Riots, looting, vandalism, etc. - Page 62

portlandatheist · 27th January 2021, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

And what about

says the person accusing me of whataboutism because I'm critical of Portland riots when there are worse riots in Washington D.C.

portlandatheist · 27th January 2021, 09:07 PM

Full statement from the douche bag that bullied Ted Wheeler (of which, I am no fan)

Quote:

“I am remorseful for my decision to confront Mayor Wheeler on Sunday, Jan. 24, and I am sorry that he felt the need to use pepper spray.

“I cherish Portland and our local community and recognize that Mayor Wheeler has a very difficult job.

“I have contacted Mayor Wheeler’s office to request an opportunity to amicably resolve this matter.

“I would also like to apologize to my law partners for my conduct.”

SuburbanTurkey · 28th January 2021, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Cary Cadonau, the person bullying Ted Wheeler has apologized for his actions saying "I am remorseful for my decision to confront Mayor Wheeler on Sunday, Jan. 24, and I am sorry he felt the need to use pepper spray"

Cary Cadonau is a bully and douche bag

Tear gas ted pepper spraying another rich guy, you love to see it.

I think this should set the precedent. Street fights between rich heirs should be the norm.

Pope130 · 28th January 2021, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Tear gas ted pepper spraying another rich guy, you love to see it.

I think this should set the precedent. Street fights between rich heirs should be the norm.

Perhaps this will serve as a precedent for bringing back dueling. When two rich entitled guys had a dispute they'd go off to a safe location and shoot it out under supervision. No collateral damage.

johnny karate · 30th January 2021, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

says the person accusing me of whataboutism because I'm critical of Portland riots when there are worse riots in Washington D.C.

What a weird, sad attempt at a gotcha.

Also, it wasn’t a “riot” in D.C. It was a violent insurrection to overthrow the results of an election.

Please at least get that right.

portlandatheist · 31st January 2021, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

What a weird, sad attempt at a gotcha.

Also, it wasn’t a “riot” in D.C. It was a violent insurrection to overthrow the results of an election.

Please at least get that right.

It was both a riot and a violent insurrection, they are not mutually exclusive. CNN, MSNBC, etc. consistently refer to the Jan. 6th event as the "capitol riot". FWIW, rationalwiki refers to the event as a riot
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/2021_U.S._Capitol_riot

johnny karate · 31st January 2021, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

It was both a riot and a violent insurrection, they are not mutually exclusive. CNN, MSNBC, etc. consistently refer to the Jan. 6th event as the "capitol riot". FWIW, rationalwiki refers to the event as a riot
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/2021_U.S._Capitol_riot

Do they refer to it as a riot and only a riot when disingenuously comparing it to other riots that didn’t go beyond being a riot?

SuburbanTurkey · 17th February 2021, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Multiple layers of fencing & barriers started going up this week around government buildings. City Hall, the Minneapolis Police precincts, Minneapolis Public Service Building, Hennepin County Government Center and the Hennepin Public Safety Building will all get the treatment.

https://twitter.com/daviss/status/1361844371671441413

Jury selection for the case of the police murder of George Floyd starts March 8th.

portlandatheist · 17th February 2021, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

https://twitter.com/daviss/status/1361844371671441413

Jury selection for the case of the police murder of George Floyd starts March 8th.

Quote:

Multiple layers of fencing & barriers started going up this week around government buildings. City Hall, the Minneapolis Police precincts, Minneapolis Public Service Building, Hennepin County Government Center and the Hennepin Public Safety Building will all get the treatment.

Three layers of barricades to protect the buildings from potential rioters. You must be absolutely horrified and disgusted that they would resort to the use of fences to protect government buildings and the jurors that are within them. This is like something out of the Mark O. Hatfield US Courthouse playbook

johnny karate · 17th February 2021, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Three layers of barricades to protect the buildings from potential rioters. You must be absolutely horrified and disgusted that they would resort to the use of fences to protect government buildings and the jurors that are within them. This is like something out of the Mark O. Hatfield US Courthouse playbook

After how dangerously unhinged and violent right wingers have demonstrated themselves to be, we should probably have barricades around every Capitol building in the country.

portlandatheist · 17th February 2021, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

After how dangerously unhinged and violent right wingers have demonstrated themselves to be, we should probably have barricades around every Capitol building in the country.

absolutely any government building at risk from rioters should be protected with barricades and personnel. There was a great deal of butt hurt and gnashing of teeth around here about the use of fences around government buildings in Portland but it actually made some sense, just as it makes sense at our Capitol

ETA: And clearly, they are called for in this case in Minneapolis just as they were in Portland

johnny karate · 17th February 2021, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

absolutely any government building at risk from rioters should be protected with barricades and personnel. There was a great deal of butt hurt and gnashing of teeth around here about the use of fences around government buildings in Portland but it actually made some sense, just as it makes sense at our Capitol

Well, in fairness, that was before right wing terrorists stormed the U.S. Capitol in a violent insurrection and murdered a cop. Run-of-the-mill rioters seems also quaint by comparison.

portlandatheist · 17th February 2021, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

Well, in fairness, that was before right wing terrorists stormed the U.S. Capitol in a violent insurrection and murdered a cop. Run-of-the-mill rioters seems also quaint by comparison.

It's a good reminder that riots are inherently unpredictable and dangerous and they cannot be tolerated or excused.

SuburbanTurkey · 18th February 2021, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

It's a good reminder that riots are inherently unpredictable and dangerous and they cannot be tolerated or excused.

It's a good reminder about who the police deem dangerous and what kinds of political violence they prefer to enable.

Emily's Cat · 18th February 2021, 07:45 AM

Soo... just to catch up... are the cops the good guys in the Capitol, but the bad guys in Portland?

Are the rioters outlier miscreants unrelated to the protest in Portland? Are the rioters innate elements of the protest driving intentional violence in the Capitol?

What's the rules here? In Portland, cops are bad and rioters are unfortunate exceptions to the protest... and in the Capitol, cops are the good guys and protesters are the rare exceptions to the rioting?

SuburbanTurkey · 18th February 2021, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Soo... just to catch up... are the cops the good guys in the capitol, but the bad guys in Portland?

Which cops at the capitol, the ones breaking in or the ones letting them break in?

When in doubt, ACAB.

Emily's Cat · 18th February 2021, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Which cops at the capitol, the ones breaking in or the ones letting them break in?

What CT is this now?

johnny karate · 18th February 2021, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Soo... just to catch up... are the cops the good guys in the Capitol, but the bad guys in Portland?

Are the rioters outlier miscreants unrelated to the protest in Portland? Are the rioters innate elements of the protest driving intentional violence in the Capitol?

What's the rules here? In Portland, cops are bad and rioters are unfortunate exceptions to the protest... and in the Capitol, cops are the good guys and protesters are the rare exceptions to the rioting?

No.

SuburbanTurkey · 18th February 2021, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

What CT is this now?

Multiple off duty cops were arrested for participating in the break-in. Are you referring to the cops that were engaged in a variety of felonies, or the ones working the barricades? You have to be more specific.

johnny karate · 18th February 2021, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

What CT is this now?

Educate yourself:

Quote:

Several U.S. Capitol Police officers have been suspended and more than a dozen others are under investigation for suspected involvement with or inappropriate support for the demonstration last week that turned into a deadly riot at the Capitol, according to members of Congress, police officials and staff members briefed on the developments.

johnny karate · 18th February 2021, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

It's a good reminder that riots are inherently unpredictable and dangerous and they cannot be tolerated or excused.

Yes, an insurrection could spontaneously occur at any time. No way to predict that at all.

ponderingturtle · 18th February 2021, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

What CT is this now?

The one that holds that off duty cops were wrong to be part of the attempted coup. Clearly as they were cops they were right to be there to exicute those opposed to the rightful government.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/15/95689...-in-capitol-ri

https://time.com/5929398/police-offi...riots-charges/

They are only supposed to be attacking black people on the job, not police officers and the government in their free time!

Mumbles · 18th February 2021, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Soo... just to catch up... are the cops the good guys in the Capitol, but the bad guys in Portland?

Are the rioters outlier miscreants unrelated to the protest in Portland? Are the rioters innate elements of the protest driving intentional violence in the Capitol?

What's the rules here? In Portland, cops are bad and rioters are unfortunate exceptions to the protest... and in the Capitol, cops are the good guys and protesters are the rare exceptions to the rioting?

The rule is, cops should use appropriate levels of force.

Black people want to march nonviolently? Police should allow it in almost all circumstances

White supremacists violently attack the Capitol in the hopes of overthrowing a democratically elected government? Crowd dispersal, and lethal force if necessary, are allowable, but don't pose for photos and wave them in.

Oddly, police tend to respond violently to protestors (the worst of which was the year-long siege of a neighborhood in Ferguson, and the wild overuse of tear gas in Portland), but grin and wave at white supremacists right up until one of them starts murdering cops - at which point the cops begin attacking random black people in response.

portlandatheist · 18th February 2021, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

Yes, an insurrection could spontaneously occur at any time. No way to predict that at all.

It was definitely not spontaneous and expected by just about everybody. Are you completely unable to understand anything I say?

SuburbanTurkey · 18th February 2021, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

It was definitely not spontaneous and expected by just about everybody. Are you completely unable to understand anything I say?

They're only expected if Chauvin gets away with murder. If he's convicted, it'll be a giant street party.

portlandatheist · 18th February 2021, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

They're only expected if Chauvin gets away with murder. If he's convicted, it'll be a giant street party.

You guys need to really work on your reading comprehension, I was referring to the capitol insurrection. But since you bring it up: obviously and clearly, there will be rioting if Chauvin gets away with murder and they will need to make use of fences in such a scenario. It is also important that they protect the building during jury selection process which it appears they are doing.

johnny karate · 18th February 2021, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

It was definitely not spontaneous and expected by just about everybody. Are you completely unable to understand anything I say?

“Unpredictable” was the word you used.

portlandatheist · 18th February 2021, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

“Unpredictable” was the word you used.

Are you actually confused about the distinction between the predictability of what happens at a riot vs. the predictability of a riot occurring or are you pretending to be confused?
What happens at a riot is obviously unpredictable whereas the occurrence of rioting can be very predictable.
Here is an example:
If Derek Chauvin is acquitted, there will be a riot (predictable)
Who gets hurt or killed, what gets burned or damaged, etc is more difficult to predict.

johnny karate · 18th February 2021, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Are you actually confused about the distinction between the predictability of what happens at a riot vs. the predictability of a riot occurring or are you pretending to be confused?
What happens at a riot is obviously unpredictable whereas the occurrence of rioting can be very predictable.
Here is an example:
If Derek Chauvin is acquitted, there will be a riot (predictable)
Who gets hurt or killed, what gets burned or damaged, etc is more difficult to predict.

Cool, as long as we’re acknowledging that riots don’t spontaneously turn into insurrections.

Mumbles · 19th February 2021, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Are you actually confused about the distinction between the predictability of what happens at a riot vs. the predictability of a riot occurring or are you pretending to be confused?
What happens at a riot is obviously unpredictable whereas the occurrence of rioting can be very predictable.
Here is an example:
If Derek Chauvin is acquitted, there will be a riot (predictable)
Who gets hurt or killed, what gets burned or damaged, etc is more difficult to predict.

How predictable is any rioting, given that most such "we're ignoring all evidence and passing down a not guilty verdict" cases result in little or no rioting at all - except in cases where cops immediately begin to riot? and attack protest groups?

If anything, an actual guilty verdict would be the unpredicted result, and a cause for celebration among protestors.

Bogative · 20th February 2021, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

A knife in his car? That's pretty weak.

I have a knife in my car. Hell, I probably have 2 knives in my car, you know how it is, things go into the glove box and disappear forever.

Does that mean I can get shot 7 times in the back by a cop?

Really enjoying the Twitter detectives blowing up the grainy video and claiming to see a knife in Blake's hand.

I was right.

The left-wing media, once again, whipped a bunch of gullible morons into a frenzy that caused massive amounts of rioting, looting and violence by blatantly lying to them.

Quote:

During a news conference, Graveley said Officer Rusten Sheskey, who shot Blake seven times, was justified in his use of force on Aug. 23 because Blake was armed with a knife, refused orders to drop it and made a motion as if he was going to stab Sheskey. He said the evidence shows Sheskey fired in self-defense.

Graveley said Blake admitted to investigators that he was armed with a knife throughout the entire encounter with the officers.

Any member of the media who reported that Blake was unarmed should be prosecuted for inciting a riot.

Thermal · 20th February 2021, 05:28 PM

I see the cop used the "I'm trained to keep shooting till they drop" defense, aka the Poodle Protocol. Just too damned stupid to do anything but overkill.

Also says Blake was coming at him with the knife. Backwards and still in the car, from the video. Yeah, that warrants seven bullets in the back at point blank range in the space of about two seconds. Give that poodle a Milk-Bone.

Bogative · 20th February 2021, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

I see the cop used the "I'm trained to keep shooting till they drop" defense, aka the Poodle Protocol. Just too damned stupid to do anything but overkill.

Also says Blake was coming at him with the knife. Backwards and still in the car, from the video. Yeah, that warrants seven bullets in the back at point blank range in the space of about two seconds. Give that poodle a Milk-Bone.

Also known as shooting until there is no longer a threat.

Both officers involved and two separate eyewitnesses from the neighborhood testified that Blake turned and thrust his right hand, the hand holding the knife, toward the officer in a stabbing motion.

portlandatheist · 20th February 2021, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

How predictable is any rioting, given that most such "we're ignoring all evidence and passing down a not guilty verdict" cases result in little or no rioting at all - except in cases where cops immediately begin to riot? and attack protest groups?

If anything, an actual guilty verdict would be the unpredicted result, and a cause for celebration among protestors.

It is very predictable that a "ignore the evidence and give a not guilty verdict" will result in riots. Let's hope the jury does the right thing and let's be grateful that they have protected the building that potential jurors are going to with a fence. Many people around here were super butthurt that fences were used to protect government buildings and government continuity in PDX.

Mumbles · 20th February 2021, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

It is very predictable that a "ignore the evidence and give a not guilty verdict" will result in riots. Let's hope the jury does the right thing and let's be grateful that they have protected the building that potential jurors are going to with a fence. Many people around here were super butthurt that fences were used to protect government buildings and government continuity in PDX.

I can think of a total of one such case in the past few years - that of Ferguson, where an egregiously violent and racist police force openly treated the community like a war zone filled with enemy combatants throughout the year - while often leaving it to the protestors to provide actual protection to stores and other property, despite being, in many cases, within eyesight of any actual problems. And all of that in favor of what amounted to a white supremacist shakedown scheme to fund the town's government by inflicting onerous fines on black residents. This is hardly what I would consider "very predictable" - unless you're alleging that open white supremacist scams are the order of the day throughout US police forces.

johnny karate · 21st February 2021, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Many people around here were super butthurt that fences were used to protect government buildings and government continuity in PDX.

There’s beating a dead horse and then there’s reanimating its corpse so you can kill it and beat it over and over again.

portlandatheist · 23rd February 2021, 10:53 AM

There is some good news for a change: The Apple store has reopened this Monday after being closed for 9 months. It has removed the boards, fences, and barricades.

SuburbanTurkey · 26th February 2021, 06:14 PM

Joey Gibson, leader of Washington state extremist group Patriot Prayer, will shortly be going to trial over his involvement in his group's attack on the bar Cider Riot.

Quote:

Joey Gibson, leader of far-right Patriot Prayer, will have to face charges over his involvement in a 2019 street brawl. A fed judge tossed his claim that his riot charge was part of a "sham prosecution" meant to "shut him up."

https://twitter.com/karinapdx/status...53479729225728

This incident, made famous by fascist propagandist Andy Ngo, was originally portrayed as a spontaneous fight between Patriot Prayer and antifascists at the bar. An inside informant later produced video showing that the attack was premeditated by the right wing group. Andy Ngo was present during the planning of the attack and did not include any of this in his original reporting.

Several members of Patriot Prayer were indicted for the attack, some have already plead guilty.

Gibson's trial for felony riot begins March 8th.

https://www.courthousenews.com/judge...l-persecution/

28th January 2021, 05:02 AM	#2443
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,009	Originally Posted by portlandatheist Cary Cadonau, the person bullying Ted Wheeler has apologized for his actions saying "I am remorseful for my decision to confront Mayor Wheeler on Sunday, Jan. 24, and I am sorry he felt the need to use pepper spray" Cary Cadonau is a bully and douche bag Tear gas ted pepper spraying another rich guy, you love to see it. I think this should set the precedent. Street fights between rich heirs should be the norm.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

30th January 2021, 10:10 AM	#2445
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,527	Originally Posted by portlandatheist says the person accusing me of whataboutism because I'm critical of Portland riots when there are worse riots in Washington D.C. What a weird, sad attempt at a gotcha. Also, it wasn’t a “riot” in D.C. It was a violent insurrection to overthrow the results of an election. Please at least get that right.
	Last edited by johnny karate; 30th January 2021 at 11:50 AM.

31st January 2021, 06:03 PM	#2446
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,611	Originally Posted by johnny karate What a weird, sad attempt at a gotcha. Also, it wasn’t a “riot” in D.C. It was a violent insurrection to overthrow the results of an election. Please at least get that right. It was both a riot and a violent insurrection, they are not mutually exclusive. CNN, MSNBC, etc. consistently refer to the Jan. 6th event as the "capitol riot". FWIW, rationalwiki refers to the event as a riot https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/2021_U.S._Capitol_riot
	Last edited by portlandatheist; 31st January 2021 at 06:05 PM. Reason: ETA

31st January 2021, 07:19 PM	#2447
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,527	Originally Posted by portlandatheist It was both a riot and a violent insurrection, they are not mutually exclusive. CNN, MSNBC, etc. consistently refer to the Jan. 6th event as the "capitol riot". FWIW, rationalwiki refers to the event as a riot https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/2021_U.S._Capitol_riot Do they refer to it as a riot and only a riot when disingenuously comparing it to other riots that didn’t go beyond being a riot?
	Last edited by johnny karate; 31st January 2021 at 07:32 PM.

17th February 2021, 08:52 AM	#2448
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,009	Quote: Multiple layers of fencing & barriers started going up this week around government buildings. City Hall, the Minneapolis Police precincts, Minneapolis Public Service Building, Hennepin County Government Center and the Hennepin Public Safety Building will all get the treatment. https://twitter.com/daviss/status/1361844371671441413 Jury selection for the case of the police murder of George Floyd starts March 8th.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

27th January 2021, 08:33 PM	#2441
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,611	Originally Posted by johnny karate And what about says the person accusing me of whataboutism because I'm critical of Portland riots when there are worse riots in Washington D.C.

27th January 2021, 09:07 PM	#2442
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,611	Full statement from the douche bag that bullied Ted Wheeler (of which, I am no fan) Quote: “I am remorseful for my decision to confront Mayor Wheeler on Sunday, Jan. 24, and I am sorry that he felt the need to use pepper spray. “I cherish Portland and our local community and recognize that Mayor Wheeler has a very difficult job. “I have contacted Mayor Wheeler’s office to request an opportunity to amicably resolve this matter. “I would also like to apologize to my law partners for my conduct.”

28th January 2021, 08:00 AM	#2444
Pope130 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 3,498	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Tear gas ted pepper spraying another rich guy, you love to see it. I think this should set the precedent. Street fights between rich heirs should be the norm. Perhaps this will serve as a precedent for bringing back dueling. When two rich entitled guys had a dispute they'd go off to a safe location and shoot it out under supervision. No collateral damage.

17th February 2021, 08:10 PM	#2449
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,611	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey https://twitter.com/daviss/status/1361844371671441413 Jury selection for the case of the police murder of George Floyd starts March 8th. Quote: Multiple layers of fencing & barriers started going up this week around government buildings. City Hall, the Minneapolis Police precincts, Minneapolis Public Service Building, Hennepin County Government Center and the Hennepin Public Safety Building will all get the treatment. Three layers of barricades to protect the buildings from potential rioters. You must be absolutely horrified and disgusted that they would resort to the use of fences to protect government buildings and the jurors that are within them. This is like something out of the Mark O. Hatfield US Courthouse playbook

17th February 2021, 08:19 PM	#2450
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,527	Originally Posted by portlandatheist Three layers of barricades to protect the buildings from potential rioters. You must be absolutely horrified and disgusted that they would resort to the use of fences to protect government buildings and the jurors that are within them. This is like something out of the Mark O. Hatfield US Courthouse playbook After how dangerously unhinged and violent right wingers have demonstrated themselves to be, we should probably have barricades around every Capitol building in the country.

17th February 2021, 08:48 PM	#2451
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,611	Originally Posted by johnny karate After how dangerously unhinged and violent right wingers have demonstrated themselves to be, we should probably have barricades around every Capitol building in the country. absolutely any government building at risk from rioters should be protected with barricades and personnel. There was a great deal of butt hurt and gnashing of teeth around here about the use of fences around government buildings in Portland but it actually made some sense, just as it makes sense at our Capitol ETA: And clearly, they are called for in this case in Minneapolis just as they were in Portland
	Last edited by portlandatheist; 17th February 2021 at 08:53 PM. Reason: ETA

17th February 2021, 08:54 PM	#2452
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,527	Originally Posted by portlandatheist absolutely any government building at risk from rioters should be protected with barricades and personnel. There was a great deal of butt hurt and gnashing of teeth around here about the use of fences around government buildings in Portland but it actually made some sense, just as it makes sense at our Capitol Well, in fairness, that was before right wing terrorists stormed the U.S. Capitol in a violent insurrection and murdered a cop. Run-of-the-mill rioters seems also quaint by comparison.

17th February 2021, 09:04 PM	#2453
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,611	Originally Posted by johnny karate Well, in fairness, that was before right wing terrorists stormed the U.S. Capitol in a violent insurrection and murdered a cop. Run-of-the-mill rioters seems also quaint by comparison. It's a good reminder that riots are inherently unpredictable and dangerous and they cannot be tolerated or excused.

18th February 2021, 05:28 AM	#2454
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,009	Originally Posted by portlandatheist It's a good reminder that riots are inherently unpredictable and dangerous and they cannot be tolerated or excused. It's a good reminder about who the police deem dangerous and what kinds of political violence they prefer to enable.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

18th February 2021, 07:45 AM	#2455
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 14,804	Soo... just to catch up... are the cops the good guys in the Capitol, but the bad guys in Portland? Are the rioters outlier miscreants unrelated to the protest in Portland? Are the rioters innate elements of the protest driving intentional violence in the Capitol? What's the rules here? In Portland, cops are bad and rioters are unfortunate exceptions to the protest... and in the Capitol, cops are the good guys and protesters are the rare exceptions to the rioting?
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me. Last edited by Emily's Cat; 18th February 2021 at 07:48 AM.

18th February 2021, 07:47 AM	#2456
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,009	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Soo... just to catch up... are the cops the good guys in the capitol, but the bad guys in Portland? Which cops at the capitol, the ones breaking in or the ones letting them break in? When in doubt, ACAB.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

18th February 2021, 07:54 AM	#2457
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 14,804	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Which cops at the capitol, the ones breaking in or the ones letting them break in? What CT is this now?
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

18th February 2021, 07:59 AM	#2458
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,527	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Soo... just to catch up... are the cops the good guys in the Capitol, but the bad guys in Portland? Are the rioters outlier miscreants unrelated to the protest in Portland? Are the rioters innate elements of the protest driving intentional violence in the Capitol? What's the rules here? In Portland, cops are bad and rioters are unfortunate exceptions to the protest... and in the Capitol, cops are the good guys and protesters are the rare exceptions to the rioting? No.

18th February 2021, 08:01 AM	#2459
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,009	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat What CT is this now? Multiple off duty cops were arrested for participating in the break-in. Are you referring to the cops that were engaged in a variety of felonies, or the ones working the barricades? You have to be more specific.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

18th February 2021, 08:03 AM	#2460
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,527	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat What CT is this now? Educate yourself: Quote: Several U.S. Capitol Police officers have been suspended and more than a dozen others are under investigation for suspected involvement with or inappropriate support for the demonstration last week that turned into a deadly riot at the Capitol, according to members of Congress, police officials and staff members briefed on the developments.

18th February 2021, 08:05 AM	#2461
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,527	Originally Posted by portlandatheist It's a good reminder that riots are inherently unpredictable and dangerous and they cannot be tolerated or excused. Yes, an insurrection could spontaneously occur at any time. No way to predict that at all.

18th February 2021, 08:11 AM	#2462
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,461	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat What CT is this now? The one that holds that off duty cops were wrong to be part of the attempted coup. Clearly as they were cops they were right to be there to exicute those opposed to the rightful government. https://www.npr.org/2021/01/15/95689...-in-capitol-ri https://time.com/5929398/police-offi...riots-charges/ They are only supposed to be attacking black people on the job, not police officers and the government in their free time!
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

18th February 2021, 08:39 AM	#2463
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,422	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Soo... just to catch up... are the cops the good guys in the Capitol, but the bad guys in Portland? Are the rioters outlier miscreants unrelated to the protest in Portland? Are the rioters innate elements of the protest driving intentional violence in the Capitol? What's the rules here? In Portland, cops are bad and rioters are unfortunate exceptions to the protest... and in the Capitol, cops are the good guys and protesters are the rare exceptions to the rioting? The rule is, cops should use appropriate levels of force. Black people want to march nonviolently? Police should allow it in almost all circumstances White supremacists violently attack the Capitol in the hopes of overthrowing a democratically elected government? Crowd dispersal, and lethal force if necessary, are allowable, but don't pose for photos and wave them in. Oddly, police tend to respond violently to protestors (the worst of which was the year-long siege of a neighborhood in Ferguson, and the wild overuse of tear gas in Portland), but grin and wave at white supremacists right up until one of them starts murdering cops - at which point the cops begin attacking random black people in response.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,422

18th February 2021, 02:36 PM	#2464
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,611	Originally Posted by johnny karate Yes, an insurrection could spontaneously occur at any time. No way to predict that at all. It was definitely not spontaneous and expected by just about everybody. Are you completely unable to understand anything I say?

18th February 2021, 06:40 PM	#2465
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,009	Originally Posted by portlandatheist It was definitely not spontaneous and expected by just about everybody. Are you completely unable to understand anything I say? They're only expected if Chauvin gets away with murder. If he's convicted, it'll be a giant street party.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

18th February 2021, 06:59 PM	#2466
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,611	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey They're only expected if Chauvin gets away with murder. If he's convicted, it'll be a giant street party. You guys need to really work on your reading comprehension, I was referring to the capitol insurrection. But since you bring it up: obviously and clearly, there will be rioting if Chauvin gets away with murder and they will need to make use of fences in such a scenario. It is also important that they protect the building during jury selection process which it appears they are doing.

18th February 2021, 07:07 PM	#2467
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,527	Originally Posted by portlandatheist It was definitely not spontaneous and expected by just about everybody. Are you completely unable to understand anything I say? “Unpredictable” was the word you used.

18th February 2021, 07:31 PM	#2468
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,611	Originally Posted by johnny karate “Unpredictable” was the word you used. Are you actually confused about the distinction between the predictability of what happens at a riot vs. the predictability of a riot occurring or are you pretending to be confused? What happens at a riot is obviously unpredictable whereas the occurrence of rioting can be very predictable. Here is an example: If Derek Chauvin is acquitted, there will be a riot (predictable) Who gets hurt or killed, what gets burned or damaged, etc is more difficult to predict.

18th February 2021, 07:59 PM	#2469
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,527	Originally Posted by portlandatheist Are you actually confused about the distinction between the predictability of what happens at a riot vs. the predictability of a riot occurring or are you pretending to be confused? What happens at a riot is obviously unpredictable whereas the occurrence of rioting can be very predictable. Here is an example: If Derek Chauvin is acquitted, there will be a riot (predictable) Who gets hurt or killed, what gets burned or damaged, etc is more difficult to predict. Cool, as long as we’re acknowledging that riots don’t spontaneously turn into insurrections.

19th February 2021, 05:42 AM	#2470
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,422	Originally Posted by portlandatheist Are you actually confused about the distinction between the predictability of what happens at a riot vs. the predictability of a riot occurring or are you pretending to be confused? What happens at a riot is obviously unpredictable whereas the occurrence of rioting can be very predictable. Here is an example: If Derek Chauvin is acquitted, there will be a riot (predictable) Who gets hurt or killed, what gets burned or damaged, etc is more difficult to predict. How predictable is any rioting, given that most such "we're ignoring all evidence and passing down a not guilty verdict" cases result in little or no rioting at all - except in cases where cops immediately begin to riot? and attack protest groups? If anything, an actual guilty verdict would be the unpredicted result, and a cause for celebration among protestors.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,422

20th February 2021, 05:00 PM	#2471
Bogative Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1,631	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey A knife in his car? That's pretty weak. I have a knife in my car. Hell, I probably have 2 knives in my car, you know how it is, things go into the glove box and disappear forever. Does that mean I can get shot 7 times in the back by a cop? Really enjoying the Twitter detectives blowing up the grainy video and claiming to see a knife in Blake's hand. I was right. The left-wing media, once again, whipped a bunch of gullible morons into a frenzy that caused massive amounts of rioting, looting and violence by blatantly lying to them. Quote: During a news conference, Graveley said Officer Rusten Sheskey, who shot Blake seven times, was justified in his use of force on Aug. 23 because Blake was armed with a knife, refused orders to drop it and made a motion as if he was going to stab Sheskey. He said the evidence shows Sheskey fired in self-defense. Graveley said Blake admitted to investigators that he was armed with a knife throughout the entire encounter with the officers. Any member of the media who reported that Blake was unarmed should be prosecuted for inciting a riot.
	__________________ "We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.” – Joe Biden October 24, 2020

20th February 2021, 05:28 PM	#2472
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,529	I see the cop used the "I'm trained to keep shooting till they drop" defense, aka the Poodle Protocol. Just too damned stupid to do anything but overkill. Also says Blake was coming at him with the knife. Backwards and still in the car, from the video. Yeah, that warrants seven bullets in the back at point blank range in the space of about two seconds. Give that poodle a Milk-Bone.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

20th February 2021, 06:15 PM	#2473
Bogative Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1,631	Originally Posted by Thermal I see the cop used the "I'm trained to keep shooting till they drop" defense, aka the Poodle Protocol. Just too damned stupid to do anything but overkill. Also says Blake was coming at him with the knife. Backwards and still in the car, from the video. Yeah, that warrants seven bullets in the back at point blank range in the space of about two seconds. Give that poodle a Milk-Bone. Also known as shooting until there is no longer a threat. Both officers involved and two separate eyewitnesses from the neighborhood testified that Blake turned and thrust his right hand, the hand holding the knife, toward the officer in a stabbing motion.
	__________________ "We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.” – Joe Biden October 24, 2020

20th February 2021, 07:35 PM	#2474
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,611	Originally Posted by Mumbles How predictable is any rioting, given that most such "we're ignoring all evidence and passing down a not guilty verdict" cases result in little or no rioting at all - except in cases where cops immediately begin to riot? and attack protest groups? If anything, an actual guilty verdict would be the unpredicted result, and a cause for celebration among protestors. It is very predictable that a "ignore the evidence and give a not guilty verdict" will result in riots. Let's hope the jury does the right thing and let's be grateful that they have protected the building that potential jurors are going to with a fence. Many people around here were super butthurt that fences were used to protect government buildings and government continuity in PDX.

20th February 2021, 10:22 PM	#2475
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,422	Originally Posted by portlandatheist It is very predictable that a "ignore the evidence and give a not guilty verdict" will result in riots. Let's hope the jury does the right thing and let's be grateful that they have protected the building that potential jurors are going to with a fence. Many people around here were super butthurt that fences were used to protect government buildings and government continuity in PDX. I can think of a total of one such case in the past few years - that of Ferguson, where an egregiously violent and racist police force openly treated the community like a war zone filled with enemy combatants throughout the year - while often leaving it to the protestors to provide actual protection to stores and other property, despite being, in many cases, within eyesight of any actual problems. And all of that in favor of what amounted to a white supremacist shakedown scheme to fund the town's government by inflicting onerous fines on black residents. This is hardly what I would consider "very predictable" - unless you're alleging that open white supremacist scams are the order of the day throughout US police forces.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,422