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Old 29th December 2005, 09:23 AM   #161
Anders W. Bonde
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Hi Paul,

Welcome aboard!

(Here's a chance to add a post in order to reach the 'magic 15'):
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Old 29th December 2005, 09:35 AM   #162
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Yes, that's the way things work. Boards like this use software that can't distinguish between people. It would also be an awful lot of work for the moderators to screen people individually, considering how many people are members here. Well, at least this will be my ninth mail
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Old 29th December 2005, 09:40 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Anders W. Bonde View Post
Hi Paul,

Welcome aboard!

(Here's a chance to add a post in order to reach the 'magic 15'):
Hej Anders!

Rart at møde dig her. Jeg har lige afsluttet min sidste patientbehandling for 2005 og kan nu slappe lidt af her i Sorø.

****

Just a little greeting for another Dane her. I'm American, but live in Denmark with my Danish wife.

Now this will be my tenth post. Getting closer to the goal! Soon I'll be able to "use both hands"!
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Old 29th December 2005, 09:41 AM   #164
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..... and my 11th....
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Old 29th December 2005, 09:43 AM   #165
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.... and 12th....
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Old 29th December 2005, 09:44 AM   #166
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... and 13th....
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Old 29th December 2005, 09:45 AM   #167
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... and 14th....
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Old 29th December 2005, 09:47 AM   #168
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... and 15th.... Maybe now I can create my profile, choose an avatar, start using links, etc. Whew! Nice to be alive again.
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Old 29th December 2005, 09:47 AM   #169
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I'm not going to chime in with my opinions of the "woo", others have already done a splendid job.

i will say to FS, i wish you all the best in your treatment and recovery. you seem to have a handle on whats happening to you and you've got the smarts to make the right decisions.

as for the physiological "good feeling" that keeps you perky, i hope that the support from here helps.

if i ever get myself to a TAM, I'll see ya there.
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Old 29th December 2005, 09:51 AM   #170
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Hmm....still can't create much of a profile or choose an avatar. Maybe the system takes time to approve me?
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Old 29th December 2005, 09:55 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by fyslee View Post
For more about the acronym sCAM (ALWAYS spelled with a small "s"....;-), do this search:

"The Quack-Files" "scam commitment"
Here's what I've written on sCAM at SkepticWiki:
http://www.skepticwiki.org/wiki/index.php/SCAM

... and my user page there:
http://www.skepticwiki.org/wiki/index.php/User:Fyslee
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Old 29th December 2005, 10:33 AM   #172
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fyslee, if you want to boost your post count, this is the thread for you.
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Old 29th December 2005, 02:07 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by fowlsound View Post
Are you for real?

Do you want to gamble your life on the placebo effect? It is not 100%. It's more like 20% (or somewhere around there. med folks, help me out with that #?) There is no PLACEBO that cures CANCER.
Well, I wouldn't gamble on even 20% for a life-threatening condition. The much-hyped placebo effect is mainly observed in benign conditions, especially pain. Anything where expectation plays a part. FS, I found your OP deeply moving, but you are not going to move the minds of unreason, as exemplified repeatedly by the likes of `love'. You are doing all the right things, and you deserve to succeed.
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Old 29th December 2005, 02:09 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Asolepius View Post
Well, I wouldn't gamble on even 20% for a life-threatening condition. The much-hyped placebo effect is mainly observed in benign conditions, especially pain. Anything where expectation plays a part. FS, I found your OP deeply moving, but you are not going to move the minds of unreason, as exemplified repeatedly by the likes of `love'. You are doing all the right things, and you deserve to succeed.


I agree 100% with everything you said.

Actually, I was hoping the paper wouldn't necessarily convert or change them, just get them to leave me the hell alone.
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Old 29th December 2005, 02:20 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Splossy View Post
I didn't say I would I said I might. Hard to say what I might do if I had a potentially terminal illness. I can’t confidently state that I wouldn’t.

The imaginative exercises might work in some sense – nobody can really say that developing a positive attitude etc cannot have any effect on one’s immune system or merely one’s ability to cope or something else not thought of just yet. Re: Homeopathy – this is probably the least likely thing I’d dtry but might be worth trying re: the placebo effect. It does appear to be quite a good placebo.

Given that terminal illness is your last shot I cannot rule out the possibility that I'd take the view that anything is worth trying as long as it doesn’t do any harm.
No no no no NO!!!!!! Sorry, but sometimes I have to shout. Positive mental attitude has been tested and does not work in cancer. It may make people fell better about it, but they don't live any longer. Look at the guidance from NICE on palliative care.

And NO again - nobody is going to to do better than by focussing totally on what will do them some good. Any distraction does harm.
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Old 30th December 2005, 01:18 PM   #176
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Placebo effect. Tell someone they are gonna die. They believe you. So they get soooo scared that they curl up in a ball, and stop eating and drinking. They await their doom.

What do they die of? Fear? No. Dehydration at their own hand.

Quite often placebo effects work because people believe the placebo is doing something. They unwittingly relax and stop focussing on the perceived problem (the reduced stress leads to pain relief or whatever). Or they stop worrying about it and the temporary problem clears up (swelling in joints due to temporary allergic reaction disappears).

Placebo effect can be good and bad as well (as written above).

Why won't it work on cancer? Or a broken leg? Or any real problem? Because it takes more than distraction or belief to fix it. A real physical prolonged problem needs real intervention.
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Old 30th December 2005, 03:22 PM   #177
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Fowlsound, I admire you for your strength, courage, and kick-ass attitude.

You know that everyone here is in your corner pulling for you.

I can't make it to TAM this year, but I expect to see you there next year, and the first round is on me.

Cheers.
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Old 30th December 2005, 05:33 PM   #178
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Damn.

Fowlsound for the next messiah!

I don't know what to say, I am deeply moved by your bravery, your willingness to share and your patience in putting up with Love. I don't know how you've been able to answer her.
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Old 30th December 2005, 06:41 PM   #179
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Mod WarningThreads 179 to 191 have been moved to Abandon All Hope as it was deemed to be moving into a flamewar again. Please continue the derail in the appropriate thread here and any future similar posts. Please note, the ignore feature is available.
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Old 30th December 2005, 06:55 PM   #180
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You lost a post of mine in the process
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Old 1st January 2006, 10:34 PM   #181
Simon Bridge
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Family members had cancer over the last few years.

each did the chemo/radio thing, and each beat it. In one case the detection was very late and surgury was required. (Now, in NZ surgury for removing cancer is on the public purse: no cost. Same with the reconstruction later.)

However - one just did the old "I trust science" bit - recovery went very well and there were almost no side effects from the chemo.

The other didn't quite trust the doctors. Did the standard treatment anyway, but also did a number of self-nurchuring things too - took a homeopathic thing (I checked that it didn't actually do damage) and went to regular prayer meetings. This helped her to cope with the attitude. Her recovery was tougher, and she may have given up if deprived of the props.

However - when I went to replenish the homeopathy stuff, I replaced it with fennel and sugar. It was cheaper, and had the same effect. (i.e. none - beyond the feeling of doing something oneself.)

This sort of thing was encouraged - on the understanding that it did not interfere with the hospital treatment.

Our attitude to our illness (a phrase that can still ern you a violent episode because of it's misuse) is important to our recovery. However, it won't make you better. It won't fix something broke.

Not all placebos are created equal - if each is as good as another, and they make you feel better, then pick the cheap one.

Oh - hoping an illness will just go away (imagining etc) will not work, but the illness can still go away all by itself. It is in the nature of diseases that they will sometimes just burn out, sometimes go into remission.

Another misleading effect is that doctors are usually pessimistic in their prognosis where potentially fatal diseases are concerned. If they say you'll have 6 months to live and you hang on for 12, that's good. If they say you'll live 12 months but you only made 11.5, that may be grounds for a lawsuit...

In general, it is true if it stays true even when you stop believing in it.
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Old 1st January 2006, 10:35 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Dogdoctor View Post
You lost a post of mine in the process
I am PMing you in regards to this, see what we can do. As the sequence stands in 'Abandon', it appears that there is no lost post?

Edited to add - no lost post confirmed.

Please, if any moves in future result in lost posts or suspected lost posts for anyone at all, please indicate in the Forum management area? That way we can address it quicker, as I didn't see this for some time. Thanks.
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Old 2nd January 2006, 02:20 PM   #183
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Kiless,
Thank you very much for pointing out that my post was not where I thought it was. I sooo apologize for making you do unneeded work. I am still slapping myself upside the head for doing that.
Thanks for all your efforts






not really but everyone else blames her
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Old 2nd January 2006, 09:15 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Dogdoctor View Post
Kiless,
Thank you very much for pointing out that my post was not where I thought it was.
Eh, don't be daft. It's okay. I can't even remember researching American football last night....
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Old 2nd January 2006, 09:17 PM   #185
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Is it available on another site yet?
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Old 6th January 2006, 10:35 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by fowlsound View Post
After I wrote this, I found out the cancer has spread to my arm. I will be talking with an oncologist on 3 January, 2006. We'll discuss treatment options then. In the meantime, it seems I have an excuse to miss TAM.
Kick its a$$, man. (the cancer, not the oncologist.)
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Old 6th January 2006, 11:02 AM   #187
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Well, yes, but be careful. Unlike what the woos claim, it's not possible to "defeat" a cancer just by wanting to or by having a positive attitude. What you mean is of course "take every rational treatment offered to you by the specialists in charge of your case", but be careful of sounding as if this is a "self-empowerment" plan.

Rolfe.
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Old 7th January 2006, 06:04 PM   #188
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Sorry I haven't been around, fowlsound. Hopefully, you won't be needing your titanium superpowers. I'll be digging my fingers into my temples, trying to access any latent psychic powers I might happen to have.

But until they show up, stick with your doctors' and nurses' sexy, wrinkly brains, because I'm just trying to be humorously insane. Keep your spirits up... that is, if the doc'll let you have alcohol.
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Old 9th January 2006, 08:45 PM   #189
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I chucked your excellent paper up on my webpage too. It has low bandwidth, so don't go telling millions of people, but if someone comes across it, they may just start to think.
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Old 9th January 2006, 08:47 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by SquishyDave View Post
I chucked your excellent paper up on my webpage too. It has low bandwidth, so don't go telling millions of people, but if someone comes across it, they may just start to think.


Hey thanks Dave!

I also have a blog about my experiences. I'm working to put up all I can about my journey through cancer.

www.fowlsound.com/blog

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Old 12th January 2006, 08:49 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Iamme View Post
But for one to sort thru what is quackery and what isn't, is the $64,000 question....


or eat weiners with nirtrates/nitrites in them
Sorry for coming late to the party, but this is one of my peeves. Yes, nitrates/nitrites are added to cured meats, so they get listed on the package. But what about all the foods that include nitrates/nitrites naturally so they don't have them listed on the labels (most don't even have labels). Yes, I am talking about vegetables... Estimates are that 80-90% of nitrate/nitrite intake comes vegetables and that most vegetarians have a nitrate/nitrite intake 3 to 4 times that of non-vegetarians...

Quote:
Maybe Googling Mexican homeopathic clinics will yield some good reading.
Try googling nitrates vegetarians...
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Old 12th January 2006, 01:34 PM   #192
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Hey FS, I downloaded your paper and, you will be surprised to hear, I even read it. Spelling problems aside it is a good read. Even, I think, useful. You can guess, I am certain, what my reaction was.

It did occur to me that placebo might be useful if you where to take about 5 pounds of them, put them in a sock, and swing the sock with abandon. Might clear out the room if nothing else.

You da chicken, dude!
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Old 20th January 2006, 06:16 AM   #193
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FS - you have a rival who presumably would regard your titanium superpowers as some form of inferior energy source - Dr Quantum!
(and all for only $69.95!)
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Old 20th January 2006, 12:30 PM   #194
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Quote:
The "New Alchemy:" the nine steps for transforming your thoughts into matter


Wow! Become a Q for only $69.95!

Where's my credit card?
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Old 20th January 2006, 01:48 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Deetee View Post
FS - you have a rival who presumably would regard your titanium superpowers as some form of inferior energy source - Dr Quantum!
(and all for only $69.95!)


Oh boy.

Perhaps I could introduce that guy to the quantum mechanics of my spine of woo doom.
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Old 22nd January 2006, 02:15 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by meg View Post
Hi fowlsound,

I'm pretty new here and just now got around to reading this thread and your paper.

Just wanted to say that fowlsound, I think YOU f***ing rock.

I'm rootin for ya.

Meg
Puleeze! Yu'll just encourage him!
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Old 22nd January 2006, 03:35 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by meg View Post
Hi fowlsound,

I'm pretty new here and just now got around to reading this thread and your paper.

Just wanted to say that fowlsound, I think YOU f***ing rock.

I'm rootin for ya.

Meg
Originally Posted by Metullus View Post
Puleeze! Yu'll just encourage him!
I hope she does. Because he does.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 03:20 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by meg View Post
Hi fowlsound,

I'm pretty new here and just now got around to reading this thread and your paper.

Just wanted to say that fowlsound, I think YOU f***ing rock.

I'm rootin for ya.

Meg

Awww shucks...
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Old 6th February 2006, 05:10 AM   #199
Mashuna
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I'd just like to add my best wishes to those already given by others on the form, Fowlsound. Your account shows bravery and courage, and I applaud you for remaining firm in your acceptance of the scientific method. I am reminded of the John Diamond books, detailing his experiences of cancer, and the similar attitude he took to those offering the 'why wouldn't you try this, what have you got to lose?' attitude.
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Old 6th February 2006, 07:47 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Mashuna View Post
I'd just like to add my best wishes to those already given by others on the form, Fowlsound. Your account shows bravery and courage, and I applaud you for remaining firm in your acceptance of the scientific method. I am reminded of the John Diamond books, detailing his experiences of cancer, and the similar attitude he took to those offering the 'why wouldn't you try this, what have you got to lose?' attitude.


Thank you very much. I am always humbly thankful for best wishes
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