IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
View Poll Results: Unity and Justice
Unity can only come after justice is meted out to the guilty. 32 59.26%
We need unity so badly that I'm willing to forgive and forget. 2 3.70%
There won't be any unity. There won't be any justice. The U.S. is doomed as a nation. 10 18.52%
We need a new outside enemy to unify us, we need World war III! 0 0%
Planet X will hit Earth and unify with it before people can ever get their **** together. 10 18.52%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
Old 20th January 2021, 04:53 PM   #1
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 40,238
Unity and Justice

Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk. I'm not sure how Joe Biden thinks he's going to achieve unity in this country. We are more polarized as a people than any time since the Civil War, and there are many people and entities that have a vested interest in keeping us divided.

You want unity? You need justice first. Trump and a lot those who supported him need to be put in prison first. They need to be broken and economically destroyed, legally, through the courts, of course. There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business. There are millions of people who believe their lies, their conspiracy theories, the garbage that is spewed constantly by those who want to keep us divided. How do you reach them? Frankly, I have no idea.

One thing I know is this: I will not budge an inch for unity until there is justice. Not revenge, justice. Those who got us where we are have to pay for what they've done before I'll ever consider reaching out for unity.
__________________
If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
"[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 06:12 PM   #2
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,227
How do you know what justice is?
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 06:21 PM   #3
Mader Levap
Graduate Poster
 
Mader Levap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,576
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
How do you know what justice is?
Oh no, no, no. Don't.
__________________
Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.
Mader Levap is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 06:41 PM   #4
TJM
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
 
TJM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,636
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
They need to be broken and economically destroyed, legally, through the courts, of course. There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business.
There's hope.
__________________


Laughing my ass off as Trump's brown shirts are rounded up, one by one.
TJM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 06:55 PM   #5
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 38,739
One way to achieve unity is to give people in need the things they need.

Angry MAGA trailer park rednecks might slide from the opposite end of the unity scale to a bit closer to unity.

Better health care, cheaper pharmaceuticals, higher minimum wage, for a start.
__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins
people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid"
- Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 06:55 PM   #6
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 40,238
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
How do you know what justice is?
***RABBIT HOLE WARNING***
__________________
If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
"[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 06:58 PM   #7
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 40,238
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
One way to achieve unity is to give people in need the things they need.

Angry MAGA trailer park rednecks might slide from the opposite end of the unity scale to a bit closer to unity.

Better health care, cheaper pharmaceuticals, higher minimum wage, for a start.
The claim that these people are poor rednecks is a stereotype. They come from all economic levels and all walks of life. Throwing money at people doesn't draw them closer to the political center.
__________________
If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
"[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 07:17 PM   #8
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14,642
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
How do you know what justice is?
It's a gorgeous lady who is slightly into Sensory Deprivation.
__________________
So what are you going to do about it, huh?
What would an intellectual do?
What would Plato do?
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 07:22 PM   #9
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 29,342
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
One way to achieve unity is to give people in need the things they need.

Angry MAGA trailer park rednecks might slide from the opposite end of the unity scale to a bit closer to unity.

Better health care, cheaper pharmaceuticals, higher minimum wage, for a start.
This is like the argument that terrorists would start being nice if people like Osama bin Laden weren't so poor.

There is a major flaw in that assumption.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 07:24 PM   #10
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 29,342
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
How do you know what justice is?
Do we know the meaning of the word "unity"? Or "And" or "How"....etc....

I think we should just go with the commonly understood meaning of the words. However, if you think that the commonly understood meanings of the words are incorrect, then please start a new thread about it in Religion and Philosophy under the title "What is Justice?"
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 07:24 PM   #11
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 38,739
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
The claim that these people are poor rednecks is a stereotype. They come from all economic levels and all walks of life. Throwing money at people doesn't draw them closer to the political center.

You assumed I meant all of them are rednecks. I didn't. I was giving an example for a couple of policies.

There were issues on Biden's running agenda that adressed his plans for all Americans.

ETA: https://joebiden.com/presidency-for-all-americans/
__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins
people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid"
- Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

Last edited by Orphia Nay; 20th January 2021 at 07:47 PM.
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 07:45 PM   #12
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 16,774
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
***RABBIT HOLE WARNING***
When the red, red robin comes bob, bob, bobbing along......
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 07:46 PM   #13
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 16,774
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Do we know the meaning of the word "unity"? Or "And" or "How"....etc....

I think we should just go with the commonly understood meaning of the words. However, if you think that the commonly understood meanings of the words are incorrect, then please start a new thread about it in Religion and Philosophy under the title "What is Justice?"
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It's a gorgeous lady who is slightly into Sensory Deprivation.
Please, just don't give him oxygen!
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 08:52 PM   #14
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,227
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Do we know the meaning of the word "unity"? Or "And" or "How"....etc....

I think we should just go with the commonly understood meaning of the words. However, if you think that the commonly understood meanings of the words are incorrect, then please start a new thread about it in Religion and Philosophy under the title "What is Justice?"
I'm fine with the commonly held meaning. But the commonly held meaning is a little nebulous to what the OP is requesting.

The OP wants X to occur before Y. If we are doing it procedurally, I would like to get specific on what X is.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 09:02 PM   #15
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 29,342
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I'm fine with the commonly held meaning. But the commonly held meaning is a little nebulous to what the OP is requesting.

The OP wants X to occur before Y. If we are doing it procedurally, I would like to get specific on what X is.
I made a thread...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=349105
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 09:07 PM   #16
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,227
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I don't care about the concept generally. I'm here at the service of the OP to help brainstorm actionable goals to assess when justice is achieved and shemp can proceed to unity.

I don't care if shemp says it is everyone gets a puppy. I just need more data from shemp to help shemp.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 09:09 PM   #17
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8,882
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk. I'm not sure how Joe Biden thinks he's going to achieve unity in this country. We are more polarized as a people than any time since the Civil War, and there are many people and entities that have a vested interest in keeping us divided.

You want unity? You need justice first. Trump and a lot those who supported him need to be put in prison first. They need to be broken and economically destroyed, legally, through the courts, of course. There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business. There are millions of people who believe their lies, their conspiracy theories, the garbage that is spewed constantly by those who want to keep us divided. How do you reach them? Frankly, I have no idea.

One thing I know is this: I will not budge an inch for unity until there is justice. Not revenge, justice. Those who got us where we are have to pay for what they've done before I'll ever consider reaching out for unity.
Hell. Yea.
__________________
"To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength"
-Leni Riefenstahl
Wollen owns the stage
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 09:12 PM   #18
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 29,342
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't care about the concept generally. I'm here at the service of the OP to help brainstorm actionable goals to assess when justice is achieved and shemp can proceed to unity.

I don't care if shemp says it is everyone gets a puppy. I just need more data from shemp to help shemp.
I tried. Now I just have to make JoeMorgue upset.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 09:21 PM   #19
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 40,238
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't care about the concept generally. I'm here at the service of the OP to help brainstorm actionable goals to assess when justice is achieved and shemp can proceed to unity.

I don't care if shemp says it is everyone gets a puppy. I just need more data from shemp to help shemp.
You will get nothing from me. I need no help from you.
__________________
If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
"[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 09:26 PM   #20
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,227
Exclamation

Originally Posted by shemp View Post
You will get nothing from me. I need no help from you.
Thank you.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 09:33 PM   #21
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 38,739
Unity is going well, then.
__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins
people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid"
- Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 09:43 PM   #22
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 13,471
I think that justice and unity are at irreconcilable cross-purposes. Justice first, always, and especially when the offenses threaten the very bedrock of American voting. No wiggle room there.

But unity will not flow from justice or injustice. Normies are not going all kumbaya with Q-tips. Racists are not breaking bread with their LBGTQ brethren. Pretty much by definition, it ain't happening. We'll have unity when people stop living online fantasy lives and reprioritize till the extremes aren't so outlandish. When our flakes stop howling about Satanic pedophile cannibals, we can put unity back on the menu. Till then, it's a matter of survival.
__________________
We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 09:51 PM   #23
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,268
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
This is like the argument that terrorists would start being nice if people like Osama bin Laden weren't so poor other people would stop invading their countries.
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk.
As you know, I've been on the bandwagon of cheering as America goes down the toilet for a while, so far be it from me to seem hopeful, but I am.

I might be seeing it with only one eye, or just unable to see the wood for the sheer weight of insanity of the four Trump years, but I actually have positive feelings about USA for the first time since Obama failed to live up to his words. (Yes, I know his hands were partly tied)

The Capitol invasion seems to have been so much a step too far for the right that a significant number of them have changed their tune. Trump is no so toxic I don't think even the KKK would want him. McConnell has clearly passed the point of no return and if he can lead the party into a less scumbag attitude, I think progress can be made. Biden might well be the president man at the right time, and so might Kamala Harris.

But I always get hopeful about politicians, only to see those hopes dashed, so you should probably ignore everything I just said.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 09:53 PM   #24
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,227
It seems a little irrelevant. What the world is going to get are bill that Manchin and Sinema agree to. Neither justice not unity seem related to that.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th January 2021, 11:26 PM   #25
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 29,342
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
This is like the argument that terrorists would start being nice if people like Osama bin Laden weren't so poor.

There is a major flaw in that assumption.
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
As you know, I've been on the bandwagon of cheering as America goes down the toilet for a while, so far be it from me to seem hopeful, but I am.
Stupid. I am pointing out that terrorists very rarely are the wretched of the Earth as some people such as you seem to believe. You can try to pretend that people like Osama bin Laden are just anti-imperial activists if you like, but terrorists are more often than not just nasty people who rationalize their evil with a stupid bit of dogma or excuses that people like you make for them.

Remind me who it was that invaded Osama bin Laden's country. Nobody, you say. Well bang goes that theory, then. Too bad.
Remind me who it was that invaded Brenton Tarrant's country. Nobody, you say. Well bang goes that theory, then. Too bad.
Remind me who it was that invaded those MAGA morons' country. Nobody, you say. Well bang goes that theory, then. Too bad.

People who commit those acts require justice, not apologetics.

They are not the wretched of the Earth; they are the scum of the Earth.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st January 2021, 12:45 AM   #26
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,268
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Remind me who it was that invaded Osama bin Laden's country. Nobody, you say.
Nope, I'm not saying it was nobody, OBL clearly considered US troops in SA the same as an invasion.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Remind me who it was that invaded Brenton Tarrant's country.
I know it's considered polite to call Tarrant a terrorist, but he looked just like a plain old racist-crazy to me.

In his twisted excuse for a mind, he believed muslins were invading some country or other.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Remind me who it was that invaded those MAGA morons' country. Nobody, you say. Well bang goes that theory, then. Too bad.
How many people have they killed so far? 1, I make it.

That's about 1/27th of the daily death total.

On the other hand, Afghan terrorists have killed thousands, and I think you'll find their country was invaded.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
People who commit those acts require justice,
When your thread reaches consensus on what justice actually is, we'll go there. Has the death penalty in USA stopped murder?

Find the cause of the action, punishment is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
... not apologetics.
Finding the cause and removing it has nothing to do with apologetics.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st January 2021, 05:27 AM   #27
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,332
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
The claim that these people are poor rednecks is a stereotype. They come from all economic levels and all walks of life. Throwing money at people doesn't draw them closer to the political center.
It will quell a small group of them. It will also inspire more people who feel left out to be involved, taking influence away from the people in power who feed into it all.
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st January 2021, 08:52 AM   #28
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
 
Crossbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 13,309
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It seems a little irrelevant. What the world is going to get are bill that Manchin and Sinema agree to. Neither justice not unity seem related to that.
If you can manage to obtain a moment of lucidity, then please correct this posting so that it is at least comprehensible.
__________________
I can barely believe that I made it through the Trump presidency.

On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool."

A man's best friend is his dogma.
Crossbow is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st January 2021, 02:59 PM   #29
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,334
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk. I'm not sure how Joe Biden thinks he's going to achieve unity in this country. We are more polarized as a people than any time since the Civil War, and there are many people and entities that have a vested interest in keeping us divided.
Yes, this is Biden's biggest challenge. I'm not sure how he will achieve unity either, but screaming for 'justice' before considering anything else doesn't seem like the best way.

Quote:
You want unity? You need justice first. Trump and a lot those who supported him need to be put in prison first.
That's not justice. If Trump or his supporters have committed crimes then of course they should be prosecuted just like anybody else. That's justice. But we will never have true justice, because most of the harmful things he did were perfectly legal. If we let him do bad stuff legally that is our fault for not having sufficient safeguards in place. What's done is done, and your 'justice' will not make it better. What's important is that it doesn't happen again, which it won't once people stop supporting Trump and those like him.

Quote:
There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business. There are millions of people who believe their lies, their conspiracy theories, the garbage that is spewed constantly by those who want to keep us divided. How do you reach them? Frankly, I have no idea.
I have some ideas, but none of them involve violating the Constitution.

Quote:
One thing I know is this: I will not budge an inch for unity until there is justice. Not revenge, justice. Those who got us where we are have to pay for what they've done before I'll ever consider reaching out for unity.
An understandable reaction, but it would be a mistake. The majority of (former) Trump supporters just want to forget about their mistake and move on. If we show them that we are not vindictive and want mostly the same things they do then they will join us. But if we insist on dredging up the past and rubbing their noses in it they will go on the defensive.

Wanting justice for perceived wrongs and defending past actions from criticism are both human nature, but quickly lead to polarization and paralysis. We have the opportunity to break the cycle by not dwelling on the past, but we have to put aside our feelings and take advantage of this opportunity now - because it won't last long.

You have to realize that the lies and conspiracy theories were created purely because conservatives believed liberals would hurt them if given a chance. But Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. will have hard time peddling their garbage when people see that liberals are not the enemy and want to work with them to make their lives better. We do that by showing them that the past is the past and what we do now is what matters.
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
Roger Ramjets is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th January 2021, 01:03 PM   #30
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 40,238
**** Unity.

https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/s...49480756469775

Quote:
"unity" means "**** Black people"
Read the whole thread.
__________________
If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
"[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare

Last edited by shemp; 30th January 2021 at 01:05 PM.
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th January 2021, 01:22 PM   #31
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 22,555
They put a noose on our Capitol steps. I'll seek unity with their kind when hell freezes over. I will seek unity and make common cause with those who would destroy everyone responsible for the attack on the Capitol and anyone who instigated it. With some we should seek unity, others we should subjugate.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th January 2021, 01:45 PM   #32
wasapi
Penultimate Amazing
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 13,188
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't care about the concept generally. I'm here at the service of the OP to help brainstorm actionable goals to assess when justice is achieved and shemp can proceed to unity.

I don't care if shemp says it is everyone gets a puppy. I just need more data from shemp to help shemp.
When did shemp indicate that he needed any help? And from you, of all people?
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th January 2021, 03:06 PM   #33
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 16,774
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
**** Unity.

https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/s...49480756469775



Read the whole thread.
I did... outstanding!
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th January 2021, 03:24 PM   #34
Garrison
Philosopher
 
Garrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,528
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
One way to achieve unity is to give people in need the things they need.

Angry MAGA trailer park rednecks might slide from the opposite end of the unity scale to a bit closer to unity.

Better health care, cheaper pharmaceuticals, higher minimum wage, for a start.
Obama tried that and the very people who stood to gain the most from the ACA protested against it.
__________________
So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/
And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX
Garrison is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th January 2021, 03:44 PM   #35
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 40,238
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
When did shemp indicate that he needed any help? And from you, of all people?
Pay no attention to that coward behind the curtain!
__________________
If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
"[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th January 2021, 04:02 PM   #36
Mader Levap
Graduate Poster
 
Mader Levap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,576
Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Obama tried that and the very people who stood to gain the most from the ACA protested against it.
Republicans are very good at convincing people to vote against their own interest.
__________________
Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.
Mader Levap is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th January 2021, 04:48 PM   #37
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,404
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Talk about unity sounds good, but it's just talk. I'm not sure how Joe Biden thinks he's going to achieve unity in this country. We are more polarized as a people than any time since the Civil War, and there are many people and entities that have a vested interest in keeping us divided.
When you say "we"...

This may be true of white Americans, specifically. I'd put it at pretty close to 1920 as another extreme low point - the Revolution was hardly unifying, for that matter. Nixon and Reagan were far from great, for that matter - Reagan's bigotry in particularly led to an ugly rollback in civil rights and a completely ignored Pandemic which just happened to hit a group he personally hated.

Quote:
You want unity? You need justice first. Trump and a lot those who supported him need to be put in prison first. They need to be broken and economically destroyed, legally, through the courts, of course. There are entities like Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Parler, etc. that need to be reigned in and quieted down or put out of business. There are millions of people who believe their lies, their conspiracy theories, the garbage that is spewed constantly by those who want to keep us divided. How do you reach them? Frankly, I have no idea.
I thought there was a movie on people who more or less rescued their elderly relatives by simply blocking FOX News from their tvs using standard child protection. In fact, I'm fairly sure it's titled The Brainwashing of My Dad.

Quote:
One thing I know is this: I will not budge an inch for unity until there is justice. Not revenge, justice. Those who got us where we are have to pay for what they've done before I'll ever consider reaching out for unity.
The major problem isn't so much "unity" as far as politics go, it's the fact that the anti-democracy, authoritarian white supremacist party feels backed into a corner - and instead of, say, appealing to a majority, they've continued their cult-like worship, voter disenfranchisement, violence fetishists, and so on, giving power to manifestly unfit "leaders" like Moscow Mitch McConnell or Toupee Fiasco. Outside of that pack, most folks are actually pretty cool.

Last edited by Mumbles; 30th January 2021 at 04:49 PM.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th January 2021, 08:04 PM   #38
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 17,105
Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Obama tried that and the very people who stood to gain the most from the ACA protested against it.
Actually people love the Affordable Care Act. They just don't like Obamacare.

See: Business Insider
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th January 2021, 08:19 PM   #39
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 16,774
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Actually people love the Affordable Care Act. They just don't like Obamacare.

See: Business Insider
Oh, that's hilarious. I'm not even American and I knew this!
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th January 2021, 10:09 PM   #40
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,890
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
They put a noose on our Capitol steps. I'll seek unity with their kind when hell freezes over. I will seek unity and make common cause with those who would destroy everyone responsible for the attack on the Capitol and anyone who instigated it. With some we should seek unity, others we should subjugate.
Sounds pretty authoritarian.

Better than the other way around, but still pretty bad.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:16 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.