Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl

Does she have some insight into climate change that contemporary climate scientists do not?

Being 12 and autistic doesn't sound that remarkable.

It's not the scientists she is addressing, it's the public denial and apathy.

[Pterodactyl]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

It's not the scientists she is addressing, it's the public denial and apathy.

Please move all non-Predator related posts to an appropriate thread.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl

Oh never mind.
I think she's a great spokesperson then.

That's nice but worthless as your "thinking" is happening in a vacuum as you have obviously never heard about her and the campaign run with her as the prodigy.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Despite her looks, she is an excellent public speaker.

Um.

Lots of horrible people have been excellent (or at least effective) public speakers. There's a lot of people who believe such a one occupies the White House today.

Maybe we should wait a decade or two, to see what kind of person she becomes, before we pin our hopes on her demagoguery.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

That's nice but worthless as your "thinking" is happening in a vacuum as you have obviously never heard about her and the campaign run with her as the prodigy.

Holding up children as prodigies of critical importance to the future of humanity seems deeply unhealthy to me.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Been sleeping under a rock or something? Or is this some kind of tp sarcasm we're all supposed to magically understand?



You appear to have no clue what Greta has accomplished. Should I fill you in?



Inspired by 16-year-old Swedish activist Greta Thunberg's weekly protests, the global youth climate movement has swept the globe, with students organizing strikes on every continent.

Oh, good. She's leading a Children's Crusade.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl

Please move all non-Predator related posts to an appropriate thread.

That's a joke, right?

[Pterodactyl]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

That's nice but worthless as your "thinking" is happening in a vacuum as you have obviously never heard about her and the campaign run with her as the prodigy.

So just because I’ve never heard of her I’m not allowed to offer a firm opinion?

[Giz]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Been sleeping under a rock or something? Or is this some kind of tp sarcasm we're all supposed to magically understand?

You appear to have no clue what Greta has accomplished. Should I fill you in?

Inspired by 16-year-old Swedish activist Greta Thunberg's weekly protests, the global youth climate movement has swept the globe, with students organizing strikes on every continent.

Great, not only can society take lessons from children who are too young to have fully developed reasoning skills but by striking the youngsters also learn less science.

Attacking reason and skepticism from multiple angles

[lionking]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Oh, good. She's leading a Children's Crusade.

When adults like Trump and Australia’s Morrison are doing nothing about climate change, bring on the Children’s Crusade

And to repeat what others have said, Bolt is scum.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Giz

Great, not only can society take lessons from children who are too young to have fully developed reasoning skills but by striking the youngsters also learn less science.

Attacking reason and skepticism from multiple angles

OMG, I had no idea there was a right-wing trash-Greta meme going in their echo-chamber. I thought you guys were joking that's how stupid the argument being presented against Greta is.

BTW, I notice the entire argument is an ad hom fallacy, not addressing in the least her actual campaign or accomplishments.

[Giz]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

OMG, I had no idea there was a right-wing trash-Greta meme going in their echo-chamber. I thought you guys were joking that's how stupid the argument being presented against Greta is.

BTW, I notice the entire argument is an ad hom fallacy, not addressing in the least her actual campaign or accomplishments.

You must be misreading. I have said nothing derogatory about Greta. However, I have noted that a society who defers complex policy decisions to 16 year olds should be scorned.

[Ryokan]

Originally Posted by Giz

You must be misreading. I have said nothing derogatory about Greta. However, I have noted that a society who defers complex policy decisions to 16 year olds should be scorned.

What complex policy decisions?

Greta Thunberg, if you ever listened to any of her speeches, has basically only one message: Politicians should listen to the scientists.

A message that would usually be applauded here.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Ryokan

What complex policy decisions?

Greta Thunberg, if you ever listened to any of her speeches, has basically only one message: Politicians should listen to the scientists.

A message that would usually be applauded here.

Exactly. One of the leading climate change deniers in Australia is leading criticism of her. Are critics of her in this thread also deniers????

[Minoosh]

Originally Posted by Giz

You must be misreading. I have said nothing derogatory about Greta. However, I have noted that a society who defers complex policy decisions to 16 year olds should be scorned.

Um ... who is deferring complex policy decisions to a 16-year-old?

She probably knows more about the science than the American president does, which, granted, is a pretty low bar. And, today's kiddos are going to live with climate change longer than I will. They are perfectly entitled to their opinions, and their activism.

I'm reminded of 18-year-olds in the Vietnam era. Old enough to die and/or kill for their country; too young to vote. Fortunately the whole country realized the absurdity, partly due to youth activism.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Giz

You must be misreading. I have said nothing derogatory about Greta. However, I have noted that a society who defers complex policy decisions to 16 year olds should be scorned.

You didn't say anything derogatory, you simply dismissed her because she was 16?

I think you should review what the ad hom fallacy is.

[Minoosh]

Originally Posted by lionking

Exactly. One of the leading climate change deniers in Australia is leading criticism of her. Are critics of her in this thread also deniers????

I think it's just a reflex for many so-called "conservatives." Especially, though not exclusively, in the U.S.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Minoosh

Um ... who is deferring complex policy decisions to a 16-year-old?

She probably knows more about the science than the American president does, which, granted, is a pretty low bar. And, today's kiddos are going to live with climate change longer than I will. They are perfectly entitled to their opinions, and their activism.

I'm reminded of 18-year-olds in the Vietnam era. Old enough to die and/or kill for their country; too young to vote. Fortunately the whole country realized the absurdity, partly due to youth activism.

Exactly. My youngest daughter is a fairly radical green. I’m not because I think a lot of green economic policies would be disastrous. But if I were her age and younger I would be striking from school, marching through the streets and having a poster of Greta on my wall.

Kids will have the duty to clean up the mess of older generations. I hope they are up to it.

[ThatGuy11200]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Dude I've never heard of calls out other dude I've never heard of. Somehow this is important.

Whatever. I have a policy of not taking children seriously on any issue.

Unless this Thunberg person is some kind of world renowned precocious polymath, who cares what she thinks or says? For sure if it has any real value, we can find a mature and experienced adult with the expertise to make the same argument from actual authority.

Greta gets media attention that more experienced and renowned scientists simply do not get. The important thing is to get people to pay attention to the issue and that's what she's doing.

[The Great Zaganza]

you know what they say:

"If you aren't an environmentalist before the age of 20, ... "

[lionking]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

you know what they say:

"If you aren't an environmentalist before the age of 20, ... "

Socialist, but yeah sure. Unlike earlier generations younger people have to be serious environmentalists or their world (not ours) will be hell.

[a_unique_person]

Andrew Bolt will be pleased. He is in the news again.

[a_unique_person]

Originally Posted by Giz

You must be misreading. I have said nothing derogatory about Greta. However, I have noted that a society who defers complex policy decisions to 16 year olds should be scorned.

Greta is just repeating the message the scientists have been telling us for 40 years. They were scorned too and they weren't 16.

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Someone called Andrew Bolt is in the news today for apparently attacking Greta Thunberg, the teenage climate change campaigner (who, I was surprised to note) has not been mentioned on this forum before - at least searching for "Thunberg" gives no results).

Unfortunately Bolt's column is behind a paywall, so I can't see exactly what he said, beyond his opening few paragraphs, which include:

"No teenager is more freakishly influential than Greta Thunberg, the deeply disturbed messiah of the global warming movement.

...

I have never seen a girl so young and with so many mental disorders treated by so many adults as a guru."

So, Thunberg - a force for much-needed change, or a mentally ill "pig-tailed soothsayer". Or something else?

Sour grapes from Bolt. He's probably got several certifications of full-blown clinical insanity and can't get invited to speak at the local Township Animal Husbandry Discussion Group and here this kid has a lower level functional autism and gets all the attention.

"What about us truly crazy people?", he cries out in vain.

[The Great Zaganza]

Originally Posted by lionking

Socialist, but yeah sure. Unlike earlier generations younger people have to be serious environmentalists or their world (not ours) will be hell.

Socialist at 20 but who's nitpicking...

[3point14]

Does anyone that's dismissing this young lady as irrelevant actually want to address what she's said rather than going with the "She's a child, I'm ignoring her" fallacy?

[The Great Zaganza]

There is little reason to assume that children Greta's age are less informed than the average voter or politician about a subject they are passionate about, and many reasons to assume that they know far more.
People wouldn't dismiss her as quickly if they weren't worried about what she has to say.

[3point14]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Whatever. I have a policy of not taking children seriously on any issue.

"Mister! Mister! That building's unsafe!! The architect, the builder and the safety officer told me! Don't go in there!"


"Begone, child! I shall take no heed of children, regardless of their words!"

(goes on to die in collapsing building)

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by 3point14

Does anyone that's dismissing this young lady as irrelevant actually want to address what she's said rather than going with the "She's a child, I'm ignoring her" fallacy?

Of course not. This is the Crazy Right Wing of modern times. As a noted old guard Republican pointed out 'round these parts, this is yet another issue that an actual conservative should be getting behind. Instead, in a warped sense of loyalty to the Great God of Dividends and Profits, they're fighting a stupid losing battle. The big loser, unfortunately, is the earth. Not this month's earth or any within the remainder of my lifetime, but certainly my kids' earth.

This should be the simplest of issues to make bipartisan. It isn't. Because, tribalism.....

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl

Does she have some insight into climate change that contemporary climate scientists do not?

No.

What's she's doing is educating and very successfully motivating multitudes of young people who have either just attained or soon will attain voting age to care about climate change as a political issue, which is why conservative climate deniers are more afraid of her than they are of contemporary climate scientists. She is a greater threat to the continued tenure of climate-denialist politicians than they.

[lionking]

Young people with outspoken opinions=women with outspoken opinions=******* with outspoken opinions. All can be safely ignored by our conservative friends here.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by lionking

Young people with outspoken opinions=women with outspoken opinions=******* with outspoken opinions. All can be safely ignored by our conservative friends here.

Well it makes a change from ignoring world class experts.

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by jimbob

Well it makes a change from ignoring world class experts.

Well, we can't accuse conservatives of racism, sexism, elitism or ageism.... they won't have it, and here's proof. They are Equal Opportunity ignorers. Anyone who knows more than them on a topic and disagrees with their self-serving interpretations will be cheerfully ignored, regardless of race, creed, color, age, gender or national origin.

[Vixen]

Is this thread about Bolt or Greta Thunberg?

The first I was aware of Greta was in a TV news report which presented her as a random schoolgirl from Sweden who had made her own way to a climate conference (Poland iirc?). She was filmed approaching the door with her placard and being let in, whereupon she sat on the floor of the lobby attracting a lot of attention.

Impressive!


WAIT!


A few months later I discovered that actually she has two pushy celebrity parents behind her.

So, not just a random schoolkid after all, but a carefully orchestrated campaign to make her famous like Mamma and Pappa.

[3point14]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Is this thread about Bolt or Greta Thunberg?

The first I was aware of Greta was in a TV news report which presented her as a random schoolgirl from Sweden who had made her own way to a climate conference (Poland iirc?). She was filmed approaching the door with her placard and being let in, whereupon she sat on the floor of the lobby attracting a lot of attention.

Impressive!


WAIT!


A few months later I discovered that actually she has two pushy celebrity parents behind her.

So, not just a random schoolkid after all, but a carefully orchestrated campaign to make her famous like Mamma and Pappa.

Got anything to say about what she actually says?

Or is this the character assassination thread where we ignore the issues she's raising and focus on the ad hominem attacks?

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by 3point14

Got anything to say about what she actually says?

Or is this the character assassination thread where we ignore the issues she's raising and focus on the ad hominem attacks?

I don't like being manipulated by PR.

I was conned into believing she was some random school girl who did all of these things completely off her own bat.

[jimbob]

She never hid her parentage; that's the fault of the media that you were consuming.

[3point14]

Originally Posted by Vixen

I don't like being manipulated by PR.

In what way are you being manipulated? I don't think you are.

What are you being manipulated into?

Quote:

I was conned into believing she was some random school girl who did all of these things completely off her own bat.

Not entirely sure that's true or relevant.

Got anything to say about any of her points at all? Or just going to rage against the perceived manipulation while large parts of the world are made literally uninhabitable?


Are you seriously going to let a perceived slight to your ego overpower any critical thinking skills you have?


Oh, and, if we're talking manipulation, why do you think it used to be "Global Warming", and it's become "Climate change"?

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by 3point14

Got anything to say about what she actually says?

Is she actually saying anything that you yourself haven't already said? Anything new that hasn't been discussed here already?

[lionking]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Is she actually saying anything that you yourself haven't already said? Anything new that hasn't been discussed here already?

The thing you are wilfully ignoring is that people are listening to her. Why is this a bad thing? Are you a climate change denier?