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Old 28th December 2011, 01:34 PM   #1
lister
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Can someone explain "Life of Pi" to me?

I read it a couple of years ago. It was quite good taken literally, until it all went a bit weird near the end with him talking to himself or something (can't really remember now).

I remember reading the tagline "It'll make you believe in God", which intrigued me, but I found nothing revelationary at all that I remember.

There was the initial section about him investigating three religions which was fine, but seemed irrelevant to what followed. Then there was the whole tiger, zebra boat thing, a weird island and then the wierd delusional bit.

Then at the end he's rescued and it's suggested that it's all an allegory and there's an alternate story with real people, but either could be true, and that's like God for some reason.

Now I'm notoriously bad at interpreting allegorical stuff, my mind seems to be too literal to see it, so I'd be grateful if someone could explain the amazing truth that will make me believe in God, and also what the island and weird talking to himself bits were about.

The most meaning I could get from it was "Some people prefer made up stories because they're more exciting than reality, so they prefer the idea of God to a meaningless universe" ?
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Old 28th December 2011, 08:06 PM   #2
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I had a bit the same problem, and it seemed to me that the basic message was that as long as the end result is the same you can't argue the belief that got you there, or perhaps a kind of corruption of the pragmatic maxim, that two stories that end up at the same point are equivalent, so why not pick the one you like. A nicely written book that I ended up finding very annoying.
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Old 28th December 2011, 08:33 PM   #3
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Yeah I got about halfway though it - What ever brilliance of literature this book is - It was sailing way over my head
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Old 28th December 2011, 08:42 PM   #4
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Well, I think...

The story itself is supposed to be very interesting and exciting. We basically go along with the story for the most part because despite being a bit improbable, if you don't suspend your disbelief willingly, it sort of works.

Then there's that bit at the island which is just weird... I didn't understand any of that except perhaps to throw our original sense of belief for another loop.

Then when Pi is picked up by the Japanese ship he is told a far more rational story. That there had been no animals at all and it was just other survivors including his mum and the cook on the boat and not those animals.

I think... he's trying to say that when there are two possible stories, choose the best one. And in this case, according to his own belief, the best story seems to be to believe in God.


Bear in mind my caveats there are to with what I think the authors beliefs are not that I subscribe to the idea that a world explained by the existence of God and magic is better than a world described mechanistically. I just think that maybe the author was going for that.
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Old 28th December 2011, 11:11 PM   #5
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I read it about 18 months ago and thought it was a remarkable work. I didn't recall any claim about believing in God, so I dug it out. My copy (published by Canongate in the UK) makes no such claim on the front or back cover. There is a quote from the NY Times book review on the back cover saying "[It] could renew your faith..." but goes on "...in the ability of novelists to invest even the most outrageous scenario with plausible life".

Inside, there's a couple of pages of high praise from various sources, which includes the Scotsman newspaper's "Impressive enough to make you, as the old man said, believe in God". I don't catch the 'as the old man said' allusion, but it isn't claiming that reading Pi will make you believe in god through the story, at most it's saying that Martel's work is that wondrous that you might (as, perhaps, with a sunset or mountain range) ascribe the existence of such a talent to the work of a higher power.

Let's not forget that this book won the Booker prize in 2002. Not that I rate every film that won an oscar, but appreciators of the art of novel writing rate this book. Here in a largely scientific, rationalist forum a work of magical storytelling that leaves you with more questions than it answers is perhaps bound to meet with objections.

Art (which includes literature) is not science, but science isn't (no, really, it isn't) all. As so often here, I'm reminded of Charles Babbage. I'll let Simon Singh pick up the story:

Babbage had spent many years studying death rates, so he was annoyed when he read a verse from Alfred Tennyson's poem The Vision of Sin which contained the lines:

"Every moment dies a man,
Every moment one is born."

Being a keen statistician, Babbage took exception to the line because it implied that the population of the world was static, when in fact it was increasing. He wrote to Tennyson and offered him a correction to his "otherwise beautiful" poem: "I would suggest that in the next edition of your poem you have it read - 'Every moment dies a man, Every moment one and a sixteenth is born.'"
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Old 22nd December 2012, 08:40 PM   #6
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Life of Pi: The poem or the truth?

I just saw the movie and googling after seeing it found this (in here (Spoiler beware, if you have not read the book or seen the movie do not visit the link): http://www.gradesaver.com/life-of-pi...-guide/quotes/ ):


Quote:

Quote:
"As an aside, story of sole survivor, Mr. Piscine Molitor Patel, Indian citizen, is an astounding story of courage and endurance in the face of extraordinarily difficult and tragic circumstances. In the experience of this investigator, his story is unparalleled in the history of shipwrecks. Very few castaways can claim to have survived so long at sea as Mr. Patel, and none in the company of an adult Bengal tiger."


This passage is the last paragraph of Life of Pi. It is an appropriate ending, because it essentially represents Mr. Okamoto accepting Pi's first story, and by extension, accepting God.

Funnly, I an Ignostic, prefer the first story.... while my girlfriend, a believer (which does not like organized religion but does believe in the christian God) says that, to stay faithful with the truth, one must disregard the first story and accept only the second...
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Old 23rd December 2012, 02:24 AM   #7
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I picked up the book for no other reason than its mention in Katawa Shoujo. I thought the story was well-written, but the author's message was wishy-washy, immature, and a bit smug. Almost stopped reading entirely at the ridiculous "atheist deathbed conversion" line, but ended up continuing and skimming through the rest.

Embracing ignorance, faith for the sake of faith, your brain is god, etc. It's the philosophy of someone who has just broken out of an angsty phase, but hasn't actually progressed beyond it.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 04:28 AM   #8
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I started a thread on this question, but it got bogged down with pettifogging.

I went to this movie expecting to see some attempt to "prove God", as the visitor says to Pi early on. What I saw was Pi surviving. Big deal. Ship sinks, all the animals except one eventually die, and Pi's family and the crew die as well. Nice god you got there.

I also found his multi-disciplinary attitude amusing.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 04:52 AM   #9
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I have actually a different take on this.


For me it is more about the willingness at the end to accept the more fantastic upbeat story, and ignoring the less upbeat and more terrible but far more realistic story.

In other word it is not about believing in god, but fleeing reality in favor of märchen.
That people willingly believe a lie rather than face reality.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 04:56 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
I have actually a different take on this.


For me it is more about the willingness at the end to accept the more fantastic upbeat story, and ignoring the less upbeat and more terrible but far more realistic story.

In other word it is not about believing in god, but fleeing reality in favor of märchen.
That people willingly believe a lie rather than face reality.
My issue is they come right out and say "And prove God" in the movie. Pi does the standard dodge there, but it's out there and some folks will come away saying, "Yeah, it did" without thinking. (This is fallout from a debate I'm having with a fundy over this elsewhere, so it may sound disjointed, with good reason.)
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Old 23rd December 2012, 01:15 PM   #11
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I've yet to see the movie, but did read the book 4 or 5 years ago.

The whole god-bothering thing completely passed me by.

Pi is Richard Parker, the other animals being those people that made it into the lifeboat, too.

The choice that is explicitly not given is that Pi, rather than being blessed by god(s) to survive his ordeal, has been the ultimate survivor without any divine intervention.

He wasn't 'allowed' to survive, he just did, by the all that was within him to do so.

Isn't it a much 'better' story to pretend that fluffy-wuffy Pi isn't the deluded predator inside us all?
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Old 23rd December 2012, 01:53 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by CTB View Post
Isn't it a much 'better' story to pretend that fluffy-wuffy Pi isn't the deluded predator inside us all?
He can't be a predator, he's a vegemite.

I spoke with some fundy relatives who have seen this and they were gushing. Until I started in on the plot.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 05:21 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
My issue is they come right out and say "And prove God" in the movie. Pi does the standard dodge there, but it's out there and some folks will come away saying, "Yeah, it did" without thinking. (This is fallout from a debate I'm having with a fundy over this elsewhere, so it may sound disjointed, with good reason.)
I'm trying to work out if you are disappointed that the "proof of God" isn't convincing or if you are commenting on others arguing that it is.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 05:39 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
He can't be a predator, he's a vegemite.


I had just filed it all under " Pi Goes Mental While Adrift At Sea "

Good read, though, and I am looking forward to seeing the film. Didn't realise some god-botherers were claiming a victory for common unsense. A bit unsure how they can.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 05:40 PM   #15
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Is it true the movie is 3.14 hours long?
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Old 23rd December 2012, 05:52 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
He can't be a predator, he's a vegemite.

I spoke with some fundy relatives who have seen this and they were gushing. Until I started in on the plot.
I'm not a fundy nor even a theist but I gush over this film. Taken purely as an adventure story with a subplot about the question of gods' existence, it's a masterful work of art and a thrilling cinematic experience. I'm interested in knowing about these plot holes you're certain you've discovered. Let's discuss them, if you're game.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 05:55 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I'm trying to work out if you are disappointed that the "proof of God" isn't convincing or if you are commenting on others arguing that it is.
I'm an atheist.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 05:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
I'm not a fundy nor even a theist but I gush over this film. Taken purely as an adventure story with a subplot about the question of gods' existence, it's a masterful work of art and a thrilling cinematic experience. I'm interested in knowing about these plot holes you're certain you've discovered. Let's discuss them, if you're game.
Been through all that in the other thread. Clicker training a starving tiger wasn't mentioned there because it's flippin' absurd.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 06:02 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
I'm an atheist.
Yes, but I still don't understand the bit following "My issue is..."
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Old 23rd December 2012, 06:49 PM   #20
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Never read the book but saw the movie.

I think the movie was more about mental health when faced with traumatic experiences. Pi couldn't deal with what he witnessed, and what he did. So his mind conjured up the images of animals to help preserve (what was left of) his sanity. The rest of the boat story deals with him wrestling the new animal he's unleashed.

BTW If you've seen the movie you might recall Richard Parker symbolically jumping out from underneath Pi's crotch, right as the hyena is attacking the orangutan.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 07:53 PM   #21
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Inversely, I have read the book but not seen the movie. The book was awful, so I have no desire to see the movie.

The book doesn't seek to "prove" that God exists. It simply tries to posit that, in the complete absence of any evidence on either side, it's better to believe than to not believe, because it makes a better story.

Sadly, that deeply annoyed me. I would prefer to believe in fairies, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster (may His Noodles be praised), but I will wait until I have a reasonable shot at the actual truth.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 08:41 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by EventHorizon View Post
Is it true the movie is 3.14 hours long?
I see what you did there..

I read the book about 10 years ago on a trip through Thailand when all the hippies were raving about it. I liked it, for sure, right up until the end. OK the sargassum island was stretching however I refrained from admitting to anyone that I didn't "get it" in that the book was supposed to be some sort of life changing insight into metaphysics and religion.

I just liked it as a story, I like tigers. Yea, I'm shallow.

Maybe the book was suggesting that it doesn't matter what you believe as long as it brings you comfort ?
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Old 24th December 2012, 01:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by EventHorizon View Post
Is it true the movie is 3.14 hours long?
No, but it is shown in 3.14D

(not my joke, wish it was)
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Old 24th December 2012, 05:09 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I see what you did there..

I read the book about 10 years ago on a trip through Thailand when all the hippies were raving about it. I liked it, for sure, right up until the end. OK the sargassum island was stretching however I refrained from admitting to anyone that I didn't "get it" in that the book was supposed to be some sort of life changing insight into metaphysics and religion.
That's what bugged me. "You'll finally see proof of God!" from a person who was bugging me to read the book, hoping it would "cure my atheism". Sadly for him, I wasn't impressed.
Quote:
I just liked it as a story, I like tigers. Yea, I'm shallow.
I volunteered at a tiger sanctuary for years. I think that tiger would have had a tasty pastry for din-din along about day four.

BTW, ever wonder about the tiger and the baboon being under the cover together without fighting?
Quote:
Maybe the book was suggesting that it doesn't matter what you believe as long as it brings you comfort ?
I believe I'll have a beer.
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Old 24th December 2012, 06:04 AM   #25
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Thanks a lot.
I had no interest in this movie or the book. Now I want to see it.
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Old 24th December 2012, 06:13 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by JFrankA View Post
Thanks a lot.
I had no interest in this movie or the book. Now I want to see it.
The photography was stunning. The plot was surreal. The evidence was absent.
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Old 24th December 2012, 06:54 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
The photography was stunning. The plot was surreal. The evidence was absent.
Now that sounds like some tag line!!!!
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Old 24th December 2012, 08:50 AM   #28
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I saw the trailer for this last week when we went to see The Hobbit. I think it was the first time I almost died of boredom while watching a movie trailer.
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Old 24th December 2012, 12:11 PM   #29
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i watched the movie a couple of weeks ago. very powerful visually, but that's about it, therefore i don't think i would enjoy the book as much.

at the beginning of the movie pi looks into different religions looking beyond the story each one tells to focus on the final message. for this reason i interpret the ending as if the real miracle was the kid surviving for so many months as a castaway and the writer (and viewer) believe the version of the story he's prepared to believe. when pi ends telling both stories and asks the writer which one he believes, the writer is practically trapped because he never got the choice of not believing either one and pi concludes "so it goes with god".

maybe i'm wrong and i'm missing the whole point, but that's how i saw it.

cheers
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Old 24th December 2012, 12:36 PM   #30
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Maybe the message is that faith and delusion are the same.
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Old 24th December 2012, 12:47 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
maybe the message is that faith and delusion are the same.
ftfy
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Old 24th December 2012, 02:09 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post

I volunteered at a tiger sanctuary for years. I think that tiger would have had a tasty pastry for din-din along about day four.
Wow, that must have been a cool gig. Right after reading the book I went to this place. That was before it became controversial and of course I got a completely different story about the origins and purpose of the place than anything I've subsequently read online.

While posing with the tiger I was thinking of myself spending time with it on a lifeboat.

I believe in beer too
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Old 24th December 2012, 02:13 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Wow, that must have been a cool gig. Right after reading the book I went to this place. That was before it became controversial and of course I got a completely different story about the origins and purpose of the place than anything I've subsequently read online.

While posing with the tiger I was thinking of myself spending time with it on a lifeboat.

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I loved it. When I left Indiana and came to St. Loser I found The Wild Canid Survival and Research Center. I spend as much time as I can volunteering there.
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Old 24th December 2012, 04:52 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Maybe the message is that faith and delusion are the same.
That certainly is one of the possible messages one can get from the book. I have not seen (and am in no hurry to see) the movie, but the book leaves a good deal of room for an interpretation, not so much that we should use the wrong side of Ockham's razor, but that this is what religion does.
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Old 25th December 2012, 04:16 PM   #35
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Guy on a lifeboat can't handle the truth, hallucinates a lot.
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Old 25th December 2012, 04:19 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Guy on a lifeboat can't handle the truth, hallucinates a lot.
But God's watching over him, so he makes it. I have this on good authority, my retard cousins.
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Old 25th December 2012, 09:54 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by mrgrouch View Post

when pi ends telling both stories and asks the writer which one he believes, the writer is practically trapped because he never got the choice of not believing either one and pi concludes "so it goes with god".
That is the part that is so mind boggling to me... what is the writer saying there? That God is a fantastic unbelievable story that can not stand scrutiny? If I were a believer... this book would have made me an atheist...
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Old 26th December 2012, 04:33 AM   #38
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I sometimes think the second version was bolted on to end of that story because the author thought a pure fantasy story wouldn't sell.
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Old 26th December 2012, 04:34 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Guy on a lifeboat can't handle the truth, hallucinates a lot.
Last hallucination before the whole thing recirculates is Jack Nicholson in a Marine uniform and Jopker make-up screaming " You want the truth!!? You can't handle the truth!!!) Fade to Black.






Pi wakes up back on the ship. Hears and alarm...........
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Old 26th December 2012, 04:36 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Guy on a lifeboat can't handle the truth, hallucinates a lot.
Last hallucination before the whole thing recirculates is Jack Nicholson in a Marine uniform and Joker make-up screaming " You want the truth!!? You can't handle the truth!!!) Fade to Black.






Pi wakes up back on the ship. Hears an alarm...........




Re-enters the Twilo Zone. Eats walnuts as he waits in his lifeboat. Not alone.






VERY not alone................Fade to black with blood red trailing down from the top........

Last edited by fuelair; 26th December 2012 at 04:38 PM.
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