(Ed) Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories....

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Pope Anthony is VERY worried about mutations!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/othe...cid=uxbndlbing

That's because he knows more than you. He's better at interpreting data better than you. Also, unlike you, his work doesn't suck donkey balls. Your "work" isn't good enough. Maybe stop trying to get above your station and learn something.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

Well, that's what I've been led to believe over most of my 75 years- that viruses mutate all the time- coronaviruses, flu viruses, rhinoviruses, etc., and the human immune system usually fights them off unless it is inherently weak or has been compromised, even novel flu viruses and novel coronaviruses, which it seems occur every year.

Yeah right.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

You do realise that people are dying all over the world and in countries where it isn't an election year and where countries aren't getting a 'large bonus'? ?

Why do you think it is just about America?

I don't read that "it is just about America" (you meaning the USA) in the post you were replying to. Fancy that it might be "just about capitalism" and the Great Reset of its financial system. Try to think very hard, Kapitän.

[Axxman300]

Originally Posted by Caroline13

NOT SO.

Get your friggin Immune Systems strong and you don't need to worry aboout this and that mutation. Then what would you talk about, a good immune system, lord no.

Then why do people with Leukemia still get colds and flu?

With all of those white corpuscles you'd think a silly virus would stand a chance.

It sounds as if you have no idea how the immune system works.

[Axxman300]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

Did normal human immune systems manage to fight off NEW cold and flu viruses for hundreds of thousands of years without the benefit of flu shots and cold medicines, and now have suddenly become incapacitated?

Short answer: They didn't.

Thousands of years? Until the 20th Century populations were decimated by diseases. As global trade progressed and increased so did the spread of disease. You would be hard-pressed to find a population with a healthier diet and lifestyle than the Native American tribes, but when the Spanish and English arrived they began to die of in vast numbers.

Today with air travel a virus can go global within a week.

We're not incapacitated, we're just not ignorant any more. Where I work I can be fired if I show up with the flu and infect the rest of the staff, and rightly so. Plus, what kind of idiot takes an unnecessary risk that can avoided with a vaccine? I plan to visit Panama some day, and this requires a bunch of vaccines prior to traveling. Why? Because there are virus in Panama that my body is not immune to in any way that can kill me.

[Tom Palven]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

You do realise that people are dying all over the world and in countries where it isn't an election year and where countries aren't getting a 'large bonus'? ?

Why do you think it is just about America?

Yes, people are dying all over the world every day, and they are born all over the world every day.

Are a lot of people dying a lot sooner than they normally would?

Despite alleged excess deaths, it hasn't been proven to my satisfaction that they are.

I've presented a scenario, a relatively simple theory as to what is actually going on, although with lots of dots that seem to connect.

The alternate theory is the emergence of an unprecedentedly lethal coronavirus and he coincidental disappearance of flu viruses, which takes a lot of contorted explaining, and seems to be less compatible with Occam's Razor.

[The Great Zaganza]

the explanation is clear as crystal.
It couldn't be more obvious.


Maybe you haven't thought about it enough.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Axxman300

Short answer: They didn't.

Thousands of years? Until the 20th Century populations were decimated by diseases. As global trade progressed and increased so did the spread of disease. You would be hard-pressed to find a population with a healthier diet and lifestyle than the Native American tribes, but when the Spanish and English arrived they began to die of in vast numbers.

Today with air travel a virus can go global within a week.

We're not incapacitated, we're just not ignorant any more. Where I work I can be fired if I show up with the flu and infect the rest of the staff, and rightly so. Plus, what kind of idiot takes an unnecessary risk that can avoided with a vaccine? I plan to visit Panama some day, and this requires a bunch of vaccines prior to traveling. Why? Because there are virus in Panama that my body is not immune to in any way that can kill me.

My goto fact about vaccinations:

In 1992 there was a polio outbreak in the Netherlands, which had 97% polio vaccination coverage. This outbreak affected 71 patients of whom 59 were paralysed and 2 died. None had been vaccinated.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7915354/

[The Great Zaganza]

Caroline might not be aware of this, but the "all you need is a good immune system" line is getting dangerously close to eugenics territory:
we know that ethnic minorities, in particular Latinos and Blacks, are disproportionately likely to catch Covd and suffer serious health issues and death from it.
I don't think Caroline is making a "maybe they just don't wash their hands" argument, but her posts could be read that way if one was not inclined to give the benefit of the doubt.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

Yes, people are dying all over the world every day, and they are born all over the world every day.

Are a lot of people dying a lot sooner than they normally would?

Despite alleged excess deaths, it hasn't been proven to my satisfaction that they are.

I've presented a scenario, a relatively simple theory as to what is actually going on, although with lots of dots that seem to connect.

The alternate theory is the emergence of an unprecedentedly lethal coronavirus and he coincidental disappearance of flu viruses, which takes a lot of contorted explaining, and seems to be less compatible with Occam's Razor.

London, England was heavily affected. Look at the raw all-cause deaths for 2020 there. And the cumulative death totals to the middle of the year. I've chosen this as the simplest graph. It has also been bad in the winter



What caused the death rate to triple in April?

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

Right from the get-go the vague Chinese Weapons lab and Pangolin stories smelled fishy, and I began gathering facts.

See my earlier comment about confirmation bias. You experienced an emotional reaction, and then began a post hoc process of reinforcing that initial reaction. This is not the way to a valid conclusion. Look at what you said: 'I came to a conclusion, and then started looking for facts to support it'. This is the exact opposite of what you should have done.

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

Except, apparently, in the Presidential-election year, where Covid-19 was listed as the cause of death for people in nursing homes on hospice care, and political science trumped biological science.

Citation needed, for the US and also for the rest of the world.
Could you also explain what you think the purpose of this Evil Plan was? To make Trump look bad, or rather, worse, by making him look (more) like an incompetent, self-serving buffoon who only made the epidemic worse? How did this happen? Can you give examples of Democrats influencing doctors and coroners anywhere in the world?
Why would every other country in the world be involved with this?

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

Also, FactCheck confirmed that hospitals get a large government bonus when they report covid as a contributing factor in deaths, whereas they don't for C. diff. FactCheck pulled that report, but the same info is available elsewhere.

Citation needed.
FactCheck themselves say this claim is untrue:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/ho...9-death-count/

What you need to do, then, is show when they published what you claim they published, and when it was 'pulled'. Your claim, your burden of proof.

Then some data from hospitals outside the US (we do have some, you know), showing the same thing- payments from the American government, or their own (you're not clear on which government is making these payments). If not, then perhaps you could explain why hospitals globally are reporting large numbers of Covid cases, without being paid by their respective governments to do so.

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

If hospitals were paid to report C. diff as a death co-factor, fearmongers could report millions of C. diff deaths world-wide every year.

Unevidenced claim, based on your previous unevidenced claim. Not worth considering further.

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

I went over all this ad nauseum at Skeptics.com with quotes from The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements and other sources, connecting a lot of dots that indicate that Covid-19 is less a catastrophic plague, and more a colossal fiction. It's still there to see, and I won't repeat it here.

So you have evidence, but you won't share it here, because reasons.
As has been pointed out to you before, 'join the dots' is an exercise in conspiratorial pareidolia.
Some indication of how this 'colossal fiction' has been staged would be useful. Otherwise, this is yet another of your unevidenced claims, and not worth the effort of consideration.
So, evidence, please.

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

Imvho, if we could explain why billions of people have come to believe that an angel hovered over the Virgin Mary causing her to give birth to the Son of God who died for our sins, that it might go a long way toward explaining what kind of economic and political factors interacted to cause billions of people to accept the notion that a common-cold coronavirus is a plague of Biblical proportions and the flu has mysteriously disappeared.

One of the major issues with conspiracy theorists like yourself is this blind dogmatism. The claim that flu has 'disappeared' has been dealt with here. You have simply ignored all the evidence, and carried on your paranoid monologue regardless.
You did promise earlier to examine the data for excess deaths with which you were provided, among a lot of other evidence. Have you done that? If you want us to believe your claims are based on evidence, you should, at some point, actually consider the evidence. It might lend some credibility to your stance.
I should point out, looking at yet another of your religious analogies, that many of the prominent anti-vaxxers claim vaccines are Satanic. I have yet to hear a counter-claim tha vaccines come from God. Even from the Pope, who has been vaccinated. Nor have I seen any evidence for the 'Satanic' nature of vaccines, nor even what that's supposed to mean.
Given your professed antipathy to religious-style delusions, what do you think about this assertion?

[Aridas]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

Maybe you haven't thought about it enough.

Just thinking about it more is unlikely to help when GIGO is in effect.

[Matthew Ellard]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

Yes, people are dying all over the world every day, and they are born all over the world every day.

A third of Europe died in the Black Death. 500,000 died in the USA this year and 2.5 million around the world because of Covid-19. You didn't know that until we told you.

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

, it hasn't been proven to my satisfaction that they are.

[color="Navy"]

Edited by zooterkin:

<SNIP> Edited for rule 0, rule 8, and rule 12.

[Matthew Ellard]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

The alternate theory is the emergence of an unprecedentedly lethal coronavirus and he coincidental disappearance of flu viruses, which takes a lot of contorted explaining,

Social distancing and masks reduce virus infection. Influenza and Covid-19 are both viruses.

Are you really unable to follow basic logic?

[The Great Zaganza]

Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard

Social distancing and masks reduce virus infection. Influenza and Covid-19 are both viruses.

Are you really unable to follow basic logic?

mask manufactures are paying off Big Flu to sit out this season.
It's the only explanation.

[Matthew Ellard]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

normal human immune systems manage to fight off NEW cold and flu viruses for hundreds of thousands of years without the benefit of flu shots and cold medicines.

One third of Europe died in the Black death.

Here is a drawing of London in the 17th century lockdown.

You really want to go back to this, without vaccines?

Tell us about your Ron Paul theories of white people eugenics?

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

I went over all this ad nauseum at Skeptics.com with quotes from The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements and other sources, connecting a lot of dots that indicate that Covid-19 is less a catastrophic plague, and more a colossal fiction. It's still there to see, and I won't repeat it here.

I was curious to see the evidence that you won't show us on this forum, so I searched for Skeptics.com.
This is what I found:



Are you sure that's the name of the other forum where you posted all this special secret evidence?

[Foster Zygote]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

I have a BS from Cornell U.

A BS in what? Certainly not anything even remotely related to epidemiology.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

Don't know, Steve, irrelevant garbage snipped

Exactly You don't know. From your posts here it is clear that you do not know anything about COVID-19. You have your nose firmly wedged in the butts of those who make up US-centric fantasies. You have no idea what is happening in the rest of the world that is equally affected. You have no explanation for why your USA conspiracy would be carried out by other countries. You certainly have not even considered why countries such as China, Iran, and Russia would be happy to play along with a US conspiracy intended to affect internal US politics and the profitability of US hospitals. You thrive on ignorance and lies.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard

Social distancing and masks reduce virus infection. Influenza and Covid-19 are both viruses.

Are you really unable to follow basic logic?

Well, based on the more than ample evidence we have seen here......

[zooterkin]

A reminder, address what other members say, not who they are. Please also refresh your memory what rule 8 says.

Posted By:zooterkin

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

A BS in what?

Nothing. It's just BS.

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Caroline13

Get your friggin Immune Systems strong and you don't need to worry aboout this and that mutation.

Of course our prayers make our warriors bullet proof! The ones who died simply didn't pray hard enough.

[varwoche]

To be clear, this is a list of ALL sources named by Tom Palven in this thread. I'm not omitting substantive citations to make it look worse.

This is the evidence that is supposed to convince critical thinkers that the most spectacular CT of all time, requiring the participation of millions of people worldwide, is real.

Originally Posted by varwoche

List of Tom's whimsical data sources. New entries in blue.

• George Carlin bit
• Conan O'Brian bit where he mocks local news for saying something silly about the Easter Bunny
• Bartender in South Dakota
• Unabashed holocaust denier
  
• A book about true believers written in 1951
• A fact check report that doesn't exist
  

By all means, keep 'em coming! You're welcome.

Let me know if I missed anything.

[bruto]

I think if after all the responses and explanations, that if one can consider the decline in flu "coincidental," the battle for rational understanding is lost.

[JesseCuster]

Originally Posted by Caroline13

As for me I have good health <snip>

Apart from your chronic insomnia that you need to take a cocktail of 5 different medications for, your arthritis, your hypothyroidism, your hip problems...

[Foster Zygote]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

Nothing. It's just BS.

Surely he should have been awarded a More of the Same, if not a Piled Higher and Deeper by now, considering his efforts in advancing the theory that the entire world's medical science community is complicit in passing off the common sniffles as a dangerous pandemic for fun and profit.

[Foster Zygote]

Originally Posted by bruto

I think if after all the responses and explanations, that if one can consider the decline in flu "coincidental," the battle for rational understanding is lost.

This must be how Father Ted felt.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

[Captain_Swoop]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

I don't read that "it is just about America" (you meaning the USA) in the post you were replying to. Fancy that it might be "just about capitalism" and the Great Reset of its financial system. Try to think very hard, Kapitän.

He constantly refers to the election and Dr Fauci.
He seems to think it's an American thing.
He ignores the rest of the world.

[Carrot Flower King]

Originally Posted by Caroline13

NOT SO.

Get your friggin Immune Systems strong and you don't need to worry aboout this and that mutation. Then what would you talk about, a good immune system, lord no.

Could you please explain auto-immune diseases, then?

In your own time...

Or health issues which are nothing to do with the immune system, like cardiomyopathy to pick one purely at random?

Or depression, to pick another purely at random?

PS The use of the term "purely at random" may possibly contain some small quantity of irony. I can't help myself, I'm British.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by Caroline13

NOT SO.

Get your friggin Immune Systems strong and you don't need to worry aboout this and that mutation. Then what would you talk about, a good immune system, lord no.

Nice bit of victim blaming.

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by JesseCuster

Apart from your chronic insomnia that you need to take a cocktail of 5 different medications for, your arthritis, your hypothyroidism, your hip problems...

Ever noticed that the medicine deniers always alternate between claiming to be incredibly healthy on their vitamins/special diets/magic water pills/faith healing/etc and complaining about their various ailments?

[zorro99]

Hey when’s this Trump inauguration gonna happen?

[zorro99]

Originally Posted by zorro99

Hey when’s this Trump inauguration gonna happen?

Ulp, sorry, wrong thread

[varwoche]

I get that fervent CTists tend to be impermeable. Oh well. But I wish they would show the courage of their convictions. Stop weaseling and own it:

There's a vast worldwide conspiracy...

In the context of US policy, obviously Fauci matters. But when CTists claim that covid is a hoax, Fauci is borderline irrelevant. Railing about Fauci in hoax context amounts to blatant arm waving.

[Tom Palven]

Originally Posted by Tom Palven

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Pope Anthony is VERY worried about mutations!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/othe...cid=uxbndlbing

A major difference between Tony Fauci and Alfred E. Neuman is that Tony Fauci is worried:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...mageBasicHover