Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by 3point14

In what way are you being manipulated? I don't think you are.

What are you being manipulated into?






Not entirely sure that's true or relevant.

Got anything to say about any of her points at all? Or just going to rage against the perceived manipulation while large parts of the world are made literally uninhabitable?


Are you seriously going to let a perceived slight to your ego overpower any critical thinking skills you have?


Oh, and, if we're talking manipulation, why do you think it used to be "Global Warming", and it's become "Climate change"?

It is horrendous her parents have piled all these labels on her 'autistic' etc.etc., as though having a moral conscience means you are 'high functioning aspergers' or whatever.

Whatever she is, she is perfectly normal and not special as claimed by her parents just because they have had her labelled her as some kind of freak.

Pushy parents: ugh, gimme a break.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by lionking

The thing you are wilfully ignoring is that people are listening to her. Why is this a bad thing? Are you a climate change denier?

I'll answer your questions if you answer mine.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by theprestige

I'll answer your questions if you answer mine.

You haven’t asked me any questions. I only recently joined this thread. Please keep up.

[a_unique_person]

Don't listen to kids. Let the adults take charge.

Quote:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-...onaro/11380976


The head of Brazil's National Institute for Space Research (INPE) has been sacked amid criticism by President Jair Bolsonaro about the agency's reports on deforestation in the Amazon.

After meeting with the country's Minister of Science and Technology, Ricardo Galvao said his mandate would be terminated before the end of his term next year due to an "unsustainable" situation.
Minister Marcos Pontes later confirmed Mr Galvao's departure on Twitter and thanked him for his dedication.
Since taking office in January, the administration of Mr Bolsonaro — a climate change sceptic — has consistently clashed with environmentalists and others over possibly opening up the Amazon rainforest to development and agribusiness.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Vixen

It is horrendous her parents have piled all these labels on her 'autistic' etc.etc., as though having a moral conscience means you are 'high functioning aspergers' or whatever.



Whatever she is, she is perfectly normal and not special as claimed by her parents just because they have had her labelled her as some kind of freak.



Pushy parents: ugh, gimme a break.

That's nice to know.

Now about climate change problems?

[3point14]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Is she actually saying anything that you yourself haven't already said? Anything new that hasn't been discussed here already?

No. Why does that matter?

Is now a different point to your 'I don't listen to children regardless of what they're saying' or is this somehow linked?

[3point14]

Originally Posted by Vixen

It is horrendous her parents have piled all these labels on her 'autistic' etc.etc., as though having a moral conscience means you are 'high functioning aspergers' or whatever.

Whatever she is, she is perfectly normal and not special as claimed by her parents just because they have had her labelled her as some kind of freak.

Pushy parents: ugh, gimme a break.

So, no actual issues with what she's saying, you're just going to keep banging on with the ad homs?

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by lionking

You haven’t asked me any questions. I only recently joined this thread. Please keep up.

The post you quoted had two questions in it. You ignored them, and posted two questions of your own. I'll answer your questions if you answer mine.

[3point14]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Maybe we should wait a decade or two, to see what kind of person she becomes, before we pin our hopes on her demagoguery.

Demagoguery?

I didn't know you denied the science. That's disappointing.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by 3point14

No. Why does that matter?

If it's already been discussed, and none of it is new, then why do we need to discuss it again, just because it's being repeated by a child celebrity?

[3point14]

Originally Posted by theprestige

If it's already been discussed, and none of it is new, then why do we need to discuss it again, just because it's being repeated by a child celebrity?

For the same reason you'll probably see more tha one coke advert today

for the same reason most political speeches make the same point over and over again.

For the same reason you repeat any important point over and over again.

Repeating the message and finding a spokesperson that people will listen to is a time honoured method of getting one's point across. Everyone does it, from your butcher to your president.


This is a weak, weak objection from you.


I still can't believe you deny the science. That's troubling.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Darat

That's nice to know.

Now about climate change problems?

Stop derailing. This thread is about Greta Thunberg.

[3point14]

I find it utterly mental that so many people who inhabit a place that's supposed to be dedicated to critical thinking are more than happy to indulge in ad hominem reasoning in this instance.

It can't be denied that the OP describes a textbook ad hominem attack. It cant be denied that some posters have not only bought that, hook, line, sinker and copy of the angling times, but they have also doubled down on why we should not listen to this young lady, at every turn blaming her age and status and at no point even mentioning her arguments.

Those that do so should be ashamed of themselves to post such drivel here of all places.

[The Great Zaganza]

Children should be seen and not heard.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by Vixen

It is horrendous her parents have piled all these labels on her 'autistic' etc.etc., as though having a moral conscience means you are 'high functioning aspergers' or whatever.

Whatever she is, she is perfectly normal and not special as claimed by her parents just because they have had her labelled her as some kind of freak.

Pushy parents: ugh, gimme a break.

You think a diagnosis of autism is labelling someone as a freak?

Don't forget that it was the right-wing attack dogs who started talking about the "dead look in her eyes" and her "strange monotone".

It was then pointed out that she was on the Autism spectrum (and to boot she was speaking in a second language).

There are many of us on the spectrum and we are not freaks for having that diagnosis. But, yes, sometimes we have what can seem an odd look in our eyes and some of us have a tone of voice that can seem strange.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Is she actually saying anything that you yourself haven't already said? Anything new that hasn't been discussed here already?

What she is saying is that no enough people, especially people in power, are taking the threat of climate change seriously and she is going to try to do what she can to make them take it seriously.

Unless you think that the issue is being taken sufficiently seriously by those in power already and it is all in hand, then it seems that she has a perfect right to try this and people have good reason to support her.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Robin

You think a diagnosis of autism is labelling someone as a freak?

Don't forget that it was the right-wing attack dogs who started talking about the "dead look in her eyes" and her "strange monotone".

It was then pointed out that she was on the Autism spectrum (and to boot she was speaking in a second language).

There are many of us on the spectrum and we are not freaks for having that diagnosis. But, yes, sometimes we have what can seem an odd look in our eyes and some of us have a tone of voice that can seem strange.

Remember that a lot of these same people calling Thunberg a freak, apparently take umbrage at any suggestion that Trump's got highly abnormal behaviour that suggests he needs a medical checkup.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by 3point14

Demagoguery?



I didn't know you denied the science. That's disappointing.

Not disappointing. Evil.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by 3point14

For the same reason you'll probably see more tha one coke advert today



for the same reason most political speeches make the same point over and over again.



For the same reason you repeat any important point over and over again.



Repeating the message and finding a spokesperson that people will listen to is a time honoured method of getting one's point across. Everyone does it, from your butcher to your president.





This is a weak, weak objection from you.





I still can't believe you deny the science. That's troubling.

All of this is quite true and makes good sense.

But it doesn't explain why we need to re-discuss issues we've already discussed, every time a spokesperson for that issue comes up in conversation.

I don't drink a lot of soda. I certainly don't debate the merits of this policy every time I see another Coca-Cola advert.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Robin

What she is saying is that no enough people, especially people in power, are taking the threat of climate change seriously and she is going to try to do what she can to make them take it seriously.



Unless you think that the issue is being taken sufficiently seriously by those in power already and it is all in hand, then it seems that she has a perfect right to try this and people have good reason to support her.

All very reasonable, but not really needing much discussion here.

[uke2se]

Originally Posted by Vixen

It is horrendous her parents have piled all these labels on her 'autistic' etc.etc., as though having a moral conscience means you are 'high functioning aspergers' or whatever.

They haven't. Doctors have. Medical science truly is horrendous.

Originally Posted by Vixen

Whatever she is, she is perfectly normal and not special as claimed by her parents just because they have had her labelled her as some kind of freak.

She's special alright. Special enough to be targeted by right wing hatred around the globe. That's because of what she's saying and what she represents.

Originally Posted by Vixen

Pushy parents: ugh, gimme a break.

According to reports, Thunberg's parents aren't pushing her. This was her idea. Her parents are supporting her.

I'm sure you'll chose to disbelieve this, however. It's much easier to think that children have no agency, especially when they're saying uncomfortable things.

[3point14]

Originally Posted by theprestige

All of this is quite true and makes good sense.

But it doesn't explain why we need to re-discuss issues we've already discussed, every time a spokesperson for that issue comes up in conversation.

Because people aren't listening.

Because the civilised world is literally in peril and we do nothing because it will cost rich people money.

Because George Bush changed the debate from 'Global Warming' to 'Climate change' because it sounds less scary. It should be scary.

Because low lying islands are already being evacuated.

Because we are not doing enough.

Anyone that speaks truth regarding this and can get people to listen and understand is worth championing.

Quote:

I don't drink a lot of soda. I certainly don't debate the merits of this policy every time I see another Coca-Cola advert.

Yeah, but you know Coke exists, don't you? I don't imagine you get too upset at someone repeating the message about some random soft drink.

Seriously, I know we disagree about a great many things, but I really didn't expect this level of denial from you. Normally I struggle to refute your points and have to work hard and be on my game. Regarding this, not so much.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Robin

You think a diagnosis of autism is labelling someone as a freak?

Don't forget that it was the right-wing attack dogs who started talking about the "dead look in her eyes" and her "strange monotone".

It was then pointed out that she was on the Autism spectrum (and to boot she was speaking in a second language).

There are many of us on the spectrum and we are not freaks for having that diagnosis. But, yes, sometimes we have what can seem an odd look in our eyes and some of us have a tone of voice that can seem strange.

What parent publicises their kid's private medical/psychological issues? The parents are holding up their daughter as 'special' - one in a billion.

Yet, there are many, many enthusiastic passionate people who care strongly about the health of the planet. There are thousands upon thousands of teenagers who do not live up to the 'norm' of what teenagers are supposed to be (party-loving, irresponsible, loud). Truth is, Greta is a great gal but she is not so very different from many other teenagers. I have nothing against her. It is her parents who get on my nerves, with their long lists of 'what is wrong with Greta' when AFAICS she is not abnormal.

[Arcade22]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Not disappointing. Evil.

Not anymore evil than the tobacco lobbyist who encourages others to smoke cigarettes, knowing very well that it's carcinogenic. Only in this case it's not as if you can personally refuse smoke cigarettes now is it. Climate change will affect you no matter what, which makes climate change denialism even more strange due to how utterly self-harming it is.

Then again it's consistent with one of those unsound conservative notions American's embrace: one should never give up small frivolous luxuries, no matter how much society or your own life would improve.

[Matthew Best]

Originally Posted by Vixen

What parent publicises their kid's private medical/psychological issues? The parents are holding up their daughter as 'special' - one in a billion.

Yet, there are many, many enthusiastic passionate people who care strongly about the health of the planet. There are thousands upon thousands of teenagers who do not live up to the 'norm' of what teenagers are supposed to be (party-loving, irresponsible, loud). Truth is, Greta is a great gal but she is not so very different from many other teenagers. I have nothing against her. It is her parents who get on my nerves, with their long lists of 'what is wrong with Greta' when AFAICS she is not abnormal.

I have somehow managed to be completely unaware of Thunberg's parents and their apparently never-ending lists of what's wrong with their daughter, while simultaneously knowing who she is, what she's concerned about and what she's doing about it.

How have they managed to get on your nerves? I've hardly seen any mention of them in all the press about her that I have seen. Can you point some out to me and I'll see if I agree?

[3point14]

Originally Posted by Vixen

What parent publicises their kid's private medical/psychological issues? The parents are holding up their daughter as 'special' - one in a billion.

Yet, there are many, many enthusiastic passionate people who care strongly about the health of the planet. There are thousands upon thousands of teenagers who do not live up to the 'norm' of what teenagers are supposed to be (party-loving, irresponsible, loud). Truth is, Greta is a great gal but she is not so very different from many other teenagers. I have nothing against her. It is her parents who get on my nerves, with their long lists of 'what is wrong with Greta' when AFAICS she is not abnormal.

Got anything that's not ad ad hom?

Care to address her points?

Or are you going to continue to dismiss her very pertinent arguments because you just don't like her parents?

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

I wouldn't worry too much, Arcade22. There's already panic in your face over the Russian hoax, so you are fitting right in without believing in St, Greta,

What are you ranting about now?

[Arcade22]

Originally Posted by catsmate

What are you ranting about now?

Russian troll stuff.

[3point14]

Originally Posted by catsmate

What are you ranting about now?

Pointless distraction and (and this shocks me, I can tell you) more ad hominem attacks.


I wonder why not a single poster has addressed the substance of this young lady's statements.

Could it be that fallacy is all they have?


The world is in peril and they're literally worried about looking like they've lost. People's egos are, it seems, very easy to manipulate.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by 3point14

Because people aren't listening.

Some people aren't.

We're listening, though. We're arguing about climate change on this board pretty regularly. If all she's saying is stuff that we're already arguing about, then there's no reason for we here to spend much time on what she's saying.

Unless she really is saying something novel about climate change, this:

Originally Posted by 3point14

Got anything to say about what she actually says?

Is a red herring.

This thread, for whatever retarded reason, is about Thunberg the person. If you want to talk about what she's saying, start a thread about climate change. Or just find one of the threads about climate change already in progress, and talk about it.

[Olmstead]

What? Parents? I'm very interested in environmentalism, so I have been following her campaigning in some detail, but her "abnormality" was only ever discussed when her opponents decided to show how sordid they are and tried to discredit her activities with cheap shots. Am I just reading the wrong newspapers?

[jimbob]

And once again, you are needlessly splitting hairs. She is a public figure simply because of her stance on global warming. She is an effective campaigner.

[Matthew Best]

Originally Posted by Olmstead

What? Parents? I'm very interested in environmentalism, so I have been following her campaigning in some detail, but her "abnormality" was only ever discussed when her opponents decided to show how sordid they are and tried to discredit her activities with cheap shots. Am I just reading the wrong newspapers?

Not the same ones as Vixen, anyway. I'm in the same situation.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Olmstead

What? Parents? I'm very interested in environmentalism, so I have been following her campaigning in some detail, but her "abnormality" was only ever discussed when her opponents decided to show how sordid they are and tried to discredit her activities with cheap shots. Am I just reading the wrong newspapers?

Originally Posted by jimbob

And once again, you are needlessly splitting hairs. She is a public figure simply because of her stance on global warming. She is an effective campaigner.

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Not the same ones as Vixen, anyway. I'm in the same situation.

Not sure y'all needed a whole thread just to figure this out, but whatever. What's the consensus? Brave campaigner? Or deeply disturbed?

[Matthew Best]

Well, excuse me. I thought it was kind of interesting that an apparently polarising figure who is well-known throughout the world for her campaigning on climate change had never previously been mentioned on this forum and thought it might be worth doing so at least once. Next time I'll be sure to clear any potential threads with you first to make sure you approve.

[3point14]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Some people aren't.

We're listening, though. We're arguing about climate change on this board pretty regularly. If all she's saying is stuff that we're already arguing about, then there's no reason for we here to spend much time on what she's saying.

Unless she really is saying something novel about climate change, this:

Is a red herring.

This thread, for whatever retarded reason, is about Thunberg the person. If you want to talk about what she's saying, start a thread about climate change. Or just find one of the threads about climate change already in progress, and talk about it.

Okay then, after "I don't listen to children" and "someone else has said all this before", you're now going with "This is all off topic. I can go with 'this is off topic', however, I think the topic is actually 'climate change deniers and the depths they will go to'.

However:


What do you think of the article in the OP? Do you agree it's a tissue of obviously fallacious reasoning written bey a man desperate to draw attention away from the excellent, valid and scientifically accurate comments this young lady is making?

[Olmstead]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Not sure y'all needed a whole thread just to figure this out, but whatever. What's the consensus? Brave campaigner? Or deeply disturbed?

One of the best things to happen to environmentalism in years, and I wish I had even half of her mental fortitude when I was her age.

Seriously, what's your point? Is it that everyone should just exchange dry research papers and let national policy naturally spring from that? I agree in principle, but then, the other side isn't likely to play fair, especially when billion dollar industries are involved.

I assume you also disagree with Trump going on about those coal jobs. Surely, the right thing to do is to provide a scientific analysis of economic and ecological factors? Populism shouldn't have a place in your worldview.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

I have somehow managed to be completely unaware of Thunberg's parents and their apparently never-ending lists of what's wrong with their daughter, while simultaneously knowing who she is, what she's concerned about and what she's doing about it.

How have they managed to get on your nerves? I've hardly seen any mention of them in all the press about her that I have seen. Can you point some out to me and I'll see if I agree?

OK here's one at random:

Quote:

Greta's mother is Malena Ernman, one of Sweden’s most celebrated opera singers. Her father is Svante Thunberg, an actor and author named after Svante Arrhenius, the Nobel prize-winning scientist who first calculated how carbon dioxide emissions could lead to the greenhouse effect.

Selective mutism, asperger's and OCD:

Quote:

Greta was diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome four-years-ago and she has since learnt how to use it as a driving force in her campaigning, instead of letting it hold her back. Her Asperger’s means that Greta finds facts she learns about the environment more upsetting and distressing than others, and she can't easily shake those feelings off. It's spurred her on to act.

“I overthink. Some people can just let things go, but I can’t, especially if there’s something that worries me or makes me sad," Greta said in an interview with The Guardian.

She has also been diagnosed with OCD and selective mutism.

Do you think a 12-year-old has gone to get herself diagnosed? No, it's her pushy parents looking for a trendy label.

Quote:

Greta learned about the concept of climate change at eight-years-old and was severely affected by the environmental outlook. A few years later, when she was 11, those feelings contributed to Greta sinking into a period of depression. She stopped going to school and lost up to 10 kilos of weight in just two months. It was during this time at home that she discussed her environmental concerns with her parents.

Her parents helped her channel her passions.

So, not a random shelf-filler's daughter from Warrington (they of course have no fancy diagnoses attached to them) but the daughter of pushy parents who got a camera crew to film her 'making her own way to Poland' and sitting in the lobby with a placard 'all by herself' (apart from the film crew).

And now she is an international star, written her own book (because, of course, the parents wish to imply she is a 'genius' [asperger's, you know?]) and nominated Malala-style for a Nobel Peace Prize.

I have known about climate change for years. It is incorrect to say 'adults do not care' as I did carbon footprints for a business case study when Greta was in kindergarten. One such business was a 'green' Tesco supermarket.

Greta is super but let's face it, has her svengali-style parents managing her 'career'.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by 3point14

Got anything to say about what she actually says?

Or is this the character assassination thread where we ignore the issues she's raising and focus on the ad hominem attacks?

Amazing isn't it? How many ways they can dismiss this climate change activist?

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Vixen

I don't like being manipulated by PR.

I was conned into believing she was some random school girl who did all of these things completely off her own bat.

You weren't conned, you just weren't paying attention to this activist over the last year or so.

She's been in the news since she started a strike at her school in Sweden. It grew over time, more teens got involved. The climate change conference you are so annoyed she was a star speaker at came after months of her campaigning. And no wonder her parents are there, d'uh, she's 16, helloo, traveling to another country.