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Old 11th February 2022, 03:50 PM   #41
ahhell
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It really advanced the US security apparatus's ability to spy on Foreigners and Americans alike. The FISA courts are basically a soft star chamber without any meaningful oversight.
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Old 12th February 2022, 01:53 AM   #42
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
It really advanced the US security apparatus's ability to spy on Foreigners and Americans alike. The FISA courts are basically a soft star chamber without any meaningful oversight.
True, although I believe that has been rolled back somewhat now.
To me, that would still appear to be groups piggybacking on the aftermath of 9/11 to advance their own interests, rather than being an actual goal of staging the attacks in the first place.
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Old 16th February 2022, 07:31 PM   #43
Allen773
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Here’s a conspiracy theory for you: Iran was behind 9/11.

“But wait, Al-Qaeda are Salafi Sunni jihadists, disproportionately from Arab countries, and the guy who founded it and led it until his death was a rich Saudi!”

Yes, but have you considered that Osama bin Laden’s stated enemies—the United States, Israel, and the House of Saud — are also sworn enemies of the Iranian regime? Curious, huh?

“That’s some neo-con hawk fever dream ********. If anything, the Saudis were much more responsible for 9/11, especially with 15 of the 19 hijackers being Saudi and all of the contacts some of the hijackers had with people at the Saudi consulate and embassy before 9/11!”

Ah, but that just shows how good the Iranians are at this stuff. They were FRAMING their Saudi archenemy for 9/11, to drive a stake in the heart of the alliance between the US and Saudi Arabia. How diabolically brilliant!

“Yeah, well, it’s not like we invaded Iran after 9/11. We invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq!”

Yes, we got rid of Iran’s Taliban enemies in Afghanistan and their archnemesis Saddam Hussein in Iraq and empowered the Shia majority in Iraq, which Iran took advantage of. We made it so much easier for Iran to get weapons to its close allies and proxies in Syria and Lebanon. We did their jobs for them.

But of course that’s no surprise, because the US government is in fact secretly controlled by the Iranian Ayatollahs themselves, and it doesn’t matter which party is in power.

/conspiracy theory mode

My head hurts.

Last edited by Allen773; 16th February 2022 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 17th February 2022, 10:21 AM   #44
ahhell
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
True, although I believe that has been rolled back somewhat now.
To me, that would still appear to be groups piggybacking on the aftermath of 9/11 to advance their own interests, rather than being an actual goal of staging the attacks in the first place.
I agree, it was just opportunism, however, if I were the sort to think it was an inside job, that would be a goal that was accomplished.

Some of the extra security and internal spying has been rolled back but pretty much every time there's a like, Snowden and the women with a funny name, we find out its not as rolled back as I thought anyway.
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Old 20th February 2022, 07:38 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Haven't you heard? There isn't any gold in Fort Knox, and hasn't been for many years. Just imagine how disappointed the terrorsists would have been to fight their way in there, only to discover the vaults were bare!
Except for the 147,341,858 troy ounces there as of 1/31/22.
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Old 21st February 2022, 09:46 PM   #46
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The simplest that's even plausible as a motive for "MIHOP" or "LIHOP" as the old phrase goes, would be to turn US political culture into something more security obsessed, more willing to mistrust outsiders, more willing to give up freedoms.

It worked, too, except for the part where there's any real evidence of internal conspiracy. Same stuff happens when you get attacked for real, and politicians took advantage. It honestly doesn't seem a stretch to believe they would have stopped it had they reasonably been able to, and still willing to capitalize on the aftermath.
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Old 22nd February 2022, 02:08 AM   #47
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
The simplest that's even plausible as a motive for "MIHOP" or "LIHOP" as the old phrase goes, would be to turn US political culture into something more security obsessed, more willing to mistrust outsiders, more willing to give up freedoms.

It worked, too, except for the part where there's any real evidence of internal conspiracy. Same stuff happens when you get attacked for real, and politicians took advantage. It honestly doesn't seem a stretch to believe they would have stopped it had they reasonably been able to, and still willing to capitalize on the aftermath.
Very possibly- LIHOP is far more plausible than MIHOP.
I would argue with the highlighted, though. Given the ongoing storm about vaccine mandates, masks etc., I don't see that Americans are any more ready to give up their freedoms- real or perceived- than they were before.
If there was such an effect, it was short-lived. Guantanamo, CIA renditions, NSA wiretapping, use of torture- all were brought in by Dubya and his evil clique, but have been discredited and either curtailed or discontinued since.

That doesn't rule out the possibility that the neo-cons were only looking for short-term gains, in which case this could be judged a successful operation.
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Old 22nd February 2022, 11:43 AM   #48
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Not to sound like a broken record, but the only semi-plausible “conspiracy theories” about 9/11 are that some mid and lower ranking Saudi officials, religious attaches in their embassy and consulates assisted some of the hijackers.

Wait, it’s not a conspiracy theory—that absolutely happened. Fahad al-Thuimary, Omar al-Bayoumi, and Musaed al-Jarrah have been identified by the FBI as having provided assistance to Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Midhar. There are other suspicious Saudis with ties to the Saudi government identified in the “28 pages” as well as the Saudi couple who were living in Sarasota, FL in a house they were renting from the wife’s father, a wealthy Saudi businessman who had served as an advisor to a member of the royal family. Mohammed Atta and some of the other hijackers living in Florida visited this residence.

The question, then, isn’t about whether these people assisted some of the hijackers, but whether they were in any way aware of their al-Qaeda affiliation or their ultimate plans. We ultimately don’t really know and probably never will know (although I’d note that some of the aforementioned Saudis were known to have extremist views) because the Saudis take care of their own and will never be caught admitting publicly to anything that might embarrass them. They rely on the confidentiality of their conversations with US officials, and the US government isn’t keen on rocking the boat re: Saudi. Too many sensitive diplomatic, intelligence, and counterterrorism-related issues there. Oil markets are almost an afterthought.

At best, the 9/11 families seeking clarification and answers from the Saudi government will get a small, filtered version of the whole truth. Sad, but that’s the way of the world.

Last edited by Allen773; 22nd February 2022 at 11:55 AM.
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