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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old Today, 09:55 AM   #1321
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Be specific. What kind of indictments are you expecting WON'T come out of this Mueller probe?
As far as I can tell, neither of you actually expects Mueller to indict anyone in the Trump campaign for colluding with Russia to influence the election.
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Old Today, 09:59 AM   #1322
Fudbucker
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
As far as I can tell, neither of you actually expects Mueller to indict anyone in the Trump campaign for colluding with Russia to influence the election.
In Trump's campaign? Oh, I expect charges to come out of that. I'm not sure it will reach Trump or the people in his orbit, though. But the question isn't about Roger Stone-types getting caught up in this, but the really big fish.
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Old Today, 10:02 AM   #1323
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
In Trump's campaign? Oh, I expect charges to come out of that. I'm not sure it will reach Trump or the people in his orbit, though. But the question isn't about Roger Stone-types getting caught up in this, but the really big fish.
Okay? Is that what you're proposing to bet on?
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Old Today, 10:04 AM   #1324
NoahFence
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
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Old Today, 10:07 AM   #1325
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Be specific. What kind of indictments are you expecting WON'T come out of this Mueller probe?
I'm willing to make a forum bet that no high-level Trump officials will be indicted for collusion with Russia to affect the 2016 election.
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Old Today, 10:09 AM   #1326
slyjoe
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Careful - there is no crime of "collusion". Remember?
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Old Today, 10:15 AM   #1327
theprestige
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
: wink8 :
That's a really weird spelling of "my mistake, I now see that you did give an alternative."
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Old Today, 10:20 AM   #1328
Fudbucker
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I'm willing to make a forum bet that no high-level Trump officials will be indicted for collusion with Russia to affect the 2016 election.
Not just Trump officials. There may be Congressmen caught up in this. And former high-level Trump officials, like Flynn.
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Old Today, 10:22 AM   #1329
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The connection you're referring to here is the entirely mundane and commonplace meeting between representatives of the president-elect and their foreign counterparts.
No, I'm referring to meetings between a member of Trump's campaign staff and Russian agents, and relatives of Putin, in which they discussed "dirt" on Clinton, and the Trump campaign, and tried to set up meetings between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.

Quote:
And you replied by asserting that the connection had been demonstrated.
No I didn't.

Quote:
I'm willing to admit that my claim was wildly speculative.
Good. Christ, that took a lot more work than it should have.

Quote:
Those details don't seem to include the "connection between Trump and Russia" that we're talking about. Can you quote an excerpt that demonstrates that connection?
Well, to pick one example at random:

Quote:
DURING THE JULY 2016 REPUBLICAN CONVENTION
Page Meets With Kislyak

Carter Page and J.D. Gordon, national security advisers to the Trump campaign, meet with ambassador Sergey Kislyak. They stress that Trump would like to improve relations with Russia. Page later testifies that the subject of sanctions may have come up “in passing.”
Carter Page, working on behalf of the Trump campaign, meets with the Russian ambassador to the US, and illegally talks about sanctions. That's one example out of the many such instances. I know there's a lot of this stuff, so I can't blame you if you haven't kept abreast of it, but it wouldn't hurt you to read the link I provided, as it's a good starting point.
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Old Today, 10:23 AM   #1330
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I'm willing to make a forum bet that no high-level Trump officials will be indicted for collusion with Russia to affect the 2016 election.
What do you call Flynn and Manafort?

Oh that's right, you think a plea deal means the only crime was the one it was pled down to.
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Old Today, 10:25 AM   #1331
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Not just Trump officials. There may be Congressmen caught up in this. And former high-level Trump officials, like Flynn.
Congress, Senate, Cabinet members, Trump & Family, chief of staff, campaign manager, anyone on the security council... that a big enough list?

But it has to be an indictment for illegal activities helping Russia to affect the 2016 election. Process violations don't count, anything prior to or after the 2016 election don't count. So current indictment against Flynn wouldn't qualify.
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Old Today, 10:26 AM   #1332
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I'm willing to make a forum bet that no high-level Trump officials will be indicted for collusion with Russia to affect the 2016 election.
Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Careful - there is no crime of "collusion". Remember?
Exactly. So Zig will be right.

But is there really any doubt that members of the Trump campaign staff or associates knew and had discussions with Russian operatives on how the Russians could help?

I don't know what laws they broke but that doesn't mean these acts didn't happen and Trump etc tried to cover it up.
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Old Today, 10:26 AM   #1333
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
What do you call Flynn and Manafort?

Oh that's right, you think a plea deal means the only crime was the one it was pled down to.
We were specifically talking about indictments. If there isn't an indictment, obviously it won't count for this bet.

And everything involving both Flynn and Manafort wasn't about the 2016 election. Flynn allegedly lied about stuff that happened during the transition (post election). Manafort's alleged crimes predate the 2016 campaign.
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Old Today, 10:27 AM   #1334
Fudbucker
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Congress, Senate, Cabinet members, Trump & Family, chief of staff, campaign manager, anyone on the security council... that a big enough list?

But it has to be an indictment for illegal activities helping Russia to affect the 2016 election. Process violations don't count, anything prior to or after the 2016 election don't count. So current indictment against Flynn wouldn't qualify.
Those are acceptable terms. Now, what's the bet?
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Old Today, 10:28 AM   #1335
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What are they going to do? Buy a handful of social media ads that maybe have a negligible influence on a race that nobody expected to go that way, and that ended being so close that the losing candidate could have won simply by being slightly less bad? Because I will probably be able to produce some mild outrage about that.
Sorry, you think that the allegations about Russian interference are about sponsored ads?
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Old Today, 10:49 AM   #1336
NoahFence
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's a really weird spelling of "my mistake, I now see that you did give an alternative."
It wasn't a realistic alternative.
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Old Today, 11:03 AM   #1337
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Golly things must have sucked before 1818!

I heart hysterical hyperbole.
and we heart traitors.
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"We found no evidence that the conclusions by Department prosecutors were affected by bias or other improper considerations; rather, we determined that they were based on the prosecutors' assessment of the facts, the law, and past Department practice”
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Old Today, 11:07 AM   #1338
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
We were specifically talking about indictments. If there isn't an indictment, obviously it won't count for this bet.

And everything involving both Flynn and Manafort wasn't about the 2016 election. Flynn allegedly lied about stuff that happened during the transition (post election). Manafort's alleged crimes predate the 2016 campaign.
I know you've chosen to dig your heels in to the bitter end, but damn that must be getting hard to do.
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Old Today, 11:08 AM   #1339
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Sorry, you think that the allegations about Russian interference are about sponsored ads?
He shows a serious lack of understanding how the manipulation via social media works.
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