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#1321 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 22,800
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#1322 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,890
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#1323 | |||
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 86,927
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I never wear high heels but some people new to wearing them do walk very awkwardly. A quick review of 'how to' vids like this one ...
... demonstrates one steps heel-toe heel-toe. Going up stairs you walk toe-heel. But coming down stairs one needs to plant the whole foot and use the railing. That might explain Trump's difficulty with the West Point ramp. With lifts inside one's shoes (as opposed to platform shoes) maybe Trump couldn't put his weight on his heels without lifting up the toes of the shoes. The shoe just isn't shaped like high heels. But there is also the girdle he uses to hide his weight. |
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#1324 |
Neoclinus blanchardi
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,504
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I agree with Mary that Trump's successor, Joe Biden who has the full protection of the United States faces no problems. But then in the interview she said this:
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I can only wonder what Trump will do to his predecessor. Will Barack Obama vanish one night? Will we ever learn what happened to him? I can only assume she told the family about the details of what might happen. |
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Everything I learned about epidemiology forecasting came from a book titled, "Corona: The Brave Little Virus That Bent The Big Bad Curve." |
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#1325 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,008
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#1326 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,587
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... and Trump's more so than most:
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Dr. Brown talks about Trump's "narcissistic stance." |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#1327 |
![]() Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 59,484
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Trump's leaning is because his skull is full of liquid crazy that sloshes around, pulling him off balance. A simple trepanning would sort it out, and I bet plenty of people would be eager to help him with that.
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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#1328 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,890
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I just looked at a few pictures, and Trump is definitely wearing a high shoe lift. The angle at the top of the middle of the shoe is around 45 degrees. To get my size 9 1/2 feet to that angle, I need to lift the heels almost 2 inches, and I have a fairly thick mid-foot. For someone of Trump's size, it would be over 2 inches of lift. I suspect there is a considerable amount of dead space or padding in the toes of his shoes.
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#1329 |
![]() Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 59,484
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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#1330 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,147
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And here we have it, the natural progression from endorsement of unethical practice medicine to endorsement of outright quackery.
Speculate all you like about why he walks funny, but please don’t introduce pseudoscience as a citation on a skeptics forum. |
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#1331 |
![]() Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 59,484
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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#1332 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 86,927
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#1333 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,008
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Dr. Jack Brown is an ophthalmologist...and M.D. If Trump is 6'3" than so am I. And I'm not. He wears lifts. And he stands leaning forward because he wears lifts...because he's a narcissist.
You just can't let it go that you are not going to convince us that you are right about Dr. Lee and the others who have spoken out so you've come back for one more try. ![]() |
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#1334 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,890
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I'm not sure which post you're addressing, but just look through google images of Trump that show his feet next to others', and compare the shape of the shoes - especially in pictures that give you a good side view. Either Trump is wearing high lifts or he has hooves instead of feet.
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#1335 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,124
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Oh, so now Trump is a centaur that lost the back half of him? Keep that **** off a skeptics forum
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#1336 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,008
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#1337 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,890
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#1338 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,124
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Oh so he’s some kind of satyr then? Try using a little skepticism
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#1339 |
![]() Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 59,484
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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#1340 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,238
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I'm not sure what the pseudoscience would be - maybe the idea that body language is in infallible indicator of mental state. Mose of the article was simply discussing the mechanics of a fat man standing on two-inch heels. He did add that this enables Trump to lean into another person's personal space.
If body language theory has been substantively debunked, I would not be surprised. I think there's something to it, but perhaps not as much as some commercial "experts" would like us to believe. |
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#1341 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,147
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Yes, ophthalmologists are well known for their expertise in body language. Or maybe you are just appealing to his authority as an MD? Which would actually be an excellent illustration of my point. . . As long as ridiculous citations like dann’s are bandied about as if they carried some weight (Trump pun intended), then I shall never let it go. Like I said, you can speculate all you like about whether or not he wears lifts. My uncle walked like that but he was just fat and had a bad back. That’s my guess. But whatever, not the point at all. The point is that “body language analysis” has very little, if any, serious study behind it, is mostly bunk (I mean, sure, if someone has their arms crossed while talking to you, it might mean they are closed off to you) and I’m not surprised to see someone (dann in this case) cite it in a thread where unethical medical practice is endorsed. Next, someone will post Trump’s handwriting and cite a graphologist telling us how it indicates narcissism and deep seated father issues.... |
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#1342 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 86,927
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#1343 | |||
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,008
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Did you actually read the article? I rather suspect you didn't because none of it actually concerns the kind of "body language" analysis you're referring to and...ironically...I also consider mostly bunk. A lifted eyebrow means someone is lying? I don't think so. Glancing down means a lie? Maybe. Maybe not. Most of the article is evidence in support of Trump wearing lifts like photographs of Trump standing next to people whose height is documented. Things that aren't matters of interpretation. This is the only "body language" analysis in the article:
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I noticed the way you slipped "where unethical medical practice is endorsed" into your post. No one has endorsed unethical medical practice in this thread but nice try. You remind me of a member in another thread who accuses others who believe in the innocence of a person acquitted of murder of "knowingly defending a murderer" just because they don't agree with her that the accused is guilty. |
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#1344 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,008
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Exactly.
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#1345 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,147
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Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness' say psychiatry experts at Yale... Pt 3
I read the article. If you read the blurb at the end of the article you will see that the article and entire 4K+ blog series is about body language analysis. Dr Brown bills himself as a body language expert and charges thousands of dollars to lecture about it.
This is who you are leaning on to make the case that Trump wears lifts? C’mon, man!
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#1346 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,008
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Strawman. We're not talking about any other body language analysis are we? Stop dragging in things that are irrelevant to the topic. What's next? Trump's combover? C'mon, man!
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That's the opinion of the American Psychiatric Association ethical code. It is not of the American Psychological Association nor of the American Psychoanalytic Association. The American Psychiatric Assoc. is not the first and last word in the world of mental health ethics, ya know. So your statement that we are "endorsing unethical medical practice" is still false.
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#1347 | |||
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,587
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Trump's Jeremy Cricket is brutal!
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#1348 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,147
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Huh? The article is titled: " Body Language Analysis №4382: Why is Donald Trump Leaning Forward? — Nonverbal and Emotional Intelligence". There's no strawman here; that's exactly what it is: an "expert" in "body language analysis" is cited as an authority to tell us that Trump wears lifts and likes to invade people's personal spaces.
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There is simply not enough information there to make any kind of determination of their true heights.
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You can't judge height in a picture without knowing something about how the picture was taken. You missed the picture with Justin Trudeau. In that one, they look to be about on equal footing, given that they are clinching, standing toe to toe. Justin is listed in Google as being 6'2". Donald, in that picture looks about a half an inch to an inch shorter than Justin. You'll notice that Donald is leaning forward which is supposed to be evidence of him wearing lifts. So what, is Justin wearing 2" lifts as well?
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#1349 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,147
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Sure enough, a graphologist has indeed weighed in on Trump. Because of course they have. I must say, however: Wow . . . the graphologist and the shrinks seem to agree on so much! So much insight.
Anyway, here's some more of the "expert opinion," you guys love so much! ![]() https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...g-liar-916797/ |
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#1350 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 86,927
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![]() Leaning on to make the case? That's absurd. The article merely added to the discussion we've been having about lifts (and a girdle to hide his fat) explaining his odd leaning posture. And the discussion is also in the 2020 election thread. I believe the body language author mentioned leaning forward as an aggressive posture. I'm not sure I buy that. See, we can disagree about the article. It was mentioned somewhere he didn't want his daughter to look taller than him. Because why would a 6 foot tall man think he needs lifts in his shoes? That makes sense to me. See, we can ponder reasons for the lifts, no supporting articles needed. Imagine that. ![]() Doesn't change the well supported conclusion that the APA is wrong. Too bad more Republicans refused to look earlier on at how dangerous Trump might turn out to be. Too bad the APA feels some obligation to nebulous patients and the 'profession's image'. Apparently they feel no obligation toward the danger Trump posed as POTUS, a risk borne out now by well over 250,000 deaths. I wonder if history will look at that APA rule and say it was too bad the APA stuck to an ethic's rule based on one incident from more than half a century earlier. Why you are wedded to this rule is beyond me. ![]() |
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#1351 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,147
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#1352 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 86,927
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#1353 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,008
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#1354 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,147
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I think that associating incompetence, bad behavior and the idea of being dangerous with mental illness is a disservice to people with mental illness. I think a professional operating outside the bounds of their profession tends to create unrealistic views of what the profession is actually about. |
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#1355 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,008
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The fact that "the blurb at the end of the article you will see that the article and entire 4K+ blog series is about body language analysis. Dr Brown bills himself as a body language expert and charges thousands of dollars to lecture about it" had virtually nothing to do with what Brown actually talked about in the article. And what little it did was not the controversial body language we both agree is pseudoscience but commonly accepted everyday body language. That is why it was a strawman.
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https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trum...ry?id=62852596
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#1356 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,008
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That is not what Skeptic Ginger asked. She asked about mental health professionals speaking out about TRUMP.
That would be true if that were being done to all people with mental illness which it is not. But in Trump's case, his dangerousness, incompetence and bad behavior is directly linked to his pathology. |
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#1357 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,147
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#1358 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,587
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When it suits you, you tend to forget that we are talking about a very particular mental illness, the worst one on the scale of narcissism: psychopathy. You do a disservice to people with mental illness by pretending that psychopathy isn't any different from the others. But feel free to pretend that there are good people on both sides ... |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#1359 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,008
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#1360 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,147
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OK, first of all, psychoanalysis is a dying profession, having been pretty much debunked. Amer. Psychoanalytic Association has about 3500 members, which is small potatoes. And most of them are also members of one of the other APAs as well.
As for Pyschology, even if they don't have a specific rule, there is this:
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