Rape victim to pay child support to her rapist - Page 20

Darat · 23rd June 2022, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

I wonder what this means in the grand scheme of things:

It makes me feel even more sorry for the daughter. It truly seems like she's in the middle of this and I can't imagine that can be fun. Now she's living with neither parent and she has to understand the legal things that will be coming at her. I guess we'll find out if the rape\abuse allegations are true or not, since she won't be getting guidance from either parent.

Good for her.

"They **** you up, your mum and dad." - Philip Larkin - if it wasn't poetry, it would be about the best summary and advice going.

plague311 · 23rd June 2022, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

"They **** you up, your mum and dad." - Philip Larkin - if it wasn't poetry, it would be about the best summary and advice going.

It's spot on in this case. The more I read, the more I'm convinced neither of them should have a dog, let alone a child.

One thing I haven't looked up, I wonder if the father has any other children? We've seen how some have labeled the mother "the village bicycle" and the father claims she's had several men sleeping over, but what's this guys' deal? How come his relationships haven't been thrust front and center? I mean, he obviously makes poor decisions. Best case scenario he had unprotected sex with a woman he met in a bar while in his 30s. I'd imagine she's not the only one.

bluesjnr · 23rd June 2022, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

This statement made me laugh so ******* hard. You're all like, "This is overblown to me" and then blow every single statement possibly said in relation to his "control" over the police, out of proportion. By a couple fold.

No one has even implied anything close to what you're claiming in this long, out of proportion hyperbole. Seriously though, I haven't laughed that hard in so long. Oh man. Just classic.

Anyway, what some have claimed here is that since he's worked hand-in-hand (building a website, not sure what the **** you're bring up flyers for, but whatever) then friendships easily could have been formed. It's not some complicated, ******* Scarlet Witch level sorcery. It's normal, basic human interaction. The more time you spend with someone, the more time you chat it up, you get to know them, and sometimes those people are in positions of power. I mean, how the **** is this confusing people? Do I think there was a massive cover-up? No. There doesn't have to be.

For all the screaming of "wE hAVe 2 B teH sKepTICS" I seriously thought something as simple as forming a friendship wouldn't have to be explained so thoroughly.

It seems to me that, on the one hand, you are dismissing any level whatsoever of "control" as laughable and hyperbolic then, on the other, going on to explain how Barnes might have been able to exert some level of "control" via a friendship or long term association. You pour scorn on one theory then advance yours.

That's how it reads to me, so I'm one of those "confused people". Can you assist and clear the fug ?

plague311 · 23rd June 2022, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

It seems to me that, on the one hand, you are dismissing any level whatsoever of "control" as laughable and hyperbolic then, on the other, going on to explain how Barnes might have been able to exert some level of "control" via a friendship or long term association. You pour scorn on one theory to advance another.

That's how it reads to me, so I'm one of those "confused people". Can you assist and clear the fug ?

Absolutely.

You see, there's a difference between "passive" and "active" when it comes to the claimed "control". What cmikes, and warp12 have claimed is that people here are saying Barnes is some kind of "puppet master" with "Svengali-like" control. When really, no one has ever said that. No one has ever even claimed anything relatively close to either one of those. Barnes didn't need to have that level of "control" is the entire point I'm making. In fact, the extent of his "control" could be nothing more than being friends with multiple people in the department that was a result of his working with the police department to create a website (I'm sure he did them for more than just the police since it's a small town, but I digress).

The result of that friendship could have caused police, including possibly the chief, to just...ignore the accusations against him because they knew him, they were friends, he wouldn't do that. That's not some grand ******* conspiracy, it's not some magical control over the department, it's just good ol' boys ignoring claims against one of their friends.

Which I seriously felt was clear by the descriptions in the story. His ins at the police department got him special consideration.

I hope that helped.

TheGoldcountry · 23rd June 2022, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

This is the modern world. We want to be able to live like libertines, undermine any social taboos or censure, but also be free from consequences, regret, people doing bad things and act like outraged puritans when consequences occur. A culture that is outraged about a 16 year old having sex shouldn't simultaneously be doing sex-positive sex ed to pre-teens. We want to have our cake, and eat it, and not get fat or feel bad or have anybody judge us.
]

What a load of puritanical crap.

Equating sex ed to having unprotected sex between minors and adults is like comparing driver's ed to advocating street racing.

Get a ******* grip.

cmikes · 23rd June 2022, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by sarge

I have engaged in many, many casual sexual encounters. Really, a lot of them. Never once was I in a situation where it was conceivable that the girls was sufficiently young enough to approach the AOC, nor did I ever need to check an ID.

I consider it possible, but not remotely likely that the guy in this case did not know the girl was at least possibly under age. And in that circumstance, you don’t proceed unless you just want to hook up with inappropriately young girls. If it occurs to you that you need to see an ID, you are just looking for plausible deniability.

It's probably a good thing for me then that I never was into the hookup scene. If I had met a woman drinking in a bar after being carded by the bartender, it would never even occur to me that she might be underage. Maybe it's just because I was never a part of that culture that it seems weird.

shuttlt · 23rd June 2022, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry

What a load of puritanical crap.

Equating sex ed to having unprotected sex between minors and adults is like comparing driver's ed to advocating street racing.

Get a ******* grip.

I didn't compare sex ed to having unprotected sex between minors and adults.

cmikes · 23rd June 2022, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

This statement made me laugh so ******* hard. You're all like, "This is overblown to me" and then blow every single statement possibly said in relation to his "control" over the police, out of proportion. By a couple fold.

No one has even implied anything close to what you're claiming in this long, out of proportion hyperbole. Seriously though, I haven't laughed that hard in so long. Oh man. Just classic.

Anyway, what some have claimed here is that since he's worked hand-in-hand (building a website, not sure what the **** you're bring up flyers for, but whatever) then friendships easily could have been formed. It's not some complicated, ******* Scarlet Witch level sorcery. It's normal, basic human interaction. The more time you spend with someone, the more time you chat it up, you get to know them, and sometimes those people are in positions of power. I mean, how the **** is this confusing people? Do I think there was a massive cover-up? No. There doesn't have to be.

For all the screaming of "wE hAVe 2 B teH sKepTICS" I seriously thought something as simple as forming a friendship wouldn't have to be explained so thoroughly.

Yeah, I was wrong on the posters thing. I saw "Graphics designer" in one of the news stories and was thinking "guy from Staples", not web designer.

But to your point, how likely is the web designer for a small police department to know the officers and more importantly the judges that work in the court system? I would think that sort of thing would be arranged by the city manager or administrator or whatever. Would he even work on site and meet any of these people? Maybe you're right and these guys are all best buds and hang out together on the weekends but we haven't seen any evidence of this.

I think a much more likely explanation is that false or exaggerated claims are very often made in child support and custody cases on both sides and the judge is aware of this and so is skeptical of claims made without any evidence and almost a decade after the fact.

It's entirely possible I'm wrong. Maybe someone will bring forth Facebook posts or whatever of Barnes posting "Hey, just going out drinking with my friend the judge" or whatever. If that happens I'll change my opinion accordingly, but until then a judge being skeptical of claims made without evidence in a custody/child support dispute isn't very surprising.

cmikes · 23rd June 2022, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

It's spot on in this case. The more I read, the more I'm convinced neither of them should have a dog, let alone a child.

One thing I haven't looked up, I wonder if the father has any other children? We've seen how some have labeled the mother "the village bicycle" and the father claims she's had several men sleeping over, but what's this guys' deal? How come his relationships haven't been thrust front and center? I mean, he obviously makes poor decisions. Best case scenario he had unprotected sex with a woman he met in a bar while in his 30s. I'd imagine she's not the only one.

As much as we may disagree about other aspects of the case, I'm one hundred percent in agreement with the above.

plague311 · 23rd June 2022, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by cmikes

But to your point, how likely is the web designer for a small police department to know the officers and more importantly the judges that work in the court system? I would think that sort of thing would be arranged by the city manager or administrator or whatever. Would he even work on site and meet any of these people? Maybe you're right and these guys are all best buds and hang out together on the weekends but we haven't seen any evidence of this.

Anything is possible. I don't know how this specific county\city works, but I do have experience doing IT for 2 sheriff's offices in small town MN, and ND. Perhaps the city manager might handle taking bids or quotes for the cost of the build, but I can't imagine the higher ups at the sheriff's dept. wouldn't be sitting down and talking about how they'd like the site to look. The person to have that talk with would be the project manager, which as the owner, I'd imagine Barnes was. Again, to throw your hyperbole out the window, no one is claiming they're best buds. Having a friendship can be just that and it can be enough to sway a decision. They don't have to be lovers in the night for someone to let their impression of that person sway their actions.

Originally Posted by cmikes

I think a much more likely explanation is that false or exaggerated claims are very often made in child support and custody cases on both sides and the judge is aware of this and so is skeptical of claims made without any evidence and almost a decade after the fact.

Like all of the things he took as fact from the father? I mean, it certainly seems like he won't accept anything the mother says, even when there is evidence (like a hospital saying there was forced sex with regards to the daughter), which he dismissed without any reasoning given. Without any known evidence he turned the daughter over to the father because the father said the mother gave the daughter a phone. How about the father telling the judge the mother has guys sleep over? How could the father possibly prove that? He couldn't, but it didn't stop the judge from ruling using that statement as fact. So, sure. Odd that he only seems to be concerned about evidence when the mother is making a claim, isn't it?

Originally Posted by cmikes

It's entirely possible I'm wrong. Maybe someone will bring forth Facebook posts or whatever of Barnes posting "Hey, just going out drinking with my friend the judge" or whatever. If that happens I'll change my opinion accordingly, but until then a judge being skeptical of claims made without evidence in a custody/child support dispute isn't very surprising.

Again with this ****. Stop. I don't know who you think this **** is fooling, but my guess is no one. No one has said they're drinking buddies, best friends, etc. The only one implying that **** is you. Literally, you, that's it. I don't know how the **** you think it's helping you make your point, but you can seriously save it.

sarge · 23rd June 2022, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by cmikes

It's probably a good thing for me then that I never was into the hookup scene. If I had met a woman drinking in a bar after being carded by the bartender, it would never even occur to me that she might be underage. Maybe it's just because I was never a part of that culture that it seems weird.

I’ve seen hundreds of girls in bars that could easily be underage, drinking. I’d never get so far into a conversation with them that their ID would become an issue.

I still dislike the LA law. I would prefer that the US have universal laws for some things. A person may join the Army at 17. A person may join the Army at 30. It isn’t likely, but it is possible that a 30 year old private may be under the direct supervision of a 17 year old Corporal. If they hook up on base, the 17 year old may be guilty of a crime for having sex with a subordinate. If the hook-up happens off-base in the same general locale, the 30 year old might be guilty of rape (yes, I am assuming an AOC of 18).

shuttlt · 23rd June 2022, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by sarge

I’ve seen hundreds of girls in bars that could easily be underage, drinking. I’d never get so far into a conversation with them that their ID would become an issue.

Are you sure? I mean, unless you are checking all the girls IDs, maybe some of the ones you don't think could be underage actually are...?

TheGoldcountry · 23rd June 2022, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

I didn't compare sex ed to having unprotected sex between minors and adults.

You're right. You said that "we" (taking big liberties with "we" there) all want to live like libertines, with no consequences for our actions, which means we can't complain about 16 year-olds having babies.

Which is pure crap.

sarge · 23rd June 2022, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Are you sure? I mean, unless you are checking all the girls IDs, maybe some of the ones you don't think could be underage actually are...?

I am sure. I’m not attracted to girls of any age that could reasonably be confused for a 21 year old. I do not believe it remotely likely that a 30 year old man will legitimately confuse a 16 year old girl for a 24 year old woman, even if she is drinking in a bar. If he asks for an ID, he is looking for deniability.

It is possible to confuse a 16 year old girl for an 18 year old young lady (or maybe a 20 year old) but not without having significant doubt as to her age.

shuttlt · 23rd June 2022, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by sarge

I am sure. I’m not attracted to girls of any age that could reasonably be confused for a 21 year old. I do not believe it remotely likely that a 30 year old man will legitimately confuse a 16 year old girl for a 24 year old woman, even if she is drinking in a bar. If he asks for an ID, he is looking for deniability.

It is possible to confuse a 16 year old girl for an 18 year old young lady (or maybe a 20 year old) but not without having significant doubt as to her age.

But you haven't actually tested your judgement? I haven't checked either, but if you look at some makeup transformation videos... given the lighting in a bar and a bit of alcohol... I am less confident than you are.

shuttlt · 23rd June 2022, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry

You're right. You said that "we" (taking big liberties with "we" there) all want to live like libertines, with no consequences for our actions, which means we can't complain about 16 year-olds having babies.

Which is pure crap.

I do think we have two contradictory impulses. We want to have freedom, but we do not expect to have consequences. The previous system where there were societal taboos sought to prevent situations arising at the cost of freedom. That has been replaced by a system where the state comes in to clean up after things have gone wrong.

To my mind if we are going to be chill and say "teens are going to be having sex anyway" and do sex-positive sex-ed to young children, then we clearly aren't that fussed with kids having sex. Then turning around and acting shocked and appalled when a 16 year old lies about their age and has sex with a 30 year old seems contradictory to me. I thought sex was positive and not damaging? We undermine our outrage with all the sex positive messaging to kids.

I think the whole of society is too sexualised, so I'm going in a whole other direction here.

plague311 · 23rd June 2022, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

I do think we have two contradictory impulses. We want to have freedom, but we do not expect to have consequences. The previous system where there were societal taboos sought to prevent situations arising at the cost of freedom. That has been replaced by a system where the state comes in to clean up after things have gone wrong.

To my mind if we are going to be chill and say "teens are going to be having sex anyway" and do sex-positive sex-ed to young children, then we clearly aren't that fussed with kids having sex. Then turning around and acting shocked and appalled when a 16 year old lies about their age and has sex with a 30 year old seems contradictory to me. I thought sex was positive and not damaging? We undermine our outrage with all the sex positive messaging to kids.

I think the whole of society is too sexualised, so I'm going in a whole other direction here.

You're just completely disregarding the fact that she said it wasn't consensual? I know, I know. We don't have "evidence" and the "timing is convenient" and "wE hAvE 2 b tEh SKepTIcs" and all, but that kind of seems like a huge thing you've decided to leave out. She didn't lie about her age in order to **** a 30 year old, though I'm sure you'll say something like, "We don't know that!", as nonsensical as that will be. She lied to hang out in a bar. Sex is damaging when one party doesn't want to be sexed in the first place.

Sex is fine. It's enjoyable, it's fun, but that doesn't mean that's always the case.

johnny karate · 23rd June 2022, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

I do think we have two contradictory impulses. We want to have freedom, but we do not expect to have consequences. The previous system where there were societal taboos sought to prevent situations arising at the cost of freedom. That has been replaced by a system where the state comes in to clean up after things have gone wrong.

To my mind if we are going to be chill and say "teens are going to be having sex anyway" and do sex-positive sex-ed to young children, then we clearly aren't that fussed with kids having sex. Then turning around and acting shocked and appalled when a 16 year old lies about their age and has sex with a 30 year old seems contradictory to me. I thought sex was positive and not damaging? We undermine our outrage with all the sex positive messaging to kids.

I think the whole of society is too sexualised, so I'm going in a whole other direction here.

"If we provide sex education to children, it should be okay to **** them" is quite the take.

TheGoldcountry · 23rd June 2022, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

"If we provide sex education to children, it should be okay to **** them" is quite the take.

I love this country.

It's seen as perfectly normal to teach children how to shoot guns, and nobody freaks out and thinks they're going to be crazed killers, but teach teenagers about their bodies so they have realistic and healthy attitudes about sex? Well, that's the devil's work, son!

lionking · 23rd June 2022, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by plague311

Anything is possible. I don't know how this specific county\city works, but I do have experience doing IT for 2 sheriff's offices in small town MN, and ND. Perhaps the city manager might handle taking bids or quotes for the cost of the build, but I can't imagine the higher ups at the sheriff's dept. wouldn't be sitting down and talking about how they'd like the site to look. The person to have that talk with would be the project manager, which as the owner, I'd imagine Barnes was. Again, to throw your hyperbole out the window, no one is claiming they're best buds. Having a friendship can be just that and it can be enough to sway a decision. They don't have to be lovers in the night for someone to let their impression of that person sway their actions.

Like all of the things he took as fact from the father? I mean, it certainly seems like he won't accept anything the mother says, even when there is evidence (like a hospital saying there was forced sex with regards to the daughter), which he dismissed without any reasoning given. Without any known evidence he turned the daughter over to the father because the father said the mother gave the daughter a phone. How about the father telling the judge the mother has guys sleep over? How could the father possibly prove that? He couldn't, but it didn't stop the judge from ruling using that statement as fact. So, sure. Odd that he only seems to be concerned about evidence when the mother is making a claim, isn't it?

Again with this ****. Stop. I don't know who you think this **** is fooling, but my guess is no one. No one has said they're drinking buddies, best friends, etc. The only one implying that **** is you. Literally, you, that's it. I don't know how the **** you think it's helping you make your point, but you can seriously save it.

When I looked up that police department’s website it listed five staff. It’s entirely likely Barnes knew and interacted with every one of them.

lionking · 23rd June 2022, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry

I love this country.

It's seen as perfectly normal to teach children how to shoot guns, and nobody freaks out and thinks they're going to be crazed killers, but teach teenagers about their bodies so they have realistic and healthy attitudes about sex? Well, that's the devil's work, son!

Indeed. This thread is illuminating in more ways than one.

casebro · 23rd June 2022, 05:00 PM

Could a paternity test vis-a-vis rape, be considered testifying against your self, and be in-admissible in criminal court? Hmm, better get it in writing from the DA first I suppose. Bargaining chip would be child support vs daddy getting a criminal record.

sarge · 23rd June 2022, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by casebro

Could a paternity test vis-a-vis rape, be considered testifying against your self, and be in-admissible in criminal court? Hmm, better get it in writing from the DA first I suppose. Bargaining chip would be child support vs daddy getting a criminal record.

Generally, collecting a dna sample for investigative purposes requires a warrant unless the sample has been abandoned or left some place where no expectation of privacy exists.

plague311 · 24th June 2022, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

When I looked up that police department’s website it listed five staff. It’s entirely likely Barnes knew and interacted with every one of them.

Haha really? Then...yeah. It's totally beyond belief that a guy makes a website for a department with 5 people and they end up becoming, at least, acquaintances. People talking like he had to have made connections with dozens of people. Wow, I feel dumb for not looking myself.

Originally Posted by casebro

Could a paternity test vis-a-vis rape, be considered testifying against your self, and be in-admissible in criminal court? Hmm, better get it in writing from the DA first I suppose. Bargaining chip would be child support vs daddy getting a criminal record.

I'm not sure what you're asking here, are you asking if the paternity test would be thrown out in a trial because it would be considered testifying against yourself? If that's what you're asking, no. First, it wouldn't matter because Barnes admitted to being the father in public record (the Fox Digital interview), where he also admitted to the statutory rape. Secondly, I don't believe he was forced to take the paternity test. It's conflicting right now, but either he was requested to and complied without any argument, or he volunteered to do it. Either one would make it still acceptable evidence in trial. At least I can't think of anyway that it wouldn't be allowed.

Warp12 · 24th June 2022, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

Haha really? Then...yeah. It's totally beyond belief that a guy makes a website for a department with 5 people and they end up becoming, at least, acquaintances. People talking like he had to have made connections with dozens of people. Wow, I feel dumb for not looking myself.

If you think you feel dumb, imagine how dumb this woman must feel for filing a report 10 years after-the-fact, and being so apathetic about her pursuit of "justice".

"I waited 10 years and then filed a report with the local Police department of five people. Then I didn't say another word for seven years."

Humorous, in a way. Curious, for certain.

sarge · 24th June 2022, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

If you think you feel dumb, imagine how dumb this woman must feel for filing a report 10 years after-the-fact, and being so apathetic about her pursuit of "justice".

"I waited 10 years and then filed a report with the local Police department of five people. Then I didn't say another word for seven years."

Humorous, in a way. Curious, for certain.

Absent a victim-shaming motive, you might have said she feels regret instead of stupidity.

plague311 · 24th June 2022, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

If you think you feel dumb, imagine how dumb this woman must feel for filing a report 10 years after-the-fact, and being so apathetic about her pursuit of "justice".

"I waited 10 years and then filed a report with the local Police department of five people. Then I didn't say another word for seven years."

Humorous, in a way. Curious, for certain.

I would agree, but per her statement she made multiple phone calls, emails, and requests with the department to get an update on her case. She didn't just make the report and then **** off for the rest of time. Although, we can't trust her word though, amiright? ******* split tails don't get to be believed around here, Warp12 will make sure of that!

After a few years I'd assume that she accepted the fact that no one really cared about what happened to her. Like many others I assume she felt betrayed and wasn't sure what her options were, considering she didn't know what they were in the first place.

I don't blame her for that, many people don't know the laws in the locations they live in. And, of course, if she's treated by the police the way people like you are talking about her then I'd guess she gave up quicker. Something about being told you're a lying, community bicycle, that had it coming would probably deter her from expecting any help.

Warp12 · 24th June 2022, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

I would agree, but per her statement she made multiple phone calls, emails, and requests with the department to get an update on her case. She didn't just make the report and then **** off for the rest of time.

Come on, man. Seven years.

There are two possibilities: A) She is a complete idiot. B) She is pretty selective about when and where she makes the situation with the father an issue.

I'm suggesting option "B" sounds more plausible.

plague311 · 24th June 2022, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Come on, man. Seven years.

There are two possibilities: A) She is a complete idiot. B) She is pretty selective about when she makes the situation with the father an issue.

I'm suggesting option "B" sounds more plausible.

I don't care what you suggest, because I've seen your statements about her and other women. Seriously, don't bother.

Warp12 · 24th June 2022, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Come on, man. Seven years.

There are two possibilities: A) She is a complete idiot. B) She is pretty selective about when and where she makes the situation with the father an issue.

I'm suggesting option "B" sounds more plausible.

Originally Posted by plague311

I don't care what you suggest, because I've seen your statements about her and other women. Seriously, don't bother.

That's one way to avoid addressing the issue at hand, I guess. Odd to start, but then stop so suddenly, though. No problem. I will mark this as "done debating Plague311 on this topic, for the day".

plague311 · 24th June 2022, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

That's one way to avoid addressing the issue at hand, I guess. Odd to start, but then stop so suddenly, though. No problem. I will mark this as "done debating Plague311 ~~on this topic~~, for ~~the day~~ good".

You could do us both a favor.

I don't need to address it, especially with you. You've made your point very clear. You actively refuse to believe anything she's said, you handwave away evidence that conflicts with your misogyny, and you have made it clear time and time again that you have absolutely no respect for women.

Don't debate with me, I don't care. Don't debate with me, ever. I'm also fine with that. We have nothing to talk about. It's that simple.

lionking · 24th June 2022, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Come on, man. Seven years.

There are two possibilities: A) She is a complete idiot. B) She is pretty selective about when and where she makes the situation with the father an issue.

I'm suggesting option "B" sounds more plausible.

What about C) the Hicksville PD is incompetent or corrupt?

Not everyone is capable or willing to take on a police department, even a ridiculous one. She lived in a small, no doubt close knit town where she probably knew the rapist’s connection to the police.

Warp12 · 24th June 2022, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Come on, man. Seven years.

There are two possibilities: A) She is a complete idiot. B) She is pretty selective about when and where she makes the situation with the father an issue.

I'm suggesting option "B" sounds more plausible.

Originally Posted by lionking

What about C) the Hicksville PD is incompetent or corrupt?

Not everyone is capable or willing to take on a police department, even a ridiculous one. She lived in a small, no doubt close knit town where she probably knew the rapist’s connection to the police.

Well, was she confined to that town? Unable to travel beyond it's limits or use the phone? Internet access confined to the city limits? I swear, everyone around here is quick to point out idiocy or holes in a story...but this woman gets every pass in the book. That's why some say the SI & Politics sections are where critical thought goes to die, I suppose.

lionking · 24th June 2022, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Well, was she confined to that town? Unable to travel beyond it's limits or use the phone? Internet access confined to the city limits? I swear, everyone around here is quick to point out idiocy or holes in a story...but this woman gets every pass in the book. That's why some say the SI & Politics sections are where critical thought goes to die, I suppose.

And you take every opportunity to belittle a victim of rape and excuse a rapist. Well done you.

johnny karate · 24th June 2022, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Well, was she confined to that town? Unable to travel beyond it's limits or use the phone? Internet access confined to the city limits? I swear, everyone around here is quick to point out idiocy or holes in a story...but this woman gets every pass in the book. That's why some say the SI & Politics sections are where critical thought goes to die, I suppose.

Driving to the next town over to report a crime in another jurisdiction isn't a thing.

Also, his untrustworthiness doesn't stem from any potential holes in his story, but rather the fact that he raped an underage girl. Like all scumbag men who have sex with or condone sex with children, his untrustworthiness stems from a lack of morals.

smartcooky · 24th June 2022, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Come on, man. Seven years.

There are ~~two~~ several possibilities: A) She is a complete idiot. B) She is pretty selective about when and where she makes the situation with the father an issue.

C) she was 16 and didn't know the law, and didn't know what her options were.
D) she was traumatized by what happened.
E) She didn't want to share her trauma with unsympathetic strangers.
F) She was threatened to keep her mouth shut.
G) she was drugged with rohypnol, GHB or some other date rape drug and is vague about the details.
H) she was drunk and thought she might be in trouble for that.

If the attitude of the local, small town cops to rape victims is anything like yours, its no small wonder she didn't want to face the humiliation of talking to them.

Warp12 · 24th June 2022, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

C) she was 16 and didn't know the law, and didn't know what her options were.
D) she was traumatized by what happened.
E) She didn't want to share her trauma with unsympathetic strangers.
F) She was threatened to keep her mouth shut.
G) she was drugged with rohypnol, GHB or some other date rape drug and is vague about the details.
H) she was drunk and thought she might be in trouble for that.

If the attitude of the local, small town cops to rape victims is anything like yours, its no small wonder she didn't want to face the humiliation of talking to them.

I was referring to the seven years after she reported it. Not just the initial 10 years she waited to make a report. Good creative writing points for the above, though! Threats and roofies, baby! Add 'em to the story!

shuttlt · 25th June 2022, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by sarge

Absent a victim-shaming motive, you might have said she feels regret instead of stupidity.

Sarge, why the tone policing on this issue? The forum has been robust in the language it has used to describe all sorts of people, from alternative medicine practitioners whose children have died through lack of treatment, to anti-vaxers who supposedly repented on their deathbeds. My recollection is that their has been a certain amount of self-righteousness from the forum in the handling of all sorts of people. Why should this class of person be treated with kid gloves? There is nothing in atheism or scepticism that makes such people special. Is this just an appeal to progressive morality?

johnny karate · 25th June 2022, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Sarge, why the tone policing on this issue? The forum has been robust in the language it has used to describe all sorts of people, from alternative medicine practitioners whose children have died through lack of treatment, to anti-vaxers who supposedly repented on their deathbeds. My recollection is that their has been a certain amount of self-righteousness from the forum in the handling of all sorts of people. Why should this class of person be treated with kid gloves? There is nothing in atheism or scepticism that makes such people special. Is this just an appeal to progressive morality?

“Victims of rape should be treated like anti-vaxxers” is quite the take.

bluesjnr · 25th June 2022, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

“Victims of rape should be treated like anti-vaxxers” is quite the take.

Can you please link the post you are quoting here? I can't find it in this thread.

23rd June 2022, 08:05 AM	#761
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 102,456	Originally Posted by plague311 I wonder what this means in the grand scheme of things: It makes me feel even more sorry for the daughter. It truly seems like she's in the middle of this and I can't imagine that can be fun. Now she's living with neither parent and she has to understand the legal things that will be coming at her. I guess we'll find out if the rape\abuse allegations are true or not, since she won't be getting guidance from either parent. Good for her. "They **** you up, your mum and dad." - Philip Larkin - if it wasn't poetry, it would be about the best summary and advice going.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

23rd June 2022, 08:08 AM	#762
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,716	Originally Posted by Darat "They **** you up, your mum and dad." - Philip Larkin - if it wasn't poetry, it would be about the best summary and advice going. It's spot on in this case. The more I read, the more I'm convinced neither of them should have a dog, let alone a child. One thing I haven't looked up, I wonder if the father has any other children? We've seen how some have labeled the mother "the village bicycle" and the father claims she's had several men sleeping over, but what's this guys' deal? How come his relationships haven't been thrust front and center? I mean, he obviously makes poor decisions. Best case scenario he had unprotected sex with a woman he met in a bar while in his 30s. I'd imagine she's not the only one.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

23rd June 2022, 08:52 AM	#763
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Home. Posts: 9,749	Originally Posted by plague311 This statement made me laugh so ***** hard. You're all like, "This is overblown to me" and then blow every single statement possibly said in relation to his "control" over the police, out of proportion. By a couple fold. No one has even implied anything close to what you're claiming in this long, out of proportion hyperbole. Seriously though, I haven't laughed that hard in so long. Oh man. Just classic. Anyway, what some have claimed here is that since he's worked hand-in-hand (building a website, not sure what the you're bring up flyers for, but whatever) then friendships easily could have been formed. It's not some complicated, *** Scarlet Witch level sorcery. It's normal, basic human interaction. The more time you spend with someone, the more time you chat it up, you get to know them, and sometimes those people are in positions of power. I mean, how the ** is this confusing people? Do I think there was a massive cover-up? No. There doesn't have to be. For all the screaming of "wE hAVe 2 B teH sKepTICS" I seriously thought something as simple as forming a friendship wouldn't have to be explained so thoroughly. It seems to me that, on the one hand, you are dismissing any level whatsoever of "control" as laughable and hyperbolic then, on the other, going on to explain how Barnes might have been able to exert some level of "control" via a friendship or long term association. You pour scorn on one theory then advance yours. That's how it reads to me, so I'm one of those "confused people". Can you assist and clear the fug ?
	__________________ Last edited by bluesjnr; 23rd June 2022 at 09:07 AM.

23rd June 2022, 09:10 AM	#764
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,716	Originally Posted by bluesjnr It seems to me that, on the one hand, you are dismissing any level whatsoever of "control" as laughable and hyperbolic then, on the other, going on to explain how Barnes might have been able to exert some level of "control" via a friendship or long term association. You pour scorn on one theory to advance another. That's how it reads to me, so I'm one of those "confused people". Can you assist and clear the fug ? Absolutely. You see, there's a difference between "passive" and "active" when it comes to the claimed "control". What cmikes, and warp12 have claimed is that people here are saying Barnes is some kind of "puppet master" with "Svengali-like" control. When really, no one has ever said that. No one has ever even claimed anything relatively close to either one of those. Barnes didn't need to have that level of "control" is the entire point I'm making. In fact, the extent of his "control" could be nothing more than being friends with multiple people in the department that was a result of his working with the police department to create a website (I'm sure he did them for more than just the police since it's a small town, but I digress). The result of that friendship could have caused police, including possibly the chief, to just...ignore the accusations against him because they knew him, they were friends, he wouldn't do that. That's not some grand ******* conspiracy, it's not some magical control over the department, it's just good ol' boys ignoring claims against one of their friends. Which I seriously felt was clear by the descriptions in the story. His ins at the police department got him special consideration. I hope that helped.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

23rd June 2022, 09:13 AM	#765
TheGoldcountry Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 6,800	Originally Posted by shuttlt This is the modern world. We want to be able to live like libertines, undermine any social taboos or censure, but also be free from consequences, regret, people doing bad things and act like outraged puritans when consequences occur. A culture that is outraged about a 16 year old having sex shouldn't simultaneously be doing sex-positive sex ed to pre-teens. We want to have our cake, and eat it, and not get fat or feel bad or have anybody judge us. ] What a load of puritanical crap. Equating sex ed to having unprotected sex between minors and adults is like comparing driver's ed to advocating street racing. Get a ******* grip.
	__________________ I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten I sometimes think the Bible was inspired by Satan to make God look bad. And then it backfired on Him when He underestimated the stupidity of religious ideologues. -MontagK505

23rd June 2022, 09:27 AM	#766
cmikes Muse Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 609	Originally Posted by sarge I have engaged in many, many casual sexual encounters. Really, a lot of them. Never once was I in a situation where it was conceivable that the girls was sufficiently young enough to approach the AOC, nor did I ever need to check an ID. I consider it possible, but not remotely likely that the guy in this case did not know the girl was at least possibly under age. And in that circumstance, you don’t proceed unless you just want to hook up with inappropriately young girls. If it occurs to you that you need to see an ID, you are just looking for plausible deniability. It's probably a good thing for me then that I never was into the hookup scene. If I had met a woman drinking in a bar after being carded by the bartender, it would never even occur to me that she might be underage. Maybe it's just because I was never a part of that culture that it seems weird.
cmikes Muse Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 609

23rd June 2022, 09:30 AM	#767
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,029	Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry What a load of puritanical crap. Equating sex ed to having unprotected sex between minors and adults is like comparing driver's ed to advocating street racing. Get a ******* grip. I didn't compare sex ed to having unprotected sex between minors and adults.
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,029

23rd June 2022, 09:46 AM	#768
cmikes Muse Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 609	Originally Posted by plague311 This statement made me laugh so ***** hard. You're all like, "This is overblown to me" and then blow every single statement possibly said in relation to his "control" over the police, out of proportion. By a couple fold. No one has even implied anything close to what you're claiming in this long, out of proportion hyperbole. Seriously though, I haven't laughed that hard in so long. Oh man. Just classic. Anyway, what some have claimed here is that since he's worked hand-in-hand (building a website, not sure what the you're bring up flyers for, but whatever) then friendships easily could have been formed. It's not some complicated, *** Scarlet Witch level sorcery. It's normal, basic human interaction. The more time you spend with someone, the more time you chat it up, you get to know them, and sometimes those people are in positions of power. I mean, how the ** is this confusing people? Do I think there was a massive cover-up? No. There doesn't have to be. For all the screaming of "wE hAVe 2 B teH sKepTICS" I seriously thought something as simple as forming a friendship wouldn't have to be explained so thoroughly. Yeah, I was wrong on the posters thing. I saw "Graphics designer" in one of the news stories and was thinking "guy from Staples", not web designer. But to your point, how likely is the web designer for a small police department to know the officers and more importantly the judges that work in the court system? I would think that sort of thing would be arranged by the city manager or administrator or whatever. Would he even work on site and meet any of these people? Maybe you're right and these guys are all best buds and hang out together on the weekends but we haven't seen any evidence of this. I think a much more likely explanation is that false or exaggerated claims are very often made in child support and custody cases on both sides and the judge is aware of this and so is skeptical of claims made without any evidence and almost a decade after the fact. It's entirely possible I'm wrong. Maybe someone will bring forth Facebook posts or whatever of Barnes posting "Hey, just going out drinking with my friend the judge" or whatever. If that happens I'll change my opinion accordingly, but until then a judge being skeptical of claims made without evidence in a custody/child support dispute isn't very surprising.
cmikes Muse Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 609

23rd June 2022, 09:59 AM	#769
cmikes Muse Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 609	Originally Posted by plague311 It's spot on in this case. The more I read, the more I'm convinced neither of them should have a dog, let alone a child. One thing I haven't looked up, I wonder if the father has any other children? We've seen how some have labeled the mother "the village bicycle" and the father claims she's had several men sleeping over, but what's this guys' deal? How come his relationships haven't been thrust front and center? I mean, he obviously makes poor decisions. Best case scenario he had unprotected sex with a woman he met in a bar while in his 30s. I'd imagine she's not the only one. As much as we may disagree about other aspects of the case, I'm one hundred percent in agreement with the above.
cmikes Muse Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 609

23rd June 2022, 10:25 AM	#770
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,716	Originally Posted by cmikes But to your point, how likely is the web designer for a small police department to know the officers and more importantly the judges that work in the court system? I would think that sort of thing would be arranged by the city manager or administrator or whatever. Would he even work on site and meet any of these people? Maybe you're right and these guys are all best buds and hang out together on the weekends but we haven't seen any evidence of this. Anything is possible. I don't know how this specific county\city works, but I do have experience doing IT for 2 sheriff's offices in small town MN, and ND. Perhaps the city manager might handle taking bids or quotes for the cost of the build, but I can't imagine the higher ups at the sheriff's dept. wouldn't be sitting down and talking about how they'd like the site to look. The person to have that talk with would be the project manager, which as the owner, I'd imagine Barnes was. Again, to throw your hyperbole out the window, no one is claiming they're best buds. Having a friendship can be just that and it can be enough to sway a decision. They don't have to be lovers in the night for someone to let their impression of that person sway their actions. Originally Posted by cmikes I think a much more likely explanation is that false or exaggerated claims are very often made in child support and custody cases on both sides and the judge is aware of this and so is skeptical of claims made without any evidence and almost a decade after the fact. Like all of the things he took as fact from the father? I mean, it certainly seems like he won't accept anything the mother says, even when there is evidence (like a hospital saying there was forced sex with regards to the daughter), which he dismissed without any reasoning given. Without any known evidence he turned the daughter over to the father because the father said the mother gave the daughter a phone. How about the father telling the judge the mother has guys sleep over? How could the father possibly prove that? He couldn't, but it didn't stop the judge from ruling using that statement as fact. So, sure. Odd that he only seems to be concerned about evidence when the mother is making a claim, isn't it? Originally Posted by cmikes It's entirely possible I'm wrong. Maybe someone will bring forth Facebook posts or whatever of Barnes posting "Hey, just going out drinking with my friend the judge" or whatever. If that happens I'll change my opinion accordingly, but until then a judge being skeptical of claims made without evidence in a custody/child support dispute isn't very surprising. Again with this **. Stop. I don't know who you think this is fooling, but my guess is no one. No one has said they're drinking buddies, best friends, etc. The only one implying that is you. Literally, you, that's it. I don't know how the ** you think it's helping you make your point, but you can seriously save it.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

23rd June 2022, 10:26 AM	#771
sarge Philosopher Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 8,412	Originally Posted by cmikes It's probably a good thing for me then that I never was into the hookup scene. If I had met a woman drinking in a bar after being carded by the bartender, it would never even occur to me that she might be underage. Maybe it's just because I was never a part of that culture that it seems weird. I’ve seen hundreds of girls in bars that could easily be underage, drinking. I’d never get so far into a conversation with them that their ID would become an issue. I still dislike the LA law. I would prefer that the US have universal laws for some things. A person may join the Army at 17. A person may join the Army at 30. It isn’t likely, but it is possible that a 30 year old private may be under the direct supervision of a 17 year old Corporal. If they hook up on base, the 17 year old may be guilty of a crime for having sex with a subordinate. If the hook-up happens off-base in the same general locale, the 30 year old might be guilty of rape (yes, I am assuming an AOC of 18).
	__________________ My previous signature risked (unknowingly) violating the Hatch Act!

23rd June 2022, 10:30 AM	#772
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,029	Originally Posted by sarge I’ve seen hundreds of girls in bars that could easily be underage, drinking. I’d never get so far into a conversation with them that their ID would become an issue. Are you sure? I mean, unless you are checking all the girls IDs, maybe some of the ones you don't think could be underage actually are...?
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,029

23rd June 2022, 10:33 AM	#773
TheGoldcountry Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 6,800	Originally Posted by shuttlt I didn't compare sex ed to having unprotected sex between minors and adults. You're right. You said that "we" (taking big liberties with "we" there) all want to live like libertines, with no consequences for our actions, which means we can't complain about 16 year-olds having babies. Which is pure crap.
	__________________ I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten I sometimes think the Bible was inspired by Satan to make God look bad. And then it backfired on Him when He underestimated the stupidity of religious ideologues. -MontagK505

23rd June 2022, 10:41 AM	#774
sarge Philosopher Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 8,412	Originally Posted by shuttlt Are you sure? I mean, unless you are checking all the girls IDs, maybe some of the ones you don't think could be underage actually are...? I am sure. I’m not attracted to girls of any age that could reasonably be confused for a 21 year old. I do not believe it remotely likely that a 30 year old man will legitimately confuse a 16 year old girl for a 24 year old woman, even if she is drinking in a bar. If he asks for an ID, he is looking for deniability. It is possible to confuse a 16 year old girl for an 18 year old young lady (or maybe a 20 year old) but not without having significant doubt as to her age.
	__________________ My previous signature risked (unknowingly) violating the Hatch Act!

23rd June 2022, 11:09 AM	#775
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,029	Originally Posted by sarge I am sure. I’m not attracted to girls of any age that could reasonably be confused for a 21 year old. I do not believe it remotely likely that a 30 year old man will legitimately confuse a 16 year old girl for a 24 year old woman, even if she is drinking in a bar. If he asks for an ID, he is looking for deniability. It is possible to confuse a 16 year old girl for an 18 year old young lady (or maybe a 20 year old) but not without having significant doubt as to her age. But you haven't actually tested your judgement? I haven't checked either, but if you look at some makeup transformation videos... given the lighting in a bar and a bit of alcohol... I am less confident than you are.
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,029

23rd June 2022, 11:23 AM	#776
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,029	Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry You're right. You said that "we" (taking big liberties with "we" there) all want to live like libertines, with no consequences for our actions, which means we can't complain about 16 year-olds having babies. Which is pure crap. I do think we have two contradictory impulses. We want to have freedom, but we do not expect to have consequences. The previous system where there were societal taboos sought to prevent situations arising at the cost of freedom. That has been replaced by a system where the state comes in to clean up after things have gone wrong. To my mind if we are going to be chill and say "teens are going to be having sex anyway" and do sex-positive sex-ed to young children, then we clearly aren't that fussed with kids having sex. Then turning around and acting shocked and appalled when a 16 year old lies about their age and has sex with a 30 year old seems contradictory to me. I thought sex was positive and not damaging? We undermine our outrage with all the sex positive messaging to kids. I think the whole of society is too sexualised, so I'm going in a whole other direction here.
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,029

23rd June 2022, 11:45 AM	#777
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,716	Originally Posted by shuttlt I do think we have two contradictory impulses. We want to have freedom, but we do not expect to have consequences. The previous system where there were societal taboos sought to prevent situations arising at the cost of freedom. That has been replaced by a system where the state comes in to clean up after things have gone wrong. To my mind if we are going to be chill and say "teens are going to be having sex anyway" and do sex-positive sex-ed to young children, then we clearly aren't that fussed with kids having sex. Then turning around and acting shocked and appalled when a 16 year old lies about their age and has sex with a 30 year old seems contradictory to me. I thought sex was positive and not damaging? We undermine our outrage with all the sex positive messaging to kids. I think the whole of society is too sexualised, so I'm going in a whole other direction here. You're just completely disregarding the fact that she said it wasn't consensual? I know, I know. We don't have "evidence" and the "timing is convenient" and "wE hAvE 2 b tEh SKepTIcs" and all, but that kind of seems like a huge thing you've decided to leave out. She didn't lie about her age in order to **** a 30 year old, though I'm sure you'll say something like, "We don't know that!", as nonsensical as that will be. She lied to hang out in a bar. Sex is damaging when one party doesn't want to be sexed in the first place. Sex is fine. It's enjoyable, it's fun, but that doesn't mean that's always the case.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

23rd June 2022, 01:25 PM	#778
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 15,455	Originally Posted by shuttlt I do think we have two contradictory impulses. We want to have freedom, but we do not expect to have consequences. The previous system where there were societal taboos sought to prevent situations arising at the cost of freedom. That has been replaced by a system where the state comes in to clean up after things have gone wrong. To my mind if we are going to be chill and say "teens are going to be having sex anyway" and do sex-positive sex-ed to young children, then we clearly aren't that fussed with kids having sex. Then turning around and acting shocked and appalled when a 16 year old lies about their age and has sex with a 30 year old seems contradictory to me. I thought sex was positive and not damaging? We undermine our outrage with all the sex positive messaging to kids. I think the whole of society is too sexualised, so I'm going in a whole other direction here. "If we provide sex education to children, it should be okay to **** them" is quite the take.

23rd June 2022, 02:42 PM	#779
TheGoldcountry Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 6,800	Originally Posted by johnny karate "If we provide sex education to children, it should be okay to **** them" is quite the take. I love this country. It's seen as perfectly normal to teach children how to shoot guns, and nobody freaks out and thinks they're going to be crazed killers, but teach teenagers about their bodies so they have realistic and healthy attitudes about sex? Well, that's the devil's work, son!
	__________________ I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten I sometimes think the Bible was inspired by Satan to make God look bad. And then it backfired on Him when He underestimated the stupidity of religious ideologues. -MontagK505

23rd June 2022, 03:36 PM	#780
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,885	Originally Posted by plague311 Anything is possible. I don't know how this specific county\city works, but I do have experience doing IT for 2 sheriff's offices in small town MN, and ND. Perhaps the city manager might handle taking bids or quotes for the cost of the build, but I can't imagine the higher ups at the sheriff's dept. wouldn't be sitting down and talking about how they'd like the site to look. The person to have that talk with would be the project manager, which as the owner, I'd imagine Barnes was. Again, to throw your hyperbole out the window, no one is claiming they're best buds. Having a friendship can be just that and it can be enough to sway a decision. They don't have to be lovers in the night for someone to let their impression of that person sway their actions. Like all of the things he took as fact from the father? I mean, it certainly seems like he won't accept anything the mother says, even when there is evidence (like a hospital saying there was forced sex with regards to the daughter), which he dismissed without any reasoning given. Without any known evidence he turned the daughter over to the father because the father said the mother gave the daughter a phone. How about the father telling the judge the mother has guys sleep over? How could the father possibly prove that? He couldn't, but it didn't stop the judge from ruling using that statement as fact. So, sure. Odd that he only seems to be concerned about evidence when the mother is making a claim, isn't it? Again with this **. Stop. I don't know who you think this is fooling, but my guess is no one. No one has said they're drinking buddies, best friends, etc. The only one implying that is you. Literally, you, that's it. I don't know how the ** you think it's helping you make your point, but you can seriously save it. When I looked up that police department’s website it listed five staff. It’s entirely likely Barnes knew and interacted with every one of them.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

23rd June 2022, 03:38 PM	#781
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,885	Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry I love this country. It's seen as perfectly normal to teach children how to shoot guns, and nobody freaks out and thinks they're going to be crazed killers, but teach teenagers about their bodies so they have realistic and healthy attitudes about sex? Well, that's the devil's work, son! Indeed. This thread is illuminating in more ways than one.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

23rd June 2022, 05:00 PM	#782
casebro Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 19,427	Could a paternity test vis-a-vis rape, be considered testifying against your self, and be in-admissible in criminal court? Hmm, better get it in writing from the DA first I suppose. Bargaining chip would be child support vs daddy getting a criminal record.
	__________________ Any sufficiently advanced idea is indistinguishable from idiocy to those who don't actually understanding the concept.

23rd June 2022, 05:21 PM	#783
sarge Philosopher Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 8,412	Originally Posted by casebro Could a paternity test vis-a-vis rape, be considered testifying against your self, and be in-admissible in criminal court? Hmm, better get it in writing from the DA first I suppose. Bargaining chip would be child support vs daddy getting a criminal record. Generally, collecting a dna sample for investigative purposes requires a warrant unless the sample has been abandoned or left some place where no expectation of privacy exists.
	__________________ My previous signature risked (unknowingly) violating the Hatch Act!

24th June 2022, 06:30 AM	#784
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,716	Originally Posted by lionking When I looked up that police department’s website it listed five staff. It’s entirely likely Barnes knew and interacted with every one of them. Haha really? Then...yeah. It's totally beyond belief that a guy makes a website for a department with 5 people and they end up becoming, at least, acquaintances. People talking like he had to have made connections with dozens of people. Wow, I feel dumb for not looking myself. Originally Posted by casebro Could a paternity test vis-a-vis rape, be considered testifying against your self, and be in-admissible in criminal court? Hmm, better get it in writing from the DA first I suppose. Bargaining chip would be child support vs daddy getting a criminal record. I'm not sure what you're asking here, are you asking if the paternity test would be thrown out in a trial because it would be considered testifying against yourself? If that's what you're asking, no. First, it wouldn't matter because Barnes admitted to being the father in public record (the Fox Digital interview), where he also admitted to the statutory rape. Secondly, I don't believe he was forced to take the paternity test. It's conflicting right now, but either he was requested to and complied without any argument, or he volunteered to do it. Either one would make it still acceptable evidence in trial. At least I can't think of anyway that it wouldn't be allowed.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

24th June 2022, 08:20 AM	#785
Warp12 King of Kings Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 5,522	Originally Posted by plague311 Haha really? Then...yeah. It's totally beyond belief that a guy makes a website for a department with 5 people and they end up becoming, at least, acquaintances. People talking like he had to have made connections with dozens of people. Wow, I feel dumb for not looking myself. If you think you feel dumb, imagine how dumb this woman must feel for filing a report 10 years after-the-fact, and being so apathetic about her pursuit of "justice". "I waited 10 years and then filed a report with the local Police department of five people. Then I didn't say another word for seven years." Humorous, in a way. Curious, for certain.
	__________________ “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

24th June 2022, 08:38 AM	#786
sarge Philosopher Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 8,412	Originally Posted by Warp12 If you think you feel dumb, imagine how dumb this woman must feel for filing a report 10 years after-the-fact, and being so apathetic about her pursuit of "justice". "I waited 10 years and then filed a report with the local Police department of five people. Then I didn't say another word for seven years." Humorous, in a way. Curious, for certain. Absent a victim-shaming motive, you might have said she feels regret instead of stupidity.
	__________________ My previous signature risked (unknowingly) violating the Hatch Act!

24th June 2022, 09:11 AM	#787
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,716	Originally Posted by Warp12 If you think you feel dumb, imagine how dumb this woman must feel for filing a report 10 years after-the-fact, and being so apathetic about her pursuit of "justice". "I waited 10 years and then filed a report with the local Police department of five people. Then I didn't say another word for seven years." Humorous, in a way. Curious, for certain. I would agree, but per her statement she made multiple phone calls, emails, and requests with the department to get an update on her case. She didn't just make the report and then ** off for the rest of time. Although, we can't trust her word though, amiright? ***** split tails don't get to be believed around here, Warp12 will make sure of that! After a few years I'd assume that she accepted the fact that no one really cared about what happened to her. Like many others I assume she felt betrayed and wasn't sure what her options were, considering she didn't know what they were in the first place. I don't blame her for that, many people don't know the laws in the locations they live in. And, of course, if she's treated by the police the way people like you are talking about her then I'd guess she gave up quicker. Something about being told you're a lying, community bicycle, that had it coming would probably deter her from expecting any help.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

24th June 2022, 09:19 AM	#788
Warp12 King of Kings Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 5,522	Originally Posted by plague311 I would agree, but per her statement she made multiple phone calls, emails, and requests with the department to get an update on her case. She didn't just make the report and then **** off for the rest of time. Come on, man. Seven years. There are two possibilities: A) She is a complete idiot. B) She is pretty selective about when and where she makes the situation with the father an issue. I'm suggesting option "B" sounds more plausible.
	__________________ “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

24th June 2022, 09:20 AM	#789
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,716	Originally Posted by Warp12 Come on, man. Seven years. There are two possibilities: A) She is a complete idiot. B) She is pretty selective about when she makes the situation with the father an issue. I'm suggesting option "B" sounds more plausible. I don't care what you suggest, because I've seen your statements about her and other women. Seriously, don't bother.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

24th June 2022, 09:41 AM	#790
Warp12 King of Kings Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 5,522	Originally Posted by Warp12 Come on, man. Seven years. There are two possibilities: A) She is a complete idiot. B) She is pretty selective about when and where she makes the situation with the father an issue. I'm suggesting option "B" sounds more plausible. Originally Posted by plague311 I don't care what you suggest, because I've seen your statements about her and other women. Seriously, don't bother. That's one way to avoid addressing the issue at hand, I guess. Odd to start, but then stop so suddenly, though. No problem. I will mark this as "done debating Plague311 on this topic, for the day".
	__________________ “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

24th June 2022, 09:43 AM	#791
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,716	Originally Posted by Warp12 That's one way to avoid addressing the issue at hand, I guess. Odd to start, but then stop so suddenly, though. No problem. I will mark this as "done debating Plague311 ~~on this topic~~, for ~~the day~~ good". You could do us both a favor. I don't need to address it, especially with you. You've made your point very clear. You actively refuse to believe anything she's said, you handwave away evidence that conflicts with your misogyny, and you have made it clear time and time again that you have absolutely no respect for women. Don't debate with me, I don't care. Don't debate with me, ever. I'm also fine with that. We have nothing to talk about. It's that simple.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

24th June 2022, 09:50 AM	#792
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,885	Originally Posted by Warp12 Come on, man. Seven years. There are two possibilities: A) She is a complete idiot. B) She is pretty selective about when and where she makes the situation with the father an issue. I'm suggesting option "B" sounds more plausible. What about C) the Hicksville PD is incompetent or corrupt? Not everyone is capable or willing to take on a police department, even a ridiculous one. She lived in a small, no doubt close knit town where she probably knew the rapist’s connection to the police.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

24th June 2022, 09:56 AM	#793
Warp12 King of Kings Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 5,522	Originally Posted by Warp12 Come on, man. Seven years. There are two possibilities: A) She is a complete idiot. B) She is pretty selective about when and where she makes the situation with the father an issue. I'm suggesting option "B" sounds more plausible. Originally Posted by lionking What about C) the Hicksville PD is incompetent or corrupt? Not everyone is capable or willing to take on a police department, even a ridiculous one. She lived in a small, no doubt close knit town where she probably knew the rapist’s connection to the police. Well, was she confined to that town? Unable to travel beyond it's limits or use the phone? Internet access confined to the city limits? I swear, everyone around here is quick to point out idiocy or holes in a story...but this woman gets every pass in the book. That's why some say the SI & Politics sections are where critical thought goes to die, I suppose.
	__________________ “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Last edited by Warp12; 24th June 2022 at 10:06 AM.

24th June 2022, 10:00 AM	#794
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,885	Originally Posted by Warp12 Well, was she confined to that town? Unable to travel beyond it's limits or use the phone? Internet access confined to the city limits? I swear, everyone around here is quick to point out idiocy or holes in a story...but this woman gets every pass in the book. That's why some say the SI & Politics sections are where critical thought goes to die, I suppose. And you take every opportunity to belittle a victim of rape and excuse a rapist. Well done you.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

24th June 2022, 10:57 AM	#795
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 15,455	Originally Posted by Warp12 Well, was she confined to that town? Unable to travel beyond it's limits or use the phone? Internet access confined to the city limits? I swear, everyone around here is quick to point out idiocy or holes in a story...but this woman gets every pass in the book. That's why some say the SI & Politics sections are where critical thought goes to die, I suppose. Driving to the next town over to report a crime in another jurisdiction isn't a thing. Also, his untrustworthiness doesn't stem from any potential holes in his story, but rather the fact that he raped an underage girl. Like all scumbag men who have sex with or condone sex with children, his untrustworthiness stems from a lack of morals.