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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies , Trump impeachment

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Old 16th January 2021, 06:40 PM   #961
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Also in the speech before the riot he used the word “fight” 20 times. And prior to that he asked followers to join the “Trump Army” to fight the “liberal mob” and to wear a camo MAGA cap to identify themselves as members of that “Army” - for $35 of course, always the scammer.

I’m pretty sure the Impeachment Trial will attempt to present the totality of the pattern of incitement leading up to 1/6 for months - not just cherry pick a single admonition to “act peacefully”.
'Stop the Steal'. What did he expect his followers to do? Ask nicely for the election results to be overturned?
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Old 16th January 2021, 06:49 PM   #962
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
First-amendment expert Ken White discusses the first amendment implications of the President's speech, starting roughly around the 20 minute mark.
EDT
TL/DL Ken White thinks a legal case on incitement is uphill but not impossible, especially considering the president's behavior. My opinion is that when Mr. White speaks on the first amendments, the rest of us should listen intently and take careful notes.
Yep! Thanks to Squeeegeee Beckenheim I listened to that earlier and can definitely second the recommendation.
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Old 16th January 2021, 06:56 PM   #963
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
'Stop the Steal'. What did he expect his followers to do? Ask nicely for the election results to be overturned?
Any chance it’s misspelled and people are actually hoping to prevent another Zoolander movie?
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Old 16th January 2021, 07:15 PM   #964
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Well done for “daring” to criticize Islam. Let me pin the “Medal for Exceptional Daring in Online Keyboard Warrior skills” upon your avatar. I myself am also exceptionally daring which is why I also criticize Islam. I think most atheists do so there are a lot of medals to go round.

Now, Dershowitz, free speech.... I am not a lawyer but if Dershy is saying that Twitter is suppressing first amendment rights then frankly he shouldn’t be a lawyer either or rather you shouldn’t pay for his services.
Oooooh...ooooooooh......I also dare to criticize Islam. And other religions as an atheist. Can I have a medal, too?

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Old 16th January 2021, 07:25 PM   #965
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Oooooh...ooooooooh......I also dare to criticize Islam. And other religions as an atheist. Can I have a medal, too?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...39da11bdc9.jpg
Sure, but only if you promise you have been very very daring on ISF! Daring like metachristi who is so daring with his views.
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Old 17th January 2021, 04:27 AM   #966
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Trump apparently (allegedly?) has a plan for his Senate trial:

Quote:
President Donald Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani tells ABC News he's working as part of the president's defense team in his upcoming second impeachment trial -- and that he's prepared to argue that the president's claims of widespread voter fraud did not constitute incitement to violence because the widely-debunked claims are true.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/giuliani-w...ry?id=75302032
It's e5 D-chess, at least: prove that the fraud claims are true after the usurper Biden is in the White House. Pure genius.
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Old 17th January 2021, 04:45 AM   #967
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Originally Posted by No Other View Post
You have a habit of setting up your own straw man and then knock down that straw man with your own made up comments.

I suggest you avoid using terms like "straw man" until you learn what they actually mean.
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Old 17th January 2021, 04:49 AM   #968
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Originally Posted by metacristi View Post
As for Trump's being punished via being barred from holding office in the future that's especially for his overall attitude regarding democracy, especially after the fact that his legal attempts to change the result of the election were rejected by the courts.
Is there supposed to be an actual idea buried in this?

Originally Posted by metacristi View Post
The Congress can definitely do that after Biden takes office, be it entirely as a political decision, there is no need to resort to all sort of lies, half truths, 'incitation to insurrection' and tortuous reinterpretations of what the First Amendment protect (restraining free speech).
Your "First Amendment" drivel (and you might want to learn what the actual First amendment to the US Constitution says, not your imagined version of it ) is irrelevant to the fact that your Molester-in-Chief incited a mob of his idiotic supporters to insurrection.
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Old 17th January 2021, 04:50 AM   #969
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Originally Posted by metacristi View Post
And yet the truth is that even someone rational from the Moon would easily recognize the poor intellectual standards on this forum.
Indeed, but only from certain posters...
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Old 17th January 2021, 05:30 AM   #970
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J. Hogan Gidley tweets

@JHoganGidley

Statement On President Trump’s Impeachment Defense Team:

President Trump has not yet made a determination as to which lawyer or law firm will represent him for the disgraceful attack on our Constitution and democracy, known as the “impeachment hoax.” We will keep you informed.
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Old 17th January 2021, 06:02 AM   #971
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
J. Hogan Gidley tweets

@JHoganGidley

Statement On President Trump’s Impeachment Defense Team:

President Trump has not yet made a determination as to which lawyer or law firm will represent him for the disgraceful attack on our Constitution and democracy, known as the “impeachment hoax.” We will keep you informed.
should have maybe re-read that one lol
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Old 17th January 2021, 06:19 AM   #972
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
It’s like when he said, “Will no one rid me of this turbulent Vice President?", he was only asking a question!
nice one.
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Old 17th January 2021, 06:56 AM   #973
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
J. Hogan Gidley tweets

@JHoganGidley

Statement On President Trump’s Impeachment Defense Team:

President Trump has not yet found made a determination as to which lawyer or law firm that will represent him for the disgraceful attack on our Constitution and democracy, known as the “impeachment hoax.” We will keep you informed.
Fixed that for him
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Old 17th January 2021, 09:26 AM   #974
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Trump apparently (allegedly?) has a plan for his Senate trial:

Quote:
President Donald Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani tells ABC News he's working as part of the president's defense team in his upcoming second impeachment trial -- and that he's prepared to argue that the president's claims of widespread voter fraud did not constitute incitement to violence because the widely-debunked claims are true.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/giuliani-w...ry?id=75302032

It's e5 D-chess, at least: prove that the fraud claims are true after the usurper Biden is in the White House. Pure genius.
Ya gotta admit they are indefatigable.
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Old 17th January 2021, 10:05 AM   #975
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Trump apparently (allegedly?) has a plan for his Senate trial:

Quote:
he's prepared to argue that the president's claims of widespread voter fraud did not constitute incitement to violence because the widely-debunked claims are true.
It's e5 D-chess, at least: prove that the fraud claims are true after the usurper Biden is in the White House. Pure genius.
Awesome. The Donald will have the opportunity to present, via his lawyer, all of that evidence to the widest audience possible. The Senate doesn't have to get all wrapped up in procedural stuff, and the American people will get to see it in their news feeds, with lots of commentary.

I can't think of a better way to expose the fraud.


I hope you all see what I did there.
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Old 17th January 2021, 10:19 AM   #976
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I can't think of a better way to expose the fraud.
Dude, that fraud wouldn't be any more exposed if he were -

oh, no . . . .

must . . . gouge . . . out . . . mind's . . . eye . . .
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Old 17th January 2021, 10:33 AM   #977
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Context- that's the word you need to learn here. You're criticizing Congress for impeaching on a narrow basis that is not the basis they've actually impeached him on.
I've even seen lawyers making that same mistake, with the "oh the speech wasn't so bad" claim. Folks like Popehat and Legal Eagle.

They don't respond when I ask why they are restricting their analysis to only that speech.

"The election was stolen, we need to fight it, everyone is traitors and we need to do something about it, so let's march on the Capitol. Oh, and be peaceful."

Right. As I have pointed out, there is a reason they came prepared with weapons, bombs, zip tie handcuffs and riot gear. And it wasn't because they were planning a sit-in on the Mall.

What was that reason? Ask them...they'll tell you. "The President sent me."
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Old 17th January 2021, 10:40 AM   #978
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
First-amendment expert Ken White discusses the first amendment implications of the President's speech, starting roughly around the 20 minute mark.
EDT
TL/DL Ken White thinks a legal case on incitement is uphill but not impossible, especially considering the president's behavior. My opinion is that when Mr. White speaks on the first amendments, the rest of us should listen intently and take careful notes.
Why does Ken focus on the content of Trump's speech, and not actually on the totality of his actions and statements since Nov 3 (or even before)?
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Old 17th January 2021, 11:14 AM   #979
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Originally Posted by metacristi View Post
What Trump did is definitely not 'insurrection', his speech (widely produced as proof by some) cannot be used to claim that he intended to cause violence. The truth is rather that the massively 'progressive' infiltrated Democrats fear so much Trump that basically anything is useful to oust him. If Trump is cancelled using this 'progressive' patented method then anyone, no matter how rational, can be a victim in the future.
This is blatant bs.

If I were to array the unprecedented ways that Trump has been called out by his own party, including his own appointees, it would exceed maximum post length.

Why do people foist easily debunkable bs like this?
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Old 17th January 2021, 11:33 AM   #980
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I've even seen lawyers making that same mistake, with the "oh the speech wasn't so bad" claim. Folks like Popehat and Legal Eagle.

They don't respond when I ask why they are restricting their analysis to only that speech.

"The election was stolen, we need to fight it, everyone is traitors and we need to do something about it, so let's march on the Capitol. Oh, and be peaceful."

Right. As I have pointed out, there is a reason they came prepared with weapons, bombs, zip tie handcuffs and riot gear. And it wasn't because they were planning a sit-in on the Mall.

What was that reason? Ask them...they'll tell you. "The President sent me."
I've seen Trump's speech and I have read it. In my opinion, especially considering the context, it was an incitement to violence. The speech itself, despite it being a disaster has oratory, is actually fairly but not convincingly ambiguous. It contains a great many words and phrases designed to rile people up and make them angry and then it has what amount to token phrases and words about being peaceful. It is very much a wink, wink hint, hint sort of speech. What Trump was trying to do was preserve plausible deniability by mundane phrases and words about being "peaceful" while wink, wink, hint, hinting about violence.

The peaceful crap was mere pro forma to preserve plausible deniability which the audience quite properly disregarded has what Trump really wanted to happen. Trump and his acolytes in the media are using that to throw rioters under the bus and deny Trump responsibility.

Oh and Trump's behavior while the mob was storming the capital and the very long delay in getting help to save Congressmen and Senators etc., from assault and possible death is the clearest indication that what happened is exactly what he wanted to happen. There are also indications that Trump appointees and others deliberately weakened efforts to provide security before the attack. To me it looks very much like Trump was indeed trying to incite an attack.

Last edited by Pacal; 17th January 2021 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 17th January 2021, 11:42 AM   #981
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Why do people foist easily debunkable bs like this?
Because the know the time we take discussing is will waste time.

"Being wrong all the time about everything, to the point that correcting you enough would just get us back on topic would take too long" is an amazingly effective troll technique.

Like I've said for years as the trolls have moved more and more to meta-argument trolling, if someone says "2+2=5" you correct their math. If someone says "A potato is a fruit" you correct their definition. If someone says "2+2=a potato" they've successfully broken discourse.
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Old 17th January 2021, 11:46 AM   #982
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I've even seen lawyers making that same mistake, with the "oh the speech wasn't so bad" claim. Folks like Popehat and Legal Eagle.

They don't respond when I ask why they are restricting their analysis to only that speech.

"The election was stolen, we need to fight it, everyone is traitors and we need to do something about it, so let's march on the Capitol. Oh, and be peaceful."

Right. As I have pointed out, there is a reason they came prepared with weapons, bombs, zip tie handcuffs and riot gear. And it wasn't because they were planning a sit-in on the Mall.

What was that reason? Ask them...they'll tell you. "The President sent me."
I like to think that the encouragement Trump offered the nutjobs in Michigan, aka the Wolverine Watchmen, would be admissible.
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Old 17th January 2021, 11:57 AM   #983
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Lindsey Graham tweets

@LindseyGrahamSC
My letter to Democratic Leader Schumer.

The Senate should vote to dismiss the article of impeachment once it is received in the Senate. We will be delaying indefinitely, if not forever, the healing of this great Nation if we do otherwise.

(letter in link)

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/...36851259682817
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Old 17th January 2021, 12:04 PM   #984
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Lindsey Graham tweets

@LindseyGrahamSC
My letter to Democratic Leader Schumer.

The Senate should vote to dismiss the article of impeachment once it is received in the Senate. We will be delaying indefinitely, if not forever, the healing of this great Nation if we do otherwise.

(letter in link)

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/...36851259682817
We'll have to remember that if the good Mr Graham gets ghetto raped by a bunch of guys wearing dead raccoons, that he wouldn't want them prosecuted when caught. Healing, you see.
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Old 17th January 2021, 12:11 PM   #985
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Lindsey Graham tweets

@LindseyGrahamSC
My letter to Democratic Leader Schumer.

The Senate should vote to dismiss the article of impeachment once it is received in the Senate. We will be delaying indefinitely, if not forever, the healing of this great Nation if we do otherwise.

(letter in link)

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/...36851259682817



https://twitter.com/LorcaDamon/statu...43571992834049
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Old 17th January 2021, 12:14 PM   #986
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Lindsey Graham tweets

@LindseyGrahamSC
My letter to Democratic Leader Schumer.

The Senate should vote to dismiss the article of impeachment once it is received in the Senate. We will be delaying indefinitely, if not forever, the healing of this great Nation if we do otherwise.

(letter in link)

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/...36851259682817
What does healing even mean here? Placating the lunatic fringe who cheered on the attack on the capitol? Agreeing with all the trumpista morons who think the election was stolen that maybe they have a point?
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Old 17th January 2021, 12:16 PM   #987
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
That pretty much nails it, the Republicans are basically saying, 'why are you forcing me to hit you?'
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Old 17th January 2021, 12:54 PM   #988
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Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
I've seen Trump's speech and I have read it. In my opinion, especially considering the context, it was an incitement to violence. The speech itself, despite it being a disaster has oratory, is actually fairly but not convincingly ambiguous. It contains a great many words and phrases designed to rile people up and make them angry and then it has what amount to token phrases and words about being peaceful. It is very much a wink, wink hint, hint sort of speech. What Trump was trying to do was preserve plausible deniability by mundane phrases and words about being "peaceful" while wink, wink, hint, hinting about violence.

The peaceful crap was mere pro forma to preserve plausible deniability which the audience quite properly disregarded has what Trump really wanted to happen. Trump and his acolytes in the media are using that to throw rioters under the bus and deny Trump responsibility.

Oh and Trump's behavior while the mob was storming the capital and the very long delay in getting help to save Congressmen and Senators etc., from assault and possible death is the clearest indication that what happened is exactly what he wanted to happen. There are also indications that Trump appointees and others deliberately weakened efforts to provide security before the attack. To me it looks very much like Trump was indeed trying to incite an attack.
It's a classic movie mobster speech: Nice Capitol you got there. It would be a shame if a crowd of righteous patriots overran it to reverse imaginary grievances...
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Old 17th January 2021, 01:10 PM   #989
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"Being wrong all the time about everything, to the point that correcting you enough would just get us back on topic would take too long" is an amazingly effective troll technique.
"And if you don't correct it, it's validating the truth of the BS."
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Old 17th January 2021, 02:27 PM   #990
turingtest
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Lindsey Graham tweets

@LindseyGrahamSC
My letter to Democratic Leader Schumer.

The Senate should vote to dismiss the article of impeachment once it is received in the Senate. We will be delaying indefinitely, if not forever, the healing of this great Nation if we do otherwise.

(letter in link)

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/...36851259682817
That's beautiful. The guy who has said that the people who took part in the riot should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law doesn't think that the guy who is accused of inciting the riot should even be put on trial. I'm sure that it will fully heal the nation to see that there really are two types of justice.
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Old 17th January 2021, 02:40 PM   #991
DevilsAdvocate
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Lindsey Graham tweets

@LindseyGrahamSC
My letter to Democratic Leader Schumer.

The Senate should vote to dismiss the article of impeachment once it is received in the Senate. We will be delaying indefinitely, if not forever, the healing of this great Nation if we do otherwise.

(letter in link)

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/...36851259682817
Or...the Senate should immediately vote to convict and bar him from holding Federal office once it is received in the Senate so that justice is not delayed and healing can then begin...after he is prosecuted and convicted for Federal crimes, of course. Wouldn't that be nice?
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Old 17th January 2021, 02:44 PM   #992
dudalb
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Every time you think Lindsay Graham cannot go any lower in his butt kissing of Trump, he finds a way to surprise you.
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Old 17th January 2021, 03:03 PM   #993
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Lindsey Graham tweets

@LindseyGrahamSC
My letter to Democratic Leader Schumer.

The Senate should vote to dismiss the article of impeachment once it is received in the Senate. We will be delaying indefinitely, if not forever, the healing of this great Nation if we do otherwise.

(letter in link)

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/...36851259682817
That would be convenient. “Sure my guys committed a bit of a high crime and misdemeanor. Let’s forget all about it and move on. Let’s all be the bigger people in all this.”
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Old 17th January 2021, 03:08 PM   #994
HHellpop
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Lindsey Graham tweets

@LindseyGrahamSC
My letter to Democratic Leader Schumer.

The Senate should vote to dismiss the article of impeachment once it is received in the Senate. We will be delaying indefinitely, if not forever, the healing of this great Nation if we do otherwise.

(letter in link)

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/...36851259682817
And unbelievably, he appears to finally grow a small pair, but then uses them to call Biden "weak!"

"You talk about unifying the country, if you do not stand up against the impeachment of President Trump after he leaves office, you're an incredibly weak figure in American history," Graham said.
Sen. Graham urges Biden to 'stand down' on 'Scarlet Letter' Trump impeachment

Wow.... just ... wow. What was that you said about using your words against you, scumbag? I didn't realize you meant every word out of your mouth.
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Old 17th January 2021, 03:10 PM   #995
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not that i'd advocate violence of any kind, but lindsey graham needs a good punch to the gut. just one
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Old 17th January 2021, 03:12 PM   #996
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Well, how far are the Republicans willing to go to promote healing? Will they unanimously denounce fraud allegations and enter an agreement in the record that the allegations were completely baseless? Will Ted Cruz et al. stipulate that their calls for delay were an attempt to subvert democracy (and in some cases appeared designed to inflame the mob that rolled through Jan. 6?)

Honestly I don't know why Graham is even bothering. I guess so he can tell Trump he's done everything he can. But really, who the hell cares what Lindsey Graham says? What does he have to offer anyone?
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Old 17th January 2021, 03:15 PM   #997
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Every time you think Lindsay Graham cannot go any lower in his butt kissing of Trump, he finds a way to surprise you.
The Trump team have something on Graham, surely. And it must be awful for him to be such a pathetic mouthpiece. Does it involve small children? Hamsters and gaffer tape?
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Old 17th January 2021, 04:01 PM   #998
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Every time you think Lindsay Graham cannot go any lower in his butt kissing of Trump, he finds a way to surprise you.
I think he's gone as far down as he can and has begun tunneling.
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Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)
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Old 17th January 2021, 04:03 PM   #999
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I think he's gone as far down as he can and has begun tunneling.
Eww...
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Old 17th January 2021, 04:29 PM   #1000
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Every time you think Lindsay Graham cannot go any lower in his butt kissing of Trump, he finds a way to surprise you.
Lindsey Graham never surprises me anymore.
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