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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

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Old 28th November 2020, 02:42 PM   #1321
jimbob
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm not seeing all those neurodegenerative explanations when lifts in his shoes are a simpler explanation. Why someone 6' tall thinks he needs lifts is pretty odd though.
Do shoe lifts cause that sort of stance? I guess they're not dissimilar to high heels, yet I don't see many women standing as though they're the front half of a centaur.
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Old 28th November 2020, 03:10 PM   #1322
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Do shoe lifts cause that sort of stance? I guess they're not dissimilar to high heels, yet I don't see many women standing as though they're the front half of a centaur.
Trump probably doesn't have the ankle and/or back flexibility necessary to stand up straight with the lifts.
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Old 28th November 2020, 09:08 PM   #1323
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Do shoe lifts cause that sort of stance? I guess they're not dissimilar to high heels, yet I don't see many women standing as though they're the front half of a centaur.
I never wear high heels but some people new to wearing them do walk very awkwardly. A quick review of 'how to' vids like this one ...

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... demonstrates one steps heel-toe heel-toe. Going up stairs you walk toe-heel. But coming down stairs one needs to plant the whole foot and use the railing. That might explain Trump's difficulty with the West Point ramp.

With lifts inside one's shoes (as opposed to platform shoes) maybe Trump couldn't put his weight on his heels without lifting up the toes of the shoes. The shoe just isn't shaped like high heels.

But there is also the girdle he uses to hide his weight.
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Old 28th November 2020, 09:59 PM   #1324
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post

I agree with Mary that Trump's successor, Joe Biden who has the full protection
of the United States faces no problems. But then in the interview she said this:

Quote:
“The thing that’s most driving him right now is the desperation to turn the
loss into a win,” Mary Trump said. "But his anxiety about losing the power
of the presidency to manage his legal affairs may prompt him into ever-more
extreme behavior as his looming exit draws closer, with potentially damaging
consequences for his predecessor and for the country," Mary Trump said.

I can only wonder what Trump will do to his predecessor.

Will Barack Obama vanish one night?
Will we ever learn what happened to him?

I can only assume she told the family about the details of what might happen.
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Old 28th November 2020, 11:43 PM   #1325
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Could be both in his case. Women certainly wear high heels and platforms without looking like they're falling over.
That's because our center of gravity if below the waist. Men's is above. Ever notice how we walk differently?
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Old 29th November 2020, 01:01 AM   #1326
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... and Trump's more so than most:
Quote:
Donald Trump is standing with this posture — primarily because he has specially crafted, ‘lift shoes’. His added 2.5–3.5 inch heel-height causes him to lean forward. This configuration is accentuated by his obesity.
Body Language Analysis №4382: Why is Donald Trump Leaning Forward? — Nonverbal and Emotional Intelligence (PHOTOS) (Dr. Jack Brown, April 29, 2019)

Dr. Brown talks about Trump's "narcissistic stance."
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Last edited by dann; 29th November 2020 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 29th November 2020, 07:55 AM   #1327
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Trump's leaning is because his skull is full of liquid crazy that sloshes around, pulling him off balance. A simple trepanning would sort it out, and I bet plenty of people would be eager to help him with that.
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Old 29th November 2020, 10:01 PM   #1328
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I just looked at a few pictures, and Trump is definitely wearing a high shoe lift. The angle at the top of the middle of the shoe is around 45 degrees. To get my size 9 1/2 feet to that angle, I need to lift the heels almost 2 inches, and I have a fairly thick mid-foot. For someone of Trump's size, it would be over 2 inches of lift. I suspect there is a considerable amount of dead space or padding in the toes of his shoes.
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Old 30th November 2020, 05:06 AM   #1329
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Originally Posted by Modified View Post
I suspect there is a considerable amount of dead space or padding in the toes of his shoes.
That's to balance the considerable amount of dead space or padding in the top of his skull.
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Old 30th November 2020, 06:56 PM   #1330
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And here we have it, the natural progression from endorsement of unethical practice medicine to endorsement of outright quackery.

Speculate all you like about why he walks funny, but please don’t introduce pseudoscience as a citation on a skeptics forum.
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Old 30th November 2020, 07:20 PM   #1331
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
And here we have it, the natural progression from endorsement of unethical practice medicine to endorsement of outright quackery.

Speculate all you like about why he walks funny, but please don’t introduce pseudoscience as a citation on a skeptics forum.
There's nothing pseudoscientific about trepanning. Which he needs like he needs another hole in his head.
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Old 30th November 2020, 07:26 PM   #1332
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
And here we have it, the natural progression from endorsement of unethical practice medicine to endorsement of outright quackery.

Speculate all you like about why he walks funny, but please don’t introduce pseudoscience as a citation on a skeptics forum.
WTF?

There was no pseudoscience in discussing the stiff leaning forward Trump exhibits and whether lifts in his shoes plus a girdle explain it.

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Old 30th November 2020, 07:29 PM   #1333
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
And here we have it, the natural progression from endorsement of unethical practice medicine to endorsement of outright quackery.

Speculate all you like about why he walks funny, but please don’t introduce pseudoscience as a citation on a skeptics forum.
Dr. Jack Brown is an ophthalmologist...and M.D. If Trump is 6'3" than so am I. And I'm not. He wears lifts. And he stands leaning forward because he wears lifts...because he's a narcissist.

You just can't let it go that you are not going to convince us that you are right about Dr. Lee and the others who have spoken out so you've come back for one more try.
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Old 30th November 2020, 07:55 PM   #1334
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
And here we have it, the natural progression from endorsement of unethical practice medicine to endorsement of outright quackery.

Speculate all you like about why he walks funny, but please don’t introduce pseudoscience as a citation on a skeptics forum.
I'm not sure which post you're addressing, but just look through google images of Trump that show his feet next to others', and compare the shape of the shoes - especially in pictures that give you a good side view. Either Trump is wearing high lifts or he has hooves instead of feet.
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Old 30th November 2020, 08:01 PM   #1335
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Oh, so now Trump is a centaur that lost the back half of him? Keep that **** off a skeptics forum
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Old 30th November 2020, 08:04 PM   #1336
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
... and Trump's more so than most:

Quote:
Quote:
Donald Trump is standing with this posture — primarily because he has specially crafted, ‘lift shoes’. His added 2.5–3.5 inch heel-height causes him to lean forward. This configuration is accentuated by his obesity.
Body Language Analysis №4382: Why is Donald Trump Leaning Forward? — Nonverbal and Emotional Intelligence (PHOTOS) (Dr. Jack Brown, April 29, 2019)
Dr. Brown talks about Trump's "narcissistic stance."
Originally Posted by Modified View Post
I'm not sure which post you're addressing, but just look through google images of Trump that show his feet next to others', and compare the shape of the shoes - especially in pictures that give you a good side view. Either Trump is wearing high lifts or he has hooves instead of feet.
He's addressing Dann's post.
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Old 30th November 2020, 08:13 PM   #1337
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Oh, so now Trump is a centaur that lost the back half of him? Keep that **** off a skeptics forum
When you say "Either X or Y", where Y is something that is obviously untrue, you mean "Definitely X". This is a very common way of expressing near certainty in the English language.

Just look at his feet dude.
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Old 30th November 2020, 08:18 PM   #1338
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Oh so he’s some kind of satyr then? Try using a little skepticism
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Old 30th November 2020, 08:20 PM   #1339
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Oh so he’s some kind of satyr then? Try using a little skepticism
If Trump were a satyr then he'd be actively working to further a Pandemic. Wait a minute...
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Old 30th November 2020, 08:29 PM   #1340
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Oh so he’s some kind of satyr then? Try using a little skepticism
I'm not sure what the pseudoscience would be - maybe the idea that body language is in infallible indicator of mental state. Mose of the article was simply discussing the mechanics of a fat man standing on two-inch heels. He did add that this enables Trump to lean into another person's personal space.

If body language theory has been substantively debunked, I would not be surprised. I think there's something to it, but perhaps not as much as some commercial "experts" would like us to believe.
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Old 30th November 2020, 10:02 PM   #1341
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Dr. Jack Brown is an ophthalmologist...and M.D. If Trump is 6'3" than so am I. And I'm not. He wears lifts. And he stands leaning forward because he wears lifts...because he's a narcissist.

You just can't let it go that you are not going to convince us that you are right about Dr. Lee and the others who have spoken out so you've come back for one more try.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5aa6a04387.jpg

Yes, ophthalmologists are well known for their expertise in body language. Or maybe you are just appealing to his authority as an MD? Which would actually be an excellent illustration of my point. . .

As long as ridiculous citations like dann’s are bandied about as if they carried some weight (Trump pun intended), then I shall never let it go.

Like I said, you can speculate all you like about whether or not he wears lifts. My uncle walked like that but he was just fat and had a bad back. That’s my guess. But whatever, not the point at all.

The point is that “body language analysis” has very little, if any, serious study behind it, is mostly bunk (I mean, sure, if someone has their arms crossed while talking to you, it might mean they are closed off to you) and I’m not surprised to see someone (dann in this case) cite it in a thread where unethical medical practice is endorsed.

Next, someone will post Trump’s handwriting and cite a graphologist telling us how it indicates narcissism and deep seated father issues....
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Old 30th November 2020, 10:04 PM   #1342
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Oh, so now Trump is a centaur that lost the back half of him? Keep that **** off a skeptics forum
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Old 1st December 2020, 01:05 AM   #1343
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Yes, ophthalmologists are well known for their expertise in body language. Or maybe you are just appealing to his authority as an MD? Which would actually be an excellent illustration of my point. . .

As long as ridiculous citations like dann’s are bandied about as if they carried some weight (Trump pun intended), then I shall never let it go.

Like I said, you can speculate all you like about whether or not he wears lifts. My uncle walked like that but he was just fat and had a bad back. That’s my guess. But whatever, not the point at all.

The point is that “body language analysis” has very little, if any, serious study behind it, is mostly bunk (I mean, sure, if someone has their arms crossed while talking to you, it might mean they are closed off to you) and I’m not surprised to see someone (dann in this case) cite it in a thread where unethical medical practice is endorsed.

Next, someone will post Trump’s handwriting and cite a graphologist telling us how it indicates narcissism and deep seated father issues....
Did you actually read the article? I rather suspect you didn't because none of it actually concerns the kind of "body language" analysis you're referring to and...ironically...I also consider mostly bunk. A lifted eyebrow means someone is lying? I don't think so. Glancing down means a lie? Maybe. Maybe not. Most of the article is evidence in support of Trump wearing lifts like photographs of Trump standing next to people whose height is documented. Things that aren't matters of interpretation. This is the only "body language" analysis in the article:

Quote:
Such forward-leaning posture has the secondary body language effect of encroaching into others’ personal space (intimate space) during greetings and other interactions. In addition to him being physically closer, we also feel emotionally uncomfortable whenever we think something/someone may fall over onto us.
Being uncomfortable when someone is in our personal space uninvited is pretty universal in western cultures and certainly not a controversial interpretation. He infamously pulled this with Hillary Clinton during the 2016 debates when he loomed over her. He did that for a reason and it wasn't to make her feel comfortable.

Quote:
This narcissistic stance amplifies any similar nonverbal behavior already present — e.g., pulling/yanking-style handshakes, the false intimacy of patting others’ shoulders, touching others’ backs/falsely guiding, feigned embracing, etc.
Remember the famous handshake with Macron complete with the back/shoulder patting? That was about power.
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Quote:
Thus, while Donald Trump uses shoe lifts because he feels self-conscious about his height, they have the secondary body language effect of physical intimidation.
Donald looks down on everyone both figuratively and literally.

I noticed the way you slipped "where unethical medical practice is endorsed" into your post. No one has endorsed unethical medical practice in this thread but nice try. You remind me of a member in another thread who accuses others who believe in the innocence of a person acquitted of murder of "knowingly defending a murderer" just because they don't agree with her that the accused is guilty.
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Old 1st December 2020, 01:17 AM   #1344
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I'm not sure what the pseudoscience would be - maybe the idea that body language is in infallible indicator of mental state. Mose of the article was simply discussing the mechanics of a fat man standing on two-inch heels. He did add that this enables Trump to lean into another person's personal space.
Exactly.
Quote:
If body language theory has been substantively debunked, I would not be surprised. I think there's something to it, but perhaps not as much as some commercial "experts" would like us to believe.
We all read body language everyday. We can tell what someone is feeling or thinking to a large part by the look on their face or the way they hold their body and most of these are pretty universal within societies. Autistic people have a hard time with this which is one of the reasons they have such a hard time reading/understanding social cues. However, I think it's gotten to the point where far too much has been made of interpreting 'micro expressions' and people have set themselves up as self-appointed 'experts' just to make money. When someone claims that a glance downward or a lifted eyebrow indicate deceit that's just going too far. We all have to many of our own varied individual facial quirks and expressions to start pigeon holing "micro expressions" like this. Sometimes a cigar is just a freaking cigar.
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Old 1st December 2020, 02:22 AM   #1345
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Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness' say psychiatry experts at Yale... Pt 3

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Did you actually read the article? I rather suspect you didn't because none of it actually concerns the kind of "body language" analysis you're referring to
I read the article. If you read the blurb at the end of the article you will see that the article and entire 4K+ blog series is about body language analysis. Dr Brown bills himself as a body language expert and charges thousands of dollars to lecture about it.

This is who you are leaning on to make the case that Trump wears lifts? C’mon, man!

Quote:
and...ironically...I also consider mostly bunk. A lifted eyebrow means someone is lying? I don't think so. Glancing down means a lie? Maybe. Maybe not. Most of the article is evidence in support of Trump wearing lifts like photographs of Trump standing next to people whose height is documented. Things that aren't matters of interpretation.
My lord....the Tiger Woods photos where they are wearing caps, the “knee wrinkle” analysis, this is solid interpretation to you?

Quote:
This is the only "body language" analysis in the article:



Being uncomfortable when someone is in our personal space uninvited is pretty universal in western cultures and certainly not a controversial interpretation. He infamously pulled this with Hillary Clinton during the 2016 debates when he loomed over her. He did that for a reason and it wasn't to make her feel comfortable.



Remember the famous handshake with Macron complete with the back/shoulder patting? That was about power.
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This kind of “body language analysis” doesn’t require expertise to interpret. We can all see that stuff. That’s a far cry from looking at photos of friggin’ knee wrinkles and declaring someone wears lifts.



Quote:
Donald looks down on everyone both figuratively and literally.

I noticed the way you slipped "where unethical medical practice is endorsed" into your post. No one has endorsed unethical medical practice in this thread but nice try.
The APA, who writes the ethical code, has determined that it is indeed unethical. Disagree all you want to but it’s still true.


Quote:
You remind me of a member in another thread who accuses others who believe in the innocence of a person acquitted of murder of "knowingly defending a murderer" just because they don't agree with her that the accused is guilty.
This is...ironic. A court of law acquitted the accused (or the APA deems remote diagnosis unethical). Some people disagree because doing so fits their biases. That doesn’t change the fact that the acquittal stands and won’t be overturned (or that remote diagnosis is still against the code of ethics and hasn’t been altered despite the bluster of the dissidents).
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Old 1st December 2020, 03:45 AM   #1346
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I read the article. If you read the blurb at the end of the article you will see that the article and entire 4K+ blog series is about body language analysis. Dr Brown bills himself as a body language expert and charges thousands of dollars to lecture about it.

This is who you are leaning on to make the case that Trump wears lifts? C’mon, man!
Strawman. We're not talking about any other body language analysis are we? Stop dragging in things that are irrelevant to the topic. What's next? Trump's combover? C'mon, man!
Quote:
My lord....the Tiger Woods photos where they are wearing caps, the “knee wrinkle” analysis, this is solid interpretation to you?
What's to "interpret"? We're looking at pictures. Tiger Woods is 6'1". They're both wearing the same style baseball caps. Does Trump look 2" taller to you? You fail to mention Trump standing next to Obama who is also 6'1". Does Trump look 2" taller to you? Here's a picture of Trump and his kids. Trump claims to be 6'3" (maybe with lifts). Eric is 6'4", Don Jr 6'1", Ivanka is 5'11" but she's wearing heels. Trump sure looks closer to Eric's height in this pic than to Obama's or Tiger's. Man, he grew 2 inches!




Quote:
This kind of “body language analysis” doesn’t require expertise to interpret. We can all see that stuff. That’s a far cry from looking at photos of friggin’ knee wrinkles and declaring someone wears lifts.
Exactly, because this body language is so damn obvious. But weren't you the one who called it "outright quackery" and bemoaned Dann bringing it into the thread and called it pseudoscience?

Quote:
The APA, who writes the one ethical code, has determined that it is indeed unethical. Disagree all you want to but it’s still true.
FTFY
That's the opinion of the American Psychiatric Association ethical code. It is not of the American Psychological Association nor of the American Psychoanalytic Association.
The American Psychiatric Assoc. is not the first and last word in the world of mental health ethics, ya know. So your statement that we are "endorsing unethical medical practice" is still false.


Quote:
This is...ironic. A court of law acquitted the accused (or the APA deems remote diagnosis unethical). Some people disagree because doing so fits their biases. That doesn’t change the fact that the acquittal stands and won’t be overturned (or that remote diagnosis is still against the code of ethics and hasn’t been altered despite the bluster of the dissidents).
Your analogy doesn't work at all. My point had nothing to do with whether or not the acquittal stood or not or whether people disagreed with it. It had to do with the inability of the person to accept that others disagreed with her view and the ridiculous lengths she went to to justify to herself why she was right and everyone else was wrong.
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Old 1st December 2020, 09:54 AM   #1347
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Trump's Jeremy Cricket is brutal!

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Old 1st December 2020, 12:34 PM   #1348
xjx388
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Strawman. We're not talking about any other body language analysis are we? Stop dragging in things that are irrelevant to the topic. What's next? Trump's combover? C'mon, man!
Huh? The article is titled: " Body Language Analysis №4382: Why is Donald Trump Leaning Forward? — Nonverbal and Emotional Intelligence". There's no strawman here; that's exactly what it is: an "expert" in "body language analysis" is cited as an authority to tell us that Trump wears lifts and likes to invade people's personal spaces.

Quote:
What's to "interpret"? We're looking at pictures. Tiger Woods is 6'1". They're both wearing the same style baseball caps.
What's to interpret? Lots. Number one, they are not the same style cap. Not even close. Next: How far off their scalps is the hat on each person? Trump's seems to be pressed down on his head while Tiger seems to have it riding a couple of inches higher. Another: Tiger is a bit in front of Donald which makes him seem slightly bigger in frame. How close is the camera, the closer, the larger the effect.

There is simply not enough information there to make any kind of determination of their true heights.
Quote:
Does Trump look 2" taller to you? You fail to mention Trump standing next to Obama who is also 6'1". Does Trump look 2" taller to you? Here's a picture of Trump and his kids. Trump claims to be 6'3" (maybe with lifts). Eric is 6'4", Don Jr 6'1", Ivanka is 5'11" but she's wearing heels. Trump sure looks closer to Eric's height in this pic than to Obama's or Tiger's. Man, he grew 2 inches!
Here, let me cut to the chase: this picture is proof that Amazonian women exist!



You can't judge height in a picture without knowing something about how the picture was taken.

You missed the picture with Justin Trudeau. In that one, they look to be about on equal footing, given that they are clinching, standing toe to toe. Justin is listed in Google as being 6'2". Donald, in that picture looks about a half an inch to an inch shorter than Justin. You'll notice that Donald is leaning forward which is supposed to be evidence of him wearing lifts. So what, is Justin wearing 2" lifts as well?

Quote:
Exactly, because this body language is so damn obvious. But weren't you the one who called it "outright quackery" and bemoaned Dann bringing it into the thread and called it pseudoscience?
Yup. Body language analysis -as a field in which one is said to have expertise/knowledge at a level beyond the average person- is absolute quackery and pseudoscience and bunk. We all read body language, though. Crossed arms, yawning, coughs in the pews . . . these are obvious things that we all can observe based on our interactions and experiences with our fellow humans and our own behavior. Not an exact science, but good enough to help us navigate relations with others.

Quote:
FTFY
That's the opinion of the American Psychiatric Association ethical code. It is not of the American Psychological Association nor of the American Psychoanalytic Association.
The American Psychiatric Assoc. is not the first and last word in the world of mental health ethics, ya know.
Not going to rehash the whole thread again. I disagree with you on this, that should be clear enough.
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Old 1st December 2020, 12:57 PM   #1349
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Sure enough, a graphologist has indeed weighed in on Trump. Because of course they have. I must say, however: Wow . . . the graphologist and the shrinks seem to agree on so much! So much insight.

Anyway, here's some more of the "expert opinion," you guys love so much!

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...g-liar-916797/
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Old 1st December 2020, 01:05 PM   #1350
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I read the article. If you read the blurb at the end of the article you will see that the article and entire 4K+ blog series is about body language analysis. Dr Brown bills himself as a body language expert and charges thousands of dollars to lecture about it.

This is who you are leaning on to make the case that Trump wears lifts? C’mon, man!

My lord....the Tiger Woods photos where they are wearing caps, the “knee wrinkle” analysis, this is solid interpretation to you?

This kind of “body language analysis” doesn’t require expertise to interpret. We can all see that stuff. That’s a far cry from looking at photos of friggin’ knee wrinkles and declaring someone wears lifts.


Leaning on to make the case? That's absurd. The article merely added to the discussion we've been having about lifts (and a girdle to hide his fat) explaining his odd leaning posture. And the discussion is also in the 2020 election thread.

I believe the body language author mentioned leaning forward as an aggressive posture. I'm not sure I buy that.

See, we can disagree about the article.

It was mentioned somewhere he didn't want his daughter to look taller than him. Because why would a 6 foot tall man think he needs lifts in his shoes? That makes sense to me.

See, we can ponder reasons for the lifts, no supporting articles needed. Imagine that.



Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
... Some people disagree because doing so fits their biases. That doesn’t change the fact that the acquittal stands and won’t be overturned (or that remote diagnosis is still against the code of ethics and hasn’t been altered despite the bluster of the dissidents).


Doesn't change the well supported conclusion that the APA is wrong. Too bad more Republicans refused to look earlier on at how dangerous Trump might turn out to be. Too bad the APA feels some obligation to nebulous patients and the 'profession's image'. Apparently they feel no obligation toward the danger Trump posed as POTUS, a risk borne out now by well over 250,000 deaths.

I wonder if history will look at that APA rule and say it was too bad the APA stuck to an ethic's rule based on one incident from more than half a century earlier. Why you are wedded to this rule is beyond me.
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Old 1st December 2020, 01:12 PM   #1351
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Too bad the APA feels some obligation to nebulous patients
Damn those pesky, nebulous patients!
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Old 1st December 2020, 01:18 PM   #1352
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Damn those pesky, nebulous patients!
Were any of them named or even identified without releasing names?


Do you honestly think for one minute the professionals speaking out about Trump publicly is going to affect what people think of the professions the professional are in?
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Old 1st December 2020, 01:21 PM   #1353
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Trump's Jeremy Cricket is brutal!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Love it. I will be so happy to see the back of his fat arse.
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Old 1st December 2020, 02:25 PM   #1354
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Were any of them named or even identified without releasing names?


Do you honestly think for one minute the professionals speaking out about Trump publicly is going to affect what people think of the professions the professional are in?

I think that associating incompetence, bad behavior and the idea of being dangerous with mental illness is a disservice to people with mental illness.

I think a professional operating outside the bounds of their profession tends to create unrealistic views of what the profession is actually about.
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Old 1st December 2020, 02:25 PM   #1355
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Huh? The article is titled: " Body Language Analysis №4382: Why is Donald Trump Leaning Forward? — Nonverbal and Emotional Intelligence". There's no strawman here; that's exactly what it is: an "expert" in "body language analysis" is cited as an authority to tell us that Trump wears lifts and likes to invade people's personal spaces.
The fact that "the blurb at the end of the article you will see that the article and entire 4K+ blog series is about body language analysis. Dr Brown bills himself as a body language expert and charges thousands of dollars to lecture about it" had virtually nothing to do with what Brown actually talked about in the article. And what little it did was not the controversial body language we both agree is pseudoscience but commonly accepted everyday body language. That is why it was a strawman.
Quote:

What's to interpret? Lots. Number one, they are not the same style cap. Not even close. Next: How far off their scalps is the hat on each person? Trump's seems to be pressed down on his head while Tiger seems to have it riding a couple of inches higher. Another: Tiger is a bit in front of Donald which makes him seem slightly bigger in frame. How close is the camera, the closer, the larger the effect.
Wow. You're really jumping through the desperation hoops on this one. Their eyes, noses, and chins are at the same level. Tiger is standing right next to Trump, with only his shoulder front of him as you can see in the full picture here. Certainly not enough to distort their height.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trum...ry?id=62852596


Quote:
There is simply not enough information there to make any kind of determination of their true heights. Here, let me cut to the chase: this picture is proof that Amazonian women exist!

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=12691
I'm not even going to comment on this idiocy.

Quote:
You can't judge height in a picture without knowing something about how the picture was taken.
True, but in the case of the one of Trump and Tiger, we do as I provided it.

Quote:
You missed the picture with Justin Trudeau. In that one, they look to be about on equal footing, given that they are clinching, standing toe to toe. Justin is listed in Google as being 6'2". Donald, in that picture looks about a half an inch to an inch shorter than Justin. You'll notice that Donald is leaning forward which is supposed to be evidence of him wearing lifts. So what, is Justin wearing 2" lifts as well?
Take a look again. If Trump stood straight, he would be as tall, or taller than Trudeau at 6'2". But look at where the knee wrinkle is. Trump's is much lower than Trudeau's showing he is shorter than Trudeau. Trump is wearing lifts. Trudeau is not.




Quote:
Yup. Body language analysis -as a field in which one is said to have expertise/knowledge at a level beyond the average person- is absolute quackery and pseudoscience and bunk. We all read body language, though. Crossed arms, yawning, coughs in the pews . . . these are obvious things that we all can observe based on our interactions and experiences with our fellow humans and our own behavior. Not an exact science, but good enough to help us navigate relations with others.
On this we agree wholeheartedly.

Quote:
Not going to rehash the whole thread again. I disagree with you on this, that should be clear enough.
Yep...but you keep bringing it up. But when I presented two mental health organizations that do not include the Goldwater Rule in their ethics rules disproving your claim that we are "endorsing unethical medical practice", all of a sudden you don't want to rehash it again.
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Old 1st December 2020, 02:31 PM   #1356
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I think that associating incompetence, bad behavior and the idea of being dangerous with mental illness is a disservice to people with mental illness.


I think a professional operating outside the bounds of their profession tends to create unrealistic views of what the profession is actually about.
That is not what Skeptic Ginger asked. She asked about mental health professionals speaking out about TRUMP.

That would be true if that were being done to all people with mental illness which it is not. But in Trump's case, his dangerousness, incompetence and bad behavior is directly linked to his pathology.

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Old 1st December 2020, 02:39 PM   #1357
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That is not what Skeptic Ginger asked. She asked about mental health professionals speaking out about TRUMP.
It definitely alienates Trump supporters -perhaps the people in this country who need the most mental health help.
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Old 1st December 2020, 02:41 PM   #1358
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I think that associating incompetence, bad behavior and the idea of being dangerous with mental illness is a disservice to people with mental illness.

I think a professional operating outside the bounds of their profession tends to create unrealistic views of what the profession is actually about.

When it suits you, you tend to forget that we are talking about a very particular mental illness, the worst one on the scale of narcissism: psychopathy.

You do a disservice to people with mental illness by pretending that psychopathy isn't any different from the others.
But feel free to pretend that there are good people on both sides ...
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Old 1st December 2020, 02:49 PM   #1359
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
It definitely alienates Trump supporters -perhaps the people in this country who need the most mental health help.
So? Does that change the facts that Trump is a sick man? You are desperately flailing around to find excuses to support your opinion.
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Old 1st December 2020, 02:51 PM   #1360
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
<snip ultimately pointless arguments about picture analysis, another subject which I'm sure we could find an "expert" in!>

Yep...but you keep bringing it up. But when I presented two mental health organizations that do not include the Goldwater Rule in their ethics rules disproving your claim that we are "endorsing unethical medical practice", all of a sudden you don't want to rehash it again.
OK, first of all, psychoanalysis is a dying profession, having been pretty much debunked. Amer. Psychoanalytic Association has about 3500 members, which is small potatoes. And most of them are also members of one of the other APAs as well.

As for Pyschology, even if they don't have a specific rule, there is this:

Quote:
American Psychological Association President Susan H. McDaniel published a letter in The New York Times in which she offered her opinion and interpretation of the current Ethics Code:

Similar to the psychiatrists' Goldwater Rule, our code of ethics exhorts psychologists to "take precautions" that any statements they make to the media "are based on their professional knowledge, training or experience in accord with appropriate psychological literature and practice" and "do not indicate that a professional relationship has been established" with people in the public eye, including political candidates. When providing opinions of psychological characteristics, psychologists must conduct an examination "adequate to support statements or conclusions." In other words, our ethical code states that psychologists should not offer a diagnosis in the media of a living public figure they have not examined.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldwa...al_Association
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