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Old 6th March 2006, 09:17 PM   #321
Kelly
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Originally Posted by fowlsound View Post
We're nowhere near as cute as pussycats. I do, however, enjoy a ball of yarn occasionally...

I can empathise with the feeling that it may be contagious. I have a post in my blog about ridiculous reactions to cancer that is similar.

I am surprised though, that the Catholic forum did not offer a big response. I can't imagine that they wouldn't see this as the opportunity this forum has to do something to make a difference for the better.

Oh well.

Where's my yarn?
Interesting about the reactions to cancer as well.

I figured I would at least get a bunch of "so sorry's" on the forum.
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Old 6th March 2006, 09:19 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
Interesting about the reactions to cancer as well.

I figured I would at least get a bunch of "so sorry's" on the forum.


I think any subject that plays into very basic fears we have will garner the same type of aversion from those not directly exposed to it, generally.





ETA:

By the way, blue is blue.

Signed,

Captain Obvious.



(yeesh. That's what I get for waxing philisophical on an hour of sleep for the past 3 days.)
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Old 6th March 2006, 09:32 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by Ashles View Post
Just about anything involving Dennis Mackenzie.

A nasty piece of work who everyone should be warned about.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...nnis+mackenzie

Another old thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...nnis+mackenzie

I wish psychics could help police. Oh how I wish that.

I just no longer understand how anyone can believe they do.
I never heard of MacKenzie, but perhaps because he is from the UK.

As I go back through this thread, I take another look and see if it can blend in with the story. There were some more excellent links on the second thread about LE and psychics. Now if I only knew a retired cop who can write!

Regardless, this aspect of things will make for a well-rounded series.
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Old 6th March 2006, 09:40 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by Luke T. View Post
Kelly, if you can ask someone who has been solicited by a psychic to find their missing loved one to recollect as accurately as possible what was said/claimed by the psychic in the conversation, I will be happy to write a Self-Defense Course on how to handle such calls. The more input you can collect from various people, the better. That way we can get an idea of the typical sales pitch.

I imagine the psychics claim to have worked with the police and to have "helped" find missing children/loved ones, and so on.

I would write such an article along these lines:

If a psychic calls you to offer their services, here are the following steps you should take...

1. Hang up.



Of course, I would go into more than that. I would arm them with questions to ask the psychic. Name the children you found. Name the police you helped. Dates, places, etc. Were you credited in any media reports? Which ones? Dates. Do you have ANY references at all, you freaking creep?

You get the idea.
Yep, I get the idea.

To backtrack, the original idea for the dialog was for a dialog as the "reading" is taking place. This dialog would clearly show the reader when the psychic is using certain methods, such as shotgunning and intimidation to make the victim find a fit, etc, etc.

What you suggest is also excellent. So far, I don't really have much of the pre-event info. One man told me that he's had the guilt trip business in which they state things like: "I won't be able to sleep until I talk to you." I seem to recall having this happen to me on at least one occasion.

I've also had them insinuate that I must not care about finding Jason, otherwise I would jump at the offer. This again was coupled with the "just one conversation" plea. I wish I had more on that one.
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Old 6th March 2006, 09:42 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
I've also had them insinuate that I must not care about finding Jason, otherwise I would jump at the offer. This again was coupled with the "just one conversation" plea. I wish I had more on that one.




Had I been in your shoes I would have been hard pressed not to unleash a can of verbal whoop-ass.

But then I am not shy about letting loose verbally about things.






I know. I know. Shocking, isn't it?



Seriouosly, is there a way to poll families on this? Perhaps some phone legwork can be done? I'm willing to call and email and gather info on this if needed.
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Old 6th March 2006, 09:47 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
You guys will really get a kick out of this, but I had posted the same post#1 on a major Catholic forum, and only had a few responses! Sometimes people just don't know what to say, I guess.
I suspect you got very little response from people on the catholic message board because there are a large proportion of people there who believe in psychics. I married into a catholic family, and my experience is that they are all very credulous. My mother-in-law goes a psychic regularly. My wife, a professional businesswoman has even gone to one, and been astounded by the accuracy of what she heard. Of course, this was the same psychic that her mother and other family members had been to. Can you say hot reading?
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Old 6th March 2006, 09:55 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by Luke T. View Post
Here's the really sick part, Kelly, which I am sure you know: Psychics count on the missing person and person who took them never being found. The odds are in their favor. They can make all kinds of wild claims about activities that occurred surrounding the disappearance with the knowledge that the odds are in their favor. And even if the missing person is found, or the kidnapper caught, no one will remember how far off the psychic was except the immediate family and they aren't going to have the resources to make that knowledge public.

That's what makes the Elizabeth Smart Psi-Tch case so great. She was found alive and none of the events Psi-Tech remotely viewed were remotely correct. It was a spectacular and public failure. And boy did they scurry to cover it up! To no avail.

So use it. Like a hammer.
OH, boy, did I get a good one in today. It is about a missing/then found murdered young mother. She was found a couple of months after she was missing. Since it was not such a long time ago, the friend was able to recall quite a few of the stories. I think this one is going to rock the house. I already know the story and it brought a tear to my eye. It fits right into what you are saying in your 1st paragraph.

I read the Psi-Tech report a long time ago. I'm glad it was brought up again here, because, yes, it is a good example.
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Old 6th March 2006, 09:58 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by fowlsound View Post



Had I been in your shoes I would have been hard pressed not to unleash a can of verbal whoop-ass.

But then I am not shy about letting loose verbally about things.


I know. I know. Shocking, isn't it?

Seriouosly, is there a way to poll families on this? Perhaps some phone legwork can be done? I'm willing to call and email and gather info on this if needed.
I can send out an email poll, yes.

You know, if it wasn't for my position as the leader of an org, I would let loose on them. I have to remain calm and respectful at all times.

In one of my stories though, I do let lose and use the F-bomb. I had to. It was awful.
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Old 6th March 2006, 10:02 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Gr8wight View Post
I suspect you got very little response from people on the catholic message board because there are a large proportion of people there who believe in psychics. I married into a catholic family, and my experience is that they are all very credulous. My mother-in-law goes a psychic regularly. My wife, a professional businesswoman has even gone to one, and been astounded by the accuracy of what she heard. Of course, this was the same psychic that her mother and other family members had been to. Can you say hot reading?
*hands to temples* I'm getting something... you're a married male from Ontario... you have a child whose name starts with... with an "M"... you enjoy two things that begin with the letter "B"... you drink one while you listen to the other...

Hot reading is fun!
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Old 6th March 2006, 10:03 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by Gr8wight View Post
I suspect you got very little response from people on the catholic message board because there are a large proportion of people there who believe in psychics. I married into a catholic family, and my experience is that they are all very credulous. My mother-in-law goes a psychic regularly. My wife, a professional businesswoman has even gone to one, and been astounded by the accuracy of what she heard. Of course, this was the same psychic that her mother and other family members had been to. Can you say hot reading?
I didn't even recognize you without the hat! I even said to myself: "Oh, a new person." Thanks for the nice write-up. I did see several hits coming from there today. My site meter is open, so you can view it if you're curious.

Yes, in my family, several believe, although no one visits them. The one I mention in post #1 cannot be swayed.
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Old 6th March 2006, 10:08 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by Luke T. View Post
Okay, Kelly. I have just written a two page article on the Kimberly Forbes missing person case and the psychic hired by the TV station.

I titled it "But The News Said Psychics Are Real!"

Just tell me where to email it if you want it.

You can do whatever you want with it. All rights, etc., etc., are yours.

All I ask is that if you credit it to me, that the byline say "Luke T." I don't use my whole name in public venues for personal security reasons.
I Pm'd you with my email. This will be a great addition. Slap the media in the face about this. They need a wake-up call, too.

And, yes, everyone should follow your lead and write and complain when the media gives psychics credibility.

Thank you!
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Old 6th March 2006, 10:09 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by delphi_ote View Post
*hands to temples* I'm getting something... you're a married male from Ontario... you have a child whose name starts with... with an "M"... you enjoy two things that begin with the letter "B"... you drink one while you listen to the other...

Oh. My. God!!!!eleventyone

How did you know all that. It's almost like you could go somewhere and read about me. Freaky, man.
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Old 6th March 2006, 10:14 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Gr8wight View Post
Oh. My. God!!!!eleventyone

How did you know all that. It's almost like you could go somewhere and read about me. Freaky, man.
I call that place "The Aurora Walking Spirit Vacation Realm." Think I could get my own TV show like John Edwards?
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Old 6th March 2006, 10:15 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
I found a piece by Tony Youens about him and have put in a link.
Interesting, as is the part about BTK. The sketches are obviously way off.

Edited to add: I think I am done catching up. If I forgot something you asked or needed a response on, please remind me. Thanks.
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Old 7th March 2006, 04:28 AM   #335
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There was an absolutely disgraceful TV series on Australian television not so long ago.

They had 'psychics' doing a 'cold case' on an unsolved murder of a young girl. The family, distraught at the memories of the place they lived in, moved interstate.

One of the psychics (none of whom actually provided any 'evidence' beyond what was already well known in the public domain, btw), had the gall to say that they could sense the dead girls spirit, and she was sad because she was now all alone since they had moved away. I could not believe they actually screened that.
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Old 7th March 2006, 06:17 AM   #336
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[quote=KellyJ;1489849]You know, if it wasn't for my position as the leader of an org, I would let loose on them. I have to remain calm and respectful at all times.
QUOTE]

You need to have someone like Kramer to hand.

oh - pick me! pick me!!
(actually, Luke T or FowlSound always manage to word things better than I do - pick them )
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Old 7th March 2006, 07:17 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
There was an absolutely disgraceful TV series on Australian television not so long ago.

They had 'psychics' doing a 'cold case' on an unsolved murder of a young girl. The family, distraught at the memories of the place they lived in, moved interstate.

One of the psychics (none of whom actually provided any 'evidence' beyond what was already well known in the public domain, btw), had the gall to say that they could sense the dead girls spirit, and she was sad because she was now all alone since they had moved away. I could not believe they actually screened that.
That's awful. Shame on that show. It's a rating racket, alright.

Someone else prompted about Daniel Morcombe's story. I'm going to try to remember ot email their family tonight and see if they want to say anything. I know they've had some leeches, too.
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Old 7th March 2006, 07:20 AM   #338
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[quote=chillzero;1490205]
Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
You know, if it wasn't for my position as the leader of an org, I would let loose on them. I have to remain calm and respectful at all times.
QUOTE]

You need to have someone like Kramer to hand.

oh - pick me! pick me!!
(actually, Luke T or FowlSound always manage to word things better than I do - pick them )
Hi Poster Formerly Known as Cabby!

That is a good idea to have a psychic isssue spokesperson. I might want to be able to forward emails to them if people ignore my request not to email me about these issues.
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Old 7th March 2006, 07:24 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
OH, boy, did I get a good one in today. It is about a missing/then found murdered young mother. She was found a couple of months after she was missing. Since it was not such a long time ago, the friend was able to recall quite a few of the stories. I think this one is going to rock the house. I already know the story and it brought a tear to my eye. It fits right into what you are saying in your 1st paragraph.
Outstanding! Can't wait to see it.
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Old 7th March 2006, 07:34 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
I Pm'd you with my email. This will be a great addition. Slap the media in the face about this. They need a wake-up call, too.
Done. Just shipped it to your email address.

Quote:
And, yes, everyone should follow your lead and write and complain when the media gives psychics credibility.
Yes. Email reporters and help them understand this is not harmless entertainment.

A factual report may trigger a memory in a witness in the viewing audience and help break the case.

A psychic making up events surrounding a case which did not actually occur may actually PREVENT a potential witness viewer from recalling an important clue.
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Old 7th March 2006, 08:06 AM   #341
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Kelly,
I e-mailed the organizer of a blog carnival called The Skeptics' Circle, and I believe your series will get a mention (and a link) in the next edition, which will be published March 16th at Paige's Page.

Two things:

1) Yes this is somewhat preaching to the choir, in that most of the readers will already be skeptics, but a wider audience in general can only be good for Project Jason (IMHO).

2) As most of the readers will already be skeptics, it may subject your religious beliefs to some comment. I hope that is kept to a minimum, and that the skeptical community at large can live up to the level of respect you have received here.
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Old 7th March 2006, 08:41 AM   #342
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Check out this new blog comment:

"What about the series on court tv called "Psychic Detectives"? Is that all a farce? Some of cases show how the psychics led the detectives to solve the crime. Just a thought after reading your post. I too am a new reader and don't know what NCMEC stands for. I saw your post at the court tv message board. I will follow the blog with interest and hope others will too. I hope it can save someone else some of the heartache you have endured."

Hey, if it's on TV, it's real, right?

Is there an article specifically about that show? (debunking)

I did, BTW, edit NCMEC and wrote it out.
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Old 7th March 2006, 09:06 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by Gr8wight View Post
Kelly,
I e-mailed the organizer of a blog carnival called The Skeptics' Circle, and I believe your series will get a mention (and a link) in the next edition, which will be published March 16th at Paige's Page.

Two things:

1) Yes this is somewhat preaching to the choir, in that most of the readers will already be skeptics, but a wider audience in general can only be good for Project Jason (IMHO).

2) As most of the readers will already be skeptics, it may subject your religious beliefs to some comment. I hope that is kept to a minimum, and that the skeptical community at large can live up to the level of respect you have received here.
On 1) Yes, I agree. People need to be educated on these issues. They need to know what to do and where to go. We service all walks of life, all faiths and beliefs. (I don't mention religion to our families unless they bring it up first.) I'll bet most of you had no idea about the plight of the missing before I came. Truly, time is such and enemy when you have a missing person, and if you know who to call, it can make a difference.

2) If they should give me grief, I will read with one eye closed! What's important is to get the info out there.

These are excellent, excellent ideas. Thank you for the action.
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Old 7th March 2006, 09:07 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
Check out this new blog comment:

"What about the series on court tv called "Psychic Detectives"? Is that all a farce? Some of cases show how the psychics led the detectives to solve the crime. Just a thought after reading your post. I too am a new reader and don't know what NCMEC stands for. I saw your post at the court tv message board. I will follow the blog with interest and hope others will too. I hope it can save someone else some of the heartache you have endured."

Hey, if it's on TV, it's real, right?

Is there an article specifically about that show? (debunking)

I did, BTW, edit NCMEC and wrote it out.
The frustrating thing about TV Shows like "Psychic Detectives" is that the presenter is so obviously biased toward believing in psychic phenomena. And there is no way to know what information they have deliberately withheld, or chosen not to pursue, that might cast doubt on the psychics.

Usually.

Fortunately, some members of this forum were able to find a deliberate case of biased reporting and withholding of vital information in one psychic detective showcase.

Read this topic to learn about it.
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Old 7th March 2006, 09:22 AM   #345
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Good morning.

I actually like to watch the show Psychic Detectives. It is a shame that it is on Court TV since it totally mocks the hard work and real investigative skills that law enforcement do use. Sci Fi or Comedy Channel might be a better choice. If you watch the shows carefully and don't get sidetracked by the trippy sound effects and dizzing camera effects, like when they go spinning around the alleged psychic, you will notice that inspite of the biased and unfair editing, the psychic doesn't actually solve the case. Lot's of after the fact declarations though.
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Old 7th March 2006, 09:59 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
Interesting about the reactions to cancer as well.

I figured I would at least get a bunch of "so sorry's" on the forum.
It doesn't say anything good or bad about the Catholic forum that they were unable to help. They just don't have the skill set that is needed.

And as RSLancaster has shown with his efforts to stop Kaz, even people of faith appreciate efforts to expose frauds.

"Progress, not perfection".
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Old 7th March 2006, 10:08 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by Luke T. View Post
Fortunately, some members of this forum were able to find a deliberate case of biased reporting and withholding of vital information in one psychic detective showcase.

Read this topic to learn about it.
I posted that link on the comments section for that person. I see our thaiboxerken has been there as well.
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Old 7th March 2006, 10:13 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
I posted that link on the comments section for that person. I see our thaiboxerken has been there as well.
Thaiboxerken is our man on the scene at Court TV.

Nobody has a better handle on that situation than he does.
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Old 7th March 2006, 10:16 AM   #349
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Good morning to you JPK.

I posted on that specific Catholic forum because it is fairly good size and because in my keyword search for "psychic", I found there were a few psychics posting there who had come clean. I thought some "conversion" stories would be a good thing to add in. I was still also hoping to find the psychologist person to shed light on the guilt angle.

I knew this was the best place for the debunking apsect of things.
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Old 7th March 2006, 10:20 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by Luke T. View Post
Thaiboxerken is our man on the scene at Court TV.

Nobody has a better handle on that situation than he does.
I believe he said they banned him. I posted my link on the thread he frequented and they just dismissed me without a second thought and continued on with their chit-chat.
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Old 7th March 2006, 12:24 PM   #351
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Someone posted on one of my outside threads about a psychic named Nancy Myer. I thought someone had posted about her on this subforum, but a search proved fruitless. Does anyone have a quick link to her shenanigans?

Thanks,
Kelly
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Old 7th March 2006, 12:49 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
Both good links.

I really liked the second one as it is LE (Law Enforcement) related. This is the first I have seen of this type of article. I think it also plays a part in adding credibilty to the voices of reason. The last line of the article said it all.

Thanks, Dr. A.
Well, thank you. If it wasn't for people such as yourself, with first hand experience, telling people the score, then there'd be no data except a lot of silly news stories and skeptics would have nothing to answer them with.

Also, it's nice to feel useful ... it's not often that people think "What I need is a bunch of skeptics". Which is a shame considering how often that's exactly what they need.

As far as your Catholic forum goes, as Luke says, they don't have the skill set ... or the experience. To put together the SkepticWiki article, all I had to do was look in the threads where we'd already given psychic detectives a good drubbing, and follow the links.

For some excellent Catholic skepticism, try the Father Brown stories by G K Chesterton.
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Old 7th March 2006, 12:52 PM   #353
Luke T.
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Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
Someone posted on one of my outside threads about a psychic named Nancy Myer. I thought someone had posted about her on this subforum, but a search proved fruitless. Does anyone have a quick link to her shenanigans?

Thanks,
Kelly
The article I emailed you is about Nancy Myer.
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Old 7th March 2006, 01:01 PM   #354
Dr Adequate
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That's lucky ...

That reminds me. Let me know whre the article appears so that SW can link to it.

I do give one example of a psychic manipulating the media ... that quote from KlaasKids.

Unbelievable. Apparently you can just walk into a TV station and say "Hello, I have magical crime-fighting abilities", and instead of the journalists checking your story, which is their job, they reply: "Please let us give you five minutes of free advertising disguised as news".

If they need to pad their program out with novelty acts, they should get a juggler.
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Old 7th March 2006, 01:15 PM   #355
Kelly
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Originally Posted by Luke T. View Post
The article I emailed you is about Nancy Myer.
Oh my! I have to laugh at myself. I was thinking that I knew I just read something about her, but thought it was on the forum or in a link someone provided. You must think me a ditz!

The truth be known....I need a bit more sleep tonight.

Data Overload!
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Old 7th March 2006, 01:26 PM   #356
Kelly
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Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
That's lucky ...

That reminds me. Let me know whre the article appears so that SW can link to it.

I do give one example of a psychic manipulating the media ... that quote from KlaasKids.

Unbelievable. Apparently you can just walk into a TV station and say "Hello, I have magical crime-fighting abilities", and instead of the journalists checking your story, which is their job, they reply: "Please let us give you five minutes of free advertising disguised as news".

If they need to pad their program out with novelty acts, they should get a juggler.
We'll let you know the link, you bet.

Little by little, we're building a good base of information about our topic.

I'm good buds with Marc Klaas' right hand man. He is going to get me something from Marc...not sure how much as he is so busy.

You hit the nail on the head. (bolded info)

We have some excellent teamwork going here, Dr. A. I also like the way the new discussions on this subforum are going: heavy hitting, but fair debating.

Other than Marc Klaas firm stand, and NCMEC's statement, I do not know of any missing person org who has tackled this issue in such an upfront way. I definetely don't know of any who are presenting real stories.

This is groundbreaking, don't you think? (Or am I just a dreamer?)
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Old 7th March 2006, 01:41 PM   #357
Luke T.
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Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
Oh my! I have to laugh at myself. I was thinking that I knew I just read something about her, but thought it was on the forum or in a link someone provided. You must think me a ditz!

The truth be known....I need a bit more sleep tonight.

Data Overload!
I don't think you a ditz at all. In fact, between all the links here that people have been posting, and the links and information and article I have sent you by email, all of which you have read, I have been astonished at your level of absorption.

Data overload, for sure. And entirely understandable.
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Old 7th March 2006, 01:46 PM   #358
CFLarsen
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Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
You must think me a ditz!
Oh, no.

(scurries away)
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Old 7th March 2006, 02:01 PM   #359
Kelly
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Originally Posted by CFLarsen View Post
Oh, no.

(scurries away)
You'd better run fast, Claus!!
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Old 7th March 2006, 02:03 PM   #360
Ducky
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Originally Posted by KellyJ View Post
You'd better run fast, Claus!!


I have met Claus, and I can attest he scurries faster than the average person.


Especially when arranging a dinner with too many people...
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