Software transfer to XenForo - Page 2

DrDave · 27th March 2015, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Klimax

More of question where to post it?

Not quite sure what you're asking, but I meant the poll itself should probably go in Community.

Dan O. · 27th March 2015, 09:14 AM

If only we had a "like" button to raise the standing of the poll.

SezMe · 27th March 2015, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by MetalPig

Do we need to specify that it is about liking posts, not people?

Riiiiight. Nobody is ever going to confuse the post and the person.

Orphia Nay · 27th March 2015, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ryan O'Dine

Great! Let's figure out a poll and opening statement. Here's my suggestion:

__________

Dear Forumites, Icerat and TPTB are contemplating moving the forum software to Xenforo, which would be a good opportunity for making some changes. There've been numerous debates through the years about including a "Like" button, such as one can find on many another forum. I don't believe a poll has ever been conducted, so now seems as good a time as any.

POLL: I would like a "Like" button...

1. Everywhere, always
2. Only in the "Members' Only" sections
3. Nowhere, ever
4. Hilarious Planet X option

__________

I'm not married to this, I just want to get the ball rolling. "Like"?

Great start.

Not sure XenForo has the option of having the likes in particular areas, though, so we may just have to have "Yes", "No" or "Planet X" options.

I'm not the best wordsmith, but if you could add something about not having dislikes, that would be perfect.

I'll then post it in Community if you like.

Ryan O'Dine · 28th March 2015, 05:25 AM

Revised:

__________

Dear Forumites, Icerat and TPTB are contemplating moving the forum software to XenForo, which would be a good opportunity for making some changes. There have been numerous debates about including a "Like" button through the years, but I don't believe a poll has ever been conducted. Now seems as good a time as any. Note: the poll is not contemplating a "Dislike," only a "Like" button.

It's not clear if XenForo could limit the placement of such a button, but if you'd accept it only in specific subforums (like Members Only) please vote "No" in the poll, but specify where you'd accept it in your comments. Thanks!

POLL: Should we add a "Like" button?

1. Yes
2. No
3. Undecided/no strong feeling
4. On Planet X, the buttons press you

__________

I think we should only explain the mechanics of "Liking" in the comments if someone needs clarification.

And thanks for volunteering, Orphia. Feel free to change anything, of course.

Orphia Nay · 28th March 2015, 05:33 PM

Thank you, Ryan!

Poll is here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=290843

Ryan O'Dine · 29th March 2015, 05:52 AM

Thanks, Orphia. Looks great!

Grizzly Bear · 29th March 2015, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

Of course, I'm assuming there is no "dislike" feature with XenForo.

ETA: Disliking is rude and awful.

But the places I'm keen on all use just the Like function, and it keeps me coming back, showing my admiration, and posting more.

You can "LIKE" and "UNLIKE"
Those are the defaults, there's no Dislike AFAIK in it. I just did a conversion of my own site and to tell the truth the most difficult thing was doing the settings for the conversion correctly (which only took a few minutes to figure out), and getting used to the new layout on the main page. The default Xenforo themes move the active users list to the right side of the screen, and I keep getting thrown off since I'm used to that stuff being at the bottom.

The ACP is also a lot less complicated, but similarly, it takes some getting used to as it's quite different in layout from vbulletin's.

I'm unsure of how it'll flow with this site since it's far larger but for me the conversion took about an hour to do, and not only did it work, but it far surpassed my expectations, and I had a rather decent performance boost from it.

So, all in all... decent so far...

Orphia Nay · 30th March 2015, 01:33 AM

Good stuff, Grizzly Bear!

Mike! · 30th March 2015, 04:38 PM

I can honestly say, if a "Like" feature were added to the forum, then I'd most likely use it.
With that said, I would also say with all certainty, that if one wasn't added, I would never use it, ever.

theprestige · 30th March 2015, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

(I totally want the "like" function, as I seem to be more active these days in places that have it.)

This question has been growing on me ever since the thread started: What do you mean by "more active"?

Orphia Nay · 30th March 2015, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

This question has been growing on me ever since the thread started: What do you mean by "more active"?

I post more in those places, and spend more time keeping up with what's going on.

I used to be here most of my internet time, but now I spend less time here and more time elsewhere.

Hope that explains it.

arthwollipot · 18th April 2016, 03:42 AM

Yo, where we at bruh?

Orphia Nay · 20th April 2016, 12:19 AM

Bump!

@icerat #icerat

theprestige · 20th April 2016, 05:22 AM

Does XenForo have a good mobile UI?

icerat · 21st April 2016, 05:29 AM

For the next 3 days there's a test version of xenforo up here

rjh01 · 22nd April 2016, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by icerat

For the next 3 days there's a test version of xenforo up here

I visited that forum. I was God. I was tempted to use that power.

Orphia Nay · 22nd April 2016, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by icerat

For the next 3 days there's a test version of xenforo up here

Thanks!

catsmate · 23rd April 2016, 04:24 AM

Hmm. Spacebattles uses XenoForo...

lpetrich · 24th April 2016, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by icerat

For the next 3 days there's a test version of xenforo up here

I apparently arrived late, because it's now a page for creating a Xenforo demo.

You can create one whenever you want to, and it will last 3 days. You can do not only ordinary-user stuff in it, but also admin stuff.

catsmate · 12th May 2016, 06:15 AM

Hmm, AH.com is also going to XenoForo. I tell your it's a conspiracy.

Prometheus · 12th May 2016, 01:38 PM

I don't "like" anything.

arthwollipot · 12th May 2016, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Prometheus

I don't "like" anything.

And even if the function is there, you don't have to use it.

Prometheus · 13th May 2016, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

And even if the function is there, you don't have to use it.

I actively dislike useless functions.

arthwollipot · 13th May 2016, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Prometheus

I actively dislike useless functions.

Well, this board is full of them. Events, for example.

arthwollipot · 13th May 2016, 04:06 PM

I think I'm going to start referring to this as "The Long-Awaited Upgrade That Never Comes" or LAUTNC.

icerat · 14th May 2016, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I think I'm going to start referring to this as "The Long-Awaited Upgrade That Never Comes" or LAUTNC.

I'll check if the domain is available

rjh01 · 14th May 2016, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by icerat

I'll check if the domain is available

If you do change the name to that, I think it would be an improvement on the current name.

arthwollipot · 14th May 2016, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

If you do change the name to that, I think it would be an improvement on the current name.

...which, I remind you, was chosen through a period of consultation and voted on by the users of the forum.

quadraginta · 14th May 2016, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

...which, I remind you, was chosen through a period of consultation and voted on by the users of the forum.

Tyranny of the majority.

On a properly liberated message board we could call it whatever we wanted to.

And the mods would make sure that it came up that way in a Google search.

rjh01 · 14th May 2016, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

...which, I remind you, was chosen through a period of consultation and voted on by the users of the forum.

And can be changed at the whim of the owner. Or by another period of consultation and vote by the users of the forum.

arthwollipot · 14th May 2016, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

And can be changed at the whim of the owner. Or by another period of consultation and vote by the users of the forum.

Why would the owner change it on a whim?

And of course it could be changed by a consultation and vote - that's pretty much true for anything. Microsoft could change its name by a consultation and vote of its shareholders. But again, why would they?

catsmate · 16th May 2016, 02:25 AM

If anyone's interested AH.com has migrated and it seems fine.

NWO Sentryman · 20th March 2017, 01:48 AM

Sorry for the necro, but I was wondering what happened to the planned upgrade.

Klimax · 20th March 2017, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman

Sorry for the necro, but I was wondering what happened to the planned upgrade.

Rat's on ice...

arthwollipot · 20th March 2017, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman

Sorry for the necro, but I was wondering what happened to the planned upgrade.

That's a good question.

rjh01 · 20th March 2017, 11:48 PM

It is coming. Maybe sometime after Jesus Christ returns/arrives. I have it on good authority that the later will happen, so that means the former will happen. You guys are just impatient.

In the meantime we should generate as much hot air as possible to thaw out icerat.

Dr. Keith · 21st March 2017, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by rjh01

It is coming. Maybe sometime after Jesus Christ returns/arrives. I have it on good authority that the later will happen, so that means the former will happen. You guys are just impatient.

In the meantime we should generate as much hot air as possible to thaw out icerat.

As the sign says in my mechanic's office:

If a man says he is going to do something then he is going to do it. There is no need to nag him every six months about it!

quadraginta · 21st March 2017, 05:03 PM

Is it a money thing? Could we take up a collection?

27th March 2015, 07:31 AM	#41
DrDave Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,300	Originally Posted by Klimax More of question where to post it? We should have a poll to decide...
DrDave Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,300

27th March 2015, 07:51 AM	#42
Ryan O'Dine OD’ing on Damitol Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Walk in an ever expanding Archimedean spiral and you'll find me eventually Posts: 1,901	Originally Posted by Klimax More of question where to post it? Not quite sure what you're asking, but I meant the poll itself should probably go in Community.
	__________________ I collect people like you in little formaldehyde bottles in my basement. (Not a threat. A hobby.)

27th March 2015, 09:14 AM	#43
Dan O. Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,594	If only we had a "like" button to raise the standing of the poll.
Dan O. Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,594

27th March 2015, 05:44 PM	#45
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 40,461	Originally Posted by Ryan O'Dine Great! Let's figure out a poll and opening statement. Here's my suggestion: __________ Dear Forumites, Icerat and TPTB are contemplating moving the forum software to Xenforo, which would be a good opportunity for making some changes. There've been numerous debates through the years about including a "Like" button, such as one can find on many another forum. I don't believe a poll has ever been conducted, so now seems as good a time as any. POLL: I would like a "Like" button... 1. Everywhere, always 2. Only in the "Members' Only" sections 3. Nowhere, ever 4. Hilarious Planet X option __________ I'm not married to this, I just want to get the ball rolling. "Like"? Great start. Not sure XenForo has the option of having the likes in particular areas, though, so we may just have to have "Yes", "No" or "Planet X" options. I'm not the best wordsmith, but if you could add something about not having dislikes, that would be perfect. I'll then post it in Community if you like.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

28th March 2015, 05:25 AM	#46
Ryan O'Dine OD’ing on Damitol Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Walk in an ever expanding Archimedean spiral and you'll find me eventually Posts: 1,901	Revised: __________ Dear Forumites, Icerat and TPTB are contemplating moving the forum software to XenForo, which would be a good opportunity for making some changes. There have been numerous debates about including a "Like" button through the years, but I don't believe a poll has ever been conducted. Now seems as good a time as any. Note: the poll is not contemplating a "Dislike," only a "Like" button. It's not clear if XenForo could limit the placement of such a button, but if you'd accept it only in specific subforums (like Members Only) please vote "No" in the poll, but specify where you'd accept it in your comments. Thanks! POLL: Should we add a "Like" button? 1. Yes 2. No 3. Undecided/no strong feeling 4. On Planet X, the buttons press you __________ I think we should only explain the mechanics of "Liking" in the comments if someone needs clarification. And thanks for volunteering, Orphia. Feel free to change anything, of course.
	__________________ I collect people like you in little formaldehyde bottles in my basement. (Not a threat. A hobby.)

27th March 2015, 10:20 AM	#44
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 25,183	Originally Posted by MetalPig Do we need to specify that it is about liking posts, not people? Riiiiight. Nobody is ever going to confuse the post and the person.

28th March 2015, 05:33 PM	#47
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 40,461	Thank you, Ryan! Poll is here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=290843
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

29th March 2015, 05:52 AM	#48
Ryan O'Dine OD’ing on Damitol Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Walk in an ever expanding Archimedean spiral and you'll find me eventually Posts: 1,901	Thanks, Orphia. Looks great!
	__________________ I collect people like you in little formaldehyde bottles in my basement. (Not a threat. A hobby.)

29th March 2015, 06:05 AM	#49
Grizzly Bear このマスクによっ Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7,866	Originally Posted by Orphia Nay Of course, I'm assuming there is no "dislike" feature with XenForo. ETA: Disliking is rude and awful. But the places I'm keen on all use just the Like function, and it keeps me coming back, showing my admiration, and posting more. You can "LIKE" and "UNLIKE" Those are the defaults, there's no Dislike AFAIK in it. I just did a conversion of my own site and to tell the truth the most difficult thing was doing the settings for the conversion correctly (which only took a few minutes to figure out), and getting used to the new layout on the main page. The default Xenforo themes move the active users list to the right side of the screen, and I keep getting thrown off since I'm used to that stuff being at the bottom. The ACP is also a lot less complicated, but similarly, it takes some getting used to as it's quite different in layout from vbulletin's. I'm unsure of how it'll flow with this site since it's far larger but for me the conversion took about an hour to do, and not only did it work, but it far surpassed my expectations, and I had a rather decent performance boost from it. So, all in all... decent so far...
Grizzly Bear このマスクによっ Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7,866	__________________ Current Set:http://i.imgur.com/IoqiUdK.jpg

30th March 2015, 01:33 AM	#50
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 40,461	Good stuff, Grizzly Bear!
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

30th March 2015, 04:38 PM	#51
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 45,870	I can honestly say, if a "Like" feature were added to the forum, then I'd most likely use it. With that said, I would also say with all certainty, that if one wasn't added, I would never use it, ever.
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes." Last edited by Mike!; 30th March 2015 at 04:39 PM.

30th March 2015, 05:11 PM	#52
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 59,429	Originally Posted by Orphia Nay (I totally want the "like" function, as I seem to be more active these days in places that have it.) This question has been growing on me ever since the thread started: What do you mean by "more active"?

30th March 2015, 11:17 PM	#53
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 40,461	Originally Posted by theprestige This question has been growing on me ever since the thread started: What do you mean by "more active"? I post more in those places, and spend more time keeping up with what's going on. I used to be here most of my internet time, but now I spend less time here and more time elsewhere. Hope that explains it.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

18th April 2016, 03:42 AM	#54
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 76,846	Yo, where we at bruh?
	__________________ Слава Україні Героям слава

20th April 2016, 12:19 AM	#55
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 40,461	Bump! @icerat #icerat
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

20th April 2016, 05:22 AM	#56
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 59,429	Does XenForo have a good mobile UI?
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

21st April 2016, 05:29 AM	#57
icerat Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: sweden Posts: 5,547	For the next 3 days there's a test version of xenforo up here
	__________________ Benford's law of controversy - Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available Last edited by icerat; 21st April 2016 at 05:44 AM.

22nd April 2016, 01:09 AM	#58
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 27,330	Originally Posted by icerat For the next 3 days there's a test version of xenforo up here I visited that forum. I was God. I was tempted to use that power.
	__________________ This signature is for rent.

22nd April 2016, 06:41 PM	#59
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 40,461	Originally Posted by icerat For the next 3 days there's a test version of xenforo up here Thanks!
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

23rd April 2016, 04:24 AM	#60
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,072	Hmm. Spacebattles uses XenoForo...
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

24th April 2016, 04:56 PM	#61
lpetrich Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 762	Originally Posted by icerat For the next 3 days there's a test version of xenforo up here I apparently arrived late, because it's now a page for creating a Xenforo demo. You can create one whenever you want to, and it will last 3 days. You can do not only ordinary-user stuff in it, but also admin stuff.
lpetrich Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 762

12th May 2016, 06:15 AM	#62
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,072	Hmm, AH.com is also going to XenoForo. I tell your it's a conspiracy.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

12th May 2016, 01:38 PM	#63
Prometheus Acolyte of Víðarr Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 50,380	I don't "like" anything.
	__________________ As Einstein once said, "If you can't think of something relevant to say, just make something up and attribute it to some really smart dead guy." "I find your lack of pith disturbing," - Darth Rotor .......... Don't be offended. I'm not calling you a serial killer. -- Ron Tomkins.

12th May 2016, 05:26 PM	#64
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 76,846	Originally Posted by Prometheus I don't "like" anything. And even if the function is there, you don't have to use it.
	__________________ Слава Україні Героям слава

13th May 2016, 10:45 AM	#65
Prometheus Acolyte of Víðarr Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 50,380	Originally Posted by arthwollipot And even if the function is there, you don't have to use it. I actively dislike useless functions.
	__________________ As Einstein once said, "If you can't think of something relevant to say, just make something up and attribute it to some really smart dead guy." "I find your lack of pith disturbing," - Darth Rotor .......... Don't be offended. I'm not calling you a serial killer. -- Ron Tomkins.

13th May 2016, 04:01 PM	#66
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 76,846	Originally Posted by Prometheus I actively dislike useless functions. Well, this board is full of them. Events, for example.
	__________________ Слава Україні Героям слава Last edited by arthwollipot; 13th May 2016 at 04:05 PM.

13th May 2016, 04:06 PM	#67
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 76,846	I think I'm going to start referring to this as "The Long-Awaited Upgrade That Never Comes" or LAUTNC.
	__________________ Слава Україні Героям слава

14th May 2016, 10:16 AM	#68
icerat Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: sweden Posts: 5,547	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I think I'm going to start referring to this as "The Long-Awaited Upgrade That Never Comes" or LAUTNC. I'll check if the domain is available
	__________________ Benford's law of controversy - Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available

14th May 2016, 05:22 PM	#69
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 27,330	Originally Posted by icerat I'll check if the domain is available If you do change the name to that, I think it would be an improvement on the current name.
	__________________ This signature is for rent.

14th May 2016, 06:27 PM	#70
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 76,846	Originally Posted by rjh01 If you do change the name to that, I think it would be an improvement on the current name. ...which, I remind you, was chosen through a period of consultation and voted on by the users of the forum.
	__________________ Слава Україні Героям слава

14th May 2016, 06:31 PM	#71
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,614	Originally Posted by arthwollipot ...which, I remind you, was chosen through a period of consultation and voted on by the users of the forum. Tyranny of the majority. On a properly liberated message board we could call it whatever we wanted to. And the mods would make sure that it came up that way in a Google search.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." Last edited by quadraginta; 14th May 2016 at 06:32 PM.

14th May 2016, 07:25 PM	#72
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 27,330	Originally Posted by arthwollipot ...which, I remind you, was chosen through a period of consultation and voted on by the users of the forum. And can be changed at the whim of the owner. Or by another period of consultation and vote by the users of the forum.
	__________________ This signature is for rent.

14th May 2016, 07:28 PM	#73
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 76,846	Originally Posted by rjh01 And can be changed at the whim of the owner. Or by another period of consultation and vote by the users of the forum. Why would the owner change it on a whim? And of course it could be changed by a consultation and vote - that's pretty much true for anything. Microsoft could change its name by a consultation and vote of its shareholders. But again, why would they?
	__________________ Слава Україні Героям слава

16th May 2016, 02:25 AM	#74
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,072	If anyone's interested AH.com has migrated and it seems fine.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

20th March 2017, 01:48 AM	#75
NWO Sentryman Proud NWO Gatekeeper Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 6,994	Sorry for the necro, but I was wondering what happened to the planned upgrade.
	__________________ If I now say "dominoes", you won't think "pizza". Will you? - FireGarden on the Middle East