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Tags transgender incidents , transgender issues , transgender rights

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Old 11th February 2021, 02:11 PM   #4081
Louden Wilde
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Originally Posted by Elaedith View Post
Thanks for the link!
Yes, it's struck me the same way a number of times (She and I have similar scientific backgrounds). Also, Her patience on twitter is impressive.
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Old 11th February 2021, 02:11 PM   #4082
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It seems rather disingenuous to point at "But the medical journals say this!" now when the same trans people would have been sanctioned under those same medical journals as delusional within the lifetimes of most everyone involved in this thread.

We should be able to talk about whether something is simply correct or not in our own words.
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Old 11th February 2021, 02:15 PM   #4083
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Yeah, yeah, letís make this thread about the three nastiest trans people on the internet, thatíll help. Proving that the three nastiest trans people on the internet are nastier than the three nastiest natal women on the internet will surely convince the fence sitters that self ID means the ladiesí trash bins will never be safe again.
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Old 11th February 2021, 02:21 PM   #4084
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*Shrugs* If we were talking about putting cis-men in the rest rooms you can be sure all we'd be hearing about where the rapists and murders.

Again either we pay for the sins of or demographic or we don't.
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Old 11th February 2021, 02:21 PM   #4085
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Originally Posted by Louden Wilde View Post
Not taking female concerns seriously
Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
There are no actual concerns here
Heh.
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Old 11th February 2021, 02:24 PM   #4086
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I don't know about that. I keep bringing up those girls from Palatine, the ones who didn't want the transgirl to see them naked. That was the case where the judge ruled that they had no right to visual bodily privacy.

They seemed like real people, and they seemed to have a real concern, and they weren't talking about some hypothetical future, and there was no slippery slope involved. It all seemed very much real, here, and now.
I support the trans girl in this case who was being discriminated against and excluded by the other girls. I fully agree with the outcome.
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Old 11th February 2021, 02:33 PM   #4087
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"Girl". Hah. Sounds so demure and sweet, doesn't it?

Hah.
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Old 11th February 2021, 02:36 PM   #4088
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
I support the trans girl in this case who was being discriminated against and excluded by the other girls. I fully agree with the outcome.
We get that but how is it that you can say the other girls have no concerns worth talking about? Why not say everyone in the room has feelings which ought to be taken into account?
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Old 11th February 2021, 02:43 PM   #4089
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Heh.

That's one word/sound for it. Many (concerns) have been brought up in this thread and well-articulated. But it seems clear Boudicca does not want to/will not hear them.
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Old 11th February 2021, 02:49 PM   #4090
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
I support the trans girl in this case who was being discriminated against and excluded by the other girls. I fully agree with the outcome.
So...the trans girl has the right to be around the sex of others she prefers, but the other girls literally do not have that same right?

Oh yeah. Clear now.
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Old 11th February 2021, 02:52 PM   #4091
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The unstated argument here is that transwomen should be thrown into men's prison, which by all characterization by those attempting to deny trans people their rights, is practically sentencing them to serial rape at the hands of men overseen by indifferent authority figures.
And the stated argument, at least by anyone I've seen posting here about it, is that transwomen should have their own wing. It's always better to go with stated arguments rather than filling a strawman with your own imagined unstated arguments.
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Old 11th February 2021, 02:53 PM   #4092
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
I support the trans girl in this case who was being discriminated against and excluded by the other girls. I fully agree with the outcome.
I get that.

I was pointing out that you said there were "no real concerns", and that it was all what ifs and slippery slopes.

No, it isn't. It's real people right now. You don't care about their concerns? I get that, too.
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Old 11th February 2021, 02:55 PM   #4093
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
We get that but how is it that you can say the other girls have no concerns worth talking about? Why not say everyone in the room has feelings which ought to be taken into account?
Because the other girls' concerns were prejudicial and discriminatory in origin. First they wanted to exclude her entirely, then they wanted an unfair burden placed on her and her alone. It would be the same if they wanted to exclude another girl for her race or ethnicity, their concerns wouldn't be taken into account in that situation either.

Feeling uncomfortable is not an excuse for discrimination. And it looks like any girls who have an issue with privacy have the option to request it, so their 'concerns' have been addressed as well.

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Old 11th February 2021, 03:00 PM   #4094
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
Because the other girls' concerns were prejudicial and discriminatory in origin.
Suppose these girls want to keep their cisgender male classmates out of the same room, for the same reasons. Should that also be termed prejudicial?
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Old 11th February 2021, 03:02 PM   #4095
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
Because the other girls' concerns were prejudicial and discriminatory in origin. First they wanted to exclude her entirely, then they wanted an unfair burden placed on her and her alone. It would be the same if they wanted to exclude another girl for her race or ethnicity, their concerns wouldn't be taken into account in that situation either.
Race and ethnicity are not the same as sex and gender. Most significantly, the male-female divide is real and meaningful, but the black-white divide is not.

Also, the girls' concerns were no more prejudicial and discriminatory than your own concerns about harassment in male locker rooms.
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Old 11th February 2021, 03:04 PM   #4096
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
Ermahgerd, the sky is falling!

Once again, these paranoid and delusional fantasies of a dystopian future for cisgender women are completely unfounded.

I can imagine a TERF writer coming up with a sci-fi story with that premise, however. Unfortunately for her, she would get swiftly cancelled. Oh well.
Paranoid and delusional fantasies, eh?

females don't have the right to prevent males from looking at them when they're naked
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/SPP_Or...ntoDismiss.pdf
Judge Alonso concludes that young girls have no right to visual privacy - they have no right to prevent males from looking at them naked without their consent. That is pretty much equivalent to legalizing peeing toms and voyeurism.

nor will females have any right to object if a male exposes their penis to a female
The law came down on the side of Colleen Brenna, and sided with that person's right to have her penis viewable by minor females in the changing room, regardless of whether those girls wanted to see it. Pretty much legalizing flashing and exhibitionism.

Females will certainly not have a right to compete in sports fairly.
Well, Biden just took care of that, didn't he?

they won't have the right to fair representation in politics or to fully participate in the economy on equal footing.
NY has a completely untransitioned transwoman as the "female" representative, supposedly to uphold the needs and interests of female constituents. A few female seats in the UK have been taken by transwomen, which reduces the representation of females in politics. A transwoman was named the most successful female CEO. Eddie Izzard was named the funniest female comedian.

They won't even have the right to be reasonably protected from sexual assault in prison, because the won't have the right to expect that penises won't be present.
California has led the way with that one, allowing transwomen to be placed in female prisons on the basis of their self-identification. Canada has done the same, and also the UK. There've already been several cases of female prisoners' being raped by testicle-having prostate bearer's penises as a result.

So... tell me again how my view of things that have already happened and are continuing to happen are "paranoid and delusional"?
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Old 11th February 2021, 03:06 PM   #4097
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
There are no actual concerns here, just "what if" scenarios and slippery slopes.
They are all things that are ALREADY happening.
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Old 11th February 2021, 03:08 PM   #4098
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Suppose these girls want to keep their cisgender male classmates out of the same room, for the same reasons. Should that also be termed prejudicial?
This kind of argument has been used many times before in this thread and no, it wouldn't be. I have never argued for males (either cisgender or transgender) to be given access to the same facilities as females, only that transgender females aren't excluded by cisgender females.
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Old 11th February 2021, 03:10 PM   #4099
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
This kind of argument has been used many times before in this thread and no, it wouldn't be.
Why not, though? Why is it okay (in your view) for the girls to discriminate based on gender but not genitals?
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Old 11th February 2021, 03:17 PM   #4100
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Why not, though? Why is it okay (in your view) for the girls to discriminate based on gender but not genitals?
Because genitals do not determine gender, as I have stated before. A female/woman can have a penis and a male/man can have a vulva.
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Old 11th February 2021, 03:19 PM   #4101
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That's a classic begging of the question. These facilities, when set up, were segregated by sex. You have given no explanation at all why you suddenly insist they should be segregated by "gender", other than your own person al feelings.
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Old 11th February 2021, 03:20 PM   #4102
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Paranoid and delusional fantasies, eh?

females don't have the right to prevent males from looking at them when they're naked
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/SPP_Or...ntoDismiss.pdf
Judge Alonso concludes that young girls have no right to visual privacy - they have no right to prevent males from looking at them naked without their consent. That is pretty much equivalent to legalizing peeing toms and voyeurism.

nor will females have any right to object if a male exposes their penis to a female
The law came down on the side of Colleen Brenna, and sided with that person's right to have her penis viewable by minor females in the changing room, regardless of whether those girls wanted to see it. Pretty much legalizing flashing and exhibitionism.

Females will certainly not have a right to compete in sports fairly.
Well, Biden just took care of that, didn't he?

they won't have the right to fair representation in politics or to fully participate in the economy on equal footing.
NY has a completely untransitioned transwoman as the "female" representative, supposedly to uphold the needs and interests of female constituents. A few female seats in the UK have been taken by transwomen, which reduces the representation of females in politics. A transwoman was named the most successful female CEO. Eddie Izzard was named the funniest female comedian.

They won't even have the right to be reasonably protected from sexual assault in prison, because the won't have the right to expect that penises won't be present.
California has led the way with that one, allowing transwomen to be placed in female prisons on the basis of their self-identification. Canada has done the same, and also the UK. There've already been several cases of female prisoners' being raped by testicle-having prostate bearer's penises as a result.

So... tell me again how my view of things that have already happened and are continuing to happen are "paranoid and delusional"?
These are your very one-sided interpretations of these events.
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Old 11th February 2021, 03:20 PM   #4103
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
This kind of argument has been used many times before in this thread and no, it wouldn't be. I have never argued for males (either cisgender or transgender) to be given access to the same facilities as females, only that transgender females aren't excluded by cisgender females.
You do not understand what 'female' means....
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Old 11th February 2021, 03:21 PM   #4104
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
Because genitals do not determine gender, as I have stated before. A female/woman can have a penis and a male/man can have a vulva.
That's not actually an answer.
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Old 11th February 2021, 03:22 PM   #4105
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
Because genitals do not determine gender, as I have stated before.
Stipulated, but why is it okay to discriminate against just one of these unchosen personal characteristics?
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Old 11th February 2021, 03:28 PM   #4106
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Mod Info The discussion continues here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=349560
Posted By:Agatha
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