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Tags isis , Islamic State , Islamic State issues , Syria issues , US-Syria relations

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Old 29th September 2014, 12:53 AM   #1
TheRealnz
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Syria - One big joke

A few days ago there was post of Israelis shooting down an Syrian bomber that was only .5miles s in its airspace and conducting a mission to bomb syrian rebel factions close to the israeli border. US and Israel knew this, yet israel shot down the bomber.

Today we learn that the US is now ordering a no-fly zone from assad's forces in their own country.
http://news.antiwar.com/2014/09/26/p...ssad-in-syria/

Quote:
Pentagon: US Considers ‘No-Fly’ Zone Against Assad in Syria

Posted By Jason Ditz On September 26, 2014 @ 8:09 pm In News | 4 Comments
Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey say that the US is still considering the possibility of establishing a “no-fly zone” over northeastern Syria to deny the Syrian military the ability to launch airstrikes against the rebels therein.
The idea is particularly puzzling in the northeast, since the US and its allies have been bombing ISIS targets in the exact same region. Since the US air war began, the Assad military has shifted its focus to the northwest, where other rebel factions are, allowing the US to do its dirty work for them.

Gen. Dempsey also said that they are considering the Turkish proposal for a “buffer zone” carved out of northern Syria to house refugees. Turkey has sought the zone as a way to get rid of the 1.3 million refugees they’ve been saddled with, while waiting for some regime change to happen in Syria.
That such schemes are even under consideration suggests that the Obama Administration haven’t given up on the idea of expanding their new ISIS war to include Syria’s government as well, even though they’re fighting ISIS as well.
Looks like the US pivot from ISIS to Assad was quicker and with no pretenses involved at all, quicker than I expected.

We also find out that the US has made up this Khoreasan talk on the ground.
Reporters on the ground says Syrians know of no such organization at all, what the US actually bombed was AQS or Al-Nusra Front
Quote:
Khorasan: Syrian Factions Never Heard of It

Posted By Jason Ditz On September 26, 2014 @ 6:12 pm In News | 6 Comments

Since the US began its airstrikes against Syria, the name Khorasan has been on everyone’s lips since, along with ISIS, they’ve become a top target.

It’s puzzling for people in Syria, especially those affiliated with the rebellion, because none of them have ever heard of any such faction. Indeed, the evidence is increasingly that the US made it up.

“The name is clearly US-originated,” noted analyst Pieter van Ostaeyen, who says that the name had never been mentioned by any jihadist movements until the US started talking them up.
Rather, what is being referred to by the administration as Khorasan is simply al-Qaeda. When the US attacks “Khorasan” they’re really attacking Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Qaeda’s Syria group, and don’t want to admit it because the “moderate” rebels are all closely allied with al-Qaeda. But they aren’t allied with Khorasan because there is no such thing.
The name is also a political convenience, so that when the TSA says the “Khorasan” is a threat to US flights, what they’re really saying is that al-Qaeda is a threat to US flights, hardly news, but a damning admission that 13 years of focusing on al-Qaeda in a global war hasn’t amounted to a hill of beans, and the threat is still there.
They don’t want to admit that, so instead they invented the fiction of Khorasan to cover up the truth.
So think about this. The US government and the West say they are going to Syria and back to Iraq to destroy ISIS.
To that end they bomb Al-Nusra or AQS a group that previously was at war against ISIS (Syria: al-Nusra Front declares war on ISIS - http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/18785) and at the best cause simply has agreed to not attack them first, instead of actual ISIS strong holds.

Also what has been the local response to the US lead bombing?
http://news.antiwar.com/2014/09/26/u...syrias-aleppo/

Quote:
US Strikes Boost ISIS Recruitment in Syria’s Aleppo
Posted By Jason Ditz On September 26, 2014 @ 6:39 pm In News | No Comments
Syrian rebels say that the US airstrikes on ISIS inside Syria haven’t helped them. If you’re wondering who is benefiting, the answer could well be ISIS.
Since President Obama announced his intention to strike Syria on September 10, ISIS has gained more than 200 new fighters in Aleppo Province alone. That’s likely a drop in the bucket compared to what it did for recruitment in provinces where they have a larger presence.

The US couldn’t be following the ISIS map more closely if they planned it, as the group is building itself up into a larger and more influential faction primarily on the credibility it gets from being a top US enemy right now, moreso than the territory it gained in the past year.
The administration’s answer to ISIS growing increasingly influential has been to hype them even further, and present them as a new, global enemy that needs to be wiped out through force of arms. Unsurprisingly, that has made many of the people in the line of fire of America’s newest war stand up and take notice, and is bringing a lot of them to ISIS, where they can resist the incoming US attacks on their homes.
US presence has aided ISIS.
--

I'm convinced ISIS was nothing but a backdoor into Syria to take out Assad more than ever now.
In Iraq they've found their bombing has been utterly ineffective, in Syria they are bombing ISIS and thinking of more ways to combat Assad than ISIS.
The people on the end ISIS bandwagon have been duped.
ISIS is the new yellow cake.
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Old 29th September 2014, 01:51 AM   #2
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Suppose for a moment that the US was removed from the equation.

What action, if any, would you be advocating to deal with IS?
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Old 29th September 2014, 02:13 AM   #3
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Old 29th September 2014, 03:10 AM   #4
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So, what course of action do you recommend trn? Appeasement or danegeld?
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Old 29th September 2014, 07:02 AM   #5
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Does this mean the CIA will be sending Sydney Bristow in to short-sheet Assad's bed? I'd vote for the congress critter who proposes that one in public.
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Old 29th September 2014, 07:35 AM   #6
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There's only one joke in this thread, and it ain't Syria.
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Old 29th September 2014, 12:25 PM   #7
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Assad and Putin...the OP really knows how to pick National Leaders to support.......
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Old 29th September 2014, 01:06 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by TheRealnz View Post
ISIS is the new yellow cake.
You know there was no yellow cake, so you're claiming ISIS doesn't exist?
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Old 29th September 2014, 01:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
You know there was no yellow cake
Um... yes there was. Not from Africa, but Saddam had tons of the stuff. And I don't mean that merely as "a lot", I mean literal, actual tons of it. This was all quite well documented.
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Old 29th September 2014, 01:25 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Um... yes there was. Not from Africa, but Saddam had tons of the stuff. And I don't mean that merely as "a lot", I mean literal, actual tons of it. This was all quite well documented.
Sorry should have been more specific. There was no yellowcake that Saddam was supposedly buying from Niger. It didn't exist, so my point stands.
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Old 29th September 2014, 02:59 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Sorry should have been more specific.
The lack of specificity began with TheRealnz, and I suspect he probably doesn't even know that Saddam had yellowcake stockpiles.
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Old 29th September 2014, 11:03 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
You know there was no yellow cake, so you're claiming ISIS doesn't exist?
I made my fellings perfectly clear in the post you read.
What do you have a problem understanding?
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Old 30th September 2014, 07:02 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by TheRealnz View Post
I made my fellings perfectly clear in the post you read.
What do you have a problem understanding?
Your words.
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Old 30th September 2014, 08:09 AM   #14
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The general plan is to use the rebel Syrian Free Army to fight the ground war vs. ISIL. It is much harder for them to be effective vs. ISIL if they are being bombed by Assad's forces.
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Old 30th September 2014, 11:25 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Your words.
You seem to be the only one having that problem in this thread.
So that leads me to believe its your personal problem.
I can't help you.
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Old 1st October 2014, 10:12 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by TheRealnz View Post
You seem to be the only one having that problem in this thread.
Not so. I don't know what the hell you meant either. I too would like an explanation.
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Old 1st October 2014, 06:41 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Not so. I don't know what the hell you meant either. I too would like an explanation.
I'm convinced ISIS was nothing but a backdoor into Syria to take out Assad more than ever now.
In Iraq they've found their bombing has been utterly ineffective, in Syria they are bombing ISIS and thinking of more ways to combat Assad than ISIS.
The people on the end ISIS bandwagon have been duped.
ISIS is the new yellow cake.

Is that so hard to understand?
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Old 1st October 2014, 07:30 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by TheRealnz View Post
I'm convinced ISIS was nothing but a backdoor into Syria to take out Assad more than ever now.
In Iraq they've found their bombing has been utterly ineffective, in Syria they are bombing ISIS and thinking of more ways to combat Assad than ISIS.
The people on the end ISIS bandwagon have been duped.
ISIS is the new yellow cake.

Is that so hard to understand?
So why wouldn't they just take Assad out, if that's what they wanted? Obama has been prez for several years, he's had plenty of time. He already took out bin Laden.

Or why not just do one of your "false flags".

They keep trying instead to work through the Syrian opposition, just as they did in Libya, or Bush did in Afghanistan. Why do you think that is, in cases where the country's leader is a dictator?

Or why not just sneak in American troops who have middle eastern backgrounds , and just call them "volunteers".
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Old 2nd October 2014, 06:52 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by TheRealnz View Post
I'm convinced ISIS was nothing but a backdoor into Syria to take out Assad more than ever now.
Well, your subjective conviction has certainly convinced me!
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Old 2nd October 2014, 09:04 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by TheRealnz View Post
I'm convinced ISIS was nothing but a backdoor into Syria to take out Assad more than ever now.
Stupid conspiracy theory is stupid.

Quote:
In Iraq they've found their bombing has been utterly ineffective, in Syria they are bombing ISIS and thinking of more ways to combat Assad than ISIS.
So how is ISIS helping to take out Assad? That makes no sense. We're not attacking Assad, we're not even threatening to take out Assad, the existence of ISIS is not making the task of taking out Assad any easier, but is in fact a major impediment to doing so since we cannot just bomb Assad since ISIS might take over if we do.

Hell, it's not even very important for us to combat Assad. The risk ISIS poses to Iraq is far greater than any benefit that we might see from seeing Assad toppled.

Quote:
The people on the end ISIS bandwagon have been duped.
I have no idea what you mean by this. Are you talking about the people who join ISIS being duped? The people who want us to bomb ISIS being duped? Your grammar is... not clear.

Quote:
ISIS is the new yellow cake.

Is that so hard to understand?
Yes, it is. Your theory is nonsense. I can't for the life of me understand why you subscribe to it.
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Old 2nd October 2014, 05:53 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
So why wouldn't they just take Assad out, if that's what they wanted? Obama has been prez for several years, he's had plenty of time. He already took out bin Laden.

Or why not just do one of your "false flags".

They keep trying instead to work through the Syrian opposition, just as they did in Libya, or Bush did in Afghanistan. Why do you think that is, in cases where the country's leader is a dictator?

Or why not just sneak in American troops who have middle eastern backgrounds , and just call them "volunteers".
Bin Laden wasn't the head of a recognized state with backing from Iran, China, and Russia.

In case you haven't been paying attention, the US has been trying to take Assad out for a few years now. They can't act unilaterally because they need political cover to do so, and so far russia and other nations have been exposing the US's political cover and causing backlash in the US over attempts to attack Syria outright.

Violating Syrian sovereignty to attack ISIS is simply a backdoor method of achieving the same goal without explicitly stating so.
-

They already tried a false flag with the Sarin gas attacks that were exposed by russia.
They have already snuck troops into Syria to train the muslim radicals in the area to depose Assad.
-

You really need to read up on what you are talking about.
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Old 2nd October 2014, 06:22 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by TheRealnz View Post
Bin Laden wasn't the head of a recognized state with backing from Iran, China, and Russia.

In case you haven't been paying attention, the US has been trying to take Assad out for a few years now. They can't act unilaterally because they need political cover to do so, and so far russia and other nations have been exposing the US's political cover and causing backlash in the US over attempts to attack Syria outright.

Violating Syrian sovereignty to attack ISIS is simply a backdoor method of achieving the same goal without explicitly stating so.
-

They already tried a false flag with the Sarin gas attacks that were exposed by russia.
They have already snuck troops into Syria to train the muslim radicals in the area to depose Assad.
-

You really need to read up on what you are talking about.
I do read up. You have no evidence the Sarin attack was a false flag, and if it was, the end result was Syria gave up it's gas stocks, and that's all.

Why would they need political cover? They could just kill him and deny it. Would be so much easier.

A real false flag would be something they could just fake in the U. S. You think they are capable of it, since you think 9/11 was an inside job. Why not just do something like that here? What do you think is holding them back?
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Old 2nd October 2014, 08:25 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I do read up. You have no evidence the Sarin attack was a false flag, and if it was, the end result was Syria gave up it's gas stocks, and that's all.

Why would they need political cover? They could just kill him and deny it. Would be so much easier.

A real false flag would be something they could just fake in the U. S. You think they are capable of it, since you think 9/11 was an inside job. Why not just do something like that here? What do you think is holding them back?
Actually you haven't read up. You are actually completely igonorant in what you are trying to talk about and it is clear to see.

We do have evidence it was a false flag, we know the US government lied about the rebels not having access to sarin gas, this was verified by the UN report and indpendent investigation.
cited here ( https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...elligence.html )
We also know the US had information from defense intelligence that the Turks were giving Al Nusra free reign and aiding them in getting the precursors to sarin gas production.
citation here ( http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour...d-the-rat-line )

We also have the russian investigation submitted to the UN that also points to the rebels being involved with the sarin gas attacks,
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Secur...yria-by-rebels

Why would the US need political cover, easy. US has been in a war for 10 years and the populace is not hungry for more war. To get the public on board to support the politicians in office who want to be re-elected they need cover or a story to sell the populace for why they should go to war again. Thus the need for political cover. Yes the US could just bomb and try to murder Assad, but he actually has an adequate military and air defenses that would make such actions hard to do, and like I said earlier Assad regime actually has regional allies supporting them in Iran and internationally in Russia and China. So for the US to move on Syria they would need cover to go against those 3 states.

I've said OKC needs to be properly investigated though. You probably need to figure out how those are two seperate events.

Also I believe I said in the opening post in this thread that ISIS is the boogie man that has allowed the US to enter Syria and now start slowly attacking the Assad regime.

So really your questions make no sense because they are already answered.
You really need to read up when you try to play devil's advocate.
When you don't you put forth poor efforts like this and the OKC thread.
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Old 3rd October 2014, 01:28 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by TheRealnz View Post
Actually you haven't read up. You are actually completely igonorant in what you are trying to talk about and it is clear to see.

We do have evidence it was a false flag, we know the US government lied about the rebels not having access to sarin gas, this was verified by the UN report and indpendent investigation.
cited here ( https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...elligence.html )
We also know the US had information from defense intelligence that the Turks were giving Al Nusra free reign and aiding them in getting the precursors to sarin gas production.
citation here ( http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour...d-the-rat-line )

We also have the russian investigation submitted to the UN that also points to the rebels being involved with the sarin gas attacks,
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Secur...yria-by-rebels

Why would the US need political cover, easy. US has been in a war for 10 years and the populace is not hungry for more war. To get the public on board to support the politicians in office who want to be re-elected they need cover or a story to sell the populace for why they should go to war again. Thus the need for political cover. Yes the US could just bomb and try to murder Assad, but he actually has an adequate military and air defenses that would make such actions hard to do, and like I said earlier Assad regime actually has regional allies supporting them in Iran and internationally in Russia and China. So for the US to move on Syria they would need cover to go against those 3 states.

I've said OKC needs to be properly investigated though. You probably need to figure out how those are two seperate events.

Also I believe I said in the opening post in this thread that ISIS is the boogie man that has allowed the US to enter Syria and now start slowly attacking the Assad regime.

So really your questions make no sense because they are already answered.
You really need to read up when you try to play devil's advocate.
When you don't you put forth poor efforts like this and the OKC thread.
Wow, your US is like Dr. Evil. They always have to put the hero in some ridiculously escapable situation. Why not just take him out, blam. Use one of his own weapons and blame it on a rebel officer, a patsy. They don't have to have anything on paper. Do they ever, in the false flags they 'certainly' did?
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