Unity and Justice

shemp · 20th January 2021, 04:53 PM

Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk. I'm not sure how Joe Biden thinks he's going to achieve unity in this country. We are more polarized as a people than any time since the Civil War, and there are many people and entities that have a vested interest in keeping us divided.

You want unity? You need justice first. Trump and a lot those who supported him need to be put in prison first. They need to be broken and economically destroyed, legally, through the courts, of course. There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business. There are millions of people who believe their lies, their conspiracy theories, the garbage that is spewed constantly by those who want to keep us divided. How do you reach them? Frankly, I have no idea.

One thing I know is this: I will not budge an inch for unity until there is justice. Not revenge, justice. Those who got us where we are have to pay for what they've done before I'll ever consider reaching out for unity.

BobTheCoward · 20th January 2021, 06:12 PM

How do you know what justice is?

Mader Levap · 20th January 2021, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

How do you know what justice is?

Oh no, no, no. Don't.

TJM · 20th January 2021, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

They need to be broken and economically destroyed, legally, through the courts, of course. There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business.

There's hope.

Orphia Nay · 20th January 2021, 06:55 PM

One way to achieve unity is to give people in need the things they need.

Angry MAGA trailer park rednecks might slide from the opposite end of the unity scale to a bit closer to unity.

Better health care, cheaper pharmaceuticals, higher minimum wage, for a start.

shemp · 20th January 2021, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

How do you know what justice is?

***RABBIT HOLE WARNING***

shemp · 20th January 2021, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

One way to achieve unity is to give people in need the things they need.

Angry MAGA trailer park rednecks might slide from the opposite end of the unity scale to a bit closer to unity.

Better health care, cheaper pharmaceuticals, higher minimum wage, for a start.

The claim that these people are poor rednecks is a stereotype. They come from all economic levels and all walks of life. Throwing money at people doesn't draw them closer to the political center.

The Great Zaganza · 20th January 2021, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

How do you know what justice is?

It's a gorgeous lady who is slightly into Sensory Deprivation.

angrysoba · 20th January 2021, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

One way to achieve unity is to give people in need the things they need.

Angry MAGA trailer park rednecks might slide from the opposite end of the unity scale to a bit closer to unity.

Better health care, cheaper pharmaceuticals, higher minimum wage, for a start.

This is like the argument that terrorists would start being nice if people like Osama bin Laden weren't so poor.

There is a major flaw in that assumption.

angrysoba · 20th January 2021, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

How do you know what justice is?

Do we know the meaning of the word "unity"? Or "And" or "How"....etc....

I think we should just go with the commonly understood meaning of the words. However, if you think that the commonly understood meanings of the words are incorrect, then please start a new thread about it in Religion and Philosophy under the title "What is Justice?"

Orphia Nay · 20th January 2021, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

The claim that these people are poor rednecks is a stereotype. They come from all economic levels and all walks of life. Throwing money at people doesn't draw them closer to the political center.

You assumed I meant all of them are rednecks. I didn't. I was giving an example for a couple of policies.

There were issues on Biden's running agenda that adressed his plans for all Americans.

ETA: https://joebiden.com/presidency-for-all-americans/

smartcooky · 20th January 2021, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

***RABBIT HOLE WARNING***

When the red, red robin comes bob, bob, bobbing along......

smartcooky · 20th January 2021, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Do we know the meaning of the word "unity"? Or "And" or "How"....etc....

I think we should just go with the commonly understood meaning of the words. However, if you think that the commonly understood meanings of the words are incorrect, then please start a new thread about it in Religion and Philosophy under the title "What is Justice?"

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

It's a gorgeous lady who is slightly into Sensory Deprivation.

Please, just don't give him oxygen!

BobTheCoward · 20th January 2021, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Do we know the meaning of the word "unity"? Or "And" or "How"....etc....

I think we should just go with the commonly understood meaning of the words. However, if you think that the commonly understood meanings of the words are incorrect, then please start a new thread about it in Religion and Philosophy under the title "What is Justice?"

I'm fine with the commonly held meaning. But the commonly held meaning is a little nebulous to what the OP is requesting.

The OP wants X to occur before Y. If we are doing it procedurally, I would like to get specific on what X is.

angrysoba · 20th January 2021, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I'm fine with the commonly held meaning. But the commonly held meaning is a little nebulous to what the OP is requesting.

The OP wants X to occur before Y. If we are doing it procedurally, I would like to get specific on what X is.

I made a thread...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=349105

BobTheCoward · 20th January 2021, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

I made a thread...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=349105

I don't care about the concept generally. I'm here at the service of the OP to help brainstorm actionable goals to assess when justice is achieved and shemp can proceed to unity.

I don't care if shemp says it is everyone gets a puppy. I just need more data from shemp to help shemp.

trustbutverify · 20th January 2021, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk. I'm not sure how Joe Biden thinks he's going to achieve unity in this country. We are more polarized as a people than any time since the Civil War, and there are many people and entities that have a vested interest in keeping us divided.

You want unity? You need justice first. Trump and a lot those who supported him need to be put in prison first. They need to be broken and economically destroyed, legally, through the courts, of course. There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business. There are millions of people who believe their lies, their conspiracy theories, the garbage that is spewed constantly by those who want to keep us divided. How do you reach them? Frankly, I have no idea.

One thing I know is this: I will not budge an inch for unity until there is justice. Not revenge, justice. Those who got us where we are have to pay for what they've done before I'll ever consider reaching out for unity.

Hell. Yea.

angrysoba · 20th January 2021, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I don't care about the concept generally. I'm here at the service of the OP to help brainstorm actionable goals to assess when justice is achieved and shemp can proceed to unity.

I don't care if shemp says it is everyone gets a puppy. I just need more data from shemp to help shemp.

I tried. Now I just have to make JoeMorgue upset.

shemp · 20th January 2021, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I don't care about the concept generally. I'm here at the service of the OP to help brainstorm actionable goals to assess when justice is achieved and shemp can proceed to unity.

I don't care if shemp says it is everyone gets a puppy. I just need more data from shemp to help shemp.

You will get nothing from me. I need no help from you.

BobTheCoward · 20th January 2021, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

You will get nothing from me. I need no help from you.

Thank you.

Orphia Nay · 20th January 2021, 09:33 PM

Unity is going well, then.

Thermal · 20th January 2021, 09:43 PM

I think that justice and unity are at irreconcilable cross-purposes. Justice first, always, and especially when the offenses threaten the very bedrock of American voting. No wiggle room there.

But unity will not flow from justice or injustice. Normies are not going all kumbaya with Q-tips. Racists are not breaking bread with their LBGTQ brethren. Pretty much by definition, it ain't happening. We'll have unity when people stop living online fantasy lives and reprioritize till the extremes aren't so outlandish. When our flakes stop howling about Satanic pedophile cannibals, we can put unity back on the menu. Till then, it's a matter of survival.

The Atheist · 20th January 2021, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

This is like the argument that terrorists would start being nice if ~~people like Osama bin Laden weren't so poor~~ other people would stop invading their countries.

Originally Posted by shemp

Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk.

As you know, I've been on the bandwagon of cheering as America goes down the toilet for a while, so far be it from me to seem hopeful, but I am.

I might be seeing it with only one eye, or just unable to see the wood for the sheer weight of insanity of the four Trump years, but I actually have positive feelings about USA for the first time since Obama failed to live up to his words. (Yes, I know his hands were partly tied)

The Capitol invasion seems to have been so much a step too far for the right that a significant number of them have changed their tune. Trump is no so toxic I don't think even the KKK would want him. McConnell has clearly passed the point of no return and if he can lead the party into a less scumbag attitude, I think progress can be made. Biden might well be the president man at the right time, and so might Kamala Harris.

But I always get hopeful about politicians, only to see those hopes dashed, so you should probably ignore everything I just said.

BobTheCoward · 20th January 2021, 09:53 PM

It seems a little irrelevant. What the world is going to get are bill that Manchin and Sinema agree to. Neither justice not unity seem related to that.

angrysoba · 20th January 2021, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

This is like the argument that terrorists would start being nice if people like Osama bin Laden weren't so poor.

There is a major flaw in that assumption.

Originally Posted by The Atheist

As you know, I've been on the bandwagon of cheering as America goes down the toilet for a while, so far be it from me to seem hopeful, but I am.

Stupid. I am pointing out that terrorists very rarely are the wretched of the Earth as some people such as you seem to believe. You can try to pretend that people like Osama bin Laden are just anti-imperial activists if you like, but terrorists are more often than not just nasty people who rationalize their evil with a stupid bit of dogma or excuses that people like you make for them.

Remind me who it was that invaded Osama bin Laden's country. Nobody, you say. Well bang goes that theory, then. Too bad.
Remind me who it was that invaded Brenton Tarrant's country. Nobody, you say. Well bang goes that theory, then. Too bad.
Remind me who it was that invaded those MAGA morons' country. Nobody, you say. Well bang goes that theory, then. Too bad.

People who commit those acts require justice, not apologetics.

They are not the wretched of the Earth; they are the scum of the Earth.

The Atheist · 21st January 2021, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Remind me who it was that invaded Osama bin Laden's country. Nobody, you say.

Nope, I'm not saying it was nobody, OBL clearly considered US troops in SA the same as an invasion.

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Remind me who it was that invaded Brenton Tarrant's country.

I know it's considered polite to call Tarrant a terrorist, but he looked just like a plain old racist-crazy to me.

In his twisted excuse for a mind, he believed muslins were invading some country or other.

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Remind me who it was that invaded those MAGA morons' country. Nobody, you say. Well bang goes that theory, then. Too bad.

How many people have they killed so far? 1, I make it.

That's about 1/27th of the daily death total.

On the other hand, Afghan terrorists have killed thousands, and I think you'll find their country was invaded.

Originally Posted by angrysoba

People who commit those acts require justice,

When your thread reaches consensus on what justice actually is, we'll go there. Has the death penalty in USA stopped murder?

Find the cause of the action, punishment is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by angrysoba

... not apologetics.

Finding the cause and removing it has nothing to do with apologetics.

Donal · 21st January 2021, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

The claim that these people are poor rednecks is a stereotype. They come from all economic levels and all walks of life. Throwing money at people doesn't draw them closer to the political center.

It will quell a small group of them. It will also inspire more people who feel left out to be involved, taking influence away from the people in power who feed into it all.

Crossbow · 21st January 2021, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

It seems a little irrelevant. What the world is going to get are bill that Manchin and Sinema agree to. Neither justice not unity seem related to that.

If you can manage to obtain a moment of lucidity, then please correct this posting so that it is at least comprehensible.

Roger Ramjets · 21st January 2021, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk. I'm not sure how Joe Biden thinks he's going to achieve unity in this country. We are more polarized as a people than any time since the Civil War, and there are many people and entities that have a vested interest in keeping us divided.

Yes, this is Biden's biggest challenge. I'm not sure how he will achieve unity either, but screaming for 'justice' before considering anything else doesn't seem like the best way.

Quote:

You want unity? You need justice first. Trump and a lot those who supported him need to be put in prison first.

That's not justice. If Trump or his supporters have committed crimes then of course they should be prosecuted just like anybody else. That's justice. But we will never have true justice, because most of the harmful things he did were perfectly legal. If we let him do bad stuff legally that is our fault for not having sufficient safeguards in place. What's done is done, and your 'justice' will not make it better. What's important is that it doesn't happen again, which it won't once people stop supporting Trump and those like him.

Quote:

There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business. There are millions of people who believe their lies, their conspiracy theories, the garbage that is spewed constantly by those who want to keep us divided. How do you reach them? Frankly, I have no idea.

I have some ideas, but none of them involve violating the Constitution.

Quote:

One thing I know is this: I will not budge an inch for unity until there is justice. Not revenge, justice. Those who got us where we are have to pay for what they've done before I'll ever consider reaching out for unity.

An understandable reaction, but it would be a mistake. The majority of (former) Trump supporters just want to forget about their mistake and move on. If we show them that we are not vindictive and want mostly the same things they do then they will join us. But if we insist on dredging up the past and rubbing their noses in it they will go on the defensive.

Wanting justice for perceived wrongs and defending past actions from criticism are both human nature, but quickly lead to polarization and paralysis. We have the opportunity to break the cycle by not dwelling on the past, but we have to put aside our feelings and take advantage of this opportunity now - because it won't last long.

You have to realize that the lies and conspiracy theories were created purely because conservatives believed liberals would hurt them if given a chance. But Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. will have hard time peddling their garbage when people see that liberals are not the enemy and want to work with them to make their lives better. We do that by showing them that the past is the past and what we do now is what matters.

shemp · 30th January 2021, 01:03 PM

**** Unity.

https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/s...49480756469775

Quote:

"unity" means "**** Black people"

Read the whole thread.

Craig4 · 30th January 2021, 01:22 PM

They put a noose on our Capitol steps. I'll seek unity with their kind when hell freezes over. I will seek unity and make common cause with those who would destroy everyone responsible for the attack on the Capitol and anyone who instigated it. With some we should seek unity, others we should subjugate.

wasapi · 30th January 2021, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I don't care about the concept generally. I'm here at the service of the OP to help brainstorm actionable goals to assess when justice is achieved and shemp can proceed to unity.

I don't care if shemp says it is everyone gets a puppy. I just need more data from shemp to help shemp.

When did shemp indicate that he needed any help? And from you, of all people?

smartcooky · 30th January 2021, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

**** Unity.

https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/s...49480756469775

Read the whole thread.

I did... outstanding!

Garrison · 30th January 2021, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

One way to achieve unity is to give people in need the things they need.

Angry MAGA trailer park rednecks might slide from the opposite end of the unity scale to a bit closer to unity.

Better health care, cheaper pharmaceuticals, higher minimum wage, for a start.

Obama tried that and the very people who stood to gain the most from the ACA protested against it.

shemp · 30th January 2021, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by wasapi

When did shemp indicate that he needed any help? And from you, of all people?

Pay no attention to that coward behind the curtain!

Mader Levap · 30th January 2021, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Garrison

Obama tried that and the very people who stood to gain the most from the ACA protested against it.

Republicans are very good at convincing people to vote against their own interest.

Mumbles · 30th January 2021, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk. I'm not sure how Joe Biden thinks he's going to achieve unity in this country. We are more polarized as a people than any time since the Civil War, and there are many people and entities that have a vested interest in keeping us divided.

When you say "we"...

This may be true of white Americans, specifically. I'd put it at pretty close to 1920 as another extreme low point - the Revolution was hardly unifying, for that matter. Nixon and Reagan were far from great, for that matter - Reagan's bigotry in particularly led to an ugly rollback in civil rights and a completely ignored Pandemic which just happened to hit a group he personally hated.

Quote:

You want unity? You need justice first. Trump and a lot those who supported him need to be put in prison first. They need to be broken and economically destroyed, legally, through the courts, of course. There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business. There are millions of people who believe their lies, their conspiracy theories, the garbage that is spewed constantly by those who want to keep us divided. How do you reach them? Frankly, I have no idea.

I thought there was a movie on people who more or less rescued their elderly relatives by simply blocking FOX News from their tvs using standard child protection. In fact, I'm fairly sure it's titled The Brainwashing of My Dad.

Quote:

One thing I know is this: I will not budge an inch for unity until there is justice. Not revenge, justice. Those who got us where we are have to pay for what they've done before I'll ever consider reaching out for unity.

The major problem isn't so much "unity" as far as politics go, it's the fact that the anti-democracy, authoritarian white supremacist party feels backed into a corner - and instead of, say, appealing to a majority, they've continued their cult-like worship, voter disenfranchisement, violence fetishists, and so on, giving power to manifestly unfit "leaders" like Moscow Mitch McConnell or Toupee Fiasco. Outside of that pack, most folks are actually pretty cool.

Segnosaur · 30th January 2021, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Garrison

Obama tried that and the very people who stood to gain the most from the ACA protested against it.

Actually people love the Affordable Care Act. They just don't like Obamacare.

See: Business Insider

smartcooky · 30th January 2021, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Actually people love the Affordable Care Act. They just don't like Obamacare.

See: Business Insider

Oh, that's hilarious. I'm not even American and I knew this!

Venom · 30th January 2021, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

They put a noose on our Capitol steps. I'll seek unity with their kind when hell freezes over. I will seek unity and make common cause with those who would destroy everyone responsible for the attack on the Capitol and anyone who instigated it. With some we should seek unity, others we should subjugate.

Sounds pretty authoritarian.

Better than the other way around, but still pretty bad.

Unity can only come after justice is meted out to the guilty.	32	59.26%
We need unity so badly that I'm willing to forgive and forget.	2	3.70%
There won't be any unity. There won't be any justice. The U.S. is doomed as a nation.	10	18.52%
We need a new outside enemy to unify us, we need World war III!	0	0%
Planet X will hit Earth and unify with it before people can ever get their **** together.	10	18.52%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

20th January 2021, 04:53 PM	#1
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X Posts: 40,238	Unity and Justice Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk. I'm not sure how Joe Biden thinks he's going to achieve unity in this country. We are more polarized as a people than any time since the Civil War, and there are many people and entities that have a vested interest in keeping us divided. You want unity? You need justice first. Trump and a lot those who supported him need to be put in prison first. They need to be broken and economically destroyed, legally, through the courts, of course. There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business. There are millions of people who believe their lies, their conspiracy theories, the garbage that is spewed constantly by those who want to keep us divided. How do you reach them? Frankly, I have no idea. One thing I know is this: I will not budge an inch for unity until there is justice. Not revenge, justice. Those who got us where we are have to pay for what they've done before I'll ever consider reaching out for unity.
	__________________ If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set. "...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, ~~Trump~~ shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will "[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare

20th January 2021, 06:21 PM	#3
Mader Levap Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1,576	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward How do you know what justice is? Oh no, no, no. Don't.
	__________________ Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.

20th January 2021, 06:41 PM	#4
TJM Potsing Whiled Runk Tagger Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 21,636	Originally Posted by shemp They need to be broken and economically destroyed, legally, through the courts, of course. There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business. There's hope.
	__________________ Laughing my ass off as Trump's brown shirts are rounded up, one by one.

20th January 2021, 06:55 PM	#5
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 38,739	One way to achieve unity is to give people in need the things they need. Angry MAGA trailer park rednecks might slide from the opposite end of the unity scale to a bit closer to unity. Better health care, cheaper pharmaceuticals, higher minimum wage, for a start.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

20th January 2021, 06:12 PM	#2
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,227	How do you know what justice is?

20th January 2021, 06:58 PM	#7
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X Posts: 40,238	Originally Posted by Orphia Nay One way to achieve unity is to give people in need the things they need. Angry MAGA trailer park rednecks might slide from the opposite end of the unity scale to a bit closer to unity. Better health care, cheaper pharmaceuticals, higher minimum wage, for a start. The claim that these people are poor rednecks is a stereotype. They come from all economic levels and all walks of life. Throwing money at people doesn't draw them closer to the political center.
	__________________ If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set. "...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, ~~Trump~~ shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will "[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare

20th January 2021, 07:17 PM	#8
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,642	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward How do you know what justice is? It's a gorgeous lady who is slightly into Sensory Deprivation.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

20th January 2021, 07:22 PM	#9
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,342	Originally Posted by Orphia Nay One way to achieve unity is to give people in need the things they need. Angry MAGA trailer park rednecks might slide from the opposite end of the unity scale to a bit closer to unity. Better health care, cheaper pharmaceuticals, higher minimum wage, for a start. This is like the argument that terrorists would start being nice if people like Osama bin Laden weren't so poor. There is a major flaw in that assumption.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

20th January 2021, 07:24 PM	#10
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,342	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward How do you know what justice is? Do we know the meaning of the word "unity"? Or "And" or "How"....etc.... I think we should just go with the commonly understood meaning of the words. However, if you think that the commonly understood meanings of the words are incorrect, then please start a new thread about it in Religion and Philosophy under the title "What is Justice?"
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

20th January 2021, 07:24 PM	#11
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 38,739	Originally Posted by shemp The claim that these people are poor rednecks is a stereotype. They come from all economic levels and all walks of life. Throwing money at people doesn't draw them closer to the political center. You assumed I meant all of them are rednecks. I didn't. I was giving an example for a couple of policies. There were issues on Biden's running agenda that adressed his plans for all Americans. ETA: https://joebiden.com/presidency-for-all-americans/
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". Last edited by Orphia Nay; 20th January 2021 at 07:47 PM.

20th January 2021, 07:45 PM	#12
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 16,774	Originally Posted by shemp *RABBIT HOLE WARNING* When the red, red robin comes bob, bob, bobbing along......
	__________________ I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

20th January 2021, 07:46 PM	#13
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 16,774	Originally Posted by angrysoba Do we know the meaning of the word "unity"? Or "And" or "How"....etc.... I think we should just go with the commonly understood meaning of the words. However, if you think that the commonly understood meanings of the words are incorrect, then please start a new thread about it in Religion and Philosophy under the title "What is Justice?" Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza It's a gorgeous lady who is slightly into Sensory Deprivation. Please, just don't give him oxygen!
	__________________ I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

20th January 2021, 08:52 PM	#14
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,227	Originally Posted by angrysoba Do we know the meaning of the word "unity"? Or "And" or "How"....etc.... I think we should just go with the commonly understood meaning of the words. However, if you think that the commonly understood meanings of the words are incorrect, then please start a new thread about it in Religion and Philosophy under the title "What is Justice?" I'm fine with the commonly held meaning. But the commonly held meaning is a little nebulous to what the OP is requesting. The OP wants X to occur before Y. If we are doing it procedurally, I would like to get specific on what X is.

20th January 2021, 09:02 PM	#15
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,342	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I'm fine with the commonly held meaning. But the commonly held meaning is a little nebulous to what the OP is requesting. The OP wants X to occur before Y. If we are doing it procedurally, I would like to get specific on what X is. I made a thread... http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=349105
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

20th January 2021, 09:07 PM	#16
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,227	Originally Posted by angrysoba I made a thread... http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=349105 I don't care about the concept generally. I'm here at the service of the OP to help brainstorm actionable goals to assess when justice is achieved and shemp can proceed to unity. I don't care if shemp says it is everyone gets a puppy. I just need more data from shemp to help shemp.

20th January 2021, 09:09 PM	#17
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,882	Originally Posted by shemp Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk. I'm not sure how Joe Biden thinks he's going to achieve unity in this country. We are more polarized as a people than any time since the Civil War, and there are many people and entities that have a vested interest in keeping us divided. You want unity? You need justice first. Trump and a lot those who supported him need to be put in prison first. They need to be broken and economically destroyed, legally, through the courts, of course. There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business. There are millions of people who believe their lies, their conspiracy theories, the garbage that is spewed constantly by those who want to keep us divided. How do you reach them? Frankly, I have no idea. One thing I know is this: I will not budge an inch for unity until there is justice. Not revenge, justice. Those who got us where we are have to pay for what they've done before I'll ever consider reaching out for unity. Hell. Yea.
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage

20th January 2021, 09:12 PM	#18
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,342	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I don't care about the concept generally. I'm here at the service of the OP to help brainstorm actionable goals to assess when justice is achieved and shemp can proceed to unity. I don't care if shemp says it is everyone gets a puppy. I just need more data from shemp to help shemp. I tried. Now I just have to make JoeMorgue upset.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

20th January 2021, 09:21 PM	#19
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X Posts: 40,238	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I don't care about the concept generally. I'm here at the service of the OP to help brainstorm actionable goals to assess when justice is achieved and shemp can proceed to unity. I don't care if shemp says it is everyone gets a puppy. I just need more data from shemp to help shemp. You will get nothing from me. I need no help from you.
	__________________ If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set. "...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, ~~Trump~~ shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will "[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare

20th January 2021, 09:26 PM	#20
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,227	Originally Posted by shemp You will get nothing from me. I need no help from you. Thank you.

20th January 2021, 09:33 PM	#21
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 38,739	Unity is going well, then.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

20th January 2021, 09:43 PM	#22
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,471	I think that justice and unity are at irreconcilable cross-purposes. Justice first, always, and especially when the offenses threaten the very bedrock of American voting. No wiggle room there. But unity will not flow from justice or injustice. Normies are not going all kumbaya with Q-tips. Racists are not breaking bread with their LBGTQ brethren. Pretty much by definition, it ain't happening. We'll have unity when people stop living online fantasy lives and reprioritize till the extremes aren't so outlandish. When our flakes stop howling about Satanic pedophile cannibals, we can put unity back on the menu. Till then, it's a matter of survival.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

20th January 2021, 09:51 PM	#23
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,268	Originally Posted by angrysoba This is like the argument that terrorists would start being nice if ~~people like Osama bin Laden weren't so poor~~ other people would stop invading their countries. Originally Posted by shemp Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk. As you know, I've been on the bandwagon of cheering as America goes down the toilet for a while, so far be it from me to seem hopeful, but I am. I might be seeing it with only one eye, or just unable to see the wood for the sheer weight of insanity of the four Trump years, but I actually have positive feelings about USA for the first time since Obama failed to live up to his words. (Yes, I know his hands were partly tied) The Capitol invasion seems to have been so much a step too far for the right that a significant number of them have changed their tune. Trump is no so toxic I don't think even the KKK would want him. McConnell has clearly passed the point of no return and if he can lead the party into a less scumbag attitude, I think progress can be made. Biden might well be the president man at the right time, and so might Kamala Harris. But I always get hopeful about politicians, only to see those hopes dashed, so you should probably ignore everything I just said.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

20th January 2021, 09:53 PM	#24
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,227	It seems a little irrelevant. What the world is going to get are bill that Manchin and Sinema agree to. Neither justice not unity seem related to that.

20th January 2021, 11:26 PM	#25
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,342	Originally Posted by angrysoba This is like the argument that terrorists would start being nice if people like Osama bin Laden weren't so poor. There is a major flaw in that assumption. Originally Posted by The Atheist As you know, I've been on the bandwagon of cheering as America goes down the toilet for a while, so far be it from me to seem hopeful, but I am. Stupid. I am pointing out that terrorists very rarely are the wretched of the Earth as some people such as you seem to believe. You can try to pretend that people like Osama bin Laden are just anti-imperial activists if you like, but terrorists are more often than not just nasty people who rationalize their evil with a stupid bit of dogma or excuses that people like you make for them. Remind me who it was that invaded Osama bin Laden's country. Nobody, you say. Well bang goes that theory, then. Too bad. Remind me who it was that invaded Brenton Tarrant's country. Nobody, you say. Well bang goes that theory, then. Too bad. Remind me who it was that invaded those MAGA morons' country. Nobody, you say. Well bang goes that theory, then. Too bad. People who commit those acts require justice, not apologetics. They are not the wretched of the Earth; they are the scum of the Earth.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

21st January 2021, 12:45 AM	#26
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,268	Originally Posted by angrysoba Remind me who it was that invaded Osama bin Laden's country. Nobody, you say. Nope, I'm not saying it was nobody, OBL clearly considered US troops in SA the same as an invasion. Originally Posted by angrysoba Remind me who it was that invaded Brenton Tarrant's country. I know it's considered polite to call Tarrant a terrorist, but he looked just like a plain old racist-crazy to me. In his twisted excuse for a mind, he believed muslins were invading some country or other. Originally Posted by angrysoba Remind me who it was that invaded those MAGA morons' country. Nobody, you say. Well bang goes that theory, then. Too bad. How many people have they killed so far? 1, I make it. That's about 1/27th of the daily death total. On the other hand, Afghan terrorists have killed thousands, and I think you'll find their country was invaded. Originally Posted by angrysoba People who commit those acts require justice, When your thread reaches consensus on what justice actually is, we'll go there. Has the death penalty in USA stopped murder? Find the cause of the action, punishment is irrelevant. Originally Posted by angrysoba ... not apologetics. Finding the cause and removing it has nothing to do with apologetics.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

21st January 2021, 05:27 AM	#27
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,332	Originally Posted by shemp The claim that these people are poor rednecks is a stereotype. They come from all economic levels and all walks of life. Throwing money at people doesn't draw them closer to the political center. It will quell a small group of them. It will also inspire more people who feel left out to be involved, taking influence away from the people in power who feed into it all.
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,332	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

21st January 2021, 08:52 AM	#28
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 13,309	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward It seems a little irrelevant. What the world is going to get are bill that Manchin and Sinema agree to. Neither justice not unity seem related to that. If you can manage to obtain a moment of lucidity, then please correct this posting so that it is at least comprehensible.
	__________________ I can barely believe that I made it through the Trump presidency. On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool." A man's best friend is his dogma.

21st January 2021, 02:59 PM	#29
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,334	Originally Posted by shemp Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk. I'm not sure how Joe Biden thinks he's going to achieve unity in this country. We are more polarized as a people than any time since the Civil War, and there are many people and entities that have a vested interest in keeping us divided. Yes, this is Biden's biggest challenge. I'm not sure how he will achieve unity either, but screaming for 'justice' before considering anything else doesn't seem like the best way. Quote: You want unity? You need justice first. Trump and a lot those who supported him need to be put in prison first. That's not justice. If Trump or his supporters have committed crimes then of course they should be prosecuted just like anybody else. That's justice. But we will never have true justice, because most of the harmful things he did were perfectly legal. If we let him do bad stuff legally that is our fault for not having sufficient safeguards in place. What's done is done, and your 'justice' will not make it better. What's important is that it doesn't happen again, which it won't once people stop supporting Trump and those like him. Quote: There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business. There are millions of people who believe their lies, their conspiracy theories, the garbage that is spewed constantly by those who want to keep us divided. How do you reach them? Frankly, I have no idea. I have some ideas, but none of them involve violating the Constitution. Quote: One thing I know is this: I will not budge an inch for unity until there is justice. Not revenge, justice. Those who got us where we are have to pay for what they've done before I'll ever consider reaching out for unity. An understandable reaction, but it would be a mistake. The majority of (former) Trump supporters just want to forget about their mistake and move on. If we show them that we are not vindictive and want mostly the same things they do then they will join us. But if we insist on dredging up the past and rubbing their noses in it they will go on the defensive. Wanting justice for perceived wrongs and defending past actions from criticism are both human nature, but quickly lead to polarization and paralysis. We have the opportunity to break the cycle by not dwelling on the past, but we have to put aside our feelings and take advantage of this opportunity now - because it won't last long. You have to realize that the lies and conspiracy theories were created purely because conservatives believed liberals would hurt them if given a chance. But Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. will have hard time peddling their garbage when people see that liberals are not the enemy and want to work with them to make their lives better. We do that by showing them that the past is the past and what we do now is what matters.
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

30th January 2021, 01:03 PM	#30
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X Posts: 40,238	** Unity. https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/s...49480756469775 Quote: "unity" means "** Black people" Read the whole thread.
	__________________ If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set. "...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, ~~Trump~~ shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will "[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare Last edited by shemp; 30th January 2021 at 01:05 PM.

30th January 2021, 01:22 PM	#31
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 22,555	They put a noose on our Capitol steps. I'll seek unity with their kind when hell freezes over. I will seek unity and make common cause with those who would destroy everyone responsible for the attack on the Capitol and anyone who instigated it. With some we should seek unity, others we should subjugate.

30th January 2021, 01:45 PM	#32
wasapi Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13,188	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I don't care about the concept generally. I'm here at the service of the OP to help brainstorm actionable goals to assess when justice is achieved and shemp can proceed to unity. I don't care if shemp says it is everyone gets a puppy. I just need more data from shemp to help shemp. When did shemp indicate that he needed any help? And from you, of all people?
	__________________ Julia

30th January 2021, 03:06 PM	#33
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 16,774	Originally Posted by shemp **** Unity. https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/s...49480756469775 Read the whole thread. I did... outstanding!
	__________________ I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

30th January 2021, 03:24 PM	#34
Garrison Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: UK Posts: 5,528	Originally Posted by Orphia Nay One way to achieve unity is to give people in need the things they need. Angry MAGA trailer park rednecks might slide from the opposite end of the unity scale to a bit closer to unity. Better health care, cheaper pharmaceuticals, higher minimum wage, for a start. Obama tried that and the very people who stood to gain the most from the ACA protested against it.
	__________________ So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/ And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX

30th January 2021, 03:44 PM	#35
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X Posts: 40,238	Originally Posted by wasapi When did shemp indicate that he needed any help? And from you, of all people? Pay no attention to that coward behind the curtain!
	__________________ If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set. "...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, ~~Trump~~ shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will "[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare