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Old 25th October 2020, 08:32 AM   #1761
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
This genocide is caused by corruption, there are plenty of natural plants that make people sleep without side effet but these products are not considered by doctors because they can't be patented by pharmas to make money with it.
It's not a genocide. You might want to look up the word you are using. Genocide is targeted against a population with specific characteristic, and being an insomniac is not one.

Pharmas can and do make money off non-patented plants. Bayer, for example, probably makes boatloads of cash from the sale of aspirin. There is still money to be made in the growing, processing and sale of the plants in question.

My doctor has prescribed aspirin, well not prescribed as you don't need a prescription, but I do take one a day or so.

If your doctor is not considering something, there is probably a medical reason for it. Such as dosing and purity. Or the lack of actual, testable science. Have you asked them about it? Not Dr. Google, not some quack, or someone pushing an "alternative" agenda, but an actual front line, mainstream GP who is treating you?
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Old 25th October 2020, 09:11 AM   #1762
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Doctors are the product of a deep corrupted health care system by pharmas, then anything natural to prescribe is useless because it cannot be under a patent by pharmas to make money.

Lucky you, somehow you have not had reason to depend on the medical system.

I have. I know it saved my life. As did "big pharma", since I was treated with a brand spanking new "artificial" drug after emerging from ICU after 5 days. Guess what? It worked and I am still here.

Your mad plan would make me dead. It's what you appear to want.
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Old 25th October 2020, 11:27 AM   #1763
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Lucky you, somehow you have not had reason to depend on the medical system.

I have. I know it saved my life. As did "big pharma", since I was treated with a brand spanking new "artificial" drug after emerging from ICU after 5 days. Guess what? It worked and I am still here.

Your mad plan would make me dead. It's what you appear to want.
You are a particular case, most people are dead after taking sleeping pills.
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Old 25th October 2020, 11:32 AM   #1764
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Lucky you, somehow you have not had reason to depend on the medical system.

I have. I know it saved my life. As did "big pharma", since I was treated with a brand spanking new "artificial" drug after emerging from ICU after 5 days. Guess what? It worked and I am still here.

Your mad plan would make me dead. It's what you appear to want.
Heck, I continue to be able to work (climb ladders and scaffolding) only because of a chimeric tumor necrosis factor inhibitor that keeps my immune system from attacking my joints and fusing them basically immobile. Like most treatments there are risks, just as there are with untreated or alternatively treated medical conditions. The simple act of injecting it every week carries risks, just in and of itself. The dominating principle being informed consent.
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Old 25th October 2020, 12:00 PM   #1765
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You are a particular case, most people are dead after taking sleeping pills.

Not true, as already noted, 5 times as many people are dead after not taking sleeping pills.

Once again, the study refereed to in the article you linked says no such thing.

First, as already noted before, the association is only with being prescribed such medications not actually taking any of them, at all.

Second, the association is only to a slightly greater probability of being dead after a given period of time, when simply being prescribed such medications.

Third, even if the first two were as you try to portray, a causal relation to actually taking the medication and actually being dead as opposed to just some slightly increased probability of death over a given period. It still wouldn't be "most" of the people who took such pills, as I recall the probability increase was only 3 to 30 percent.

So you've now gone from simply misrepresenting what the study said based on what the article you cited said about that study. To flat out lying about it, as neither of them said anything even remotely like what you just claimed
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Old 25th October 2020, 12:30 PM   #1766
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Not true, as already noted, 5 times as many people are dead after not taking sleeping pills.

Once again, the study refereed to in the article you linked says no such thing.
Yes it is:

The researchers estimated between 300,000 to 500,000 excess deaths each year in the United States alone associated with hypnotic use.
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Old 25th October 2020, 02:12 PM   #1767
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I see we have elided from "caused by" to "associated with". This is a definite improvement.
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Old 25th October 2020, 03:04 PM   #1768
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Yes it is:

The researchers estimated between 300,000 to 500,000 excess deaths each year in the United States alone associated with hypnotic use.
Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
I see we have elided from "caused by" to "associated with". This is a definite improvement.
And still nowhere even close to "most people are dead after taking sleeping pills"

Also since actual use was never confirmed the study can only support a claim 'The researchers estimated between 300,000 to 500,000 excess deaths each year in the United States alone associated with hypnotic prescriptions'. Even that being very tenuous as it was an estimation based solely on a slightly greater probability of death in a given period. Extrapolated from a sample size of just over 0.03 % (like 3,000 people if I recall correctly) of the number of people over 20 who reported using prescription sleep aids in a month in a 2005 to 2010 survey.

Prescription Sleep Aid Use Among Adults: United States, 2005–2010

Further, the same data yields that even at 500,000 estimated deaths, it is just 5% of the population of people over 20 who reported using sleeping pills in a month in that survey (about 9.89 million by my back of the envelope calculation). Meaning most (95%) of people who have taken prescription sleep aids don't even fall within those estimated deaths.

Now, no one is saying any deaths from the use of, or even the lack of use of, medications is a good thing. However, just pulling trivially demonstrably false crap out of your arse, ain't good either.
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Old 25th October 2020, 04:34 PM   #1769
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
And still nowhere even close to "most people are dead after taking sleeping pills"

Also since actual use was never confirmed the study can only support a claim 'The researchers estimated between 300,000 to 500,000 excess deaths each year in the United States alone associated with hypnotic prescriptions'. Even that being very tenuous as it was an estimation based solely on a slightly greater probability of death in a given period. Extrapolated from a sample size of just over 0.03 % (like 3,000 people if I recall correctly) of the number of people over 20 who reported using prescription sleep aids in a month in a 2005 to 2010 survey.

Prescription Sleep Aid Use Among Adults: United States, 20052010

Further, the same data yields that even at 500,000 estimated deaths, it is just 5% of the population of people over 20 who reported using sleeping pills in a month in that survey (about 9.89 million by my back of the envelope calculation). Meaning most (95%) of people who have taken prescription sleep aids don't even fall within those estimated deaths.

Now, no one is saying any deaths from the use of, or even the lack of use of, medications is a good thing. However, just pulling trivially demonstrably false crap out of your arse, ain't good either.

Don't let Gaetan know that 100% of the people who drink water ...die.
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Old 25th October 2020, 04:51 PM   #1770
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Don't let Gaetan know that 100% of the people who drink water ...die.

Well, it can be toxic to a human body if enough is ingested.


Water Poisoning

So that's two out of three. Toxic to a human body and most people (all) die after using it. If only some method or process of production from an otherwise 'natural' source was patentable, that would ring all three of Gaetan's conspiracy bells.


Oh wait....

Rainwater harvesting system

That's three strikes, water, yerrrr out'a here!!!
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Old 25th October 2020, 06:00 PM   #1771
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The other reasons that I don't drink water: according to homeopathy, it's super deadly, and fish have sex in it. That's why I drink vodka.
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Old 26th October 2020, 06:57 AM   #1772
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You are a particular case, most people are dead after taking sleeping pills.
Have you been prescribed said pills?

If yes, why aren't you dead? Remember, it's the prescription that kills, not the consumption.

You need to salt and burn the prescription to be safe.
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Old 26th October 2020, 10:01 AM   #1773
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Have you been prescribed said pills?

If yes, why aren't you dead? Remember, it's the prescription that kills, not the consumption.

You need to salt and burn the prescription to be safe.
No to be really safe you need to feed it to python - why? Reasons beyond the ken of normal men but known to the great man himself.
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Old 27th October 2020, 07:11 AM   #1774
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
No to be really safe you need to feed it to python - why? Reasons beyond the ken of normal men but known to the great man himself.
Clearly, you don't watch Supernatural. To get rid of ghosts, you find the bones of the dead, apply salt and burn. Salt keeps out all sorts of bad juju.
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Old 31st October 2020, 03:04 PM   #1775
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See the movie Intereflexions from Peter Joseph

https://www.interreflectionsmovie.com/
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Old 1st November 2020, 09:10 AM   #1776
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
See the movie Intereflexions from Peter Joseph

https://www.interreflectionsmovie.com/
A two and a half hour science fiction satire movie proves what?

Hard pass.

Is this your solution to insomnia? Or did the subject magically change again?
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Old 1st November 2020, 09:43 AM   #1777
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
See the movie Intereflexions from Peter Joseph

https://www.interreflectionsmovie.com/
From that website...

Quote:
InterReflections is a fantasy
So you admit you believe in fantasies?

Who knew?
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Old 2nd November 2020, 09:43 AM   #1778
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Peter Joseph is a loon. A nut job. Before you can introduce him as an expert, you kinda have to establish him as such. Which means overcoming his previous works, including his 9/11 conspiracy lies. Also his claims that the US income tax is unconstitutional. On that he is provably wrong. It's been tested in the courts. Totally constitutional. People in jail and heavily fined for his lies. He makes people, who are already in a bad position, in worse positions. For, get this, his own personal profit.

If he can be wrong about something so easily testable, why should we put any weight behind untestable claims?

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Old 2nd November 2020, 10:45 AM   #1779
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Peter Joseph is a loon. A nut job. Before you can introduce him as an expert, you kinda have to establish him as such. Which means overcoming his previous works, including his 9/11 conspiracy lies. Also his claims that the US income tax is unconstitutional. On that he is provably wrong. It's been tested in the courts. Totally constitutional. People in jail and heavily fined for his lies. He makes people, who are already in a bad position, in worse positions. For, get this, his own personal profit.

If he can be wrong about something so easily testable, why should we put any weight behind untestable claims?
Calomnies from you as usual, there is no need of income tax if people work for free and get free goods and services as reward.
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Old 2nd November 2020, 01:05 PM   #1780
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Calomnies from you as usual, there is no need of income tax if people work for free and get free goods and services as reward.
This is not about the need for an income tax, but his lies about them. Lies that enrich him, impoverish and inprison others. For someone so dead set against profit, your prophet here, is pure evil. His lies, lies that he knew were false before he spread them, has led to untold destruction. Both economic and personal. Lives destroyed, and not only are you totally OK with this, but you seem to support it. Still working on being the biggest butcher in history.

Funny that you support someone so transparently dishonest. And totally motivated by money profit. Odd that.
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Old 2nd November 2020, 01:14 PM   #1781
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Peter Joseph is a 16th amendment nut job, for those curious. Dan Evans rebuts the argument with facts. Had Joseph done any level of research he would known he was wrong, or he knows but that doesn't fatten his wallet.

http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#ratification
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Old 2nd November 2020, 02:15 PM   #1782
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Calomnies from you as usual, there is no need of income tax if people work for free and get free goods and services as reward.

Again, if the goods and services are a reward for work then neither the goods and services nor the work are "free". Obtaining such a "reword" costs the workers, well, their work and that work costs the society said "reward".
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Old 2nd November 2020, 03:35 PM   #1783
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Again, if the goods and services are a reward for work then neither the goods and services nor the work are "free". Obtaining such a "reword" costs the workers, well, their work and that work costs the society said "reward".
I know he won't accept this, but the police and the military are two groups of people you absolutely do not want to have people sub into from the layabouts at the employment center. I know the objection, that without money, that you won't need them, but that has never been true. People have always coveted what another person or group of people possess. If they get enough gumption up, they just go take them. If he doesn't believe that, he just needs to look at his own history in this thread. He wants a Tesla. Rather than earn the money to buy one, he just wants to take it.
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Old 2nd November 2020, 04:12 PM   #1784
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
I know he won't accept this, but the police and the military are two groups of people you absolutely do not want to have people sub into from the layabouts at the employment center. I know the objection, that without money, that you won't need them, but that has never been true. People have always coveted what another person or group of people possess. If they get enough gumption up, they just go take them. If he doesn't believe that, he just needs to look at his own history in this thread. He wants a Tesla. Rather than earn the money to buy one, he just wants to take it.
Heck, just the job i have, not everyone is cut out to do. We've had to let a number of people go just because they were too dangerous and couldn't keep their minds on what they were doing. One guy left a barricade to a one story drop open when he walked away. He was dismissed in minutes. Another guy just couldn't focus, he'd always unbolt the wrong thing, even after being instructed repeatably. He'd always loosen the belt mounting bracket bolts instead of the tensioning slide securing bolts. If the belt came loose and the unit came down it could have crushed his hands. Another guy just couldn't keep his feet on the ladder when working. He always had to try to put one foot on some piece of equipment. I had to repeatedly yell to him "Can you please not step on the toxic gas containment boxes!!!"*. While this ain't rocket science there ain't hardly a thing (from toxic gases to heavy metals and stuff that could burn you down to the bone, from X-rays and electron beams to high voltage and high energy RF, from just hundreds of pound weights 12 to 20 feet in the air to the potential of even just you falling from that height or grater) around here that wont kill you or seriously mess you up.

ETA:
* Just not something I ever thought I'd have to tell someone, particularly not again, and again and...
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Old 2nd November 2020, 08:50 PM   #1785
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
I know he won't accept this, but the police and the military are two groulieve that, he just needs to look at his own history in this thread. He wants a one, he just wants to take it.
I guess you are afraid to loose your job as income tax producer but when we'll get rid of money we'll find you a work more useful. Every body involve in tracking of money will find a job useful instead of wasting time doing unproductive work, then people will have more time off as more workers will do something productive that really give something to people.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 05:18 AM   #1786
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I guess you are afraid to loose your job as income tax producer but when we'll get rid of money we'll find you a work more useful.
And there you are again claiming that some unidentified "We" will decide what job to assign to everyone else. I am guessing that you will be part of the "We" and the rest of us must obey.

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Every body involve in tracking of money will find a job useful instead of wasting time doing unproductive work, then people will have more time off as more workers will do something productive that really give something to people.
Nope. That is not how anything works. Have you considered the numbers of people that you are consigning to mere subsistence? Of course not.

Perhaps you should.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 10:20 AM   #1787
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
I know he won't accept this, but the police and the military are two groulieve that, he just needs to look at his own history in this thread. He wants a one, he just wants to take it.
I guess you are afraid to loose your job as income tax producer but when we'll get rid of money we'll find you a work more useful. Every body involve in tracking of money will find a job useful instead of wasting time doing unproductive work, then people will have more time off as more workers will do something productive that really give something to people.
I once again advise you not to alter quotes in such a way that doesn't clearly indicate your changes. Leftus certainly never wrote the incoherent mess you just quoted as being from Leftus.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 11:32 AM   #1788
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
I once again advise you not to alter quotes in such a way that doesn't clearly indicate your changes. Leftus certainly never wrote the incoherent mess you just quoted as being from Leftus.
It took me a moment to figure out what was going on here. I thought for a moment that Leftus had caught a case of Covfefe 19 or something.

Gaetan, what the hell is a groulieve anyway?
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Old 3rd November 2020, 02:06 PM   #1789
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I guess you are afraid to loose your job as income tax producer but when we'll get rid of money we'll find you a work more useful. Every body involve in tracking of money will find a job useful instead of wasting time doing unproductive work, then people will have more time off as more workers will do something productive that really give something to people.
Why do you bother quoting people if you are just going to lie about what they say?

My job is to create the technical data, rules if you will, for the people who are updating the decades old tax system.

Also, who is this "we" you speak of? I've already decided on my job in your world. It's Warlord. I'm just going to take and take until someone stops me. It's free after all.

I've noticed that you ran away from your prophet, the profit seeking Peter Joseph who is willing to fleece people for his own well being, and send people to jail. Your thinking that what he is doing won't be a problem in your world suffers one major problem. He isn't living in your world. He is living out here in reality. And he is really harming people. I know, it's what you aspire to, but that doesn't make him as harmless as you are, wannabe Butcher.

You keep avoiding the main question - Why should we take this villain seriously as to his view of the world?
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Old 3rd November 2020, 02:09 PM   #1790
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Gaetan, what the hell is a groulieve anyway?
It's Butcher-ese for a topic change. We were talking about the villain Peter Joseph and his views that destroys the lives of his victims for his personal profit. Or money profit as Gaetan would say, not grasping the duplicative nature of the statement.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 02:48 PM   #1791
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
It's Butcher-ese for a topic change. We were talking about the villain Peter Joseph and his views that destroys the lives of his victims for his personal profit. Or money profit as Gaetan would say, not grasping the duplicative nature of the statement.
Though typical of Gaetan's citations, they generally say the opposite of what Gaetan attempts to portray. So a money grubbing scam artist cited as an exemplar in furtherance of an anti-money platform, does fit that trend.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 03:59 PM   #1792
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
I had to repeatedly yell to him "Can you please not step on the toxic gas containment boxes!!!"*.
That's a problem that will eventually solve itself. Granted, some poor slob will have some paperwork to do on it, but it does eventually come to an end. I would love to be in the courtroom on the civil suit, where you would get to say "I didn't think I had to tell him not to dance on toxic gas containment boxes"

My work is fairly run of the mill and you could get plenty of people to do it. Years of experience only helps you filter out what you need to do, so there is that. For example, the recent change that allowed people to file in July was called an extension. But, and here is some inside baseball, it was really a disaster area declaration. We already have that programmed in, so just declaring all of the US a disaster area for the sake of taxes, made it mind-numbingly simple.

I was trying to use some more obvious examples. Let's take fire fighting. I could, probably get the hose attached to the hydrant and the water flowing. But if you were trapped in the proverbial burning building, would you want me, a rank untrained novice on the hose, or a trained professional?

There in lies Gaetans fundamental problem. All work is not available to all comers. I surmise that his work IS exactly that. Entry level stuff. So his experience, his entire world is based on that experience. Everything is entry level and anyone can be replaced with anyone else, with minimal to no training.

Which is why his "call down to the employment center" nonsense is just that. He has no idea about training, probably because he hasn't undergone any. For the rest of us, well, not so much.

Gaetan, do us all a favor, do yourself a favor, take the pills and get some rest. We can work on the CV next week.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 04:30 PM   #1793
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
That's a problem that will eventually solve itself. Granted, some poor slob will have some paperwork to do on it, but it does eventually come to an end. I would love to be in the courtroom on the civil suit, where you would get to say "I didn't think I had to tell him not to dance on toxic gas containment boxes"

My work is fairly run of the mill and you could get plenty of people to do it. Years of experience only helps you filter out what you need to do, so there is that. For example, the recent change that allowed people to file in July was called an extension. But, and here is some inside baseball, it was really a disaster area declaration. We already have that programmed in, so just declaring all of the US a disaster area for the sake of taxes, made it mind-numbingly simple.

I was trying to use some more obvious examples. Let's take fire fighting. I could, probably get the hose attached to the hydrant and the water flowing. But if you were trapped in the proverbial burning building, would you want me, a rank untrained novice on the hose, or a trained professional?

There in lies Gaetans fundamental problem. All work is not available to all comers. I surmise that his work IS exactly that. Entry level stuff. So his experience, his entire world is based on that experience. Everything is entry level and anyone can be replaced with anyone else, with minimal to no training.

Which is why his "call down to the employment center" nonsense is just that. He has no idea about training, probably because he hasn't undergone any. For the rest of us, well, not so much.

Gaetan, do us all a favor, do yourself a favor, take the pills and get some rest. We can work on the CV next week.
The tragically funny part is that when a toxic gas box alarm does start going off (usually due to some error other than an actual leak) people are suppose to move 25 ft away (says it right on the box). What happens is some people start coming around to walk up and look at it inquisitively going "Is that the toxic gas alarm going off?".
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Old 4th November 2020, 08:45 AM   #1794
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
The tragically funny part is that when a toxic gas box alarm does start going off (usually due to some error other than an actual leak) people are suppose to move 25 ft away (says it right on the box). What happens is some people start coming around to walk up and look at it inquisitively going "Is that the toxic gas alarm going off?".
There is something funny there, and also potentially tragic. But hey, the court case where someone has to explain that the deceased knowingly and intentionally entered the 25 foot kill zone BECAUSE the damn alarm went off would make for a good read.

I would make a point about too many false alarms leading to complacency, but your example makes that clear enough. At my office, there are plenty of doors with alarms. You have to present your badge to the reader, wait for the reader to beep and then hit the crash bar and exit. Some people skip either the flashing of the badge, or don't wait for the beep. Which means security, has to come over and clear it. God forbid there is an actual emergency, because everyone "knows" it's a false alarm and that some yahoo just set it off.

Yes, it bugs me a bit, but since I've not been in the office since, one of the M months, and even back then only on Wednesday, it's not a bother.

And to put this back on topic a bit, if people with a career, or at least a reasonably paying job can't get this right, why would a temp, one day wonder, even care to? This is yet another unaddressed issue in Gaetan's mythical employment center.
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Old 4th November 2020, 02:09 PM   #1795
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Calomnies from you as usual, there is no need of income tax if people work for free and get free goods and services as reward.
Oh and who decides that? Who or how would they get that position?
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Old 4th November 2020, 03:13 PM   #1796
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Oh and who decides that? Who or how would they get that position?
Makes you wonder how international relations would work in his everything is free model. How would relations between the states work?

Let's take the natural resource known as water. Let's say a river runs through multiple states. It used to rage. Now, by the time it gets to the ocean, not a drop passes. The states, all hurting for a basic resource, take what they want. There are laws and compacts the govern how much water must flow, but if it's free, all that goes out the window. The first to dam the river wins.

Take a look at the water wars of Southern California. An area that really has no business existing. Forget it Hans, it's Chinatown.
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Old 4th November 2020, 03:13 PM   #1797
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
It took me a moment to figure out what was going on here. I thought for a moment that Leftus had caught a case of Covfefe 19 or something.

Gaetan, what the hell is a groulieve anyway?
A thin gruel from France which will be the only available food in GaetanWorldTM
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Old 4th November 2020, 03:15 PM   #1798
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I guess you are afraid to loose your job as income tax producer but when we'll get rid of money we'll find you a work more useful.
"We"?????

WTF is "We"?

Do you mean you?
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Old 4th November 2020, 10:01 PM   #1799
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
"We"?????

WTF is "We"?

Do you mean you?
Simply the unemployment center but don't be stressed as the world of no money there is no more money slavery you don't have to accept what is not at your convenience because everything is free of charge, remember money does no more exist. to work or not work goods and services are free.

Last edited by Gaetan; 4th November 2020 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 5th November 2020, 05:55 AM   #1800
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Simply the unemployment center but don't be stressed as the world of no money there is no more money slavery you don't have to accept what is not at your convenience because everything is free of charge, remember money does no more exist. to work or not work goods and services are free.

Once again your own assertions are contradicted by, well, your own assertions. You have previously said that if people don't work there won't be any goods and services available. Simply by your own assertions those goods and services aren't free. They cost, at least, the work of people. If not your own work, then that of others.
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