ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Kentucky incidents , mass shootings , school shootings , shooting incidents

Reply
Old 31st August 2019, 09:29 PM   #1521
fromdownunder
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,558
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It started with a traffic stop for failing to use a turn signal. Then he starts shooting at the cop(s) who pulled him over. He takes off driving and indiscriminately begins shooting at random people including other motorists.

If only he had a knife, or a swimming pool instead who knows what mayhem he may have caused


Norm
__________________
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain


fromdownunder is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 01:19 AM   #1522
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 90,416
One wonders why the USA police are armed or wear protective clothing. Surely when they need to stop someone on a killing rampage the thing to do would be to pray and send thoughts of "stop" since that seems to be the answer from politicians to the issue of mass killings?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 10:29 AM   #1523
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24,592
Now reported as 7 killed. Some reports say 8 but I think that includes the shooter. I'm surprised that he hasn't been named yet. Reports from last night say that authorities know his identity.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 11:23 AM   #1524
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24,592
Originally Posted by CNN
The suspect in the Odessa and Midland, Texas, shooting used an AR-type weapon according to Odessa Police Chief Michael Gerke.

FBI Special Agent in Charge Christopher Combs said his agency responds to Texas frequently. The FBI is “here now almost every other week supporting our local and state partners on active shooters. We're almost every two weeks an active shooter in this country," he said.

The suspect has an Ector County address, Odessa Police Chief Michael Gerke said. He did not release the shooter's name.

Combs did say they are serving a federal search warrant in the area, but added there are numerous incident scenes across the area.
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/wes...and/index.html
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 11:44 AM   #1525
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,524
This thread should be renamed "Today's Mass Shootings", since there is more than one a day.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 11:46 AM   #1526
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24,592
Originally Posted by Daily Mail
Authorities said they would not name the gunman who shot dead seven people in Odessa, Texas, because they do not want to give him notoriety at a press conference on Sunday.

Odessa Police Chief Michael Gerke told reporters that he would not reveal the suspect's identity at the public venue but that officials would release the name eventually.

The gunman was previously confirmed to be a white male in his 30s. He was shot and killed by police in the parking lot of the Cinergy movie theater in Odessa on Saturday afternoon.

Gerke said he was a resident of Ector County with a criminal record and that he used an assault rifle to carry out the shooting, which left seven dead - ranging in age from 15 to 57 - and 22 injured.

The police chief added that investigators have yet to determine a possible motive but the probe is ongoing and multiple crime scenes are being worked on...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...notoriety.html
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 11:57 AM   #1527
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24,592
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
This thread should be renamed "Today's Mass Shootings", since there is more than one a day.
With some exceptions we post the USA mass shootings in this thread. We can see that they don't happen every day. But it could be a daily thing if the definition is broadened so that it includes domestic and organized crime (mostly gangs) or mass shootings in other countries. Or shootings with many injured but few or no deaths.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

Last edited by William Parcher; 1st September 2019 at 11:59 AM.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 12:07 PM   #1528
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 21,780
Seven dead, that's 53 for the month of August. Plus about a thousand more smaller incidents.
Yea, freedom.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 12:15 PM   #1529
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 13,647
Another white male spree-shooter.

They certainly are over-represented in this sort of crime.
__________________
"You can't promote principled anti-corruption action without pissing-off corrupt people!" - George Kent on Day one of the Trump Impeachment Hearings

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 12:16 PM   #1530
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,693
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Gerke said he was a resident of Ector County with a criminal record
I'm going to guess...domestic violence of some sort.
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 12:39 PM   #1531
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 24,968
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Seven dead, that's 53 for the month of August. Plus about a thousand more smaller incidents.
Yea, freedom.
Freedumb.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 12:43 PM   #1532
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,524
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
With some exceptions we post the USA mass shootings in this thread. We can see that they don't happen every day. But it could be a daily thing if the definition is broadened so that it includes domestic and organized crime (mostly gangs) or mass shootings in other countries. Or shootings with many injured but few or no deaths.
Defined here as one incident where 4 or more people are shot;

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/about

and the number of shootings here;

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data

which is 342 as per today (so far) which since today is day 244, is more than one a day.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 01:59 PM   #1533
Cain
Straussian
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 13,484
Mass shootings clarify people's values, helping us keep track of what's important. Right now we must do everything to protect our guns from the government.
__________________
April 13th, 2018:
Ranb: I can't think of anything useful you contributed to a thread in the last few years.
Cain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 02:59 PM   #1534
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,976
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Seven dead, that's 53 for the month of August. Plus about a thousand more smaller incidents.
Yea, freedom.

Some seem to forget that here. Very telling how many people jump all over the "he was white" thing in this thread.

Which is worse, a few shooters killing many in a few incidents, or the hundreds of shooters that kill more people every day? That's a lot of shooters running around!

Answer: they are all bad.

Does CNN or Fox ever report on the dozens of gun murders that occur every day? Pretty rare.

Does anybody here talk about gang violence and the children who are shooting and getting shot every day? Nope. In fact I can remember no thread devoted to gang violence here at all. There must be a few because...

https://www.bradyunited.org/key-statistics

Quote:
Every day, 310 people are shot in the United States. Among those:

100 people are shot and killed
210 survive gun injuries
95 are injured in an attack
61 die from suicide
10 survive a suicide attempt
1 is killed unintentionally
90 are shot unintentionally
1 is killed by legal intervention
4 are shot by legal intervention
1 died but the intent was unknown
12 are shot but the intent was unknown

But ya, let's (ISF) focus on random shootings that nobody can really predict or stop because they are somehow more tragic than the hundreds that occur every day in the same areas of the same cities by the same people (gangs).
__________________
Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.

Last edited by mgidm86; 1st September 2019 at 03:01 PM.
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 03:45 PM   #1535
Hungry81
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,352
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Some seem to forget that here. Very telling how many people jump all over the "he was white" thing in this thread.



Which is worse, a few shooters killing many in a few incidents, or the hundreds of shooters that kill more people every day? That's a lot of shooters running around!



Answer: they are all bad.



Does CNN or Fox ever report on the dozens of gun murders that occur every day? Pretty rare.



Does anybody here talk about gang violence and the children who are shooting and getting shot every day? Nope. In fact I can remember no thread devoted to gang violence here at all. There must be a few because...



https://www.bradyunited.org/key-statistics









But ya, let's (ISF) focus on random shootings that nobody can really predict or stop because they are somehow more tragic than the hundreds that occur every day in the same areas of the same cities by the same people (gangs).
You can focus on them all with sensible gun policy and laws.
Hungry81 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 03:46 PM   #1536
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 26,930
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Some seem to forget that here. Very telling how many people jump all over the "he was white" thing in this thread.

Which is worse, a few shooters killing many in a few incidents, or the hundreds of shooters that kill more people every day? That's a lot of shooters running around!

Answer: they are all bad.

Does CNN or Fox ever report on the dozens of gun murders that occur every day? Pretty rare.

Does anybody here talk about gang violence and the children who are shooting and getting shot every day? Nope. In fact I can remember no thread devoted to gang violence here at all. There must be a few because...

https://www.bradyunited.org/key-statistics




But ya, let's (ISF) focus on random shootings that nobody can really predict or stop because they are somehow more tragic than the hundreds that occur every day in the same areas of the same cities by the same people (gangs).
Why not start a thread on the topic? If you don’t people might draw the wrong conclusion - i.e. that you don’t particularly care about it except to distract from widely publicized mass shootings.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 05:16 PM   #1537
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24,592
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Defined here as one incident where 4 or more people are shot;

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/about

and the number of shootings here;

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data

which is 342 as per today (so far) which since today is day 244, is more than one a day.
Yes, that database includes domestic and organized crime (most often gangs) shootings.

Other definitions and their databases exclude domestics and gangs. Those are the "spree shooters" where we so often see white supremacists wanting to kill non-whites and other nutjobs who simply want to kill anybody they can.

The ISF seems most interested and focused on the spree shootings which are apparently dominated by white supremacists.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 05:40 PM   #1538
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 26,930
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Yes, that database includes domestic and organized crime (most often gangs) shootings.

Other definitions and their databases exclude domestics and gangs. Those are the "spree shooters" where we so often see white supremacists wanting to kill non-whites and other nutjobs who simply want to kill anybody they can.

The ISF seems most interested and focused on the spree shootings which are apparently dominated by white supremacists.
Again, if you want to add a new thread by way of balance, I am sure nobody will object.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2019, 11:39 PM   #1539
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,844
Only in 'Murica:
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd September 2019, 02:03 AM   #1540
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 42,037
They don't seem to be praying hard enough.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd September 2019, 03:09 AM   #1541
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,654
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Only in 'Murica:
Is that actually him? I notice it doesn't have the blue tick by his name.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd September 2019, 03:14 AM   #1542
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,524
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Only in 'Murica:
I had to check that to see if it was genuine. It is....
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd September 2019, 06:25 AM   #1543
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24,592
The Odessa Texas shooter was fired from his job hours before the shootings.

He has now been named and pictures are published. A motive has not yet been established.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd September 2019, 08:38 AM   #1544
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24,592
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Again, if you want to add a new thread by way of balance, I am sure nobody will object.
I don't have any desire to start a thread on everyday murders nor do I really understand your concept of "balance" for this.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd September 2019, 08:43 AM   #1545
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24,592
Daily Mail reports that the shooter lived in a remote home without running water or heat, he would shoot animals from his rooftop and threatened at least one neighbor with a rifle. He was fired from his trucking job right before going on the rampage.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd September 2019, 09:09 AM   #1546
ArchSas
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 274
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Daily Mail reports that the shooter lived in a remote home without running water or heat, he would shoot animals from his rooftop and threatened at least one neighbor with a rifle. He was fired from his trucking job right before going on the rampage.
Interesting. When I first heard the reports of someone hijacking a mail truck and shooting a cop, I suspected it might have been the work of an anti-government whacko. Him being a survivalist kind of fits that, too. I wonder how much else they can find out about this guy.
ArchSas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd September 2019, 09:41 AM   #1547
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24,592
When I read about no running water or heat I don't automatically think "survivalist". More information is needed. Those things can occur because of lack of money or need for repair or whatever while the person is not really a survivalist per se.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd September 2019, 10:04 AM   #1548
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 26,930
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I don't have any desire to start a thread on everyday murders nor do I really understand your concept of "balance" for this.

Well, if you don’t understand my reply, maybe I misunderstood your point in this post:

Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Yes, that database includes domestic and organized crime (most often gangs) shootings.

Other definitions and their databases exclude domestics and gangs. Those are the "spree shooters" where we so often see white supremacists wanting to kill non-whites and other nutjobs who simply want to kill anybody they can.

The ISF seems most interested and focused on the spree shootings which are apparently dominated by white supremacists.
“The ISF seems most interested in...”.

Is that a problem? If so, what should we be most interested in?
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd September 2019, 11:13 AM   #1549
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,620
Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
You can focus on them all with sensible gun policy and laws.
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Why not start a thread on the topic? If you don’t people might draw the wrong conclusion - i.e. that you don’t particularly care about it except to distract from widely publicized mass shootings.
Agreed on both points.

All murders and other violent crimes should be treated seriously and addressed with real-world solutions.

However, the point certain posters seem to be missing is that the mass shootings being discussed in this thread are unique because the randomness of their nature makes almost all public spaces unsafe and places everyone in danger.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd September 2019, 11:16 AM   #1550
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,620
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Only in 'Murica:
Yeah, conservatives really seem to have a handle on the issue.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd September 2019, 06:28 PM   #1551
AJM8125
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
 
AJM8125's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,121
Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
You can focus on them all with sensible gun policy and laws.
OK, how?
__________________


The better you get, the harder you work.
AJM8125 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd September 2019, 12:20 AM   #1552
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 13,647
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
What a complete and utter plonker Schaeffer is!
__________________
"You can't promote principled anti-corruption action without pissing-off corrupt people!" - George Kent on Day one of the Trump Impeachment Hearings

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd September 2019, 12:24 AM   #1553
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 90,416
Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
OK, how?
Start passing laws that restrict type of guns that can be owned, who can own them, how they have to be stored and so on. It will be decades before you can make any real impact on your gun problem but it will always be never not decades if you don't start. Perfect is the enemy of the good.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd September 2019, 03:15 AM   #1554
Ian Osborne
JREF Kid
Tagger
 
Ian Osborne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,178
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Start passing laws that restrict type of guns that can be owned, who can own them, how they have to be stored and so on. It will be decades before you can make any real impact on your gun problem but it will always be never not decades if you don't start. Perfect is the enemy of the good.
I usually hate posts that add nothing to a debate but only endorse what a previous poster said, but this is so on the nail I'm going to do that now. Very well said.
__________________
"Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine

"The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan
Ian Osborne is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd September 2019, 05:59 AM   #1555
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 26,930
Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
I usually hate posts that add nothing to a debate but only endorse what a previous poster said, but this is so on the nail I'm going to do that now. Very well said.
^
What he said!
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd September 2019, 06:17 AM   #1556
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 11,413
Seems to me that the most effective gun-death prevention measure would be universal healthcare and a decent social safety net.
__________________
ETTD
Everything Trump Touches Dies
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd September 2019, 09:19 AM   #1557
autumn1971
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,124
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Seems to me that the most effective gun-death prevention measure would be universal healthcare and a decent social safety net.
You’re a filthy Communist. Also likely a Muslim atheist.
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."'
-The Bard
autumn1971 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd September 2019, 09:34 AM   #1558
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 8,061
Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
You’re a filthy Communist. Also likely a Muslim atheist.
Lastly, your mother was a snow blower and your daddy was a lawn mower!

I've wanted to make a short circuit reference since that movie was relevant...

In all honesty though, I do agree with his statement. If we gave people the opportunity to get help whenever they needed it, and not have to worry about going bankrupt because they suffer from something they don't understand it would go a long ways to solving this issue. I do, however, think their mental health should be tied to gun ownership. I just don't know how to get to that point.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd September 2019, 09:36 AM   #1559
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24,592
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Well, if you don’t understand my reply, maybe I misunderstood your point in this post:

“The ISF seems most interested in...”.

Is that a problem? If so, what should we be most interested in?
My idea of "balance" is not a parallel list of murders that were of a different nature. To balance the horrific tragedy of a spree mass shooting you would need to provide a record of a spree-type incident which brings great happiness and content. That's what I think of when prompted to provide "balance".

The interest and emphasis of spree shooters with the exclusion of "everyday" shootings of a different nature (mostly domestic and non-spree crimes) isn't so much a problem as it is a feature. It is the non-spree non-mass shootings that take the biggest toll.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd September 2019, 09:57 AM   #1560
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24,592
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Agreed on both points.

All murders and other violent crimes should be treated seriously and addressed with real-world solutions.

However, the point certain posters seem to be missing is that the mass shootings being discussed in this thread are unique because the randomness of their nature makes almost all public spaces unsafe and places everyone in danger.
That point is not missed. The other thing that should not be missed is the real potential for someone to be killed or harmed by someone that they already know in a non-spree event, or other shootings of a different nature.

I don't know what the statistics are but there may be some way to calculate odds...

The probability of being a victim in a random mass shooting in a public space (being in the wrong place at the wrong time). Compared to...

The probability of being a shooting victim of an incident of a different nature.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:47 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.