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Tags Coronavirus , Sweden incidents , Sweden issues

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Old 24th October 2020, 08:39 PM   #2641
Clutch Cargo
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WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19)

Data last updated:2020/10/23, 3:34pm CEST

Newly reported cases in the last 24 hours:

U.S. 72,342

Australia 18

Sweden 0

Denmark 859

New Zealand 11

Bad news again.

* U.S. up 10,000
* Australia down 4
* New Zealand up 2. No "elimination" in sight.
* Sweden as often is the case, zero.
* And then Denmark. Up to 859 new cases in the past 24 hours which is another all-time record high for Denmark …... two days running.

Here is a quote from the Danish Prime Minister:

“Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen announced at a briefing on Friday evening a number of new restrictions in response to escalating Covid-19 infections in Denmark.”

“Denmark is to significantly restrict social activity with new measures aimed at stemming a concerning trend of increasing cases of coronavirus in the Scandinavian country.”
The new measures include:
• Mandatory facemasks in all indoor public places
• A ban on selling alcohol after 10pm (including at supermarkets and convenience stores)
• The assembly limit will be reduced to a maximum of 10 people
“The timescale for the three measures differs: the facemask requirement will come into effect from October 29th, while the ban on alcohol sales takes effect from Monday. Both of these measures will remain in place until January 2nd 2021, Frederiksen said at Friday’s briefing.”
“The reduction of the assembly limit to a maximum of 10 people (from the current 50) becomes effective on Monday and will remain in place for an initial four weeks.”
“All restrictions already in place have also been extended until January 2nd, Frederiksen said. They had been scheduled to expire on October 29th. That means bars, restaurants and cafes will still be required to close at 10pm and facemasks will remain mandatory on all public transport.”
“The new facemask requirement will mean people in Denmark now face wearing the coverings in supermarkets and stores, libraries and all other indoor public areas. Children under 12 and others with health conditions contraindicating face mask use are exempted under the current Danish rules.”
“In addition to the restrictions, a new recommendation was also announced on Friday: to restrict social contacts to 10 people outside of your own household.”
“Without new restrictions, ‘we risk losing control in Denmark’, she said.”


Oh, this must be a joke. As the rate of Coronavirus in Danmark has been allowed to reach Denmark’s highest of all time I do not think that “risk of losing control” is the right way to express what has already been lost. I mean, seriously. What a stupid thing to say. There is no “risk” to losing control. Denmark has clearly lost its control already. To be fair, you can’t blame her for trying to keep Danish panic at bay.

Denmark registered 859 new cases of coronavirus on Friday, the second consecutive day on which a new record has been set for the number of cases in a 24-hour period.
“The figure of 859 is notably higher than Thursday's total of 760. The 859 new infections came from 44,244 tests.”

“Danish Health Authority director Søren Brostrøm encouraged members of the public to find a small group of people to socialise with – and not to invite more than 10 people to private gatherings. This applies no matter how big your home might be,”
Brostrøm said.

Denmark is in much worse shape than Sweden per capita. In other words, with all of Denmark's posturing and exclaiming about how clever and watchful, they are none-the-less fairing worse than Sweden, a country with a lack of restrictions. Listen up: The face masks ain’t doin’ nuthin. Denmark must follow Sweden's example and increase their numbers of public transportation so that their citizens are not compelled to cram into one another. Listen carefully:

SWEDEN = few restrictions, more buses and trains.
DENMARK = an abundance of restrictions with few buses and trains.
RESULTS: The Swedish population is less encumbered yet less likely to attract Coronavirus.

Denmark is more concerned with saving money on transportation and less bothered by the loss of life of their countrymen. Shame.
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Old 25th October 2020, 12:40 AM   #2642
dann
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Too bad that CC always gets the number two days late - and Sweden's numbers not at all. On Friday, when Denmark's number of new cases was 859, which is bloody awful, Sweden's was 1,625, i.e. slightly slightly worse.
I'll get back to Swedish transportation in the pandemic in an hour or two with more reliable descriptions of the conditions.

Saturday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Oct. 24, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
Sweden: 586 (5,933) 1625* 41 *according to SVT.se No new Swedish numbers till Tuesday
Denmark: 121 (700) 789 17
Finland: 64 (353) 178 11
Norway: 51 (279) +217* 6
Iceland: 32 (11) 86 4
Iceland has 1,081 active cases, Faroe Islands 12, New Zealand 74.
The Faroe Islands have 62 in quarantine, 0 hospitalized.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th October 2020, 02:15 AM   #2643
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CC's usual myopia regarding Swedish data reporting protocols is looking even more suspect now.
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Old 25th October 2020, 05:19 AM   #2644
dann
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But remember that "confirmed cases" is very different from actual cases. The number of actual cases may have ben 10-20 times higher in the spring and early summer than the number of registered, confirmed cases.
Due to Sweden's limited testing capacity (in particular this week), the number of actual cases is probably still considerably higher than the registered number, but the difference is no longer as extreme as it was a couple of months ago.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th October 2020, 07:36 AM   #2645
dann
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Highest number of new registered cases in Denmark yet: 945.

Quote:
Smittetallet er opgjort på baggrund af 57.902 prøver.
Antallet af indlagte er 127, hvilket er syv flere end i går.
To personer er døde.
945 er smittede med corona det seneste døgn (DR.dk, Oct. 25, 2020 - 14:01)
The number of infections is based on 57,902 tests.
The number of hospitalizations is 127, seven more than yesterday.
Two people have died.
945 (registered) corona infections in the last 24 hours

- Med den hastighed runder vi 2000, inden næste uge er omme, siger professor efter ny smitterekord (DR.dk, Oct. 25, 2020)
- With this speed we will be at 2,000 by the end of next week, says professor after record in new cases
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 25th October 2020 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 25th October 2020, 09:08 PM   #2646
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WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19)

Data last updated: 2020/10/25, 2:09pm CET

Newly reported cases in the last 24 hours:

U.S. 82,630

Australia 15

Sweden 0

Denmark 789

New Zealand 1

* The U.S. is up another 20,000. That’s disgusting.
* Australia is down 7. Very good.
* New Zealand has gone down to 1. Excellent, although still not quite “eliminate”. Maybe tomorrow.
* Sweden still maintains a zero turn out. Can’t get much better than that. "Eliminated"?
* Denmark is in the ****. Up to their eyeballs in the brown stuff …….. Another steady increase of one hundred increments. It looked like they might be decreasing their hourly newly infected but …. nope.

Denmark simply refuses to make commuting safe for its citizens by consistently compelling people to jam tightly on buses and trains, filling each and every compulsory, assigned seat. Denmark could do as Sweden and increase the number of buses and trains, thus freeing the compartments so (as in Sweden) people can keep to the 2 meter recommended distancing. But no, Danes are compelled to sit facing strangers in a less than 1½ meter distance (knee touching knee), plus bumping shoulders with the passenger sitting next to you which is absolute zero distance.
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Old 25th October 2020, 09:12 PM   #2647
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A dreadful rate:
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Old 26th October 2020, 12:17 AM   #2648
dann
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
Danes are compelled to sit facing strangers in a less than 1½ meter distance (knee touching knee), plus bumping shoulders with the passenger sitting next to you which is absolute zero distance.

And there you have it, folks, the innocent Danish blonde who is obviously not even suspecting that a couple of Muslims will be crammed into the wagon (obviously forced!), nobody wearing facemasks and "knee touching knee"!!! (It is common knowledge that even (It's in the Quran somewhere that even Muslim women have to practice manspreading.)

Too bad that CC couldn't find a single photo to prove his absurd ideas about public transport during the pandemic.

Meanwhile in Sweden: Don't hop on the bus, Gus!

Quote:
Många stockholmare vittnar om ökad trängsel på stadens bussar, trots att kollektivtrafiken redan är maxad. Nu varnar överläkare Johan Styrud för en återgång till smittspridningskaoset från i våras.
Överläkare: ”Risk vi får det kaos vi hade i våras” (SvenskaDagbladet.se, Oct. 24, 2020)
Many people in Stockholm say that they experience increased crowding on the busses, despite the fact that public transport has already been maximized. Now chief physician Johan Styrud warns of a return to the spread of infection from spring.
Chief physician: ”There’s risk that we will see the chaos we had this spring”

Quote:
Undvik kollektivtrafik, jobba hemifrån och umgås bara inom hushållet. Så lyder de lokala råden för coronadrabbade Uppsala.
Men någon särskilt stor effekt på trängseln och människors beteende har de inte fått, enligt invånare.
– De är fullkomligt meningslösa, säger Uppsalabon Arash Samaditari, 38.
(…)
”Är lika fullt som vanligt på bussen”
I veckan infördes nya lokala råd för regionen. De innebär bland annat att var och en ska undvika kollektivtrafiken, att de som kan ska jobba hemifrån och att man bara bör umgås inom hushållet.
Arash Samaditari, 38, tycker att de nya råden är ”fullständigt meningslösa” och omöjliga för många att följa.
– Jag är lärare och kan inte jobba hemifrån. Jag måste åka buss till jobbet där jag har kontakt med 500 elever.
Att fler nu skulle jobba hemifrån har han inte märkt av på sin busslinje.
– Ingen åker buss för att det är kul, vi som åker är tvingade till det. Det är lika fullt där som vanligt. De borde sätta in fler bussar, säger han.
Smittan ökar i Uppsala: Råden meningslösa (Aftonbladet.se)
Avoid public transport, work from home and only socialize with people of your household. These are the local recommendations for Uppsala, hard hit by the corona.
But they have had no impact on crowding or on people’s behaviour, according to the locals.
– It is totally pointless , says Arash Samaditari, 38, from Uppsala.
(…)
”The bus is as full as always”
This week new local recommendations for the region were introduced. Among other things, they meant that each and everyone has to avoid public transport, that those who can have to work from home, and that one should only socialize with people within the household.
Arash Samaditari, 38, thinks that the new recommendations are ”totally pointless” and impossible for many to follow.
– I am a teacher and can’t work from home. I have to go by bus to the job where I am in contact with 500 students.
That more people are suppposed to work from home is not something that he has noticed on his bus line.
Nobody goes by bus because it’s fun, those of us who do are forced to do so. It is as full as always. They should have more busses, he says.
The contagion is increasing in Uppsala: The recommendations are pointless

The Swedish health authorities recommend behaviours that are impossible to follow: Work from home, don't use public transport, while at the same time keeping schools open and telling schools that teachers working from home is not an option. So everybody is blaming everybody else for not obeying the recommendations that nobody can obey. No wonder many Swedes just give up.

Quote:
Det råder irritation hos vissa i Uppsala över att de nya råden inte efterlevs – samtidigt är läget alltmer ansträngt på centralintensiven på Akademiska sjukhuset.
– De tänker ”det drabbar inte mig”, men det kan smitta andra, säger Agneta som själv är äldre och på stan för att besöka apoteket.
Uppsala är en av de regioner i Sverige där spridningen av coronaviruset går som fortast och hon reagerar på att folk trängs som att ingenting har hänt.
– Det är på ren svenska förjävligt. Det är så vansinnigt så att det inte är klokt, säger Agneta.
I tisdags utfärdade Folkhälsomyndigheten för första gången lokala råd. De innebär att alla invånare i Uppsala län ska undvika att resa med kollektivtrafik och enbart umgås fysiskt med personer ur det egna hushållet.
Märks det någon skillnad?
– Nej. Jag skulle åka till sjukhuset med buss häromdagen. Tre bussar fick åka förbi eftersom de var fulla, säger Agneta.
– Det känns som att det är många som inte orkar hålla i och hålla ut, säger Karin Wallentin, som även hon är på stan för att handla men som haft corona och nu är frisk.
Irritation i Uppsala över att coronaråd inte efterlevs: ”Förjävligt på ren svenska” (SVT.se, Oct. 24, 2020)
Some people in Uppsala are annoyed because the new recommendation aren’t followed – as the situation is getting more and more serious at the central ICU ward at the Akademiska hospital.
– They think ”it won’t hit me,” by it may infect others, says Agneta, who is elderly herself an in town to visit the pharmacy.
Uppsala is one of the regions in Sweden where the coronavirus is spreading the fastest, and she reacts to people crowding as if nothing has happened.
– In plain and simple Swedish, it is just awful. It’s so insane that it’s crazy, says Agneta.
Last Tuesday, the Public Health Agency issued local recommendations for the first time. They include that everybody in Uppsala must avoid using public transport and only socialize with people from their own household.
Can you feel any change?
– No. I was on my way to the hospital by bus the other day. Three busses passed the busstop because they were full, says Agneta.
– It feels like may people are fed up with hanging in there and holdning out, says Karin Wallentin, who is also in the town for shopping but who already had Covid-19 and is now well.
Irritation in Uppsala because the corona recommendations aren’t followed: -It’s just awful, in plain and simple Swedish.

And it's not as if it's an option to take the bike instead of the train or the bus.

[quote] – I städer som London och Paris bygger man miltals med cykelbanor, ökar antalet cykelparkeringar och tar bort bilparkeringar på gator för att gynna cyklingen, men i Sverige händer väldigt lite, säger lobbyorganisationen Svensk cyklings vd Klas Elm till SVT.
Cykelboom i landet – men svensk cykelpolitik får kritik (SVT.se, Oct. 25, 2020) [quote]
– In cities like London and Paris, they build miles of bicycle lanes, increase the number of bicycle parking spaces and remove car parking in streets to benefit bicycling, but in Sweden very little happens, the chairman of the lobby organization Swedish Bicycling says to SVT.
Bicycle boom in the
country – but Swedish bicycle policies are criticized


So because Swedish authorities remain in denial of what can actually be put into practice, there's no real solution in sight:

Quote:
Coronafallen ökar runtom i Sverige.
På Akademiska sjukhuset i Uppsala är intensivvården full av covidpatienter – och nu ser man en tydlig ökning även i andra regioner.
– Det är med skräck i blicken som vi ser att det ökar igen, säger Roland Söderholm, överläkare vid Södertälje sjukhus
Smittspridningen ökar – larmet från Uppsala (Expressen.se, Oct. 25, 2020)
The corona cases are increasing all over Sweden
At the Akademiska hospital in Uppsala the ICUs are full of Covid-19 patients - and now an obvious increase is observed in other regions.
– We are horrified to see it increasing again, says Roland Söderholm, chief physician at Södertälje hospital.
The spreading of the disease is increasing – the alarm from Uppsala
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th October 2020, 12:30 AM   #2649
dann
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By the way, recommendations in Sweden aren't really recommedations:

Quote:
Är det bara jag som tycker det är lite väl vagt med ”råd” istället för ”restriktioner”? Ett råd är ju mer eller mindre en åsikt som man man välja att inte lyssna på...
Fundersam
Hej Fundersam! Jag kan meddela dig att du är långt ifrån ensam. Denna typ av inlägg tillhör de vanligaste vi får. Rekommendationer och råd må låta vagt men de ska betraktas som regler som ska följas när de kommer från myndigheter.
Sophie Stigfur
Senaste nytt om coronaviruset (Aftonbladet.se, Oct. 25, 2020 – 8:25)
Am I the only one who thinks that it's a little vague to speak of "advice" instead of "restrictions"? Advice is more less an opinion you can choose not to listen to ...
Fundersam
Hi there, Fundersam! I can inform you that you are by no means alone. This type of message is among the ones we receive most frequently. Recommendations and advice may sound vague, but when they are from authorities, they should be considered to be rules.
Sophie Stigfur
Latest news about the coronavirus

We already know that the authorities in Sweden don't approve of the word restrictions. Maybe they should consider hiring a couple of communications experts after they get rid of their useless epidemiologists.
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th October 2020, 12:34 AM   #2650
dann
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I already posted the disastrous number of new cases in Denmark yesterday in post 2645:

Sunday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Oct. 25, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
Sweden: 586 (5,933) 1625* 41 *according to SVT.se No new Swedish numbers till Tuesday
Denmark: 121 (702) 945 18
Finland: 64 (353) 196 11
Norway: 51 (279) 392 6
Iceland: 32 (11) 54 4
Iceland has 1,042 active cases, Faroe Islands 12, New Zealand 70.
The Faroe Islands have 62 in quarantine, 0 hospitalized.
Quote:
No new positive Covid tests have been registered since Wednesday.
Over the past week, the daily number of positive tests has been as follows: 0, 3, 0, 2, 0, 0 and 0.
Third consecutive day with no new Covid cases (KVF.fo, Oct. 25, 2020)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 26th October 2020 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 26th October 2020, 01:46 AM   #2651
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Despite the feelings of at least one poster, I’m proud to be part of the defeat of the second wave by Melbourne. It’s been a tough few months, and nobody will be back to normal until an effective vaccine, but good times ahead down here.
...congrats on the fantastic news today. Victoria has done so well in smashing the virus. Well done everyone.
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Old 26th October 2020, 02:13 AM   #2652
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...congrats on the fantastic news today. Victoria has done so well in smashing the virus. Well done everyone.
Thanks. Now out of lockdown and feeling good.
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Old 26th October 2020, 05:02 AM   #2653
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Quote:
Sweden still maintains a zero turn out. Can’t get much better than that. "Eliminated"?

Oh for crying out loud. I know that this is a statistical reporting issue, not a report of nil actual cases. You know this. Everyone else here knows this. Stop trying to suggest it's anything otherwise - you're not fooling anyone.
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Old 26th October 2020, 05:16 AM   #2654
dann
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Thanks. Now out of lockdown and feeling good.

Yes, great news:
Australia's coronavirus epicenter records no new cases as the US and Western Europe struggle to contain the pandemic (CNN, Oct. 26, 2020)

Unfortunately, some Covidiots in Denmark see the rising numbers as proof that herd immunity is the way to go:
Dansk professor tror ikke på den nuværende coronastrategi: Det er mirakeltænkning (BT, Oct. 25, 2020)
Danish professor doesn't believe in the present corona strategy: It's miracle thinking

Fortunately, most researchers are less naïve and insist on improved contact tracing:
Quote:
Studier fra Sydkorea viser, at coronavirus kan sprede sig mere end seks meter væk.
Den 8. marts blev der registreret en smittet person i et callcenter i en 19 etager høj bygning i hovedstaden, Seoul. Dagen efter lukkede bygningen ned, og alle blev testet.
Næsten halvdelen af medarbejderne i callcenteret på 11. etage viste sig at være smittet – i alt 94 ud af 216 medarbejdere.
(…)
- Koreanerne lykkedes med at lukke en potentiel supersprederbegivenhed i et callcenter ned meget effektivt. Jeg tror, de testede omkring 1.000 mennesker i den forbindelse, så det kan lade sig gøre, siger Allan Randrup Thomsen.
Undersøgelser har også vist, at den nationale smitteopsporing i Sydkorea finder 79 kontakter pr. smittet, mens det i Danmark er 3,5 kontakter per smittet.
Professor efterlyser mere intensiv smitteopsporing: 'Med vores testkapacitet forstår jeg det ikke' (DR.dk, Oct. 23, 2020)
Studies from South Korea show that the coronavirus can spread at a distance further than six meters.
On March 8, one infected person wasa registered in a call center in a 19-storey building in the capital Seoul. The next day, the building was closed down, and everybody was tested.
Almost half of the staff in the call center on the 11th floor turned out to be infected – a total of 94 of 216 employees.
(…)
- The Koreans succeeded in effectively closing a potential superspreader event in a call center. I think they tested about 1,000 people on that occasion, so it can be done, says Allan Randrup Thomsen.
Studies have also shown that the national contact tracing in South Korea finds 79 contacts per case whereas in Denmark it is 3.5 contacts per case.
Professor calls for more effective contact tracing: ’Considering our testing capacity, I don’t get it’

And new Danish study about the of-or-with question; from press briefing:
Quote:
ca. 19:19
Mølbak: Folk dør af corona
Kan man tale om, at folk dør af corona og ikke med corona, bliver der spurgt fra salen.
- Langt hovedparten er døde af corona, siger Kåre Mølbak, der siger, at vurderingen er, at 95 procent af dem, der i statistikken står opført som døde med corona er døde af corona.
Live TV: Statsministeren holder pressemøde om nye corona-tiltag (DR.dk, Oct. 23, 2020)
Can we say that people die of corona and not with corona? somebody in the room asks.
- The vast majority of people have died of corona, says Kåre Mølbak, who says that it has been estimated that 95 percent of people who have been recorded in the statistics as having died with corona died of corona.
The prime minister has a press briefing about the new corona measures
__________________
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 26th October 2020 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 26th October 2020, 05:21 AM   #2655
dann
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Originally Posted by Architect View Post
Oh for crying out loud. I know that this is a statistical reporting issue, not a report of nil actual cases. You know this. Everyone else here knows this. Stop trying to suggest it's anything otherwise - you're not fooling anyone.

I guess he wants to make sure that information out of Sweden looks even more unreliable than it already is.

Quote:
Tegnell, Giesecke och Wallensten förutspådde utvecklingen: ”Blir inte mer än enstaka fall”
Minns du? Så sa experterna om corona i början (Expressen.se, Oct. 24, 2020)
Tegnell, Giesecke and Wallenstein predicted the development: ”There will be nothing more than individual cases.”
Remember? This is what the experts said in the beginning

Stopp för publikevenemang hejdar smittan bäst (Sydsvenskan.se, Oct. 23, 2020)
Stopping public events is the best way to stop the contagion

Quote:
Statsminister Stefan Löfven (S) kungjorde på torsdagen regeringens beslut att göra ett undantag i förbudet för allmänna sammankomster och offentliga tillställningar på fler än 50 personer. För teater, konserter, biografer och sportevenemang med sittplatser tillåts publik på upp till 300 personer från den 1 november.
Men beslutet går stick i stäv med den senaste forskningen. Förbud mot publika evenemang är den enskilda åtgärd som minskar spridningen av det nya coronaviruset allra mest, enligt en ny studie.
Senaste nytt om coronaviruset (Aftonbladet.se, Oct. 23, 2020 – 7:07)
PM Stefan Löfven (S) declared the government’s decision to make an exception to the ban on public events and public gathering of more than 50 people. For theaters, concerts, cinemas and sport events with seating audiences of up to 300 people are allowed from Nov. 1.
But the decision goes against the latest reasearch. Bans on public events is the one measure that lowers the spread of the new coronavirus the most, according to a new study.
Latest news about the coronavirus
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 26th October 2020 at 05:29 AM.
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Old 26th October 2020, 08:46 AM   #2656
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I guess he wants to make sure that information out of Sweden looks even more unreliable than it already is.
The main thing he's achieving is to make any information coming out of his posts look even more unreliable than it already is, which is kind of impressive, given that I would have thought that was impossible.
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Old 26th October 2020, 09:27 AM   #2657
dann
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I always wonder about people who post photos that show the exact opposite of what they are claiming: What enables them to see what they seem to be seeing?

But on a more serious note: Denmark had four digits today, 1,056 new cases and 6 deaths.
With the number of new cases, there is no doubt that it will be several weeks before we have days with no Covid-19 deaths again.
And the experts still talk about controlling the virus instead of eliminating it.
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th October 2020, 01:52 PM   #2658
dann
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Sweden's number of new cases since Friday won't be released until tomorrow afternoon, but since Sweden also doesn't test much, maybe the number of Covid-19 patients in ICUs is a better comparison for now:
Quote:
Fler vårdas på IVA: Just nu vårdas 56 svenskar på en intensivvårdsavdelning för covid-19. Det är 11 fler än för ett dygn sedan och 32 fler jämfört med samma dag för en vecka sedan.
Senaste nytt om coronaviruset (SVT.se, Oct. 26, 2020 – 13:33)
More patients in ICUs: Right now, 56 Swedes are in ICUs with Covid-19. That is 11 more than 24 hours ago and 32 more than one week ago.
Latest news about the coronavirus
Sweden: 56
Denmark: 17
Finland: 10
Norway: 7
Iceland: 3
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th October 2020, 03:01 PM   #2659
dann
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Anders Tegnell, Trump's dream-come-true epidemiologist

Quote:
Men bortsett från presidentens attityd att viruset snart kommer att försvinna och att det värsta är över så låter väldigt många av Trumps argument välbekanta för en svensk.
Inte minst i den sista debatten mot Joe Biden betonade Trump vikten av att hålla samhället öppet. För att rädda jobb och för att rädda människors mentala hälsa.
– Folk begår självmord, sade Trump. Skilsmässorna ökar kraftigt.
Han poängterade att skolorna måste hållas öppna. Och han ifrågasätter ansiktsmaskerna.
Utan några jämförelser i övrigt så låter Trump väldigt mycket som Sveriges smittskyddsexpert Anders Tegnell.
Nyligen kallade presidenten sin egen högste smittskyddsexpert Anthony Fauci för ”en katastrof” och andra för ”idioter” därför att de ändrat sig när det gäller vikten att bära mask.
För Trump vore det en dröm att ha en smittskyddsexpert som Tegnell vid sin sida. En som ifrågasätter om det verkligen ger så mycket skydd att bära på en mask som folk hela tiden pillar på och tar av och på sig, återanvänder och lägger i fickan.
I USA betraktas det bland experter, opinionsbildare och en väldigt stor del av allmänheten som en självklarhet att ansiktsmask bidrar till att minska smittspridningen.
Tegnell vore en dröm för Trump (Aftonbladet.se, Oct. 26, 2020)
But apart from the president’s opinion that the virus will soon disappear and that the worst is over, many of Trump’s arguments sound very familiar to a Swede.
Particularly in the last debate against Biden, Trump emphasized the importance of keeping society open. To save jobs and to save people’s mental health.
– People commit suicide, Trump said. The number of divorces is increasing massively.
He stressed that schools should stay open. And he questioned face masks.
Trump sounds very much like Sweden’s expert on infectious diseases, Anders Tegnell.
Recently, the president called his own highest-ranked infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci ”a disaster” and others ”idiots” because they had changed their minds about the importance of wearing face masks.
To Trump it would be a dream come true to have an infectious disease expert like Tegnell at his side. Somebody who questions if it really offers so much protection to wear a face mask that people touch, put on and take off, reuse and put in their pockets.
Experts, pundits and a large percentage of the public in the USA consider it obvious that face masks contribute to lowering the spread of infection.
Tegnell would be Trump’s dream of an expert
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th October 2020, 05:13 PM   #2660
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Sweden's number of new cases since Friday won't be released until tomorrow afternoon, but since Sweden also doesn't test much, maybe the number of Covid-19 patients in ICUs is a better comparison
Sweden seems to be a living example of Trump's claim that if you don't test as much then you don't have as many cases. Also if they only provide the data every three days, they have lots of days with no new cases.
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Old 26th October 2020, 08:35 PM   #2661
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WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19)

Data last updated: 2020/10/26, 5:06pm CET

Newly reported cases in the last 24 hours:

U.S. 82,626

Australia 21

Sweden 0

Denmark 945

New Zealand 5

* The U.S. is fairly steady with an increase of only 4
* Australia only 6 more.
* New Zealand up 4
* Sweden, well what can you expect? Zero. Maybe Sweden really did “eliminate” the virus.
* Denmark, holy ****** With a 200 hundred plus increment, the country has now hit the highest number of newly infected since the beginning of the Coronavirus epidemic! Denmark is rising in huge numbers on a daily basis and the Danish authorities must be drunk, lying on the beaches of Lanzarote. You have to realize that Denmark has a tiny population of less than 6 million which is only half the size of Sweden. I can guess that the Danes are crapping in their britches right now and those poor souls are at the mercy of a totally incompetent leadership.

Wearing face masks is inadequate if the country continues compelling the population into congestive situations, i.e. overcrowding on public transportation. Why does Denmark continue to turn in higher and higher cases of the virus per capita than Sweden? Denmark is now in a face mask frenzy while Sweden pretty much shuns the things. Why? It is obvious. Sweden employs a sensible approach by way of recommendations and a committed population that eagerly follows those recommendations. But naturally, recommendations can only be followed if government has provided the proper means in order to accomplish the task at hand. How can the Danes be expected to keep their distance as long as the Danish transportation system is running a primitive time-table? It is obvious that Denmark is more concerned with saving money than lamenting over the lives being lost due to Coronavirus. Sweden (on the other hand) has increased its public transportation facilities greatly to minimize crowding on its provisions and gathering points. More trains and buses means fewer passengers on each and every carriage. Duh.

I brought my camera into town with me yesterday and took a few snapshots to demonstrate the point:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Tågstation.jpg (70.2 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg Tåg.jpg (91.8 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Buss.jpg (51.9 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 4 Namnlöst-9.jpg (48.1 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg Håll avstånd.jpg (131.7 KB, 2 views)
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Old 26th October 2020, 08:38 PM   #2662
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... continued .....
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File Type: jpg Advice.jpg (61.9 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg Handdesinfekt.jpg (74.0 KB, 2 views)
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Old 26th October 2020, 11:57 PM   #2663
dann
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Sweden seems to be a living example of Trump's claim that if you don't test as much then you don't have as many cases. Also if they only provide the data every three days, they have lots of days with no new cases.

That Sweden doesn't show its number of new infections on Saturdays, Sundays and Mondays is not the point. He has learned when it's too late to a get a zero every day - he made a few mistakes in the beginning - so now every day is a no-new-infections-in-Sweden day to him.

The irony is that if he hadn't insisted on his stunt with zero cases, somebody might actually believe that his new photos proved something other than what they do show: Even in Sweden, it's possible to find a half-empty train or bus when you avoid rush-hour traffic. Nobody ever claimed otherwise.

It is a little like when I described (and documented, with links) how some regions in Denmark had made face masks mandatory on public transport while others hadn't. I was still called a liar because he had (allegedly) been to Copenhagen (where face masks weren't required at the time) and seen no masks.

But let's not despair. At least he now seems to be interested in documenting that Danes do wear face masks on public transport everywhere and Swedes still don't. I guess that can be called progress in CC's case.

And there is a new Swedish number of new cases since Friday this afternoon. The Danish number from WHO that he will present to us tomorrow (or rather: in the middle of the night, CET), 1,056, will please him even than the one he gave us this morning, 945.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 26th October 2020 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 27th October 2020, 12:09 AM   #2664
dann
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News from Scania:
Quote:
Just nu vårdas 43 patienter med covid-19 på sjukhus i Skåne: fem på intensivvårdsavdelning och 38 på vårdavdelning, varav hälften i Malmö.
Fyra gånger fler på sjukhus med covid-19 i Skåne (Sydsvenskan.se, Oct 26, 2020)
Right now, 43 patients with Covid-19 are hospitalized in Scania: five in ICUs and 38 in the ordinary hospital ward, half of them in Malmö.
Covid-19 hospitalizations quadrupled in Scania

And the world's reaction to Sweden's decision to change their recommendations so old people are no longer told to be extra cautious: shock and dismay
Quote:
Sveriges beslut att häva coronarestriktioner för äldre får internationella virusexperter att häpna.
- Otroligt. Helt vansinnigt, säger Stefano Paglia, chef för akutsjukvården i Italiens coronadrabbade ”röda zon” till SvD.
(…)
Beslutet möts av häpnad och bestörtning utanför Sverige, särskilt i Italien som drabbades först när viruset landade i Europa och där en halv miljon smittats och över 37 000 människor dött.
Experter om Sveriges beslut: ”Helt vansinnigt” (SvenskaDagbladet.se, Oct. 26, 2020)
Sweden’s decision to suspend the corona restrictions for the elderly astonishes international virus experts.
- Unbelievable. Totally insane, says Stefano Paglia, head of the emergency hospital in Italy’s corona-impacted ”red zone” to Svenska Dagbladet.
(…)
The decision is met by shock and dismay outside of Sweden, especially in Italy, which was the first country to be affected when the virus came to Europe and half a million Italians were infected and more than 37,000 people died.
Experts about Sweden’s decision: ”Totally insane”
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 27th October 2020, 12:12 AM   #2665
dann
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NFTD: Sweden tried “herd immunity” with Covid-19. I was one of the herd. (TheMiddleburyCampus, Oct. 22, 2020)

IVA fullbelagt – bara covidpatienter: ”Vi är så trötta” (SVT.se, Oct. 23, 2020)
ICUs full – only covid patients: ”We are so exhausted”
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 27th October 2020, 12:15 AM   #2666
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Monday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Oct. 26, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
Sweden: 586 (5,933) 1625* 41 *according to SVT.se No new Swedish numbers till Tuesday
Denmark: 122 (708) 1,056 17
Finland: 64 (354) 122 10
Norway: 51 (279) 433 7
Iceland: 32 (11) 56 3
Iceland has 1,030 active cases, Faroe Islands 12, New Zealand 74.
The Faroe Islands have 62 in quarantine, 0 hospitalized.
Quote:
The so-called pooled sample testing method increases the likelihood of false negative results, argues the epidemic commission
Covid testing method called into question (KVF.fo, Oct. 26, 2020)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 27th October 2020, 01:20 AM   #2667
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
I brought my camera into town with me yesterday and took a few snapshots to demonstrate the point:
Obvious lie. The pictures from “Denmark” are from Germany.
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Old 27th October 2020, 02:03 AM   #2668
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Well, that's the Swedish method, apparently!
I didn't recognize the 'Danish' subway in the photos, but if I had looked closer at the first 'Danish' photo, it would have been apparent from the "DB" that it is Deutsche Bahn and not "DSB" = Danske StatsBaner.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 27th October 2020, 02:24 AM   #2669
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
<snip>Tegnell would be Trump’s dream of an expert[/url]
Frightening.
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Old 27th October 2020, 02:26 AM   #2670
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Sweden seems to be a living example of Trump's claim that if you don't test as much then you don't have as many cases. Also if they only provide the data every three days, they have lots of days with no new cases.
...and then when the figures do come out, it is emphasised that this relates to previous days and is thus not representative of today.
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Old 27th October 2020, 02:48 AM   #2671
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19)

Data last updated: 2020/10/26, 5:06pm CET

Newly reported cases in the last 24 hours:

U.S. 82,626

Australia 21

Sweden 0

Denmark 945

New Zealand 5

* The U.S. is fairly steady with an increase of only 4
* Australia only 6 more.
* New Zealand up 4
* Sweden, well what can you expect? Zero. Maybe Sweden really did “eliminate” the virus.
* Denmark, holy ****** With a 200 hundred plus increment, the country has now hit the highest number of newly infected since the beginning of the Coronavirus epidemic! Denmark is rising in huge numbers on a daily basis and the Danish authorities must be drunk, lying on the beaches of Lanzarote. You have to realize that Denmark has a tiny population of less than 6 million which is only half the size of Sweden. I can guess that the Danes are crapping in their britches right now and those poor souls are at the mercy of a totally incompetent leadership.

Wearing face masks is inadequate if the country continues compelling the population into congestive situations, i.e. overcrowding on public transportation. Why does Denmark continue to turn in higher and higher cases of the virus per capita than Sweden? Denmark is now in a face mask frenzy while Sweden pretty much shuns the things. Why? It is obvious. Sweden employs a sensible approach by way of recommendations and a committed population that eagerly follows those recommendations. But naturally, recommendations can only be followed if government has provided the proper means in order to accomplish the task at hand. How can the Danes be expected to keep their distance as long as the Danish transportation system is running a primitive time-table? It is obvious that Denmark is more concerned with saving money than lamenting over the lives being lost due to Coronavirus. Sweden (on the other hand) has increased its public transportation facilities greatly to minimize crowding on its provisions and gathering points. More trains and buses means fewer passengers on each and every carriage. Duh.

I brought my camera into town with me yesterday and took a few snapshots to demonstrate the point:
EDIT:The caption on the first photo ought to read exactly as all the other photos in the same post, ("Danish method")
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Old 27th October 2020, 03:33 AM   #2672
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
EDIT:The caption on the first photo ought to read exactly as all the other photos in the same post, ("Danish method")
So what you're saying is that these aren't actually photos of Denmark?

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Old 27th October 2020, 03:55 AM   #2673
dann
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
So what you're saying is that these aren't actually photos of Denmark?

Even the large green-and-white poster in the background of the German Deutsche Bahn (DB) train says DATEV, the name of a German company, DATEV, which doesn't seem to do business in Denmark.


ETA: In his post 2646, there was a photo of two women with headscarves waiting for a child to get off an actual Danish train. If you enlarge the photo a little, you can see the red hexagon with the white letters DSB on the side of the train.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 27th October 2020 at 04:16 AM.
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Old 27th October 2020, 06:57 AM   #2674
dann
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New cases in Sweden:
Tuesday, Sep. 15: 840 - since Friday, according to SVT.se
Tuesday, Sep. 22: 1199 - since Friday, according to SVT.se
Tuesday, Sep. 29: 1,543 - since Friday, according to SVT.se
Tuesday, Oct. 6: 1,862 - since Friday, according to SVT.se
Tuesday, Oct. 13: 2,203 - since Friday, according to SVT.se
Tuesday, Oct. 20: 3,180 - since Friday, according to SVT.se

Tuesday, Oct. 27: 5,191 - since Friday, according to SVT.se
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 27th October 2020, 07:14 AM   #2675
dann
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The Scania Region will have a press briefing in a few minutes at 15:30 CET.

Quote:
Lägesrapport för Region Skåne:
Nya konstaterade covid-19-fall: 242
Totalt antal konstaterade covid-19-fall: 8 676
Inlagda på IVA med konstaterad covid-19: 9
Inlagda på vårdavdelning med konstaterad covid-19: 48
Totalt antal avlidna med covid-19: 290
Senaste nytt om coronaviruset (Aftonbladet.se, Oct. 27, 2020 – 12:31)
Report about the situation in Scania
New Covid-19 cases: 242
Total number of Covid-19 cases: 8,676
Hospitalized in ICUs with Covid-19: 9
Hospitalized with Covid-19: 48
Total deaths with Covid 19: 290
Senaste nytt om coronaviruset
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 27th October 2020, 08:36 AM   #2676
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People wear face masks at main train station in Frankfurt, Germany (GlobalTimes, Aug. 30, 2020)
Train station in Frankfurt, Germany Stock Photo - Alamy (Aug. 29, 2020)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 27th October 2020, 10:17 AM   #2677
Clutch Cargo
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
So what you're saying is that these aren't actually photos of Denmark?
You are free to choose and point out any of them you feel are not. I have stated (and depicted) a true representation of the issue. YOU CAN sift through them to find what you think is from some country other than Denmark and make your own conclusions as they pertain to the issue of face masks vs. none ..... and congestion vs. an abundance of space. YOU CANNOT suggest that the photos of Sweden are not authentic or taken yesterday. If you are of the mind that the photos of congestion & face masks do not apply to Denmark then please ..... take it as you like.
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Old 27th October 2020, 11:10 AM   #2678
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https://www.shutterstock.com/da/imag...hore-219062512
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 27th October 2020, 01:23 PM   #2679
Matthew Best
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Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo View Post
You are free to choose and point out any of them you feel are not. I have stated (and depicted) a true representation of the issue. YOU CAN sift through them to find what you think is from some country other than Denmark and make your own conclusions as they pertain to the issue of face masks vs. none ..... and congestion vs. an abundance of space. YOU CANNOT suggest that the photos of Sweden are not authentic or taken yesterday. If you are of the mind that the photos of congestion & face masks do not apply to Denmark then please ..... take it as you like.
I'm going to take all that waffle as a concession that they are not photos of Denmark.
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Old 27th October 2020, 02:43 PM   #2680
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
I'm going to take all that waffle as a concession that they are not photos of Denmark.
Everyone ought to have convictions. It makes you feel better.
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