Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed? - Page 9

Vixen · 16th August 2019, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by uke2se

Again, it's like you don't even read what you are replying to. Do you not understand what the complaint is regarding the cockwomble's tweet?

Arron Banks is a deeply unpleasant POS who almost certainly used corrupt tactics to bring about a 'leave' vote over Brexit.

He's hardly got any morals anyway, so who cares what his opinion on climate change is. He's in the same corner as Katie Hopkins and probably thrives on being perceived as a 'hater'.

uke2se · 16th August 2019, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Arron Banks is a deeply unpleasant POS who almost certainly used corrupt tactics to bring about a 'leave' vote over Brexit.

He's hardly got any morals anyway, so who cares what his opinion on climate change is. He's in the same corner as Katie Hopkins and probably thrives on being perceived as a 'hater'.

So the answer is that, no, you don't actually understand what the complain is.

Vixen · 16th August 2019, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by uke2se

Are you unfamiliar with human communication? I ask because you seem to be having a completely different conversation than the rest of us.

No, they aren't supposed to hide in a corner. They are supposed to not take a swipe at Greta Thunberg, or else they will be rightly called out as haters. This isn't rocket science. Apply some thought and I'm sure you'll get it.

So as far as you are concerned anyone who doesn't wholly support the mission statement of Greenpeace and Extinction Rebellion are 'haters'.

Yet they may have come to their views equally as scientifically as Greta and her parents.

A more moderate view is to concur we should cut down on our carbon footprint and stop plastic and micro-particle pollution but are not convinced that schoolchildren going on strike or hurray Henry's blocking the roads to stop people going to work or visiting dying parents in hospital is so absolutely essential and urgent that anyone who doesn't fully back these activities is a 'hater'.

uke2se · 16th August 2019, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

So as far as you are concerned anyone who doesn't wholly support the mission statement of Greenpeace and Extinction Rebellion are 'haters'.

Jesus Christ...

Read my post again. I'm not going to make this any easier for you, because it's easy enough to understand as it is, and watching you struggle has started to take on a kind of morbid fascination for me.

Originally Posted by Vixen

Yet they may have come to their views equally as scientifically as Greta and her parents.

People who deny climate change cannot have come to their views scientifically, per definition.

Originally Posted by Vixen

A more moderate view is to concur we should cut down on our carbon footprint and stop plastic and micro-particle pollution but are not convinced that schoolchildren going on strike or hurray Henry's blocking the roads to stop people going to work or visiting dying parents in hospital is so absolutely essential and urgent that anyone who doesn't fully back these activities is a 'hater'.

No, that's not a moderate view. That's a cowardly view that isn't going any length towards solving the problem. As for the "hater" thing, I'm interested to see how long it's going to take you to figure it out.

Vixen · 16th August 2019, 02:06 PM

Her dad is with her so it's not much different from a parent taking their kid along with them for the ride. To see the news reports one could be forgiven for thinking she was a lone traveller, aside from the crew. There are also two cameramen so I expect there'll be some lucrative commercial vlogging to pay their fees and for the charter of the yacht.

uke2se · 16th August 2019, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Her dad is with her so it's not much different from a parent taking their kid along with them for the ride. To see the news reports one could be forgiven for thinking she was a lone traveller, aside from the crew. There are also two cameramen so I expect there'll be some lucrative commercial vlogging to pay their fees and for the charter of the yacht.

Charter for the yacht? I thought you said Greta's parents bought it for her. It and the whole crew.

Can her parents do anything right in your eyes?

Also, why are you still so determined to deprive Greta Thunberg of any agency? Are you jealous that she's doing more at her age than you've managed to do during your whole life, so it just has to be her parents?

jimbob · 17th August 2019, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by uke2se

Charter for the yacht? I thought you said Greta's parents bought it for her. It and the whole crew.

Can her parents do anything right in your eyes?

Also, why are you still so determined to deprive Greta Thunberg of any agency? Are you jealous that she's doing more at her age than you've managed to do during your whole life, so it just has to be her parents?

From Twitter:

https://twitter.com/thehistoryguy/st...12074861199360

Quote:

Dan Snow
@thehistoryguy
At around Greta's age Alexander was subduing Thrace and crushing the Illyrians. Joan scattered the English at Orleans. Prince Hal hunted Glyndwr across Wales.

It's our aged society that is unusual. Not Greta.

I wonder if she'll see any mermaids?

Matthew Best · 17th August 2019, 02:01 AM

I went to Devil's Point in Plymouth to see Greta off on her journey to the US. Here's a photo I took of her waving at me:

jimbob · 17th August 2019, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by jimbob

From Twitter:

https://twitter.com/thehistoryguy/st...12074861199360

God, the replies to that tweet are depressing. Ad-hominem and whataboutism galore.

Matthew Best · 17th August 2019, 02:09 AM

You can follow her boat's progress across the Atlantic here:

www.borisherrmannracing.com/a-race-we-must-win

lionking · 17th August 2019, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

I went to Devil's Point in Plymouth to see Greta off on her journey to the US. Here's a photo I took of her waving at me:

Good show. I wish I was there.

Arcade22 · 17th August 2019, 08:55 AM

There's something perversely comical about adults literally resorting to schoolyard style bullying against a teenage youth.

BobTheCoward · 17th August 2019, 09:21 AM

Why is she going? She has nothing to contribute.

Myriad · 17th August 2019, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Why is she going? She has nothing to contribute.

Why are you opposed to her going? It seems you think she does have something to contribute, which you'd prefer she didn't.

BobTheCoward · 17th August 2019, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Myriad

Why are you opposed to her going? It seems you think she does have something to contribute, which you'd prefer she didn't.

How do you reach that conclusion? I literally indicated the issue is don't be there if you are not really contributing. There are other places you can go and hang around people with no power making no contributions. Like this forum.

Though admittedly, my objection is more with her December leg of the trip than this one.

Myriad · 17th August 2019, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

How do you reach that conclusion? I literally indicated the issue is don't be there if you are not really contributing. There are other places you can go and hang around people with no power making no contributions. Like this forum.

Though admittedly, my objection is more with her December leg of the trip than this one.

Well, that might be a believable excuse, if you had some sort of track record of being consistently opposed to people being places where they weren't really contributing. That's something that happens pretty often, for instance with sports spectators, protestors, bloggers and other amateur journalists, tourists, non-presenting conference attendees, sightseers and so forth.

But you've singled out Thunberg on that basis. Curious, and not really plausible. I think my original assessment still stands up pretty well.

BobTheCoward · 17th August 2019, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Myriad

Well, that might be a believable excuse, if you had some sort of track record of being consistently opposed to people being places where they weren't really contributing. That's something that happens pretty often, for instance with sports spectators, protestors, bloggers and other amateur journalists, tourists, non-presenting conference attendees, sightseers and so forth.

But you've singled out Thunberg on that basis. Curious, and not really plausible. I think my original assessment still stands up pretty well.

I definitely oppose live sporting event attendance.

3point14 · 17th August 2019, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Probably because I don't think it's a valid point.

Just to check, cos I missed your answer last time:

You don't believe global warming is happening? Or do you? Or do you believe it's not man made?

3point14 · 17th August 2019, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

There's something perversely comical about adults literally resorting to schoolyard style bullying against a teenage youth.

She scares them. A lot. They know that the usual tactics of obfuscate, ad hom, distract and vilify look extremely petty when leveled at the young.

She scares the **** out of them because people are listening to her. It's why they descend to what they view as insults like 'her parents helped'.

uke2se · 17th August 2019, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by 3point14

Just to check, cos I missed your answer last time:

You don't believe global warming is happening? Or do you? Or do you believe it's not man made?

The vogue amongst many right wingers nowadays is to be nihilistic about climate change. This is because they have lost the argument about whether or not it's real in the eyes of the general public. The trick now is to get people so apathetic about it so they see any action as meaningless. It's not a completely new tactic, but it seems to be the main focus nowadays, at least online. The crazies still deny it, of course, as do many of the loonier politicians, but the big dogs on the right know when to fold a losing hand.

I'm not saying theprestige is knowingly using this tactic. I'm sure he just follows the leader.

Vixen · 17th August 2019, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by uke2se

Charter for the yacht? I thought you said Greta's parents bought it for her. It and the whole crew.

Can her parents do anything right in your eyes?

Also, why are you still so determined to deprive Greta Thunberg of any agency? Are you jealous that she's doing more at her age than you've managed to do during your whole life, so it just has to be her parents?

Not at all. I can remember the scares about nuclear war. Every generation has their own cause. I did climate change from a business POV as a case study. Companies producing and selling solar panels were making huge profits and there was a scandal when quite a few of them went under, taking their creditors' monies with them.

If you look up the Thunbergs on Google you will will see Greta is backed by profit making organisations hoping to cash in on the green economy.

All this gumpf that no-one is allowed to dare say a sceptical word because Greta is a 'sixteen-year-old child with autism' is a logical fallacy.

Greta is sincere but her parents and the big corporations pushing her forward are rubbing their hands in glee and can hear the kerching sounds the more PR she gets.

I am sorry if an obvious truth is too hard for you to bear but I am not going to act as though Greta is some kind of messiah.

Vixen · 17th August 2019, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

I went to Devil's Point in Plymouth to see Greta off on her journey to the US. Here's a photo I took of her waving at me:

Great pic. Is that her dad at the back keeping out of the lime light?

uke2se · 17th August 2019, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Not at all. I can remember the scares about nuclear war. Every generation has their own cause. I did climate change from a business POV as a case study. Companies producing and selling solar panels were making huge profits and there was a scandal when quite a few of them went under, taking their creditors' monies with them.

Ok, so the reason you deny Greta any agency is because some green companies took creditors' money? That doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by Vixen

If you look up the Thunbergs on Google you will will see Greta is backed by profit making organisations hoping to cash in on the green economy.

I'm sure they are backing her cause. Are they directly sponsoring her? Can you prove that they are?

Did you know that all sponsors for the yacht have had their logos stripped for this voyage?

Originally Posted by Vixen

All this gumpf that no-one is allowed to dare say a sceptical word because Greta is a 'sixteen-year-old child with autism' is a logical fallacy.

No, that sentence is a logical fallacy, specifically a straw man fallacy.

Originally Posted by Vixen

Greta is sincere but her parents and the big corporations pushing her forward are rubbing their hands in glee and can hear the kerching sounds the more PR she gets.

I asked you to prove this before. Put up or shut up.

Originally Posted by Vixen

I am sorry if an obvious truth is too hard for you to bear but I am not going to act as though Greta is some kind of messiah.

If it's so obvious you shouldn't have any trouble at all proving it. Thus far you have failed spectacularly, despite being called on your BS multiple times.

Stop running your mouth and start producing evidence.

uke2se · 17th August 2019, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Great pic. Is that her dad at the back keeping out of the lime light?

Him being present would no doubt be a bad thing because the sneak is trying to keep away from the cameras (by going on his daughters highly publicized trip), and likewise, him not being there would be a bad thing because he would be leaving his vulnerable daughter alone on a boat trip over the Atlantic.

Am I right, Vixen? Poor guy just can't catch a break from you. Guess he should be glad nobody important listens to you, unlike his daughter.

Vixen · 17th August 2019, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by uke2se

Him being present would no doubt be a bad thing because the sneak is trying to keep away from the cameras (by going on his daughters highly publicized trip), and likewise, him not being there would be a bad thing because he would be leaving his vulnerable daughter alone on a boat trip over the Atlantic.

Am I right, Vixen? Poor guy just can't catch a break from you. Guess he should be glad nobody important listens to you, unlike his daughter.

He and his wife are ardent 'green' activists, are they not? Because of their social status they have had reams of articles in Dagens Nyheter, have they not?

So why doesn't Greta and her parents all pose together? I'll tell you why, because the carefully constructed image of 'Greta the lone warrior' is a great media magnet.

Rather like the secretly married pop stars of yesteryear had to pretend they were single so as not to put the fans off and ruin their earning power.

Checkmite · 17th August 2019, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

So why doesn't Greta and her parents all pose together?

Like this?

jimbob · 17th August 2019, 01:50 PM

He's just hungry for the attention.

Why doesn't he stay in the background?

Why did he keep her mother out of the picture?

uke2se · 17th August 2019, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

He and his wife are ardent 'green' activists, are they not? Because of their social status they have had reams of articles in Dagens Nyheter, have they not?

The father is a fairly well known actor and the mother is an opera singer. They are bound to have many articles printed about them.

But, again, your reply to my post has nothing to do with my post. I don't understand why you bother quoting me when you are going to discuss something completely different to what I was discussing. Again, it's like you don't understand the basics of human communication.

Originally Posted by Vixen

So why doesn't Greta and her parents all pose together? I'll tell you why, because the carefully constructed image of 'Greta the lone warrior' is a great media magnet.

Which percentage of photos of them posing together would disprove this nonsense for you?

And if that percentage is too high, will you immediately flip and claim that it proves that they are behind her efforts?

Originally Posted by Vixen

Rather like the secretly married pop stars of yesteryear had to pretend they were single so as not to put the fans off and ruin their earning power.

I don't even...

BobTheCoward · 17th August 2019, 02:43 PM

As I said, this is less of a deal than her December portion. This summit literally has a youth summit (which she is too young for)?

Because important things have youth summits. Remember how important that youth summit was in planning operation overlord?

uke2se · 17th August 2019, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by jimbob

He's just hungry for the attention.

Why doesn't he stay in the background?

Why did he keep her mother out of the picture?

Surely the lack of pictures of Greta posing with George Soros proves that he's behind her efforts, doesn't it? I mean, why aren't they posing together? It is, of course, because the image George Soros has created for Greta is that of a lone warrior. It's all very logical.

lionking · 17th August 2019, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by uke2se

Charter for the yacht? I thought you said Greta's parents bought it for her. It and the whole crew.

Can her parents do anything right in your eyes?

Also, why are you still so determined to deprive Greta Thunberg of any agency? Are you jealous that she's doing more at her age than you've managed to do during your whole life, so it just has to be her parents?

I think you’ve nailed it.

BobTheCoward · 17th August 2019, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I think you’ve nailed it.

This would be an interesting comment if she had done something.

jimbob · 17th August 2019, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

This would be an interesting comment if she had done something.

I know you like to play Spock, but raising global warming on the political agenda is an achievement.

BobTheCoward · 17th August 2019, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by jimbob

I know you like to play Spock, but raising global warming on the political agenda is an achievement.

That was awesome when the first million people did it. Al Gore for example. Through no fault of her own, the returns are extremely diminished.

Vixen · 17th August 2019, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by uke2se

The father is a fairly well known actor and the mother is an opera singer. They are bound to have many articles printed about them.

But, again, your reply to my post has nothing to do with my post. I don't understand why you bother quoting me when you are going to discuss something completely different to what I was discussing. Again, it's like you don't understand the basics of human communication.

Which percentage of photos of them posing together would disprove this nonsense for you?

And if that percentage is too high, will you immediately flip and claim that it proves that they are behind her efforts?

I don't even...

The articles aren't about them. It is pages of Malena hammering home the climate change message.

Malena and Svante (named after Svante Arnnehius, not Svante Sture) are archetypal proud parents living vicariously through their daughter/s.

Good luck to them but let's not pretend Greta is any random schoolgirl.

Vixen · 17th August 2019, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I think you’ve nailed it.

You can't possibly know what I've done in my lifetime.

Vixen · 17th August 2019, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by jimbob

I know you like to play Spock, but raising global warming on the political agenda is an achievement.

That's well and good but she's not the first by a long chalk.

Foolmewunz · 17th August 2019, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

That was awesome when the first million people did it. Al Gore for example. Through no fault of her own, the returns are extremely diminished.

Life is an Instagram account, now? "Hey, we got a million likes and Lady Gaga retweeted us, we can stop protesting the pulp mill pumping arsenic into the reservoir, Marge. Wanna play some Dungeons and Dragons for the rest of our lives?"

If what little she does helps to boost awareness, I'm all for it. What's the downside, really? No one's taking your hard-earned rights to your individual property away. Do you have better things she could be doing with the funds that she's using? They're not YOUR funds, doesn't it fly in the face of all Bob-Logic that you would give a rat's ass what she does?

BobTheCoward · 17th August 2019, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Life is an Instagram account, now? "Hey, we got a million likes and Lady Gaga retweeted us, we can stop protesting the pulp mill pumping arsenic into the reservoir, Marge. Wanna play some Dungeons and Dragons for the rest of our lives?"

If what little she does helps to boost awareness, I'm all for it. What's the downside, really? No one's taking your hard-earned rights to your individual property away. Do you have better things she could be doing with the funds that she's using? They're not YOUR funds, doesn't it fly in the face of all Bob-Logic that you would give a rat's ass what she does?

I haven't thought about any sort of financial or property costs. As far as I was concerned she was using a teleportation circle. I was discussing her level of accomplishment in an absolute sense and not a marginal benefit vs marginal costs.

Matthew Best · 17th August 2019, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Great pic. Is that her dad at the back keeping out of the lime light?

Not sure which one is her dad - he is on the boat with her, though.

16th August 2019, 01:28 PM	#321
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Suomi Posts: 20,227	Originally Posted by uke2se Again, it's like you don't even read what you are replying to. Do you not understand what the complaint is regarding the cockwomble's tweet? Arron Banks is a deeply unpleasant POS who almost certainly used corrupt tactics to bring about a 'leave' vote over Brexit. He's hardly got any morals anyway, so who cares what his opinion on climate change is. He's in the same corner as Katie Hopkins and probably thrives on being perceived as a 'hater'.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

16th August 2019, 01:28 PM	#322
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,174	Originally Posted by Vixen Arron Banks is a deeply unpleasant POS who almost certainly used corrupt tactics to bring about a 'leave' vote over Brexit. He's hardly got any morals anyway, so who cares what his opinion on climate change is. He's in the same corner as Katie Hopkins and probably thrives on being perceived as a 'hater'. So the answer is that, no, you don't actually understand what the complain is.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

16th August 2019, 01:35 PM	#323
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Suomi Posts: 20,227	Originally Posted by uke2se Are you unfamiliar with human communication? I ask because you seem to be having a completely different conversation than the rest of us. No, they aren't supposed to hide in a corner. They are supposed to not take a swipe at Greta Thunberg, or else they will be rightly called out as haters. This isn't rocket science. Apply some thought and I'm sure you'll get it. So as far as you are concerned anyone who doesn't wholly support the mission statement of Greenpeace and Extinction Rebellion are 'haters'. Yet they may have come to their views equally as scientifically as Greta and her parents. A more moderate view is to concur we should cut down on our carbon footprint and stop plastic and micro-particle pollution but are not convinced that schoolchildren going on strike or hurray Henry's blocking the roads to stop people going to work or visiting dying parents in hospital is so absolutely essential and urgent that anyone who doesn't fully back these activities is a 'hater'.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

16th August 2019, 01:39 PM	#324
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,174	Originally Posted by Vixen So as far as you are concerned anyone who doesn't wholly support the mission statement of Greenpeace and Extinction Rebellion are 'haters'. Jesus Christ... Read my post again. I'm not going to make this any easier for you, because it's easy enough to understand as it is, and watching you struggle has started to take on a kind of morbid fascination for me. Originally Posted by Vixen Yet they may have come to their views equally as scientifically as Greta and her parents. People who deny climate change cannot have come to their views scientifically, per definition. Originally Posted by Vixen A more moderate view is to concur we should cut down on our carbon footprint and stop plastic and micro-particle pollution but are not convinced that schoolchildren going on strike or hurray Henry's blocking the roads to stop people going to work or visiting dying parents in hospital is so absolutely essential and urgent that anyone who doesn't fully back these activities is a 'hater'. No, that's not a moderate view. That's a cowardly view that isn't going any length towards solving the problem. As for the "hater" thing, I'm interested to see how long it's going to take you to figure it out.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

16th August 2019, 02:06 PM	#325
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Suomi Posts: 20,227	Her dad is with her so it's not much different from a parent taking their kid along with them for the ride. To see the news reports one could be forgiven for thinking she was a lone traveller, aside from the crew. There are also two cameramen so I expect there'll be some lucrative commercial vlogging to pay their fees and for the charter of the yacht.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

16th August 2019, 03:51 PM	#326
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,174	Originally Posted by Vixen Her dad is with her so it's not much different from a parent taking their kid along with them for the ride. To see the news reports one could be forgiven for thinking she was a lone traveller, aside from the crew. There are also two cameramen so I expect there'll be some lucrative commercial vlogging to pay their fees and for the charter of the yacht. Charter for the yacht? I thought you said Greta's parents bought it for her. It and the whole crew. Can her parents do anything right in your eyes? Also, why are you still so determined to deprive Greta Thunberg of any agency? Are you jealous that she's doing more at her age than you've managed to do during your whole life, so it just has to be her parents?
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

17th August 2019, 01:58 AM	#327
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 22,687	Originally Posted by uke2se Charter for the yacht? I thought you said Greta's parents bought it for her. It and the whole crew. Can her parents do anything right in your eyes? Also, why are you still so determined to deprive Greta Thunberg of any agency? Are you jealous that she's doing more at her age than you've managed to do during your whole life, so it just has to be her parents? From Twitter: https://twitter.com/thehistoryguy/st...12074861199360 Quote: Dan Snow @thehistoryguy At around Greta's age Alexander was subduing Thrace and crushing the Illyrians. Joan scattered the English at Orleans. Prince Hal hunted Glyndwr across Wales. It's our aged society that is unusual. Not Greta. I wonder if she'll see any mermaids?
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending Last edited by jimbob; 17th August 2019 at 02:01 AM.

17th August 2019, 02:01 AM	#328
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 8,085	I went to Devil's Point in Plymouth to see Greta off on her journey to the US. Here's a photo I took of her waving at me:

17th August 2019, 02:06 AM	#329
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 22,687	Originally Posted by jimbob From Twitter: https://twitter.com/thehistoryguy/st...12074861199360 God, the replies to that tweet are depressing. Ad-hominem and whataboutism galore.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending

17th August 2019, 02:09 AM	#330
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 8,085	You can follow her boat's progress across the Atlantic here: www.borisherrmannracing.com/a-race-we-must-win

17th August 2019, 03:19 AM	#331
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,860	Originally Posted by Matthew Best I went to Devil's Point in Plymouth to see Greta off on her journey to the US. Here's a photo I took of her waving at me: Good show. I wish I was there.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

17th August 2019, 08:55 AM	#332
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 6,769	There's something perversely comical about adults literally resorting to schoolyard style bullying against a teenage youth.
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann

17th August 2019, 09:21 AM	#333
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,128	Why is she going? She has nothing to contribute.

17th August 2019, 10:02 AM	#334
Myriad The Clarity Is Devastating Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Betwixt Posts: 17,274	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Why is she going? She has nothing to contribute. Why are you opposed to her going? It seems you think she does have something to contribute, which you'd prefer she didn't.
	__________________ A zømbie once bit my sister...

17th August 2019, 10:11 AM	#335
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,128	Originally Posted by Myriad Why are you opposed to her going? It seems you think she does have something to contribute, which you'd prefer she didn't. How do you reach that conclusion? I literally indicated the issue is don't be there if you are not really contributing. There are other places you can go and hang around people with no power making no contributions. Like this forum. Though admittedly, my objection is more with her December leg of the trip than this one.
	Last edited by BobTheCoward; 17th August 2019 at 10:13 AM.

17th August 2019, 10:55 AM	#336
Myriad The Clarity Is Devastating Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Betwixt Posts: 17,274	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward How do you reach that conclusion? I literally indicated the issue is don't be there if you are not really contributing. There are other places you can go and hang around people with no power making no contributions. Like this forum. Though admittedly, my objection is more with her December leg of the trip than this one. Well, that might be a believable excuse, if you had some sort of track record of being consistently opposed to people being places where they weren't really contributing. That's something that happens pretty often, for instance with sports spectators, protestors, bloggers and other amateur journalists, tourists, non-presenting conference attendees, sightseers and so forth. But you've singled out Thunberg on that basis. Curious, and not really plausible. I think my original assessment still stands up pretty well.
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17th August 2019, 11:00 AM	#337
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,128	Originally Posted by Myriad Well, that might be a believable excuse, if you had some sort of track record of being consistently opposed to people being places where they weren't really contributing. That's something that happens pretty often, for instance with sports spectators, protestors, bloggers and other amateur journalists, tourists, non-presenting conference attendees, sightseers and so forth. But you've singled out Thunberg on that basis. Curious, and not really plausible. I think my original assessment still stands up pretty well. I definitely oppose live sporting event attendance.

17th August 2019, 11:19 AM	#338
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 20,404	Originally Posted by theprestige Probably because I don't think it's a valid point. Just to check, cos I missed your answer last time: You don't believe global warming is happening? Or do you? Or do you believe it's not man made?
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 20,404	__________________ Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]

17th August 2019, 11:24 AM	#339
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 20,404	Originally Posted by Arcade22 There's something perversely comical about adults literally resorting to schoolyard style bullying against a teenage youth. She scares them. A lot. They know that the usual tactics of obfuscate, ad hom, distract and vilify look extremely petty when leveled at the young. She scares the **** out of them because people are listening to her. It's why they descend to what they view as insults like 'her parents helped'.
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 20,404	__________________ Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]

17th August 2019, 12:43 PM	#340
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,174	Originally Posted by 3point14 Just to check, cos I missed your answer last time: You don't believe global warming is happening? Or do you? Or do you believe it's not man made? The vogue amongst many right wingers nowadays is to be nihilistic about climate change. This is because they have lost the argument about whether or not it's real in the eyes of the general public. The trick now is to get people so apathetic about it so they see any action as meaningless. It's not a completely new tactic, but it seems to be the main focus nowadays, at least online. The crazies still deny it, of course, as do many of the loonier politicians, but the big dogs on the right know when to fold a losing hand. I'm not saying theprestige is knowingly using this tactic. I'm sure he just follows the leader.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

17th August 2019, 01:04 PM	#341
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Suomi Posts: 20,227	Originally Posted by uke2se Charter for the yacht? I thought you said Greta's parents bought it for her. It and the whole crew. Can her parents do anything right in your eyes? Also, why are you still so determined to deprive Greta Thunberg of any agency? Are you jealous that she's doing more at her age than you've managed to do during your whole life, so it just has to be her parents? Not at all. I can remember the scares about nuclear war. Every generation has their own cause. I did climate change from a business POV as a case study. Companies producing and selling solar panels were making huge profits and there was a scandal when quite a few of them went under, taking their creditors' monies with them. If you look up the Thunbergs on Google you will will see Greta is backed by profit making organisations hoping to cash in on the green economy. All this gumpf that no-one is allowed to dare say a sceptical word because Greta is a 'sixteen-year-old child with autism' is a logical fallacy. Greta is sincere but her parents and the big corporations pushing her forward are rubbing their hands in glee and can hear the kerching sounds the more PR she gets. I am sorry if an obvious truth is too hard for you to bear but I am not going to act as though Greta is some kind of messiah.
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17th August 2019, 01:05 PM	#342
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Suomi Posts: 20,227	Originally Posted by Matthew Best I went to Devil's Point in Plymouth to see Greta off on her journey to the US. Here's a photo I took of her waving at me: Great pic. Is that her dad at the back keeping out of the lime light?
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

17th August 2019, 01:13 PM	#343
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,174	Originally Posted by Vixen Not at all. I can remember the scares about nuclear war. Every generation has their own cause. I did climate change from a business POV as a case study. Companies producing and selling solar panels were making huge profits and there was a scandal when quite a few of them went under, taking their creditors' monies with them. Ok, so the reason you deny Greta any agency is because some green companies took creditors' money? That doesn't make any sense. Originally Posted by Vixen If you look up the Thunbergs on Google you will will see Greta is backed by profit making organisations hoping to cash in on the green economy. I'm sure they are backing her cause. Are they directly sponsoring her? Can you prove that they are? Did you know that all sponsors for the yacht have had their logos stripped for this voyage? Originally Posted by Vixen All this gumpf that no-one is allowed to dare say a sceptical word because Greta is a 'sixteen-year-old child with autism' is a logical fallacy. No, that sentence is a logical fallacy, specifically a straw man fallacy. Originally Posted by Vixen Greta is sincere but her parents and the big corporations pushing her forward are rubbing their hands in glee and can hear the kerching sounds the more PR she gets. I asked you to prove this before. Put up or shut up. Originally Posted by Vixen I am sorry if an obvious truth is too hard for you to bear but I am not going to act as though Greta is some kind of messiah. If it's so obvious you shouldn't have any trouble at all proving it. Thus far you have failed spectacularly, despite being called on your BS multiple times. Stop running your mouth and start producing evidence.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

17th August 2019, 01:16 PM	#344
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,174	Originally Posted by Vixen Great pic. Is that her dad at the back keeping out of the lime light? Him being present would no doubt be a bad thing because the sneak is trying to keep away from the cameras (by going on his daughters highly publicized trip), and likewise, him not being there would be a bad thing because he would be leaving his vulnerable daughter alone on a boat trip over the Atlantic. Am I right, Vixen? Poor guy just can't catch a break from you. Guess he should be glad nobody important listens to you, unlike his daughter.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

17th August 2019, 01:28 PM	#345
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Suomi Posts: 20,227	Originally Posted by uke2se Him being present would no doubt be a bad thing because the sneak is trying to keep away from the cameras (by going on his daughters highly publicized trip), and likewise, him not being there would be a bad thing because he would be leaving his vulnerable daughter alone on a boat trip over the Atlantic. Am I right, Vixen? Poor guy just can't catch a break from you. Guess he should be glad nobody important listens to you, unlike his daughter. He and his wife are ardent 'green' activists, are they not? Because of their social status they have had reams of articles in Dagens Nyheter, have they not? So why doesn't Greta and her parents all pose together? I'll tell you why, because the carefully constructed image of 'Greta the lone warrior' is a great media magnet. Rather like the secretly married pop stars of yesteryear had to pretend they were single so as not to put the fans off and ruin their earning power.
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17th August 2019, 01:46 PM	#346
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,349	Originally Posted by Vixen So why doesn't Greta and her parents all pose together? Like this?
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17th August 2019, 01:50 PM	#347
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 22,687	He's just hungry for the attention. Why doesn't he stay in the background? Why did he keep her mother out of the picture?
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending

17th August 2019, 02:30 PM	#348
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,174	Originally Posted by Vixen He and his wife are ardent 'green' activists, are they not? Because of their social status they have had reams of articles in Dagens Nyheter, have they not? The father is a fairly well known actor and the mother is an opera singer. They are bound to have many articles printed about them. But, again, your reply to my post has nothing to do with my post. I don't understand why you bother quoting me when you are going to discuss something completely different to what I was discussing. Again, it's like you don't understand the basics of human communication. Originally Posted by Vixen So why doesn't Greta and her parents all pose together? I'll tell you why, because the carefully constructed image of 'Greta the lone warrior' is a great media magnet. Which percentage of photos of them posing together would disprove this nonsense for you? And if that percentage is too high, will you immediately flip and claim that it proves that they are behind her efforts? Originally Posted by Vixen Rather like the secretly married pop stars of yesteryear had to pretend they were single so as not to put the fans off and ruin their earning power. I don't even...
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 Last edited by uke2se; 17th August 2019 at 02:45 PM.

17th August 2019, 02:43 PM	#349
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,128	As I said, this is less of a deal than her December portion. This summit literally has a youth summit (which she is too young for)? Because important things have youth summits. Remember how important that youth summit was in planning operation overlord?

17th August 2019, 02:47 PM	#350
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,174	Originally Posted by jimbob He's just hungry for the attention. Why doesn't he stay in the background? Why did he keep her mother out of the picture? Surely the lack of pictures of Greta posing with George Soros proves that he's behind her efforts, doesn't it? I mean, why aren't they posing together? It is, of course, because the image George Soros has created for Greta is that of a lone warrior. It's all very logical.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

17th August 2019, 03:16 PM	#351
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,860	Originally Posted by uke2se Charter for the yacht? I thought you said Greta's parents bought it for her. It and the whole crew. Can her parents do anything right in your eyes? Also, why are you still so determined to deprive Greta Thunberg of any agency? Are you jealous that she's doing more at her age than you've managed to do during your whole life, so it just has to be her parents? I think you’ve nailed it.
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17th August 2019, 03:22 PM	#352
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,128	Originally Posted by lionking I think you’ve nailed it. This would be an interesting comment if she had done something.

17th August 2019, 03:47 PM	#353
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 22,687	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward This would be an interesting comment if she had done something. I know you like to play Spock, but raising global warming on the political agenda is an achievement.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending

17th August 2019, 04:03 PM	#354
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,128	Originally Posted by jimbob I know you like to play Spock, but raising global warming on the political agenda is an achievement. That was awesome when the first million people did it. Al Gore for example. Through no fault of her own, the returns are extremely diminished.

17th August 2019, 05:50 PM	#355
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Suomi Posts: 20,227	Originally Posted by uke2se The father is a fairly well known actor and the mother is an opera singer. They are bound to have many articles printed about them. But, again, your reply to my post has nothing to do with my post. I don't understand why you bother quoting me when you are going to discuss something completely different to what I was discussing. Again, it's like you don't understand the basics of human communication. Which percentage of photos of them posing together would disprove this nonsense for you? And if that percentage is too high, will you immediately flip and claim that it proves that they are behind her efforts? I don't even... The articles aren't about them. It is pages of Malena hammering home the climate change message. Malena and Svante (named after Svante Arnnehius, not Svante Sture) are archetypal proud parents living vicariously through their daughter/s. Good luck to them but let's not pretend Greta is any random schoolgirl.
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