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Old 18th June 2022, 03:46 AM   #1
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British man 62 "raped daughter 33" on Greek island

A British man aged 62 being held in custody has pleaded, 'Not Guilty' to raping his drunken 33-year-old daughter in an alleyway behind bushes nearby a bar in Malia, Crete. The story has only been covered by the tabloids. Greek police claim the daughter described her attacker as 'wearing all white'. When police retrieved the CCTV footage, they noted her father was wearing all white. The daughter claims she told the police it was her father wearing all white, not the attacker. She says she and her father live together and there is no way he would ever do such a thing. He was supposedly back at his hotel room when the attack happened.

Assuming he is innocent, it is a shame he left his drunken daughter to find her own way back, having been seen on the CCTV trying to drag her up from the bar stool and seeming to hit her.

So he has been charged with rape and also domestic violence, for now, until the DNA results come back.


ISTM either the daughter knows it was her father but is frightened of him because of historical domestic violence and thinks now is a good time to report him and put an end to the abuse (whilst seeming to support him, perhaps out of fear of him) or, the Greek police are incompetent, capricious and unbelievably stupid.


Quote:
PICTURED: British father, 62, and daughter, 33, having a boozy night together in a Crete bar hours before he was arrested by Greek police on suspicion of raping her
EXCLUSIVE: Greek police claim CCTV evidence, seen by MailOnline, shows 'inappropriate sexual activity' in a Crete bar between a British father, 62, who is accused of raping his own daughter, 33 on the Greek island
The pair are seen in footage enjoying a boozy night in a bar before alleged attack in a dead-end alleyway
The father and daughter cannot be named for legal reasons, but he denies the accusations and she is staying on the Greek island to support him while insisting that he is ‘100% innocent'
DM
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Old 18th June 2022, 03:51 AM   #2
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Or the investigation is on going….
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Old 18th June 2022, 05:14 AM   #3
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Is there a possibility of DNA evidence proving this one way or the other?

If so, I'll withhold judgement until the DNA tests comes back.
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Old 18th June 2022, 06:24 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Or the investigation is on going….
Not really because the police have already charged him with the crimes.
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Old 18th June 2022, 06:26 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Not really because the police have already charged him with the crimes.
What did the DNA test show?
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Old 18th June 2022, 06:26 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Is there a possibility of DNA evidence proving this one way or the other?

If so, I'll withhold judgement until the DNA tests comes back.
Does DNA prove rape...? Does lack of DNA prove there was no rape...?

Suppose a condom was used and there is no DNA...? Bear in mind rape is not defined by presence of DNA.
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Old 18th June 2022, 06:28 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Does DNA prove rape...? Does lack of DNA prove there was no rape...?

Suppose a condom was used and there is no DNA...? Bear in mind rape is not defined by presence of DNA.
What has the DNA shown?
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Old 18th June 2022, 06:29 AM   #8
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Really thought this title with "raped daughter 33" meant he raped his 33rd daughter, or that "daughter33"was the handle of a popular TicTocker or something
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Old 18th June 2022, 06:40 AM   #9
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Thread title looked rather Daily Mail-esque to me. And of course it is a Daily Mail story.

"Greek Island". Is Crete really that obscure? It seems like referring to Ibiza as a "Spanish Island".
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Old 18th June 2022, 06:40 AM   #10
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The more lurid the initial reporting the less likely it is to be accurate. Particularly when it's a lurid tale of crime and sexual perversion involving foreign visitors to a tourist location.
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Old 18th June 2022, 06:46 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
...the Greek police are incompetent, capricious and unbelievably stupid.


DM
Just the Greek police?

Also, Daily Mail is almost always instant source fail.
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Old 18th June 2022, 07:33 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Does DNA prove rape...? Does lack of DNA prove there was no rape...?

Suppose a condom was used and there is no DNA...? Bear in mind rape is not defined by presence of DNA.
True enough, but DNA surely can show something. Even if it doesn't prove what was done, if there is some, it can prove who did it, and in this case that's a pretty big issue.
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Old 18th June 2022, 08:52 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What has the DNA shown?

From the link:
Quote:
DNA evidence has been sent to Athens for analysis with prosecutors in Crete admitting that they had not ruled out dropping the case if the result proves his innocence.
Also from the link:
Quote:
She told MailOnline earlier this week: 'I can tell you 100% that he did not rape me. I was on holiday with him in Greece and he's the best dad in the world.

'There is no way he would do something so disgusting. I've told the Greek police this, but they are just ignoring me.

I dunno how they can prosecute successfully if the alleged victim is a witness for the defense.

Last edited by Bob001; 18th June 2022 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 18th June 2022, 08:55 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
From the link:


Also from the link:



I dunno how they can prosecute successfully if the alleged victim is a witness for the defense.
Cretan cretins?
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Old 18th June 2022, 09:13 AM   #15
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So if a DNA sample has gone for analysis it kind of puts paid to the question of what if there's no DNA.
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Old 18th June 2022, 09:39 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
So if a DNA sample has gone for analysis it kind of puts paid to the question of what if there's no DNA.
And puts paid to the idea that the investigation is finished.
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Old 18th June 2022, 02:07 PM   #17
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Criminal procedures in the Greek legal system is a lot different from what others here would be mostly used to. AIUI criminal cases normally involve three judges, the Anakritis (the investigative judge), the Eisaggeleas (the prosecuting judge), and Dikastis (the presiding judge)

A person can be arrested on suspicion of committing a crime, charged and held while the investigation is carried out and evidence is collected against them. You must be brought without any delay (usually within a maximum of five days) before an investigative judge, who in this capacity is acting somewhat like the judge in an American arraignment court, in order to present your defence. The investigative judge, with the consent of the public prosecutor, may order your pre-trial detention.
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Old 18th June 2022, 02:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
From the link:


Also from the link:



I dunno how they can prosecute successfully if the alleged victim is a witness for the defense.
Dunno about Greek system, but in US it would be extremely challenging, but not impossible. The DNA would obviously be crucial assuming it tied things to the father. If so, the alleged victim would never be called by the defense, because then they could cross examine her.
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Old 18th June 2022, 02:27 PM   #19
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If the DNA shows sexual contact between the father and daughter, and the daughter has already reported rape, would it be likely in a Greek court that the father is convicted over the objections of the daughter?

There are some strange goings-on out there.
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Old 18th June 2022, 02:30 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
From the link:


Also from the link:



I dunno how they can prosecute successfully if the alleged victim is a witness for the defense.
AIUI Under Greek law consent of the alleged victim is not needed. In England & Wales it used to be the case that a victim of domestic violence had to 'press charges' and often they would not. That law has been changed so police can charge a suspect without needing consent.

From what I can gather here, is that she went to the police to complain of rape. Police accessed CCTV cameras and for some reason - perhaps because the father appeared to be be a bit rough and 'inappropriate' towards her - decided he was the likely attacker and thought that was probable cause to charge him.
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Old 18th June 2022, 02:33 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What has the DNA shown?
Presumably we will not hear of any further evidence until the trial now. Unless police drop the charges.
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Old 18th June 2022, 02:37 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The more lurid the initial reporting the less likely it is to be accurate. Particularly when it's a lurid tale of crime and sexual perversion involving foreign visitors to a tourist location.
There seems to be a popular view that foreign police are bent and Brits are probably innocent if arrested abroad. Not saying that is your view but if this had happened in the UK or the USA would you still think being a citizen abroad was a factor in the arrest because foreign police are a bit dodgy?
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Old 18th June 2022, 04:57 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
There seems to be a popular view that foreign police are bent and Brits are probably innocent if arrested abroad. Not saying that is your view but if this had happened in the UK or the USA would you still think being a citizen abroad was a factor in the arrest because foreign police are a bit dodgy?
I was commenting on the reporting, not the arrest. Those who publish news want it to be read, and will write it to play to the maximum interest. If they think the public feels like you suggest above, they will absolutely write the story to play into that, regardless of the actual events.
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Old 18th June 2022, 05:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
There seems to be a popular view that foreign police are bent and Brits are probably innocent if arrested abroad. Not saying that is your view but if this had happened in the UK or the USA would you still think being a citizen abroad was a factor in the arrest because foreign police are a bit dodgy?
There are two types of people.

British people and foreign people.

Foreign people visit Britain, and British people go to foreign countries and interact with foreign people. Johnny Foreigner even has his own "police" as well. Good heavens!
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Old 18th June 2022, 05:41 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Does DNA prove rape...? Does lack of DNA prove there was no rape...?



Suppose a condom was used and there is no DNA...? Bear in mind rape is not defined by presence of DNA.
Ejaculatory fluids are not the only source of DNA to be found in, on, or around a woman's sex organs after intercourse.
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Old 18th June 2022, 05:42 PM   #26
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' Greek Island ' seems to be the kicker here.. If it was Louisiana, it would have never made the news. well, not for ten years or so, anyway..
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Old 18th June 2022, 07:09 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
There seems to be a popular view that foreign police are bent and Brits are probably innocent if arrested abroad. Not saying that is your view but if this had happened in the UK or the USA would you still think being a citizen abroad was a factor in the arrest because foreign police are a bit dodgy?
Portugal - The McCann Family - nuff said!
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Old 18th June 2022, 08:44 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Does DNA prove rape...? Does lack of DNA prove there was no rape...?

Suppose a condom was used and there is no DNA...? Bear in mind rape is not defined by presence of DNA.
DNA does not prove rape, but the issue here isn't whether a rape occurred, but who did it. In that case, the DNA could very well either rule out the father (if some other person's DNA is found but not the father's DNA) or show that the only DNA present came from her father, in which case it will be very difficult to argue that anyone else did it.

If a condom was used, there might be no DNA but that seems unlikely. Unlikely that a rapist would use a condom, and since the reporting says that a DNA sample was sent to Athens for analysis, unlikely that the rapist's DNA is not present. But we will have to wait for the analysis results, and there's not much point in speculating until those results are made public.
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Old 19th June 2022, 08:20 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
AIUI Under Greek law consent of the alleged victim is not needed. In England & Wales it used to be the case that a victim of domestic violence had to 'press charges' and often they would not. That law has been changed so police can charge a suspect without needing consent.

From what I can gather here, is that she went to the police to complain of rape. Police accessed CCTV cameras and for some reason - perhaps because the father appeared to be be a bit rough and 'inappropriate' towards her - decided he was the likely attacker and thought that was probable cause to charge him.
That has never been the case.
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Old 19th June 2022, 03:56 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
DNA does not prove rape, but the issue here isn't whether a rape occurred, but who did it. In that case, the DNA could very well either rule out the father (if some other person's DNA is found but not the father's DNA) or show that the only DNA present came from her father, in which case it will be very difficult to argue that anyone else did it.

If a condom was used, there might be no DNA but that seems unlikely. Unlikely that a rapist would use a condom, and since the reporting says that a DNA sample was sent to Athens for analysis, unlikely that the rapist's DNA is not present. But we will have to wait for the analysis results, and there's not much point in speculating until those results are made public.
But imagine you are the police and someone complains of a sex attack. You get hold of the CCTV pictures - including the hotel lobby, which would show who comes and goes and at what time - and you see from a footage of the last bar the victim was in. In this footage there is a man dragging her to her feet and seeming to hit and lunge at her in an 'inappropriate way'. He is seen leaving the bar with her.

In this case, the police seem to believe there is enough evidence to charge the man in the CCTV footage with the attack. It doesn't seem to hinge on DNA samples, although I dare say this will be presented at the trial and evaluated for statistical probability.
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Old 19th June 2022, 03:57 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That has never been the case.
The quotation marks indicate a colloquialism.
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Old 19th June 2022, 04:02 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The quotation marks indicate a colloquialism.
Colloquialism or not it has never been the case.
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Old 19th June 2022, 06:19 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Really thought this title with "raped daughter 33" meant he raped his 33rd daughter, or that "daughter33"was the handle of a popular TicTocker or something
I don't get the quotes either.

I also don't know what the ages have to do with it..

I guess when you are making up a topic title you go for the clicks..
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Old 19th June 2022, 07:14 PM   #34
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I expect there's supposed to be a comma between daughter and 33, and listing the ages ensures the rapist is not seen as a pedophile and the daughter is not a young child?
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Old 19th June 2022, 07:25 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
I also don't know what the ages have to do with it..
That's been standard news writing forever. They always put peoples' ages into stories if they know them. It's as inexorably part of written journalism as telling the narrative out of order-- they never, ever start at the beginning, go through the middle, and finish at the end. They always break it up into chunks and tell it out of order because they imagine that draws and keeps attention better. (It doesn't, because nobody reads print journalism any more.)
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Old 19th June 2022, 07:28 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
I expect there's supposed to be a comma between daughter and 33, and listing the ages ensures the rapist is not seen as a pedophile and the daughter is not a young child?
This could be his 33rd daughter without him being a pedophile, but he would certainly have to have multiple wives/baby mamas (or baby papas these days I suppose).
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Old 19th June 2022, 08:13 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
This could be his 33rd daughter without him being a pedophile, but he would certainly have to have multiple wives/baby mamas (or baby papas these days I suppose).
Eleven sets of triplets would do it. Or three sets of 11...not sure there's even a word for that. Google suggests "undenuplets" or "henduplets" but those sound ridiculous, and far too much to expect of any woman one time, much less three times. I think you're being unreasonable. Compromise by having three sets of nonuplets and then one set of sextuplets, as a break. And definitely buy her flowers, she's having a rough five years.
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Old 19th June 2022, 08:31 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
This could be his 33rd daughter without him being a pedophile, but he would certainly have to have multiple wives/baby mamas (or baby papas these days I suppose).
or he could have simply adopted 33 kids...
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Old 19th June 2022, 10:13 PM   #39
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If the father is found to be the culprit, I would wonder if there was already a sexual aspect to their relationship.
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Old 20th June 2022, 02:21 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Colloquialism or not it has never been the case.

From my understanding of domestic violence, there was a time when a victim of such would often tell police they did not want their abusive spouse charged and the police would just go away. The law or the guidelines were changed in recent times so that police are now advised to charge a person even if their victim says they do not wish to bring a complaint, assuming there is adequate evidence to do so.
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