[Split Thread] A second impeachment - Page 11

Delvo · 11th January 2021, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey

You...... do know that TheAtheist is Australian, right?

Better question: does JoeMorgue... not realize that The Atheist's desperate defense of right-wingers puts him/her not on the left but on the right, which is the same side as JoeMorgue's obsessive hatred of lefties?

acbytesla · 11th January 2021, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by EHocking

Absolutely zero turning up is unlikely, yes. But a tactical absence may be a possibility.

Repuglyans have show over the past 5 years that they are capable of believing all sorts of ******** to support the GOP.

It's possible. I think the fact that more and more evidence of everything that has happened is going to make it hard for Trump's political allies to continue to support him.

It may not matter to some Republicans in super redneck districts but it will matter very much to GOP members where they have smaller majorities. They will be forced to make a stand. Not showing up might be their best way to avoid doing that.

Captain_Swoop · 11th January 2021, 05:36 PM

Rep. Matt Gaetz tweeted

@RepMattGaetz
Impeachment is unnecessary, divisive, and it’s only being done because Democrats want to keep the focus on President Trump so they can hold together their fragile coalition.

turingtest · 11th January 2021, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Rep. Matt Gaetz tweeted

@RepMattGaetz
Impeachment is unnecessary, divisive, and it’s only being done because Democrats want to keep the focus on President Trump so they can hold together their fragile coalition.

Whereas Gaetz and his fellow travelers would love to take the focus off of Trump so they can pretend their own divisive tactics of the last four years never happened. No, sorry, you don't get to avoid chickens that have come to roost because you don't like the way they're ******** all over your place.

angrysoba · 11th January 2021, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Rep. Matt Gaetz tweeted

@RepMattGaetz
Impeachment is unnecessary, divisive, and it’s only being done because Democrats want to keep the focus on President Trump so they can hold together their fragile coalition.

Spot the contradiction.

No need to spot the self-serving desperation.

It should be noted that those who are saying "But why impeachment?" need to realize that that's what the instigators want you to think.

The Atheist · 11th January 2021, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

"Mr FDR, I know the Japanese just bombed Pearl Harbor,

Superb analogy!

What happened at the Capitol was exactly the same as Pearl Harbour.

dasmiller · 11th January 2021, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by EHocking

Trumpist are now claiming the Capitol lynch mob were AntiFa in disguise.

So . . . in that video where Trump said, "We love you. You're very special." . . . he was talking about AntiFa?

US Politics gets weirder every day.

angrysoba · 11th January 2021, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Superb analogy!

What happened at the Capitol was exactly the same as Pearl Harbour.

What happened at the Capitol had the potential to be worse than what happened at Pearl Harbor.

Donald Trump has the potential to be more dangerous than Imperial Japan.

EHocking · 11th January 2021, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by dasmiller

So . . . in that video where Trump said, "We love you. You're very special." . . . he was talking about AntiFa?

US Politics gets weirder every day.

”Trump” politics has always been. And his supporters.

I’ve noticed the same sort of thing from my (Australian) right-leaning neighbours. They will twist themselves into all sorts of knots and spout the most noxious of views and support just as noxious politicians in order to toe the party line.
It is literally heresy to nay-say the party line.

I will admit, it is not restricted to the right, but seems to be more religiously rabid. The left just come off whiny

.

wareyin · 11th January 2021, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Delvo

Better question: does JoeMorgue... not realize that The Atheist's desperate defense of right-wingers puts him/her not on the left but on the right, which is the same side as JoeMorgue's obsessive hatred of lefties?

They say politics is circular, that if you go too far left you end up on the right. Looking at a far leftist calling another far leftist a right winger, while simultaneously claiming moderate leftists hate lefties, that claim of circularity seems plausible at least.

Skeptic Ginger · 11th January 2021, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by dasmiller

So . . . in that video where Trump said, "We love you. You're very special." . . . he was talking about AntiFa?

US Politics gets weirder every day.

OTOH, he can't pardon them if he wants people to believe they were AntiFa.

Skeptic Ginger · 11th January 2021, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

What happened at the Capitol had the potential to be worse than what happened at Pearl Harbor.

Donald Trump has the potential to be more dangerous than Imperial Japan.

The call is coming from inside the house.

TragicMonkey · 11th January 2021, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by wareyin

They say politics is circular, that if you go too far left you end up on the right. Looking at a far leftist calling another far leftist a right winger, while simultaneously claiming moderate leftists hate lefties, that claim of circularity seems plausible at least.

While those of us who are superior pyramid people sneer down at the pathetically ignorant circulars. #TetrahedronicPolitics #WakeUpSheeple #JCPenneySale #FreeMasonryWithNewWorldOrder

dasmiller · 11th January 2021, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

OTOH, he can't pardon them if he wants people to believe they were AntiFa.

Now that I think about it, Trump will never say it was Antifa. He'll never say that his people wouldn't actually fight for him.

Norman Alexander · 11th January 2021, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by EHocking

”Trump” politics has always been. And his supporters.

I’ve noticed the same sort of thing from my (Australian) right-leaning neighbours. They will twist themselves into all sorts of knots and spout the most noxious of views and support just as noxious politicians in order to toe the party line.
It is literally heresy to nay-say the party line.

I will admit, it is not restricted to the right, but seems to be more religiously rabid. The left just come off ~~whiny~~ belligerent and bolshie

.

Yep, and I would class myself one of the "medium left" in Australia. Sometimes you can hear the faint strains of The Red Flag behind some of them when they speak. Just like you can see the involuntary genuflection to the English crown and brother Masons from the right.

dirtywick · 11th January 2021, 08:09 PM

I don’t get the opposition to this. he literally did one of the worst things an American could do. trying to overthrow a democracy that governs over 350M people.

who thinks a bunch of congressmen telling him he doesn’t get to be president ever again is too much of a punishment?

angrysoba · 11th January 2021, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by dirtywick

I don’t get the opposition to this. he literally did one of the worst things an American could do. trying to overthrow a democracy that governs over 350M people.

who thinks a bunch of congressmen telling him he doesn’t get to be president ever again is too much of a punishment?

Trump, his supporters, those implicated by their allegiance with him....

Well, that about covers it.

Regnad Kcin · 11th January 2021, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Lindsey Graham tweeted

@LindseyGrahamSC
1h
In light of President Trump’s Thursday statement pledging an orderly transfer power and calling for healing in our nation, a second impeachment will do far more harm than good.

I’m disappointed to hear the House is proceeding with a second impeachment given there are only nine days left in a Trump presidency.

It is past time for all of us to try to heal our country and move forward.
Impeachment would be a major step backward.

The airport lounge lizards spooked him.

EHocking · 11th January 2021, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Yep, and I would class myself one of the "medium left" in Australia.

According to my LNP neighbours I’m a Gucci Socialist. Apparently support Socialist ideals and owning a house are mutually exclusive. They were shocked and horrified that I would actually criticise an Annastasia policy. They tried to persuade me that Hanson had some good ideas and was actually quite an erudite and eloquent speaker one on one. I’ve forgotten what she’d been bought for at the time.

Quote:

Sometimes you can hear the faint strains of The Red Flag behind some of them when they speak.

Heh. I recall being accosted by a Victorian Socialist who tried to foist some manifest/book on me. As I went to leave without paying, he objected. I pointed out that that attitude to individual possessions wasn’t terribly socialist. Apparently it is.

Quote:

Just like you can see the involuntary genuflection to the English crown and brother Masons from the right.

It is just that sort of involuntary tic that will cause you to fall off when riding a goat.

Venom · 11th January 2021, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I've specifically stated that the idea is to take the high moral ground, but seeing as how there doesn't appear to be any in America - or anywhere else for that matter - c'est la vie.

Good luck with the impeachment - I have no doubt Senate Republicans will block it. And it will have achieved what, exactly?

Looks to me is all it will do is salve the egos of a bunch of people hell-bent on extracting retribution.

Yippee!

Yes you have a tendency of blithely ignoring the concerns of real Americans while seemingly caring so much about the country at the same time.

What will "taking the moral high ground" give us, exactly, in this political landscape? I don't see it as any better option than moving forward with impeachment. I think both options are on the table. The right-wing has held the country hostage in the sense that any equal pushback Democrats against Republicans looks three times worse, but the feckless Democrats have been looking the other way for some time now. And you are the one actually implying that ignoring this would be the politically expedient thing to do.

angrysoba · 11th January 2021, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Lindsey Graham tweeted

@LindseyGrahamSC
1h
In light of President Trump’s Thursday statement pledging an orderly transfer power and calling for healing in our nation, a second impeachment will do far more harm than good.

I’m disappointed to hear the House is proceeding with a second impeachment given there are only nine days left in a Trump presidency.

It is past time for all of us to try to heal our country and move forward.
Impeachment would be a major step backward.

In light of an impeachment that will massively implicate me and which will either see me humiliating myself once again or alienating my nutcase base, I have decided that the words of the greatest BS artist ever seen are sufficient for me to forget the whole last four years. Obviously I think everyone else should do exactly the same.

Cain · 11th January 2021, 09:40 PM

Now is a time for unity and healing, not impeachment. There was a time for partisan politics and ramming through a life-time Supreme Court pick, but now we need to come together and keep taxes low for rich people.

Lurch · 11th January 2021, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

He already is: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...ex_cid=rrpromo

His support has absolutely tanked since the riot.

The only thing the world hates worse than a sore loser is a sore winner, so go Democrats!

Not equivalent, because they didn't try a Dildonian Coup, but it's not like Democrats didn't have a very fat cry in 2016 and for years afterwards:

WaPo - The Election was Stolen

Hillary Clinton - We Still Don't Know What Happened (in 2016) and Would Have Argued About it but Lacked Mechanism

Many Democrats Think 2016 Was Rigged

Lot of very short memories about.

See above re: bad winners.

But the losers in '16 didn't mount an insurrection. In spite of getting a few million more votes. (Yeah, yeah, I know about the obsolete *****' EC.)

All this tripe about "Librul tears" pales in comparison to this current lot of Jack hole violent petulance.

Aridas · 11th January 2021, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by EHocking

Trumpist are now claiming the Capitol lynch mob were AntiFa in disguise.

They will force themselves to believe anything in order to maintain their Trump idolisation and the GOP are not much better.

Now? They've been doing it since the first hint of entirely predictable violence happened.

For example, though, a trumpist tweeted a picture of two people who were known to be outright Nazis doing bad things during the attack and claimed that they were Anti-Fa, as just the tip of the iceberg of such insanity.

Skeptic Ginger · 11th January 2021, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by dasmiller

Now that I think about it, Trump will never say it was Antifa. He'll never say that his people wouldn't actually fight for him.

That probably depends on who he is talking to and when.

He has already said all the violence and bad things were done by AntiFa and so have all the usual Fox suspects.

Skeptic Ginger · 11th January 2021, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cain

Now is a time for unity and healing, not impeachment. There was a time for partisan politics and ramming through a life-time Supreme Court pick, but now we need to come together and keep taxes low for rich people.

That was too easy for you, all you had to do was repeat what the Congressional wienies were saying and add what you knew they were thinking.

Hlafordlaes · 12th January 2021, 12:02 AM

I agree with impeachment, and with the House sending it to the Senate after the inauguration. A lengthy set of multiple investigations at state and federal level would also be welcome.

I disagree, however, that any amount of factual information can be used to sway Trump voters, who by many accounts are not reasoning on such a basis. In fact, recent studies tend to indicate that the appeal of a male chauvinist bully is quite high among many, male and female, and is the main criterion for support, to the exclusion of most others. The only way to move such a mass of intransigent ignorance is via self interest: red meat on the table, ready to eat.

Middle America has shown throughout the last few decades that it is only swayed by (1) cash on the barrel head and (2) a chance to spit on one's neighbor. Unfortunately, until Democrats can field the winning combo of a macho male with progressive policies that can be portrayed as "tough" and "best", the True White herd will remain gathered around potential victims, ready to gore, minds set on blood. A macho labor leader crying out against corporate theft of "decent Christian jobs" and "ruining American families" is about the only potential "righty-lefty" winning profile between Appalachia and the Rockies.

Winning DNC Message for the Trump sect/Confederates/Latter-Day Ring-Kissing Redcoats/Fake Christians:
"The US shipped its meat and potato jobs to slave encampments (Uighurs!) as GOP donors played with little girls on Epstein's boat to celebrate the shaftings (Photos!). Time to close down all imports from China and invest in NAFTA. Yes, NAFTA, since that way, no immigrants at the border, and America can be safe, strong, and properous."

Long-term? Spread green industry across the Midwest, encourage distance working, and seek to flip 5 or more states Blue by directly attempting to change demographics in small states. Meanwhile, don't actually close down all trade with China, but seek all measures intended to stop IP theft.

Aridas · 12th January 2021, 01:14 AM

Just to poke at AOC weighing in a bit on the reasoning for seeking to impeach...

Quote:

“Our main priority is to ensure the removal of Donald Trump as President of the United State,” Ocasio-Cortez told Stephanopoulos. “Every minute and every that he is in office represents a clear and present danger not just to the United States Congress but to the country. But in addition to removal, we’re also talking about completely barring the president—or rather, Donald Trump—from running for office ever again. And in addition to that, the potential ability to prevent pardoning himself from those charges that he was impeached for.”

If McConnell isn't going to allow a trial before Trump's term ends as is pretty well certain, that pretty well cuts off the removal part. Preventing Trump from issuing disruptive pardons is worthwhile in and of itself, though. Conviction and removal of the ability to run again is possible, but probably a longshot.

Dave Rogers · 12th January 2021, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by turingtest

"He said he was sorry, ya'll! Geez, what more do you want?"

Well, I'll tell you, Lindsey- in light of the fact that Trump, aided and abetted by the likes of you, spent the last four years sowing civic and cultural divisions in the country just so he could reap the political dividends, and has spent every day between Nov 3 and Jan 6 sulking about and impeaching the integrity of a fair election just because he lost it (and, again, aided and abetted, etc.), and then spent Jan 6 spouting inflammatory rhetoric that anyone with half a brain could foresee would have the results it did- no.

And it's worth pointing out that not only did he not say anything remotely related to an apology, he also still has not conceded that Biden won the election. All he has said is that there will be a transition to a new administration on January 20th and that he's committed to it being orderly; he hasn't said it will be the Biden administration, and he's already made it impossible for it to be orderly. And this is the lie at the heart of the "This is a time for healing" argument: Trump still hasn't finished doing harm. The only thing that's changed is that he's been deprived of some of the means of doing it.

Dave

The Great Zaganza · 12th January 2021, 02:32 AM

Democrats can't heal the divide and call for unity, because Trump and his Republicans have taken away all their legitimacy to do so:
you will never accept that I give you half of my money as reconciliation if you are convinced that I stole all that money from you.

Before Biden and the rest of the Democrats can work on making the US less partisan, Republicans have to admit to their voters that they lied about the Election being rigged and that fully support Biden's win as unquestionably legitimate.

acbytesla · 12th January 2021, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by dasmiller

So . . . in that video where Trump said, "We love you. You're very special." . . . he was talking about AntiFa?

US Politics gets weirder every day.

18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

This is also the title for article of impeachment that the House has prepared.

P.J. Denyer · 12th January 2021, 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Trump's net worth is estimated at $2.5 billion, 20 times higher than Pelosi. So clearly he is even more the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, right?

But that's OK because Trump is a businessman, not a woman.

I bet Trump spends a hell of a lot on shoes too.

Hmm, that doesn't sound right (even though it's probably true). I wonder why? Ah yes, that's right - only women get accused of 'spending a hell of a lot on shoes'.

So you used to call 'people like her' "champagne Socialists"? That is belittling her achievements. Her husband runs a real estate company which has made them quite wealthy, but she didn't get where she is today by privilege. She has worked very hard to get Democrats into a position to implement liberal polices, and championed many herself. But you probably wouldn't know about that because you can't get over the fact that she is a woman.

It's not hypocritical to be successful in business and yet want a system that helps those less fortunate than yourself. But Republicans are masters of projection. Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat because she has pushed through 'socialist' policies that threaten their elite lifestyle of making a fortune off the backs of others while never giving anything in return - and of course because she is a woman.

Don't forget that if a person with politics that could be described in any way as being the slightest bit left wing has money themselves it's "Champagne Socialism" but if they haven't it's the "Politics of Envy".

JoeMorgue · 12th January 2021, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

Democrats can't heal the divide and call for unity, because Trump and his Republicans have taken away all their legitimacy to do so:
you will never accept that I give you half of my money as reconciliation if you are convinced that I stole all that money from you.

Before Biden and the rest of the Democrats can work on making the US less partisan, Republicans have to admit to their voters that they lied about the Election being rigged and that fully support Biden's win as unquestionably legitimate.

That's what makes this all the worst kind of lie.

Let's just hit the "I believe button" and engage the Right in good faith, hypothetically for a moment just ignoring all the valid reasons not to do that.

What's the middle ground we're supposed to meet them at? Half the election was stolen by the deep state lizard people to fund their global pedophile ring?

Mader Levap · 12th January 2021, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by wareyin

They say politics is circular, that if you go too far left you end up on the right. Looking at a far leftist calling another far leftist a right winger, while simultaneously claiming moderate leftists hate lefties, that claim of circularity seems plausible at least.

Not circular, but I do indeed believe in horseshoe theory.

Originally Posted by EHocking

I recall being accosted by a Victorian Socialist who tried to foist some manifest/book on me. As I went to leave without paying, he objected. I pointed out that that attitude to individual possessions wasn’t terribly socialist. Apparently it is.

I have better one. Late teen rambling about evils of money and selling way, way overpriced t-shirts with Che Guevara. Let that sink in. I don't consider it case of hypocrisy, but more like terminal case of utter stupidity.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 12th January 2021, 07:48 AM

I can't find a primary source on this yet - just twitter's summary when you click on the fact that it's trending - but the latest updates I've seen are that the House will convene tomorrow at 9AM to consider the impeachment, that McConnell has said the earliest the Senate could reconvene for a trial is the 19th, and that Biden has asked congressional leaders if the transition and an impeachment can occur simultaneously.

trustbutverify · 12th January 2021, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Because he's yet another butt-hurt Progressive that's mad that getting rid of Trump didn't come with a socialist uprising and more concerned with poo-pooing the Democratic establishment for the sin of being centrist then with stopping Trump.

It's more sinister then that. Go read Greenwald's twitter feed for the last five months. He doesn't have the courage to state it plainly, but he considers Trump and his criminal gang allies. He likes them.

trustbutverify · 12th January 2021, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

If there isn't any sanction on Trump then it is legitimising his actions and it will become just another tactic.
Lose the election, invade the Capitol, there's no repercussions, it might work next time.

It will... and the GOP will cheer it wildly. This country is facing an existential threat.

Tero · 12th January 2021, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Rep. Matt Gaetz tweeted

@RepMattGaetz
Impeachment is unnecessary, divisive, and it’s only being done because Democrats want to keep the focus on President Trump so they can hold together their fragile coalition.

Fragile matt will not last long. Well, he has NRA support, however long that lasts. Trump is toast. Find a new pal, Matt.

His predecessor old fart republican served 16 years.

trustbutverify · 12th January 2021, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Tero

Fragile matt will not last long. Well, he has NRA support, however long that lasts. Trump is toast. Find a new pal, Matt.

His predecessor old fart republican served 16 years.

What makes you think Trump is toast? If he's still alive in 2024, what makes you think he couldn't win?

Tero · 12th January 2021, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

What makes you think Trump is toast? If he's still alive in 2024, what makes you think he couldn't win?

Trump relied on social media to get the nomination. He won't have that. He will not have personal cash to run. If he does run, it will require selling all he owns. He will look like a loser.

If he got a nomination, he still will be the underdog against Kamala. Only Kamala turning into Hillary would change that.

11th January 2021, 05:35 PM	#402
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,240	Originally Posted by EHocking Absolutely zero turning up is unlikely, yes. But a tactical absence may be a possibility. Repuglyans have show over the past 5 years that they are capable of believing all sorts of ******** to support the GOP. It's possible. I think the fact that more and more evidence of everything that has happened is going to make it hard for Trump's political allies to continue to support him. It may not matter to some Republicans in super redneck districts but it will matter very much to GOP members where they have smaller majorities. They will be forced to make a stand. Not showing up might be their best way to avoid doing that.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

11th January 2021, 05:46 PM	#404
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Embedded, reporting from Mississippi Posts: 4,676	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Rep. Matt Gaetz tweeted @RepMattGaetz Impeachment is unnecessary, divisive, and it’s only being done because Democrats want to keep the focus on President Trump so they can hold together their fragile coalition. Whereas Gaetz and his fellow travelers would love to take the focus off of Trump so they can pretend their own divisive tactics of the last four years never happened. No, sorry, you don't get to avoid chickens that have come to roost because you don't like the way they're ******** all over your place.
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

11th January 2021, 05:50 PM	#405
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,358	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Rep. Matt Gaetz tweeted @RepMattGaetz Impeachment is unnecessary, divisive, and it’s only being done because Democrats want to keep the focus on President Trump so they can hold together their fragile coalition. Spot the contradiction. No need to spot the self-serving desperation. It should be noted that those who are saying "But why impeachment?" need to realize that that's what the instigators want you to think.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

11th January 2021, 06:13 PM	#406
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,281	Originally Posted by angrysoba "Mr FDR, I know the Japanese just bombed Pearl Harbor, Superb analogy! What happened at the Capitol was exactly the same as Pearl Harbour.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

11th January 2021, 06:13 PM	#407
dasmiller Just the right amount of cowbell Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Well past Hither, looking for Yon Posts: 6,379	Originally Posted by EHocking Trumpist are now claiming the Capitol lynch mob were AntiFa in disguise. So . . . in that video where Trump said, "We love you. You're very special." . . . he was talking about AntiFa? US Politics gets weirder every day.
	__________________ "In times of war, we need warriors. But this isn't a war." - Phil Plaitt

11th January 2021, 05:33 PM	#401
Delvo Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Tonawanda, NY Posts: 9,291	Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey You...... do know that TheAtheist is Australian, right? Better question: does JoeMorgue... not realize that The Atheist's desperate defense of right-wingers puts him/her not on the left but on the right, which is the same side as JoeMorgue's obsessive hatred of lefties?

11th January 2021, 05:36 PM	#403
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,872	Rep. Matt Gaetz tweeted @RepMattGaetz Impeachment is unnecessary, divisive, and it’s only being done because Democrats want to keep the focus on President Trump so they can hold together their fragile coalition.

11th January 2021, 06:24 PM	#408
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,358	Originally Posted by The Atheist Superb analogy! What happened at the Capitol was exactly the same as Pearl Harbour. What happened at the Capitol had the potential to be worse than what happened at Pearl Harbor. Donald Trump has the potential to be more dangerous than Imperial Japan.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

11th January 2021, 07:36 PM	#409
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,531	Originally Posted by dasmiller So . . . in that video where Trump said, "We love you. You're very special." . . . he was talking about AntiFa? US Politics gets weirder every day. ”Trump” politics has always been. And his supporters. I’ve noticed the same sort of thing from my (Australian) right-leaning neighbours. They will twist themselves into all sorts of knots and spout the most noxious of views and support just as noxious politicians in order to toe the party line. It is literally heresy to nay-say the party line. I will admit, it is not restricted to the right, but seems to be more religiously rabid. The left just come off whiny .
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,531	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald

11th January 2021, 07:46 PM	#410
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,315	Originally Posted by Delvo Better question: does JoeMorgue... not realize that The Atheist's desperate defense of right-wingers puts him/her not on the left but on the right, which is the same side as JoeMorgue's obsessive hatred of lefties? They say politics is circular, that if you go too far left you end up on the right. Looking at a far leftist calling another far leftist a right winger, while simultaneously claiming moderate leftists hate lefties, that claim of circularity seems plausible at least.

11th January 2021, 07:57 PM	#411
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,877	Originally Posted by dasmiller So . . . in that video where Trump said, "We love you. You're very special." . . . he was talking about AntiFa? US Politics gets weirder every day. OTOH, he can't pardon them if he wants people to believe they were AntiFa.

11th January 2021, 07:58 PM	#412
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,877	Originally Posted by angrysoba What happened at the Capitol had the potential to be worse than what happened at Pearl Harbor. Donald Trump has the potential to be more dangerous than Imperial Japan. The call is coming from inside the house.

11th January 2021, 08:01 PM	#413
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,464	Originally Posted by wareyin They say politics is circular, that if you go too far left you end up on the right. Looking at a far leftist calling another far leftist a right winger, while simultaneously claiming moderate leftists hate lefties, that claim of circularity seems plausible at least. While those of us who are superior pyramid people sneer down at the pathetically ignorant circulars. #TetrahedronicPolitics #WakeUpSheeple #JCPenneySale #FreeMasonryWithNewWorldOrder
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

11th January 2021, 08:01 PM	#414
dasmiller Just the right amount of cowbell Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Well past Hither, looking for Yon Posts: 6,379	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger OTOH, he can't pardon them if he wants people to believe they were AntiFa. Now that I think about it, Trump will never say it was Antifa. He'll never say that his people wouldn't actually fight for him.
	__________________ "In times of war, we need warriors. But this isn't a war." - Phil Plaitt

11th January 2021, 08:06 PM	#415
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,773	Originally Posted by EHocking ”Trump” politics has always been. And his supporters. I’ve noticed the same sort of thing from my (Australian) right-leaning neighbours. They will twist themselves into all sorts of knots and spout the most noxious of views and support just as noxious politicians in order to toe the party line. It is literally heresy to nay-say the party line. I will admit, it is not restricted to the right, but seems to be more religiously rabid. The left just come off ~~whiny~~ belligerent and bolshie . Yep, and I would class myself one of the "medium left" in Australia. Sometimes you can hear the faint strains of The Red Flag behind some of them when they speak. Just like you can see the involuntary genuflection to the English crown and brother Masons from the right.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

11th January 2021, 08:09 PM	#416
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,121	I don’t get the opposition to this. he literally did one of the worst things an American could do. trying to overthrow a democracy that governs over 350M people. who thinks a bunch of congressmen telling him he doesn’t get to be president ever again is too much of a punishment?
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,121

11th January 2021, 08:10 PM	#417
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,358	Originally Posted by dirtywick I don’t get the opposition to this. he literally did one of the worst things an American could do. trying to overthrow a democracy that governs over 350M people. who thinks a bunch of congressmen telling him he doesn’t get to be president ever again is too much of a punishment? Trump, his supporters, those implicated by their allegiance with him.... Well, that about covers it.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

11th January 2021, 08:26 PM	#418
Regnad Kcin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New York Posts: 10,238	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Lindsey Graham tweeted @LindseyGrahamSC 1h In light of President Trump’s Thursday statement pledging an orderly transfer power and calling for healing in our nation, a second impeachment will do far more harm than good. I’m disappointed to hear the House is proceeding with a second impeachment given there are only nine days left in a Trump presidency. It is past time for all of us to try to heal our country and move forward. Impeachment would be a major step backward. The airport lounge lizards spooked him.
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

11th January 2021, 08:27 PM	#419
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,531	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Yep, and I would class myself one of the "medium left" in Australia. According to my LNP neighbours I’m a Gucci Socialist. Apparently support Socialist ideals and owning a house are mutually exclusive. They were shocked and horrified that I would actually criticise an Annastasia policy. They tried to persuade me that Hanson had some good ideas and was actually quite an erudite and eloquent speaker one on one. I’ve forgotten what she’d been bought for at the time. Quote: Sometimes you can hear the faint strains of The Red Flag behind some of them when they speak. Heh. I recall being accosted by a Victorian Socialist who tried to foist some manifest/book on me. As I went to leave without paying, he objected. I pointed out that that attitude to individual possessions wasn’t terribly socialist. Apparently it is. Quote: Just like you can see the involuntary genuflection to the English crown and brother Masons from the right. It is just that sort of involuntary tic that will cause you to fall off when riding a goat.
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,531	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald Last edited by EHocking; 11th January 2021 at 08:28 PM.

11th January 2021, 08:38 PM	#420
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,891	Originally Posted by The Atheist I've specifically stated that the idea is to take the high moral ground, but seeing as how there doesn't appear to be any in America - or anywhere else for that matter - c'est la vie. Good luck with the impeachment - I have no doubt Senate Republicans will block it. And it will have achieved what, exactly? Looks to me is all it will do is salve the egos of a bunch of people hell-bent on extracting retribution. Yippee! Yes you have a tendency of blithely ignoring the concerns of real Americans while seemingly caring so much about the country at the same time. What will "taking the moral high ground" give us, exactly, in this political landscape? I don't see it as any better option than moving forward with impeachment. I think both options are on the table. The right-wing has held the country hostage in the sense that any equal pushback Democrats against Republicans looks three times worse, but the feckless Democrats have been looking the other way for some time now. And you are the one actually implying that ignoring this would be the politically expedient thing to do.

11th January 2021, 08:43 PM	#421
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,358	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Lindsey Graham tweeted @LindseyGrahamSC 1h In light of President Trump’s Thursday statement pledging an orderly transfer power and calling for healing in our nation, a second impeachment will do far more harm than good. I’m disappointed to hear the House is proceeding with a second impeachment given there are only nine days left in a Trump presidency. It is past time for all of us to try to heal our country and move forward. Impeachment would be a major step backward. In light of an impeachment that will massively implicate me and which will either see me humiliating myself once again or alienating my nutcase base, I have decided that the words of the greatest BS artist ever seen are sufficient for me to forget the whole last four years. Obviously I think everyone else should do exactly the same.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

11th January 2021, 09:40 PM	#422
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,275	Now is a time for unity and healing, not impeachment. There was a time for partisan politics and ramming through a life-time Supreme Court pick, but now we need to come together and keep taxes low for rich people.
	__________________ April 13th, 2018: Ranb: I can't think of anything useful you contributed to a thread in the last few years.

11th January 2021, 10:00 PM	#423
Lurch Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,648	Originally Posted by The Atheist He already is: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...ex_cid=rrpromo His support has absolutely tanked since the riot. The only thing the world hates worse than a sore loser is a sore winner, so go Democrats! Not equivalent, because they didn't try a Dildonian Coup, but it's not like Democrats didn't have a very fat cry in 2016 and for years afterwards: WaPo - The Election was Stolen Hillary Clinton - We Still Don't Know What Happened (in 2016) and Would Have Argued About it but Lacked Mechanism Many Democrats Think 2016 Was Rigged Lot of very short memories about. See above re: bad winners. But the losers in '16 didn't mount an insurrection. In spite of getting a few million more votes. (Yeah, yeah, I know about the obsolete *****' EC.) All this tripe about "Librul tears" pales in comparison to this current lot of Jack hole violent petulance.

11th January 2021, 10:43 PM	#424
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,447	Originally Posted by EHocking Trumpist are now claiming the Capitol lynch mob were AntiFa in disguise. They will force themselves to believe anything in order to maintain their Trump idolisation and the GOP are not much better. Now? They've been doing it since the first hint of entirely predictable violence happened. For example, though, a trumpist tweeted a picture of two people who were known to be outright Nazis doing bad things during the attack and claimed that they were Anti-Fa, as just the tip of the iceberg of such insanity.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

11th January 2021, 11:46 PM	#425
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,877	Originally Posted by dasmiller Now that I think about it, Trump will never say it was Antifa. He'll never say that his people wouldn't actually fight for him. That probably depends on who he is talking to and when. He has already said all the violence and bad things were done by AntiFa and so have all the usual Fox suspects.

11th January 2021, 11:50 PM	#426
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,877	Originally Posted by Cain Now is a time for unity and healing, not impeachment. There was a time for partisan politics and ramming through a life-time Supreme Court pick, but now we need to come together and keep taxes low for rich people. That was too easy for you, all you had to do was repeat what the Congressional wienies were saying and add what you knew they were thinking.

12th January 2021, 12:02 AM	#427
Hlafordlaes Disorder of Kilopi Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: State of Flux Posts: 14,643	I agree with impeachment, and with the House sending it to the Senate after the inauguration. A lengthy set of multiple investigations at state and federal level would also be welcome. I disagree, however, that any amount of factual information can be used to sway Trump voters, who by many accounts are not reasoning on such a basis. In fact, recent studies tend to indicate that the appeal of a male chauvinist bully is quite high among many, male and female, and is the main criterion for support, to the exclusion of most others. The only way to move such a mass of intransigent ignorance is via self interest: red meat on the table, ready to eat. Middle America has shown throughout the last few decades that it is only swayed by (1) cash on the barrel head and (2) a chance to spit on one's neighbor. Unfortunately, until Democrats can field the winning combo of a macho male with progressive policies that can be portrayed as "tough" and "best", the True White herd will remain gathered around potential victims, ready to gore, minds set on blood. A macho labor leader crying out against corporate theft of "decent Christian jobs" and "ruining American families" is about the only potential "righty-lefty" winning profile between Appalachia and the Rockies. Winning DNC Message for the Trump sect/Confederates/Latter-Day Ring-Kissing Redcoats/Fake Christians: "The US shipped its meat and potato jobs to slave encampments (Uighurs!) as GOP donors played with little girls on Epstein's boat to celebrate the shaftings (Photos!). Time to close down all imports from China and invest in NAFTA. Yes, NAFTA, since that way, no immigrants at the border, and America can be safe, strong, and properous." Long-term? Spread green industry across the Midwest, encourage distance working, and seek to flip 5 or more states Blue by directly attempting to change demographics in small states. Meanwhile, don't actually close down all trade with China, but seek all measures intended to stop IP theft.
	__________________ Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion. His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp Last edited by Hlafordlaes; 12th January 2021 at 12:06 AM.

12th January 2021, 01:14 AM	#428
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,447	Just to poke at AOC weighing in a bit on the reasoning for seeking to impeach... Quote: “Our main priority is to ensure the removal of Donald Trump as President of the United State,” Ocasio-Cortez told Stephanopoulos. “Every minute and every that he is in office represents a clear and present danger not just to the United States Congress but to the country. But in addition to removal, we’re also talking about completely barring the president—or rather, Donald Trump—from running for office ever again. And in addition to that, the potential ability to prevent pardoning himself from those charges that he was impeached for.” If McConnell isn't going to allow a trial before Trump's term ends as is pretty well certain, that pretty well cuts off the removal part. Preventing Trump from issuing disruptive pardons is worthwhile in and of itself, though. Conviction and removal of the ability to run again is possible, but probably a longshot.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

12th January 2021, 02:22 AM	#429
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD Posts: 32,363	Originally Posted by turingtest "He said he was sorry, ya'll! Geez, what more do you want?" Well, I'll tell you, Lindsey- in light of the fact that Trump, aided and abetted by the likes of you, spent the last four years sowing civic and cultural divisions in the country just so he could reap the political dividends, and has spent every day between Nov 3 and Jan 6 sulking about and impeaching the integrity of a fair election just because he lost it (and, again, aided and abetted, etc.), and then spent Jan 6 spouting inflammatory rhetoric that anyone with half a brain could foresee would have the results it did- no. And it's worth pointing out that not only did he not say anything remotely related to an apology, he also still has not conceded that Biden won the election. All he has said is that there will be a transition to a new administration on January 20th and that he's committed to it being orderly; he hasn't said it will be the Biden administration, and he's already made it impossible for it to be orderly. And this is the lie at the heart of the "This is a time for healing" argument: Trump still hasn't finished doing harm. The only thing that's changed is that he's been deprived of some of the means of doing it. Dave
	__________________ There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021

12th January 2021, 02:32 AM	#430
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,653	Democrats can't heal the divide and call for unity, because Trump and his Republicans have taken away all their legitimacy to do so: you will never accept that I give you half of my money as reconciliation if you are convinced that I stole all that money from you. Before Biden and the rest of the Democrats can work on making the US less partisan, Republicans have to admit to their voters that they lied about the Election being rigged and that fully support Biden's win as unquestionably legitimate.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

12th January 2021, 03:04 AM	#431
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,240	Originally Posted by dasmiller So . . . in that video where Trump said, "We love you. You're very special." . . . he was talking about AntiFa? US Politics gets weirder every day. 18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. This is also the title for article of impeachment that the House has prepared.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

12th January 2021, 03:56 AM	#432
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,838	Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets Trump's net worth is estimated at $2.5 billion, 20 times higher than Pelosi. So clearly he is even more the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, right? But that's OK because Trump is a businessman, not a woman. I bet Trump spends a hell of a lot on shoes too. Hmm, that doesn't sound right (even though it's probably true). I wonder why? Ah yes, that's right - only women get accused of 'spending a hell of a lot on shoes'. So you used to call 'people like her' "champagne Socialists"? That is belittling her achievements. Her husband runs a real estate company which has made them quite wealthy, but she didn't get where she is today by privilege. She has worked very hard to get Democrats into a position to implement liberal polices, and championed many herself. But you probably wouldn't know about that because you can't get over the fact that she is a woman. It's not hypocritical to be successful in business and yet want a system that helps those less fortunate than yourself. But Republicans are masters of projection. Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat because she has pushed through 'socialist' policies that threaten their elite lifestyle of making a fortune off the backs of others while never giving anything in return - and of course because she is a woman. Don't forget that if a person with politics that could be described in any way as being the slightest bit left wing has money themselves it's "Champagne Socialism" but if they haven't it's the "Politics of Envy".
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,838	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

12th January 2021, 06:45 AM	#433
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,639	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza Democrats can't heal the divide and call for unity, because Trump and his Republicans have taken away all their legitimacy to do so: you will never accept that I give you half of my money as reconciliation if you are convinced that I stole all that money from you. Before Biden and the rest of the Democrats can work on making the US less partisan, Republicans have to admit to their voters that they lied about the Election being rigged and that fully support Biden's win as unquestionably legitimate. That's what makes this all the worst kind of lie. Let's just hit the "I believe button" and engage the Right in good faith, hypothetically for a moment just ignoring all the valid reasons not to do that. What's the middle ground we're supposed to meet them at? Half the election was stolen by the deep state lizard people to fund their global pedophile ring?
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

12th January 2021, 06:48 AM	#434
Mader Levap Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1,576	Originally Posted by wareyin They say politics is circular, that if you go too far left you end up on the right. Looking at a far leftist calling another far leftist a right winger, while simultaneously claiming moderate leftists hate lefties, that claim of circularity seems plausible at least. Not circular, but I do indeed believe in horseshoe theory. Originally Posted by EHocking I recall being accosted by a Victorian Socialist who tried to foist some manifest/book on me. As I went to leave without paying, he objected. I pointed out that that attitude to individual possessions wasn’t terribly socialist. Apparently it is. I have better one. Late teen rambling about evils of money and selling way, way overpriced t-shirts with Che Guevara. Let that sink in. I don't consider it case of hypocrisy, but more like terminal case of utter stupidity.
	__________________ Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.

12th January 2021, 07:48 AM	#435
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,247	I can't find a primary source on this yet - just twitter's summary when you click on the fact that it's trending - but the latest updates I've seen are that the House will convene tomorrow at 9AM to consider the impeachment, that McConnell has said the earliest the Senate could reconvene for a trial is the 19th, and that Biden has asked congressional leaders if the transition and an impeachment can occur simultaneously.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.