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Tags Florida incidents , shooting incidents , texting incidents

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Old 14th January 2014, 01:02 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I was referring to the possible final outcome, not the initial possible charge.
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
When you're done cheering over another tragedy, maybe we could have some rational discussions?

Ranb
WTF????? Who's cheering over this. Seriously? But please, don't let that stop you from projecting.

Oh, maybe this guy. Feel free to have a rational discussion with someone truly cheering the outcome.
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hey the rude punk got put in his place. That will teach people to be polite to their elders.

An armed society is a polite society he failed politeness and earned the consequences.
How's that for rational?
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Old 14th January 2014, 01:05 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Sure, here's your post:


And here's mine.


So... you buy dioxin (or asbestos) legally and they outlaw it. You haven't used it illegally, and you aren't even going to get compensation. Same thing would happen with guns. And, if you keep illegal items, you are a criminal.

Did the rolly-eyes somehow mean you meant the opposite? I didn't. Was the "dangerous" the adjective that had it make sense? I think I'd call someone who owned illegal guns dangerous, as a kind of general descriptor.
And this is morally wrong. It's essentially legalize theft by the government. There should at the very least compensation equal to original purchase price, adjusted for inflation.

Also dioxin and asbestos are toxins, which makes them dangerous by their very exposure . This is not true of guns. Not sure why anybody would buy dioxin in the first place.

Your final sentence is a straight up catch-22.
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Old 14th January 2014, 01:10 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by I Ratant View Post
.
This from the most used light in the house... do THAT with an incandescent!
In absolute honesty, only one fixture in my house has had a fluorescent of the bulb type in it that lasted as long as incandescents. I assume the LEDs will do better - and as soon as I can get a pack of four of them for no more that double the price of a 4 pack of incandescents I will try them out. Love the flashlights though!!!
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Old 14th January 2014, 01:14 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I've been told an armed society is a polite society. How much less polite are we now that an armed old guy is no longer on the streets shooting people?

Won't somebody think of the children's manners?
Be polite or get shot.
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Old 14th January 2014, 01:15 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Sure, if you need an example of a material object that is dangerous in civilian hands and is restricted because of it, it's almost perfect.
And with a wave of the hand the differences disappear.

Quote:
Yes, I was acknowledging the fact that we could restrict them by way of the material object needed for a gun incident - as opposed to restricting the behavior, which we already do.
You were also saying that it was different for many of my examples where it was not in fact different.

Quote:
What do you envision would be the problems of disallowing gun purchases or ownership? Are these same responsible gun owners willing to become criminals because they like their guns so much? It might be a good way to separate out the truly law abiding from those who may be dangerous.

I owned a few guns. When it became illegal for me to own them I got rid of them. It's not such a big deal. And, not to get too picky, but the guns in question aren't being mishandled. Unlike our hypothetical citizen-owned plutonium, the guns were being used and doing exactly what they were designed to do.
There would be violent insurrection. You seem to be content that people who resist such laws as already being criminals and not worth worrying about. The fact is that a lot of good people would die on all sides, a lot more than do now. It would make the prohibition of alcohol look like a simple, bloodless thing. It would be massively costly in money and blood. It wouldn't be all gun owners of course but enough. You can't hand wave that unlike Plutonium there are valid uses for some segments, easy of production, a huge existing supply, and demand for firearms.

Your example of freeing the slaves is a great one, but the other side would be using it to justify what they view as their civil rights being stomp on. If you truly believe that firearm ownership is an evil on the scale of slavery though, go ahead trying to get the Constitutional Amendment it would take to do so. Keep in mind that it would not only be a waste of time but would actually in all likelihood work against fewer firearm deaths.

I live in a state where the next governor could very well be a right wing Tea party type because of the poorly done SAFE act. People like you are making it very hard to get anything done because you support undoable nonsense like making firearms illegal. The perfect being the enemy of the good. It's no better than the NRA.
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Old 14th January 2014, 01:26 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
There would be violent insurrection. You seem to be content that people who resist such laws as already being criminals and not worth worrying about. The fact is that a lot of good people would die on all sides, a lot more than do now. It would make the prohibition of alcohol look like a simple, bloodless thing. It would be massively costly in money and blood.
You really think so? That NRA slogan, "From my cold dead hands" isn't just hyperbole?

If you are right, it doesn't say anything complementary about gun owners. It paints them as radical zealots. If they are willing to fight and die to protect their guns, I want to get them unarmed even more.

I guess I have more faith in my fellow men than that scenario illustrates.
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Old 14th January 2014, 01:27 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hey don't we need to wait to find out if it was murder or legitimate self defense?
It was murder. If you wonder, check my other posts re guns (I'm for them and carrying them) and self defense (I'm for it). Nothing about this suggests self-defense.
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Old 14th January 2014, 01:28 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
You really think so? That NRA slogan, "From my cold dead hands" isn't just hyperbole?

If you are right, it doesn't say anything complementary about gun owners. It paints them as radical zealots. If they are willing to fight and die to protect their guns, I want to get them unarmed even more.

I guess I have more faith in my fellow men than that scenario illustrates.
If anybody wants an example of confirmation bias, here's a shining one.
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Last edited by Polaris; 14th January 2014 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 14th January 2014, 01:30 PM   #169
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I believe this article has some updated info:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1578945
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Old 14th January 2014, 01:31 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
If anybody wants an example of confirmation bias, here's a shining one.
I'll bite. If guns were illegal to own, would you still own them?
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Old 14th January 2014, 01:34 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I'll bite. If guns were illegal to own, would you still own them?
I won't.
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Old 14th January 2014, 01:43 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I'll bite. If guns were illegal to own, would you still own them?
I certainly wouldn't admit to possessing them.
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Old 14th January 2014, 01:53 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by joesixpack View Post
Why the naive presumption that cops are the picture of mental health? Why would ANYONE assume that achieving a high rank in a police force be proof of a person's trustworthiness?

Maybe because we are constantly assured of this by the very authorities who put them in power over us.

They are supposedly carefully selected and constantly trained and reviewed.
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Old 14th January 2014, 01:57 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Maybe because we are constantly assured of this by the very authorities who put them in power over us.

They are supposedly carefully selected and constantly trained and reviewed.
You should be feeling a little cognitive dissonance by now.
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Old 14th January 2014, 02:10 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The entire culture over there is completely FUBARed.

Rolfe.
Yeah, one poophead is a valid sample size of the thousands of gun owners who DON'T shoot people for no reason.

I thought this was a critical thinking forum but i'm increasingly unimpressed by the actuality. Way to go!
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Old 14th January 2014, 02:13 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hey the rude punk got put in his place. That will teach people to be polite to their elders.
I guess not then.

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Old 14th January 2014, 02:15 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Maybe because we are constantly assured of this by the very authorities who put them in power over us.

They are supposedly carefully selected and constantly trained and reviewed.
Perhaps your understanding of the complexity of human behavior is insufficient.
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Old 14th January 2014, 02:16 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
And this is morally wrong. It's essentially legalize theft by the government. There should at the very least compensation equal to original purchase price, adjusted for inflation
Exactly why the emancipation proclamation was so evil.
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Old 14th January 2014, 02:19 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Exactly why the emancipation proclamation was so evil.
I can't believe you're equating real human lives with mere objects. Way to erase the real tragedy of slavery in this country.
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Old 14th January 2014, 02:20 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Exactly why the emancipation proclamation was so evil.
Because human beings are the same as inanimate objects.

ETA: Ninja'ed.
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Last edited by Polaris; 14th January 2014 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 14th January 2014, 02:20 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
WTF????? Who's cheering over this. Seriously? But please, don't let that stop you from projecting.
Well, you did say it was "A win for gun nuts everywhere." I saw no trace of irony in your post at all. So yeah, sounds like you are suggesting someone is going to be cheering over this.

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Old 14th January 2014, 02:21 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I'll bite. If guns were illegal to own, would you still own them?
If you're interested in the subject, I'd recommend an article from the Wake Forest law review - Imagining Gun Control in America, Understanding the remainder problem, by Nicholas J. Johnson.

Best case scenario for compliance with an outright firearms ban using conservative estimates based on rates of complaince where possession of firearms have been severly restricted or wholly banned, approximately a 400 year supply of firearms and associated items would remain in civilian hands.
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Old 14th January 2014, 02:51 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Be polite or get shot.
Modern western values in a nutshell.

Oh, wait...
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Old 14th January 2014, 02:53 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by joesixpack View Post
You should be feeling a little cognitive dissonance by now.

No. I haven't had that problem in decades. I can still see the rib fractures from billy clubs whenever I get a chest x-ray.

The dissonance is in the law'norder right-wingnut crowd that supports cops at every turn ... until they don't.

I've never been under any delusions about the nobility of cops.
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Old 14th January 2014, 03:02 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
Perhaps your understanding of the complexity of human behavior is insufficient.

Nope. Did you read the question I responded to. It has nothing tho do with the complexity of human behavior. It has to do with; "Why would ANYONE assume that achieving a high rank in a police force be proof of a person's trustworthiness?".

Allegedly the processes which are involved in the selection and training of such a professional are "supposed" to insure that such a person is more dependable.

The process ... we are assured ... exists. That is the response to joesixpack's question. How effective that process is is another question entirely.
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Old 14th January 2014, 03:10 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I can't believe you're equating real human lives with mere objects. Way to erase the real tragedy of slavery in this country.
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Because human beings are the same as inanimate objects.

ETA: Ninja'ed.

That is exactly how they were being treated at the time. Right along with other farm equipment. Emancipation was viewed as a real and substantial "taking" of property. Even by many abolitionists. It was one of the issues that made a legal resolution to the issue of slavery such an intractable one.

Just because we don't (most of us, at any rate) feel that way any more doesn't change anything. If you really want to understand the "real tragedy of slavery in this country" you have to accept this.
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Old 14th January 2014, 03:12 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Nope. Did you read the question I responded to. It has nothing tho do with the complexity of human behavior. It has to do with; "Why would ANYONE assume that achieving a high rank in a police force be proof of a person's trustworthiness?".

Allegedly the processes which are involved in the selection and training of such a professional are "supposed" to insure that such a person is more dependable.

The process ... we are assured ... exists. That is the response to joesixpack's question. How effective that process is is another question entirely.
This guy has been retired since 1993. He is just another crotchety old geezer with a gun looking to put young whipper snappers in their place.

Being a former cop just means he will probably get away with this murder.
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Old 14th January 2014, 03:13 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
No. I haven't had that problem in decades. I can still see the rib fractures from billy clubs whenever I get a chest x-ray.

The dissonance is in the law'norder right-wingnut crowd that supports cops at every turn ... until they don't.

I've never been under any delusions about the nobility of cops.
Sorry, I didn't realize that the post I had responded to was sarcastic. We need a font for that.
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Old 14th January 2014, 03:18 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
And this is morally wrong. It's essentially legalize theft by the government. There should at the very least compensation equal to original purchase price, adjusted for inflation.
Guns are assets that depreciate over time. No one pays the same price for a used gun as they would for a new one. If there is to be compensation, it should be to the tune of 50% of original value and only for those voluntarily turned in. All others will be taken with no compensation.
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Old 14th January 2014, 04:54 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Guns are assets that depreciate over time. No one pays the same price for a used gun as they would for a new one. If there is to be compensation, it should be to the tune of 50% of original value and only for those voluntarily turned in. All others will be taken with no compensation.
Interesting. In a recent issue of Gun Tests they did a test of two .45 auto's that were when sold new going for around 6-700 each (depending on when purchased. The Colt in good condition recently sold for just under 2000.00 and the S&W for about 1300.00. Neither was an antique or particularly special - though both tested fine on accuracy and related. These are not at all anomalies, just well made, fully functional and available - and, in perfect certainty of correct, Obama (even though Obama has done nothing for this to be real/likely). With the add on that crap guns/Saturday Night Specials and such do not appreciate and indeed are near worthless, that does not apply to good condition well made weapons. Only two of my weapons come close to that - one in a failed caliber (still have ammo & it will still damage a cylinder block nicely) and the other is a S&W that the hammer was cut and filed down on so it can't be externally cocked - but since it's the low (for me) powered .38 special it's just a back-up back-up.
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Old 14th January 2014, 04:56 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Guns are assets that depreciate over time. No one pays the same price for a used gun as they would for a new one. If there is to be compensation, it should be to the tune of 50% of original value and only for those voluntarily turned in. All others will be taken with no compensation.
Note, I will turn in none and they will find none when they come for them if they actually do.
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Old 14th January 2014, 04:58 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
Yeah, one poophead is a valid sample size of the thousands of gun owners who DON'T shoot people for no reason.

I thought this was a critical thinking forum but i'm increasingly unimpressed by the actuality. Way to go!

Yeah, that's what they say every single time this happens. No matter how many gun owners shoot people, there are always some who don't, so that's OK then.

Rolfe.
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Old 14th January 2014, 05:00 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
You really think so? That NRA slogan, "From my cold dead hands" isn't just hyperbole?

If you are right, it doesn't say anything complementary about gun owners. It paints them as radical zealots. If they are willing to fight and die to protect their guns, I want to get them unarmed even more.

I guess I have more faith in my fellow men than that scenario illustrates.
No way. We're told that gun owners are law-abiding*. If guns were suddenly illegal, I'm certain these millions of good, law-abiding citizens would obey the law. Right?

*Except this retired cop.

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A list of prohibited items and behavior in their theaters are on the theater website. Among them: no cell phone use, including texting, in the theater auditorium. And no weapons allowed.

Originally Posted by Xulld View Post
I carry every single day and for that am no more responsible for this shooting than you are, but you would take away my ability to fight back against an attacker with my gun and place me on unequal footing with any old psychopath with a weapon of any kind whatsoever, and you call this progress?
Your posts make it look like you live in fear a lot. It must be terrible to go day-to-day engulfed in the fear of a random, deadly attack.

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Old 14th January 2014, 05:07 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
Considering he was an ex cop and it's Florida and now his excuse, I would guess the murderer will get off. A win for gun nuts everywhere.
Not so fast, he's been denied bond:
Quote:
... Police said despite Reeves' claim that he was in fear of his safety, this was not a case for Florida's "stand your ground" defense. ...
Paging the NRA...
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Last edited by MattusMaximus; 14th January 2014 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 14th January 2014, 05:10 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Guns are assets that depreciate over time. No one pays the same price for a used gun as they would for a new one. If there is to be compensation, it should be to the tune of 50% of original value and only for those voluntarily turned in. All others will be taken with no compensation.
You should tell that to everyone who bought a Colt Python in the last 10 years. They seem to under the impression that the value doubled...
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Old 14th January 2014, 05:14 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
One good thing to come out of this might be that annoying people are afraid to take their cellphones into theaters.
Perhaps you should change your signature to say "If I see an annoying person with a cellphone in a theater? I'll kill him."

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Old 14th January 2014, 05:16 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
Perhaps you should change your signature to say "If I see an annoying person with a cellphone in a theater? I'll kill him."

What's the term for "massive solutions for minuscule problems"?
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Old 14th January 2014, 05:17 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Xulld View Post
I don't know about you but I would not describe the story related to us as the officer starting a fight, in fact with the only thing thrown being a bag, or bucket of popcorn I would describe this as a shooting, no fighting took place.
Especially because the shooter left the theater and then went back before a manager or employee could accompany him. Sorry, but if you're armed and pissed off, you don't do that. Hell, in my situation I wasn't even the one involved in the altercation, and I still waited for the theater manager before returning to the movie.

I'm thinking the shooter's toast.
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Old 14th January 2014, 05:19 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Xulld View Post
Arguments are not fighting for the purposes of this conversation.
Exactly.

And besides, even if the shooter "felt threatened", then he should have left the theater, and stayed out of it until he could return with a manager/employee. The first response to being threatened is to get away from the threat, not to kill the guy.
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Old 14th January 2014, 05:24 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
If only this guy had decided to carry a non lethal form of self defense.
Or how about he just walk out of the damn theater and not return until escorted by the appropriate personnel? Nobody forced him to return to the theater; he decided to do that, pissed off and armed with a lethal weapon. The more I think about this, the more I think that the shooter almost wanted a confrontation.
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