that he cannot do it, then he is incapable of doing it, even if at some level he is able to say he just doesn't want to.

Of course in this case, I would agree with many that that incapability has been present for a long time, and there's plenty of evidence that he doesn't actually even understand the Constitution, but there's no law as far as I know that says everyone must be on board at some particular time, or miss the boat forever.

d4m10n · 7th January 2021, 07:18 PM

The 25th Amendment was drafted to cover a specific set of physical or mental incapacities. It is folly to pretend it's intended to function as a backdoor impeachment/removal mechanism as well.

Trebuchet · 7th January 2021, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Vos just quit.
One of the biggest rats left leaves the ship.

You mean DeVos, sister of the boss of the murders trump pardoned?

Things I don't get: Why do any of these Trumpsters think quitting now is going to somehow save their reps?

Of course, it saves her from having to participate in the 25th amendment stuff.

Segnosaur · 7th January 2021, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Quote:

In another thread, someone pointed out that while Trump can challenge the 25th, and he may have the support to block the confirmation, the process can be delayed. All they would need to do is slow things down enough so that any vote on his competency wouldn't occur until after Biden was inaugurated, at which point the 25th amendment becomes moot.

A delay is only likely to happen if they want him out of office without a vote. That basically would require McConnell to go rogue. Not impossible. It was his wife that resigned today.

Plus, given the fact that Trump seemed to have torpedoed the Republican's chances in Georgia, and has attacked Moscow Mitch in the past couple of months, I don't think McConnell would feel much loyalty to Trump.

And that's assuming he's still senate Majority leader if the 25th amendment reaches congress. Its possible that the 2 new Democratic senators from georgia might be seated by then, and the Democrats will be in control.

7th January 2021, 11:34 AM	#2601
Firestone Proud Award Award recipient Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,997	Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao is resigning, per two officials. Cites yesterday’s events as reason in email to DOT colleagues, per draft. First Cabinet secretary to resign. Chao is married to Mitch McConnell. “Our country experienced a traumatic and entirely avoidable event as supporters of the President stormed the Capitol building following a rally he addressed. As I'm sure is the case with many of you, it has deeply troubled me in a way that I simply cannot set aside.” —Chao says. Resignation effective next Monday. https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/...138614789?s=19
	__________________ The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan Last edited by Firestone; 7th January 2021 at 11:43 AM.

7th January 2021, 11:53 AM	#2602
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	You could walk to shore on top of the Rats now abadonoing the sinking ship.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

7th January 2021, 12:25 PM	#2603
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,066	Originally Posted by dudalb You could walk to shore on top of the Rats now abadonoing the sinking ship. And it doesn't make them any less than rats. They've spent four years enabling and now they want to save their reputations. Too late for that!
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

7th January 2021, 12:28 PM	#2604
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,461	Originally Posted by Firestone Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao is resigning, per two officials. Cites yesterday’s events as reason in email to DOT colleagues, per draft. First Cabinet secretary to resign. Chao is married to Mitch McConnell. “Our country experienced a traumatic and entirely avoidable event as supporters of the President stormed the Capitol building following a rally he addressed. As I'm sure is the case with many of you, it has deeply troubled me in a way that I simply cannot set aside.” —Chao says. Resignation effective next Monday. https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/...138614789?s=19 Handy way to duck out of a vote on to use the 25th amendment or not.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

7th January 2021, 12:35 PM	#2605
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 20,133	Originally Posted by dudalb You could walk to shore on top of the Rats now abadonoing the sinking ship. Are we sure that they waited until now just to confirm that Biden won? Which means they are losing their jobs anyway in two weeks. How many have given 2 weeks notice? And Chao is leaving so she can avoid having to sign off on the 25th amendment removal If she had principles, she'd stay and lead the charge
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets

7th January 2021, 12:52 PM	#2606
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,474	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle Handy way to duck out of a vote on to use the 25th amendment or not. My first thought as well.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

7th January 2021, 01:56 PM	#2607
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,421	I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

7th January 2021, 02:01 PM	#2608
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 20,133	Originally Posted by d4m10n I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged. I was calling for it on Nov 6. I said the VP needs to act now because there is no telling how much damage could be done. Got more than 500 likes. One of my most popular tweets ever. I knew something ugly was coming. The options of what it would actually be was too great, but it was clear he was unhinged and had to be taken out of the loop.
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets

7th January 2021, 02:21 PM	#2609
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 13,313	Originally Posted by d4m10n I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged. Indeed, you are quite correct. However, in politics, appearances often define reality and the current appearance is that is extremely obvious just what a stupid, disgusting, dangerous, POS Trump actually is.
	__________________ I can barely believe that I made it through the Trump presidency. On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool." A man's best friend is his dogma.

7th January 2021, 03:22 PM	#2610
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	Originally Posted by d4m10n I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged. I think that he treid to stage a Coup yesterday has a lot to do with it.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

7th January 2021, 03:34 PM	#2611
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,280	Originally Posted by Firestone Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao is resigning, per two officials. Cites yesterday’s events as reason in email to DOT colleagues, per draft. First Cabinet secretary to resign. Chao is married to Mitch McConnell. “Our country experienced a traumatic and entirely avoidable event as supporters of the President stormed the Capitol building following a rally he addressed. As I'm sure is the case with many of you, it has deeply troubled me in a way that I simply cannot set aside.” —Chao says. Resignation effective next Monday. https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/...138614789?s=19 I wonder if she made it Monday instead of immediately so that she could still get in on some 25th action, just in case.
	__________________ Yes, yes. I know you're right, but would it hurt you to actually provide some information?

7th January 2021, 03:39 PM	#2612
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,778	Originally Posted by d4m10n I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged. Section 4 doesn't say anything about why he is considered unable to discharge the duties of office. And it's clearly written in a way that anticipates the President is capable of objecting to being removed.

7th January 2021, 03:45 PM	#2613
Firestone Proud Award Award recipient Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,997	Originally Posted by Meadmaker I wonder if she made it Monday instead of immediately so that she could still get in on some 25th action, just in case. If so, a risky calculation. If Trump denies he's incapacitated, the VP and the cabinet have 4 days to confirm his incapacitation. Then it goes to Congress, they can sit it out for 21 days. By then it's moot. If Chao is the swing vote in the cabinet, she's still needed in the cabinet to respond to Trump's response. If Trump waits until Tuesday to respond, and there's no majority in the cabinet against him, he regains the full power of the presidency.
	__________________ The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan Last edited by Firestone; 7th January 2021 at 03:47 PM.

7th January 2021, 03:48 PM	#2614
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,778	Originally Posted by Firestone If so, a risky calculation. If Trump denies he's incapacitated, the VP and the cabinet have 4 days to confirm his incapacitation. Then it goes to Congress, they can sit it out for 21 days. By then it's moot. If Chao is the swing vote in the cabinet, she's still needed in the cabinet to respond to Trump's response. If Trump waits until Tuesday to respond, and there's no majority in the cabinet against him, he regains the full power of the presidency. I'll note in this thread too, that the bar is set higher for removal under the 25th than it is for impeachment. Both houses have to have 2/3 majorities to confirm the removal.

7th January 2021, 04:23 PM	#2615
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,126	Originally Posted by d4m10n I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged. Maybe, but that might not necessarily matter. After all, if a cabinet member gets involved with invoking the 25th amendment, I don't think they will be subject to any sort of criminal prosecution if it is decided either that "Trump was always insane and you just ignored it", or "Trump is sane, and you invoked the 25th, but he gave you reasons to believe he had gone nuts". I think the goal is to get Trump out of office before he can cause more havoc... nobody will complain about "is he really nuts?" if they manage to achieve that goal.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

7th January 2021, 04:26 PM	#2616
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,126	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy I'll note in this thread too, that the bar is set higher for removal under the 25th than it is for impeachment. Both houses have to have 2/3 majorities to confirm the removal. Not sure if that will matter much. In another thread, someone pointed out that while Trump can challenge the 25th, and he may have the support to block the confirmation, the process can be delayed. All they would need to do is slow things down enough so that any vote on his competency wouldn't occur until after Biden was inaugurated, at which point the 25th amendment becomes moot. ETA: My mistake... it was actually a poster in this thread, a few posts above mine.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot Last edited by Segnosaur; 7th January 2021 at 04:28 PM.

7th January 2021, 04:26 PM	#2617
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,140	what changed is there may be enough political will to remove him from office
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,140

7th January 2021, 05:42 PM	#2618
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,421	Originally Posted by dudalb I think that he treid to stage a Coup yesterday has a lot to do with it. That's impeachable, to be sure, but it's unclear what is has to do w/ the wording of the 25th.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

7th January 2021, 06:03 PM	#2619
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,140	Originally Posted by d4m10n That's impeachable, to be sure, but it's unclear what is has to do w/ the wording of the 25th. it’s really up to congress what qualifies as him being incapacitated
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,140

7th January 2021, 06:19 PM	#2620
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,421	Originally Posted by dirtywick it’s really up to congress what qualifies as him being incapacitated Nope. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

7th January 2021, 06:30 PM	#2621
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,140	Originally Posted by d4m10n Nope. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk I’m almost convinced, tell me more. edit: the majority of the cabinet sends a letter to congress declaring him unfit, and they vote on it. there’s no set definition of what qualifies as unfit. So it’s up to them
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,140	Last edited by dirtywick; 7th January 2021 at 06:32 PM.

7th January 2021, 06:32 PM	#2622
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,778	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Not sure if that will matter much. In another thread, someone pointed out that while Trump can challenge the 25th, and he may have the support to block the confirmation, the process can be delayed. All they would need to do is slow things down enough so that any vote on his competency wouldn't occur until after Biden was inaugurated, at which point the 25th amendment becomes moot. ETA: My mistake... it was actually a poster in this thread, a few posts above mine. A delay is only likely to happen if they want him out of office without a vote. That basically would require McConnell to go rogue. Not impossible. It was his wife that resigned today.

7th January 2021, 06:37 PM	#2623
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,315	Originally Posted by dirtywick it’s really up to congress what qualifies as him being incapacitated Also, the 25th amendment doesn't say "incapacitated". It says "incapable" of discharging the duties of POTUS. The duties of POTUS include upholding the Constitution. So yes, it's up to his cabinet and to Congress to define it.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

7th January 2021, 06:41 PM	#2624
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,140	Originally Posted by acbytesla Also, the 25th amendment doesn't say "incapacitated". It says "incapable" of discharging the duties of POTUS. The duties of POTUS include upholding the Constitution. So yes, it's up to his cabinet and to Congress to define it. that’s correct thank you
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,140

7th January 2021, 06:42 PM	#2625
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,421	Originally Posted by acbytesla The duties of POTUS include upholding the Constitution. What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of doing this, as opposed to merely disinclined?
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin Last edited by d4m10n; 7th January 2021 at 06:46 PM.

7th January 2021, 06:46 PM	#2626
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,778	Originally Posted by d4m10n What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of doing this? Is your mental capacity only one sentence deep? Read the sentence he typed directly ahead of the one you quoted.

7th January 2021, 06:49 PM	#2627
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,421	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Is your mental capacity only one sentence deep? Read the sentence he typed directly ahead of the one you quoted. What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of upholding the constitution, as opposed to merely disinclined to do so?
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

7th January 2021, 06:50 PM	#2628
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,315	Originally Posted by d4m10n What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of doing this, as opposed to merely disinclined? I think he was on January 20th 2017. And the fact is he hasn't, EVER. The proof is in the pudding.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . Last edited by acbytesla; 7th January 2021 at 06:52 PM.

7th January 2021, 06:54 PM	#2629
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,778	Originally Posted by d4m10n What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of upholding the constitution, as opposed to merely disinclined to do so? This has been explained in baby talk multiple times now. And you're illiterate if you think I said anything like what you're implying.

7th January 2021, 06:58 PM	#2630
jrhowell Muse Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tampa Bay, Florida Posts: 714	Originally Posted by d4m10n What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of upholding the constitution, as opposed to merely disinclined to do so? I suppose Trump could contend that he send the protesters in intentionally as his choice. I doubt that would help his situation.

7th January 2021, 07:02 PM	#2631
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,421	Originally Posted by acbytesla I think he was on January 20th 2017. And the fact is he hasn't, EVER. I'm holding to the idea that unable and unwilling are two distinct concepts. We have the 25th for the former, impeachment for the latter.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

7th January 2021, 07:02 PM	#2632
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	Vos just quit. One of the biggest rats left leaves the ship.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

7th January 2021, 07:04 PM	#2633
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,421	Originally Posted by jrhowell I suppose Trump could contend that he send the protesters in intentionally as his choice. He gave the speech in public, so yeah.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

7th January 2021, 07:05 PM	#2634
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,140	someone unwilling to uphold the constitution is unable to, due to a lack of will of course no explanation is needed. if the they invoke the 25th whatever reasoning the choose to apply is irrelevant if it’s enough to get the votes
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,140

7th January 2021, 07:11 PM	#2635
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,315	Originally Posted by d4m10n I'm holding to the idea that unable and unwilling are two distinct concepts. We have the 25th for the former, impeachment for the latter. That's your interpretation and I get it. But I agree with Wick's post below. Unwilling is incapable. Originally Posted by dirtywick someone unwilling to uphold the constitution is unable to, due to a lack of will of course no explanation is needed. if the they invoke the 25th whatever reasoning the choose to apply is irrelevant if it’s enough to get the votes
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .