Tesla's Money Furnace

Solitaire · 23rd June 2022, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Musk Says Tesla's Factories In Berlin And Texas Are 'Gigantic Money Furnaces'

Tesla's newest car factories in Texas and Berlin are losing "billions of dollars
right now" as supply chain disruptions hamper the electric vehicle giant's
ability to ramp up production, chief executive Elon Musk said in an interview
published this week.

"Both Berlin and Austin factories are gigantic money furnaces right now.
OK? It should be like a giant roaring sound which is the sound of money
on fire," Musk said in the interview with Tesla Owners Silicon Valley, which
was recorded on May 30 and published Wednesday.

"Berlin and Austin are losing billions of dollars right now because there's
a ton of expense and hardly any output. Getting Berlin and Austin functional
and getting Shanghai back in the saddle fully are overwhelmingly our concerns.
Everything else is a very small thing basically."

Oh, I thought he was talking about crypto. Never mind...

plague311 · 23rd June 2022, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by Solitaire

Oh, I thought he was talking about crypto. Never mind...

He's probably looking for more government bailouts.

TragicMonkey · 23rd June 2022, 07:28 AM

Someone should send him a small submarine to fix the problem.

jimbob · 23rd June 2022, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Someone should send him a small submarine to fix the problem.

Ooof

casebro · 23rd June 2022, 09:22 AM

But didn't I just hear that he shut down his battery factory in Nevada to re-tool for making Boron-graphene batteries? So sure, cash furnaces. Who's running that corporation any how?

dudalb · 23rd June 2022, 12:40 PM

Musk is a classic example of "Enterpuner's Disease" : People who are very good at building up a company from a small one into a big one, but not good at running it on a day to day basis when it becomes a big company. Steve Jobs is a good example.
Of course there are people who are good at both. but the two things seem to require a different set of skills, and everoybody who has one set doen not have the other.

casebro · 23rd June 2022, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Musk is a classic example of "Enterpuner's Disease" : People who are very good at building up a company from a small one into a big one, but not good at running it on a day to day basis when it becomes a big company. Steve Jobs is a good example.
Of course there are people who are good at both. but the two things seem to require a different set of skills, and everoybody who has one set doen not have the other.

Ditto that. Look at the computer industry, DEC and REMEC frinstances.

Roger Ramjets · 23rd June 2022, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Steve Jobs is a good example.

Steve Jobs almost single-handedly made Apple what it is today, and would still be doing so if he hadn't died prematurely. Sure he made some mistakes, but he leaned from them and came back to save the company. Without Jobs, the management who were running it on a day to day basis were running it into the ground.

Time will tell whether Musk can learn from his mistakes. He's a smart guy and a hard worker so I think he will come out of it OK, and hopefully better for it. I was a little bit surprised that it took him this long to wake up to the situation, but then I remembered my own experience as a business owner.

The Great Zaganza · 23rd June 2022, 10:17 PM

Every remotely impartial observer knew that the "Berlin" factory was not going to work out, given the discrepancy between Musk's and Germany's attitude towards Labor Laws.

jeremyp · 24th June 2022, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Steve Jobs almost single-handedly made Apple what it is today, and would still be doing so if he hadn't died prematurely. Sure he made some mistakes, but he leaned from them and came back to save the company. Without Jobs, the management who were running it on a day to day basis were running it into the ground.

Time will tell whether Musk can learn from his mistakes. He's a smart guy and a hard worker so I think he will come out of it OK, and hopefully better for it. I was a little bit surprised that it took him this long to wake up to the situation, but then I remembered my own experience as a business owner.

I think Musk's main problem is that he needs to grow up.

As for Tesla, I would be concerned if I was an investor. This issue with the factories probably isn't a huge deal as long as Musk is not lying about the causes but I would be asking why the CEO has apparently only just noticed it. I'd be asking if the CEO was perhaps distracted by outside affairs like buying a social media platform. I'd probably be thinking the company might be better served with a full time CEO.

I think Tesla is in some serious trouble at the moment, for a couple of reasons.

In 19 years, they have released only five models, none of which have been face-lifted as far as I know. Their next two are subject to serious delays. The truck has been pre-empted by Ford's electric F150 and the new Roadster is really an exotic super car only for people with deep pockets. There's no sign of a replacement for the S, which is twelve years old. In most car manufacturers, the 3 would be due for a face-lift about now. Where is it? There doesn't seem to be any roadmap for future design and development other than the whims of Tesla's CEO.

Other manufacturers are finally getting their act together with respect to BEVs. Tesla is losing its first mover advantage and will get overtaken technically and commercially by others unless their design and development department gets some discipline. The truck situation is probably a sign of things to come. Had they released it when Elon said they would, it would have done very well, I think. Unfortunately, the electric F150 already exists and it has the advantage of looking more like a truck than a Delorean that's eaten too many hamburgers. Teslas are generally the best BEVs now, but in a couple of years time, that will no longer be the case.

Also, the Full Self Driving is set to become a financial liability. The first people who put their money down for that are surely thinking of replacing the car they bought that doesn't yet have it. How pissed off would you be to buy a car with a promised accessory at a substantial premium and not have that accessory five years later?

Tesla has a lot of problems. It will be interesting to see if Elon Musk has the ability to solve them. I suspect he does but that his ego will get in the way.

Darat · 24th June 2022, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Steve Jobs almost single-handedly made Apple what it is today, and would still be doing so if he hadn't died prematurely.
...snip...

Obviously we can never know but his record with Apple wasn't all good. A lot of Apple's success was of course based on him, but so were a lot of their failings.

23rd June 2022, 07:18 AM	#1
Solitaire Neoclinus blanchardi Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,706	Tesla's Money Furnace Quote: Musk Says Tesla's Factories In Berlin And Texas Are 'Gigantic Money Furnaces' Tesla's newest car factories in Texas and Berlin are losing "billions of dollars right now" as supply chain disruptions hamper the electric vehicle giant's ability to ramp up production, chief executive Elon Musk said in an interview published this week. "Both Berlin and Austin factories are gigantic money furnaces right now. OK? It should be like a giant roaring sound which is the sound of money on fire," Musk said in the interview with Tesla Owners Silicon Valley, which was recorded on May 30 and published Wednesday. "Berlin and Austin are losing billions of dollars right now because there's a ton of expense and hardly any output. Getting Berlin and Austin functional and getting Shanghai back in the saddle fully are overwhelmingly our concerns. Everything else is a very small thing basically." Oh, I thought he was talking about crypto. Never mind...
	__________________ Schrodinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

23rd June 2022, 07:19 AM	#2
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,716	Originally Posted by Solitaire Oh, I thought he was talking about crypto. Never mind... He's probably looking for more government bailouts.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

23rd June 2022, 07:28 AM	#3
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 63,196	Someone should send him a small submarine to fix the problem.
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23rd June 2022, 07:57 AM	#4
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 26,062	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Someone should send him a small submarine to fix the problem. Ooof
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

23rd June 2022, 09:22 AM	#5
casebro Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 19,427	But didn't I just hear that he shut down his battery factory in Nevada to re-tool for making Boron-graphene batteries? So sure, cash furnaces. Who's running that corporation any how?
	__________________ Any sufficiently advanced idea is indistinguishable from idiocy to those who don't actually understanding the concept.

23rd June 2022, 12:40 PM	#6
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,448	Musk is a classic example of "Enterpuner's Disease" : People who are very good at building up a company from a small one into a big one, but not good at running it on a day to day basis when it becomes a big company. Steve Jobs is a good example. Of course there are people who are good at both. but the two things seem to require a different set of skills, and everoybody who has one set doen not have the other.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

23rd June 2022, 05:03 PM	#7
casebro Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 19,427	Originally Posted by dudalb Musk is a classic example of "Enterpuner's Disease" : People who are very good at building up a company from a small one into a big one, but not good at running it on a day to day basis when it becomes a big company. Steve Jobs is a good example. Of course there are people who are good at both. but the two things seem to require a different set of skills, and everoybody who has one set doen not have the other. Ditto that. Look at the computer industry, DEC and REMEC frinstances.
	__________________ Any sufficiently advanced idea is indistinguishable from idiocy to those who don't actually understanding the concept.

23rd June 2022, 05:12 PM	#8
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,838	Originally Posted by dudalb Steve Jobs is a good example. Steve Jobs almost single-handedly made Apple what it is today, and would still be doing so if he hadn't died prematurely. Sure he made some mistakes, but he leaned from them and came back to save the company. Without Jobs, the management who were running it on a day to day basis were running it into the ground. Time will tell whether Musk can learn from his mistakes. He's a smart guy and a hard worker so I think he will come out of it OK, and hopefully better for it. I was a little bit surprised that it took him this long to wake up to the situation, but then I remembered my own experience as a business owner.
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

23rd June 2022, 10:17 PM	#9
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 18,032	Every remotely impartial observer knew that the "Berlin" factory was not going to work out, given the discrepancy between Musk's and Germany's attitude towards Labor Laws.
	__________________ "When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." - Emo Philips

24th June 2022, 02:42 AM	#10
jeremyp Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 1,668	Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets Steve Jobs almost single-handedly made Apple what it is today, and would still be doing so if he hadn't died prematurely. Sure he made some mistakes, but he leaned from them and came back to save the company. Without Jobs, the management who were running it on a day to day basis were running it into the ground. Time will tell whether Musk can learn from his mistakes. He's a smart guy and a hard worker so I think he will come out of it OK, and hopefully better for it. I was a little bit surprised that it took him this long to wake up to the situation, but then I remembered my own experience as a business owner. I think Musk's main problem is that he needs to grow up. As for Tesla, I would be concerned if I was an investor. This issue with the factories probably isn't a huge deal as long as Musk is not lying about the causes but I would be asking why the CEO has apparently only just noticed it. I'd be asking if the CEO was perhaps distracted by outside affairs like buying a social media platform. I'd probably be thinking the company might be better served with a full time CEO. I think Tesla is in some serious trouble at the moment, for a couple of reasons. In 19 years, they have released only five models, none of which have been face-lifted as far as I know. Their next two are subject to serious delays. The truck has been pre-empted by Ford's electric F150 and the new Roadster is really an exotic super car only for people with deep pockets. There's no sign of a replacement for the S, which is twelve years old. In most car manufacturers, the 3 would be due for a face-lift about now. Where is it? There doesn't seem to be any roadmap for future design and development other than the whims of Tesla's CEO. Other manufacturers are finally getting their act together with respect to BEVs. Tesla is losing its first mover advantage and will get overtaken technically and commercially by others unless their design and development department gets some discipline. The truck situation is probably a sign of things to come. Had they released it when Elon said they would, it would have done very well, I think. Unfortunately, the electric F150 already exists and it has the advantage of looking more like a truck than a Delorean that's eaten too many hamburgers. Teslas are generally the best BEVs now, but in a couple of years time, that will no longer be the case. Also, the Full Self Driving is set to become a financial liability. The first people who put their money down for that are surely thinking of replacing the car they bought that doesn't yet have it. How pissed off would you be to buy a car with a promised accessory at a substantial premium and not have that accessory five years later? Tesla has a lot of problems. It will be interesting to see if Elon Musk has the ability to solve them. I suspect he does but that his ego will get in the way.

24th June 2022, 02:57 AM	#11
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 102,458	Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets Steve Jobs almost single-handedly made Apple what it is today, and would still be doing so if he hadn't died prematurely. ...snip... Obviously we can never know but his record with Apple wasn't all good. A lot of Apple's success was of course based on him, but so were a lot of their failings.
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