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Old 22nd June 2022, 06:00 PM   #2121
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
It's just as likely that the venue who admitted to booking the show as a stunt then realized they could make a bigger name for themselves by cancelling because of unspecified feelings of unsafeness in "the community". You know, another stunt.
I'd say my explanation is significantly more straightforward: Some people got upset and asked the venue to cancel the concert, and (after a bit of hemming and hawing) the venue capitulated to their demands.
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Old 22nd June 2022, 11:21 PM   #2122
Graham2001
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Found this article which is describing online bullying but the person who wrote it called it 'Canceling'


Quote:
Last week, I watched my teen daughter get cancelled on Snapchat in real-time. It was savage, brutal, and heartbreaking.

Friendships ended in a matter of minutes.

A mother watching the pack mentality as girls were added to the group chat to participate in a public verbal bashing. Some of these girls she barely knew.

Other girls stuck in the middle, not wanting to support my daughter in case the same thing happened to them.

It was vile, appalling, and honestly made me despair for this generation that we are raising who seem completely incapable of communicating with each other in person. What should have been a private conversation between two friends sorting something out became a very public ambush.

And why you ask?

All because of third-hand 'evidence' that my daughter had said something about another girl.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/lifestyle/...hat/ar-AAYKJvc
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Old 23rd June 2022, 01:15 AM   #2123
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Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
Found this article which is describing online bullying but the person who wrote it called it 'Canceling'





https://www.msn.com/en-au/lifestyle/...hat/ar-AAYKJvc
If it is about online bullying what relevance does it have to the topic of this thread?
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Old 23rd June 2022, 05:05 AM   #2124
wareyin
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I'd say my explanation is significantly more straightforward: Some people got upset and asked the venue to cancel the concert, and (after a bit of hemming and hawing) the venue capitulated to their demands.
Is anyone surprised that you think your explanation, which requires your assumption to be true and then uses that presumed truth as evidence that it is true, is the correct one?

Be honest, had you heard of John Hinckley's "music" or the Market Hotel before the Market Hotel's stunt cancellation brought them to your attention?
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Old 23rd June 2022, 07:01 AM   #2125
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I'd say it's generally worthwhile to distinguish between problems which can be fixed by changing policy and problems which can really only be fixed by changing minds.
What’s the problem here that you think needs to be fixed?
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Old 23rd June 2022, 02:58 PM   #2126
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Is anyone surprised that you think your explanation, which requires your assumption to be true and then uses that presumed truth as evidence that it is true, is the correct one?
Why should anyone care if people are surprised? Here is what happened, step-by-step:
  1. Venue sets up gig
  2. Venue sells out gig
  3. Venue pressured to cancel gig
  4. Venue cancels gig
This is textbook cancel culture in action, even if the protagonist is singularly unsympathetic.

Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
What’s the problem here that you think needs to be fixed?
Ask the people who paid to see the concert.
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Old 23rd June 2022, 03:04 PM   #2127
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Have you checked to see whether the podcast in question actually got cancelled subsequent to this prediction?

https://twitter.com/replyall/status/1526981831748468740
Today was the last day of Reply All, a massively popular show which brought joy to many listeners until the cancel culture fair reckoning brought it down.

https://twitter.com/newsmanual/statu...76089962876928
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Old 23rd June 2022, 03:16 PM   #2128
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Ask the people who paid to see the concert.
The problem that needs fixing is that a concert was cancelled?

Concerts get cancelled all the time for a variety of reasons. How many concerts do you think were cancelled during the first two years of the pandemic? (Hint: A lot.) Most emotionally-healthy adults accept this minor disappointment and move on with their lives.

Why do you view this as a problem that needs fixing?
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Old 23rd June 2022, 03:21 PM   #2129
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Today was the last day of Reply All, a massively popular show which brought joy to many listeners until the cancel culture fair reckoning brought it down.

https://twitter.com/newsmanual/statu...76089962876928
Luckily, the joy we get from laughing at people emotionally invested in the existence of a podcast will last us a lifetime.
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Old 24th June 2022, 05:18 AM   #2130
wareyin
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Why should anyone care if people are surprised? Here is what happened, step-by-step:
  1. Venue sets up gig
  2. Venue sells out gig
  3. Venue pressured to cancel gig
  4. Venue cancels gig
This is textbook cancel culture in action, even if the protagonist is singularly unsympathetic.
Have you, perhaps, heard that correlation does not equal causation? Is there some reason you're ignoring that by cancelling the gig Market Hotel got massive amounts of free publicity and the fact that that certainly gives them just as much if not more motive to cancel than a handful of tweets?

Will d4m10n continue to assume his conclusions? Stay tuned!
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Old 24th June 2022, 07:01 AM   #2131
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Even putting the causation error aside and assuming the reasoning is correct, it’s still not clear what the problem is.

What’s being described is a scenario in which a venue scheduled an event, a bunch of people said “We don’t like that and you shouldn’t do it”, and the venue said “Okay then, we won’t do it”.

What is the specific problem with that?
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Old 24th June 2022, 07:18 AM   #2132
wareyin
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Even putting the causation error aside and assuming the reasoning is correct, it’s still not clear what the problem is.

What’s being described is a scenario in which a venue scheduled an event, a bunch of people said “We don’t like that and you shouldn’t do it”, and the venue said “Okay then, we won’t do it”.

What is the specific problem with that?
I think it's something to do with a podcast or something?

Or d4m10n's previous take that popular performers should never be held accountable for their actions....no, wait, Hinckley isn't a popular performer.

Wait...maybe it's mean tweets?

Um, yeah...I'm struggling to figure out what problem d4m10n is trying to bring out attention to, as well.
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Old 24th June 2022, 07:51 AM   #2133
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Even big law firms like Kirkland and Ellis get in on the cancellations... https://abovethelaw.com/2022/06/paul...e-case-may-be/

(No, it isn't cancel culture like Clement claims and the article is very snarky about how stupid the claim is.)
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Old 25th June 2022, 01:26 PM   #2134
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Concerts get cancelled all the time for a variety of reasons. How many concerts do you think were cancelled during the first two years of the pandemic?
Analogizing cancel culture to an historically disruptive pandemic might not be quite the own you think it is. I'm happy to concede that both forms of virality need to be mitigated and minimized.

Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Why do you view this as a problem that needs fixing?
Any time people are denied the opportunity to enjoy a performance, speech, podcast, film, book, etc. they are denied at least some of the benefits of living in a free marketplace of ideas.

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Is there some reason you're ignoring that by cancelling the gig Market Hotel got massive amounts of free publicity and the fact that that certainly gives them just as much if not more motive to cancel than a handful of tweets?
First off, it's silly to assume that tweets are the only feedback in play here just because I scraped Twitter rather than Instagram—one of those sites is readily searchable, the other is not.

Secondly, the venue knew exactly what they were up against:
https://twitter.com/markethotelnyc/s...70317061480453

Finally, the venue explained their actions fairly clearly in the above-linked Instagram post. "We aren't living in that kind of free country anymore..." because of a cultural shift in favor of deplatforming those whom we find offensive, even when their performance "harms no one in any practical way."
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