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Tags michael jackson , sex scandals

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Old 29th June 2016, 07:39 PM   #321
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I think some people are still making a mistake confusing likelihood and bad feeling with conviction and punishment. What does it mean that most people would not have let their kids stay the night with Michael Jackson? A lot and a little both. I would not have because I would have considered it a bad risk. But does that mean I think he should have been prosecuted without good proof? No. We act for ourselves as we think prudent. We act on others as we think proper. There's a difference.
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Old 29th June 2016, 08:26 PM   #322
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When the alarm was first mentioned, I just thought of it as a toy. Of course, I should've realized it would just be one part of a very serious security system.


Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
If I was worried about that I would have a blaring alarm that would wake everyone in the house, esp. security, who would come running to save me. Or, if I had enough money, I would just pay a bodyguard to stand guard outside the bedroom door. I wouldn't install some doorbell chime you can barely hear. ESP. if I'm taking something like propofol before I go to sleep.

If you're paranoid about being attacked, and you take heavy sedatives to sleep, wouldn't you want your alarm to sound like the world was coming to an end? Wouldn't you have guns nearby for self-defense? I don't buy the paranoia explanation.

(snip)
But it's never about what you or I would do. It's about what the people involved in the situation would do. THEY clearly see an alarm as being a thing they needed or wanted, and their reasons do not need to align with anyone else's reasons.
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Old 30th June 2016, 12:03 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
If he was drugged out he may not have cared. And also if he knew it was the other boy he may have gotten off on him watching. It annoys men when people make illogical arguments that supposedly proves something that it doesn't.
Me too

Quote:
Also, why does a person need an alarm bell to "let them know when someone s coming" when they are innocently sleeping in bed with a boy.
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Old 30th June 2016, 12:08 AM   #324
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The "Alarm" sounded like a door bell. I'd suggest that the most obvious reason for it was that since the bedroom was two stories, it is more than possible for people to enter the lower area without being heard, and most would not want to head upstairs while he was asleep, so the "alarm" was a way of letting him know when people had come to see him without their having to yell or come up the stairs to see if he was there.

People seem to be focused on "Why did have need an alarm when he had a boy sleeping in his bed" but the real question is, why have the alarm when he didn't? The answer is likely to be the same.
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Old 30th June 2016, 12:36 AM   #325
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Quote:
The "Alarm" sounded like a door bell. I'd suggest that the most obvious reason for it was that since the bedroom was two stories, it is more than possible for people to enter the lower area without being heard, and most would not want to head upstairs while he was asleep, so the "alarm" was a way of letting him know when people had come to see him without their having to yell or come up the stairs to see if he was there.
Yes; that's what it seems to be to me, too. Just a way of preventing people unexpectedly walking into his sleeping quarters, or yelling in an area where other people were often trying to sleep, too.

More speculation, but I'd also hazard there may have been a bit more to than meets the eye. It may have been rigged so his security team could alert him if there was something that caused them alarm, and he probably had some kind of protocol to follow if that happened.
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Old 30th June 2016, 03:28 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
No. The point is that like the OP, you're arguing from assertions and personal incredulity.

You want to diddle boys in private.... you dead bolt the front door, or put a chain lock on it. Ever stayed in a hotel? The staff can come through your keypad locked door at will. You have internal bolts or chains to prevent that. He had a chime. It went off when someone entered his bedroom suite, not when they were on the stairs. The staff and several associates had the keypad code. He just wanted to know when someone was coming and it could've been for multiple reasons, yet you've eliminated all but one of those reasons.
Because he liked to sleep with little boys and surrounded himself with them.

This is a skeptics board, is it not? We'll never know for sure what he did, but the evidence we do have is damning. I don't know if he ever molested anyone, but men who sleep with little boys and have kiddie-porn are probably pedophiles

One of the books found in Jackson’s possession was titled, Room to Play, which “contained numerous photographs of children.” According to the report, some of the images contained children’s faces superimposed on adult bodies with their private parts exposed.

Authorities also found numerous photos of children located inside a safe in the employee break room of Jackson’s home.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0a75709b7d847

If police raided your house, would they find that kind of stuff?
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Old 30th June 2016, 03:38 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by HenryLee View Post
Ransom was originally 50,000 then raised to 70,000. Not quite "millions" but it was 1932 so that was real money. Well, more real at least.
Indeed, the inflation calculator I used makes $70,000 in 1932 $1,227,483.21 in 2016. Of course, Jackson was richer than Lindy.
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Old 30th June 2016, 03:47 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Because he liked to sleep with little boys and surrounded himself with them.

This is a skeptics board, is it not? We'll never know for sure what he did, but the evidence we do have is damning. I don't know if he ever molested anyone, but men who sleep with little boys and have kiddie-porn are probably pedophiles

One of the books found in Jackson’s possession was titled, Room to Play, which “contained numerous photographs of children.” According to the report, some of the images contained children’s faces superimposed on adult bodies with their private parts exposed.

Authorities also found numerous photos of children located inside a safe in the employee break room of Jackson’s home.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0a75709b7d847

If police raided your house, would they find that kind of stuff?
It is? I never would have guessed by your post. Did you even bother looking up the book to see what it was, or did you just accept HuffPost's claims?

https://www.amazon.com/Room-Play-Sim.../dp/1931885214

http://metapsychology.mentalhelp.net...e=book&id=1811

Probably not my taste, especially at $750, but certainly not child porn or what the Huff claimed.
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:02 AM   #329
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Quote:
The collection was revealed in newly surfaced documents obtained by RadarOnline that detail a raid on Michael Jackson’s Neverland Ranch estate in 2003, carried out as part of an investigation into child molestation charges against the singer.
Fixed it for 'em. If this stuff was found then, and if it was illegal, why wasn't he prosecuted for it? If it was so damning, why wasn't he convicted?

Quote:
According to previously unseen reports from the Santa Barbara County Sheriff’s Department, authorities seized more than 80 video recordings and computer hard drives, as well as notes, diaries, documents, photographs and audiotapes.
Unseen by whom? Are they telling us the Sheriff's Department never looked at all this stuff?

Quote:
Former Santa Barbara Senior Assistant District Attorney Ron Zonen, who helped prosecute Jackson’s case, told RadarOnline that many of the materials found were may (or could) have been used to “desensitize” children.
Fixed another one. Jackson was acquitted.

Quote:
One of the books found in Jackson’s possession was titled, Room to Play, which “contained numerous photographs of children.” According to the report, some of the images contained children’s faces superimposed on adult bodies with their private parts exposed.
I *assume* that's this:

https://www.amazon.com/Room-Play-Sim...dp/1931885214/

I don't know what's in it, but I'm fairly certain if I can buy it on Amazon.com, it's probably not illegal.

I'm not certain what this means, but it seems to be saying there's nothing new:

Quote:
UPDATE (June 22): The Santa Barbara Sheriff’s Office released a statement to Billboard explaining that “The documents with a header titled Sheriff’s Department that contain a case number appear to be Sheriff’s Office documents.”

The majority of the 88-page report consists of documents with a Sheriff’s Department header and case number, however, the authenticity of the few photographs and images included alongside those documents is harder to assess. “The photos that are interspersed appear to be some evidentiary photos taken by Sheriff’s investigators and others are clearly obtained from the internet,” the Sheriff’s Office said.
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:20 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Because he liked to sleep with little boys and surrounded himself with them.

This is a skeptics board, is it not? We'll never know for sure what he did, but the evidence we do have is damning. I don't know if he ever molested anyone, but men who sleep with little boys and have kiddie-porn are probably pedophiles

One of the books found in Jackson’s possession was titled, Room to Play, which “contained numerous photographs of children.” According to the report, some of the images contained children’s faces superimposed on adult bodies with their private parts exposed.

Authorities also found numerous photos of children located inside a safe in the employee break room of Jackson’s home.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0a75709b7d847

If police raided your house, would they find that kind of stuff?
I wonder if this is a skeptics board or not sometimes, or if some of you have just wandered in with your biases.

Have you read the transcripts of the trial?

This is the same crap that Zonen and his boss started peddling from the beginning.... "this is classic paedo grooming technique". Yet not one iota of any of the evidence they bagged is viewed as child porn. Zonen is, obviously to me, the source of the RadarOnLine articles and the person who had all the files. The police reviewed the files and so did the DA. Why wasn't any of this information included in the trial? Simple... it is meaningless. It is all innuendo.

HuffPo cites RadarOnLine. Brilliant skeptical evidence-gathering.
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:32 AM   #331
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I couldn't get the link to the cited .pdf to open. Here's another one, which is working for me. The pages are out of order, and there's a lot of weird images (which appear to be ads) between so it's not very user friendly. But if anyone else wants to review it, here it is: https://web.archive.org/web/20160621...06/mj-docs.pdf
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:33 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
HuffPo cites RadarOnLine. Brilliant skeptical evidence-gathering.
My opinion of HuffPo has...diminished in recent years.
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:51 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
My opinion of HuffPo has...diminished in recent years.
Like the Enquirer, they may stumble on something from time to time in their rush to publish. This doesn't seem like one of those times.
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:52 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
The staff can come through your keypad locked door at will. You have internal bolts or chains to prevent that. He had a chime. It went off when someone entered his bedroom suite, not when they were on the stairs. The staff and several associates had the keypad code. He just wanted to know when someone was coming and it could've been for multiple reasons, yet you've eliminated all but one of those reasons.
Yeah, I assume this room was more akin to an apartment than a bedroom (IIRC someone earlier mentioned it had two stories?). If you are in a room like that and staff comes and goes, it wouldn't be easily apparent from everywhere in the room when someone enters. I wouldn't be surprised at a small chime on the door to alert him that someone else might be in the room so he doesn't do something like walk naked out of the bathroom, can stop what could be a confidential (business or personal) conversation on the phone, or something like that.

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Old 30th June 2016, 06:06 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
I couldn't get the link to the cited .pdf to open. Here's another one, which is working for me. The pages are out of order, and there's a lot of weird images (which appear to be ads) between so it's not very user friendly. But if anyone else wants to review it, here it is: https://web.archive.org/web/20160621...06/mj-docs.pdf
Well after reading that I'm convinced... I'm convinced that after their training, some people see grooming materials in anything from nude artwork to adult magazines. Thus it is clear that anyone that has in their possession any form of depicted naked people, and has contact with Children, then they need to be dealt with as if they have grooming materials for those children, cause according to the training, this is the case.
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Last edited by PhantomWolf; 30th June 2016 at 06:08 AM.
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Old 30th June 2016, 06:09 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I would not have because I would have considered it a bad risk. But does that mean I think he should have been prosecuted without good proof? No.
I'm inclined to agree, and I suspect most of us are in agreement. "There is no slam-dunk proof that Jackson was a child molester." Beyond that, I don't see a big conflict between "But I think he was / wasn't / no opinion."

I think Lizzie Borden was guilty. I don't think the evidence would hold up in court.

I have no opinion on whether Michael Jackson was a child molester. No evidence held up in court.
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Old 30th June 2016, 06:25 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Well after reading that I'm convinced... I'm convinced that after their training, some people see grooming materials in anything from nude artwork to adult magazines. Thus it is clear that anyone that has in their possession any form of depicted naked people, and has contact with Children, then they need to be dealt with as if they have grooming materials for those children, cause according to the training, this is the case.
Apparently, yes. I just slogged through all 88 pages, and I feel a bit sorry for the investigator who had to type up all the descriptions of that motley hoard.

Too bad MJ never met our Tragic Monkey. TM could've taught him how to have a trove worth looking through!
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Old 30th June 2016, 08:32 AM   #338
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Well, I've been a full on consumer of the blue milk over this for years.

Sorry Jacko.

(anyone remember when we had a press with journalistic integrity?)
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Old 30th June 2016, 08:39 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
It is? I never would have guessed by your post. Did you even bother looking up the book to see what it was, or did you just accept HuffPost's claims?

https://www.amazon.com/Room-Play-Sim.../dp/1931885214

http://metapsychology.mentalhelp.net...e=book&id=1811

Probably not my taste, especially at $750, but certainly not child porn or what the Huff claimed.
Certainly not?

"The effect of the image is certainly transgressive, and those who are uncomfortable with any sexualized depiction of children will probably have pejorative labels for this work."

Sounds like kiddie porn.
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Old 30th June 2016, 08:59 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I wonder if this is a skeptics board or not sometimes, or if some of you have just wandered in with your biases.

Have you read the transcripts of the trial?

This is the same crap that Zonen and his boss started peddling from the beginning.... "this is classic paedo grooming technique". Yet not one iota of any of the evidence they bagged is viewed as child porn. Zonen is, obviously to me, the source of the RadarOnLine articles and the person who had all the files. The police reviewed the files and so did the DA. Why wasn't any of this information included in the trial? Simple... it is meaningless. It is all innuendo.

HuffPo cites RadarOnLine. Brilliant skeptical evidence-gathering.
So does Telegraph, Vanity Fair, and Daily Beast. Maybe the report is ********, but from the documents and videos leaked, it looks legit.
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Old 30th June 2016, 09:08 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Certainly not?

"The effect of the image is certainly transgressive, and those who are uncomfortable with any sexualized depiction of children will probably have pejorative labels for this work."

Sounds like kiddie porn.
And yet, it wasn't.

Again, MJ had thousands of books. Why would anyone be judged by a handful of oddball stuff from a huge collection?

There was nothing in that list to determine what MJ thought of any of it.

Who knows when, how, or why he acquired it?
Who knows if he ever even looked through it?

This may comes as a shock: but artists study art. It's part of the creative process to fill the "creative tank" with thousands of images of all kinds of ideas and all kinds of techniques and styles. It's part and parcel of the package of being in any kind of entertainment or creative field.

MJ had a lot of materials related to men and male sexuality, but I would not want to jump to the conclusion he was homosexual or bisexual based on them. As a dancer, those thousands of images also fueled his artistic vocabulary, and that may have been his primary reason for collecting them. The human form -body types, poses, lighting and the emotional impact on a viewer would be extremely important to him.
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Old 30th June 2016, 10:12 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by John Nowak View Post
I see where you're coming from and I don't necessarily disagree, but on this site doesn't this chain of logic typically end with "and that is why I believe in Bigfoot?"
The reason that is not an effective analogy is that "Bigfoot" doesn't exist, whereas pedophiles - even wealthy and/or famous ones - do. One is an extraordinary claim where as the other is quite mundane.
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Old 30th June 2016, 10:31 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Well, I've been a full on consumer of the blue milk over this for years.

Sorry Jacko.

(anyone remember when we had a press with journalistic integrity?)
Yes, and I apologize to my children for the ongoing Slow Death Of Professional Journalism about once a month when something truly dreadful crosses my awareness.

This same low-effort ClickBait media system is responsible for the Rise of Trump. Ten years ago his campaign opening speech would have ended his primary instantly, but disenchanted low-information habitual Republicans who only know what some shiney talking head tells them voted for him because the media dropped the ball over and over.
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Old 30th June 2016, 10:31 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by Dipayan View Post
'All'? There were 2 kids. There were 3 accusations, but 1 of them chose to flee the country to avoid testifying against Michael Jackson.

Of those 2 kids, one had his (or rather his parents had their) day in court, and the jury unanimously found against them, and not over a technicality. The third kid was actually a part of MJ's defence team, but about a decade later wanted to sue for molestation which the courts did not uphold. Make of that what you will.
During the trial there was testimony from a fourth person, the son of a former Neverland Ranch maid, whose alleged abuse took place too long ago to warrant criminal charges but whose testimony was still permitted under California law.

The third kid you mention was not "part of MJ's defense team", but had simply been called as a witness for the defense. His 2013 lawsuit against Jackson's estate for molestation was dismissed because California law only gives claimants one year after an individual's death to file a claim against that individual's estate. There is also a fifth person now grown, who made his own allegations against Jackson at the same time as the man who had been that "third kid" did.

That makes (so far) five different and unconnected individuals, all of whom were actually confirmed to have spent time with Jackson at around the same age. One's allegations were not found to be credible; one was settled out of court; the remainder have no technical legal recourse and thus will remain open questions.
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Old 30th June 2016, 10:36 AM   #345
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To state the obvious: the sincere and legitimate concerns as to the sexual exploitation of children by adults has often now resulted in many people seeing any depiction of nudity of children as pedophilia, especially in the USA. This is a significant change from many other countries, and even in the USA a few decades ago, where/when children were not viewed as potential sexual objects by society as a whole and child nudity (at beaches for example) was considered perfectly appropriate. Child nudity in art was also considered an example of innocence, not of perversion.

It seems to be that recognition that children are sexually exploited by some people in society is a very important advance in protecting them, but has now made many images of children, and people such as teachers just innocently patting children on their shoulders, or even being alone with a child, highly sensitive topics. People have been assaulted for simply taking a photo of an outdoor scene including fully clothed children if a witness has considered the photographer to "look creepy." Parents have be questioned by police if they had photos of their own children at age 2 in a bath.

I don't have any easy universally applicable rule, but I fear that by trying to protect children we run the risk of imposing a sexuality on them that is not there, making them and their parents paranoid, and punishing people who enjoy children in completely innocent ways. A nude image of a child may be a painting of a cherub or true child pornography. A teacher hugging a 6 year old may be a wonderful mentor or a pervert. One much be careful to determine which is which before going on a witch hunt.
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Old 30th June 2016, 11:31 AM   #346
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making them and their parents paranoid, and punishing people who enjoy children in completely innocent ways.
Yes; this.

I don't personally give a damn whether or not MJ was a child molester. I never met the man, I wasn't a big fan, and so I have no reason to care.

However, I do very much want to stop the predation on children without preventing people from being able to provide for children, make children happy, and enjoy children without being subjected to ruinous accusations and false prosecutions.

These allegations destroyed MJ's life in so many ways. Despite his acquittal, the accusations just continue to fly 'round on endless cycles of wash, rinse, spin, repeat. Despite all his money, his talent, his fame, and his charitable efforts, his name has become almost synonymous with child molestation.

It would've been less harmful to him to have been convicted of murder, I think, then it was to just be repeatedly accused and tried for molestation.

Obviously we all want to prevent child abuse, and we all want to punish those who engage in it. But we need to be very, very careful before we start making accusations, and when someone is charged and acquitted we all need to let it go and move on.

It's too late for MJ. The man is dead. But he has living children and other relatives who are still suffering over this. Can't we all -as individuals- do our own share of "victim advocacy" by letting those affected to live without being constantly reminded of his failings, whatever they were?
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Old 30th June 2016, 11:48 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
It's too late for MJ. The man is dead. But he has living children and other relatives who are still suffering over this. Can't we all -as individuals- do our own share of "victim advocacy" by letting those affected to live without being constantly reminded of his alleged failings, whatever they were?
FTFY...replacing "were" with "might have been" would have worked, too.
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Old 30th June 2016, 11:58 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The reason that is not an effective analogy is that "Bigfoot" doesn't exist, whereas pedophiles - even wealthy and/or famous ones - do. One is an extraordinary claim where as the other is quite mundane.
No harm accusing people of being child molesters, then.
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Old 30th June 2016, 12:01 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
These allegations destroyed MJ's life in so many ways. Despite his acquittal, the accusations just continue to fly 'round on endless cycles of wash, rinse, spin, repeat. Despite all his money, his talent, his fame, and his charitable efforts, his name has become almost synonymous with child molestation.

It would've been less harmful to him to have been convicted of murder, I think, then it was to just be repeatedly accused and tried for molestation.
He also continued to make new albums, sell millions of records, and earn hundreds of millions of dollars - earnings that have continued years after his death; it hasn't been documented that the child molestation allegations made even a dent in Jackson's career in terms of measurable numbers. Jackson was falling into dangerous debt before the allegations; as a result of them, he ended up selling Neverland Ranch which not only resolved his debt, but catapulted him far back into comfortable self-made multi-millionaire status. News of Jackson's death literally broke the internet, and his televised funeral was watched by over 30 million mourning fans, meaning this man whose name you say has become almost synonymous with child molestation died the single most beloved pop culture entertainer in the history of the planet.
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Old 30th June 2016, 12:37 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
And yet, it wasn't.

Again, MJ had thousands of books. Why would anyone be judged by a handful of oddball stuff from a huge collection?

There was nothing in that list to determine what MJ thought of any of it.

Who knows when, how, or why he acquired it?
Who knows if he ever even looked through it?

This may comes as a shock: but artists study art. It's part of the creative process to fill the "creative tank" with thousands of images of all kinds of ideas and all kinds of techniques and styles. It's part and parcel of the package of being in any kind of entertainment or creative field.

MJ had a lot of materials related to men and male sexuality, but I would not want to jump to the conclusion he was homosexual or bisexual based on them. As a dancer, those thousands of images also fueled his artistic vocabulary, and that may have been his primary reason for collecting them. The human form -body types, poses, lighting and the emotional impact on a viewer would be extremely important to him.
I have a lot of books too. I don't have any books with sexualized depictions of children.

Maybe MJ was really into art. Or maybe he liked to sleep with little boys and got off on sexualized depictions of children.

Again, I'm not saying he molested kids. That doesn't make him not a creepy perv, which I think the evidence clearly shows he was.
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Old 30th June 2016, 12:54 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by John Nowak View Post
No harm accusing people of being child molesters, then.
Pedophilia, not child molestation. But, I'd propose there's no effective harm in accusing a dead guy of anything really.
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Old 30th June 2016, 02:32 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by John Nowak View Post
IIRC, wasn't he kidnapped from his bedroom?

That's what they said. But you know about them.
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Old 30th June 2016, 03:55 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Certainly not?

"The effect of the image is certainly transgressive, and those who are uncomfortable with any sexualized depiction of children will probably have pejorative labels for this work."

Sounds like kiddie porn.
Except that the prosecution and the person who collected it and was trained to know, both say that it wasn't.

What it was was a collection of photos created by an artist that had been displayed in a galley and subsequently were published in a book.

This was the same as many of the other books listed.

If it had been a book filled with Renaissance Paintings of cherubs, Greek gods, and other nude and naked people would you think that this was suspicious? If not, then why would more modern versions of this sort of art be so suspicious, especially when these books are fully available to the public and the images had been displayed in galleries around the world?
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:00 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Except that the prosecution and the person who collected it and was trained to know, both say that it wasn't.

What it was was a collection of photos created by an artist that had been displayed in a galley and subsequently were published in a book.

This was the same as many of the other books listed.

If it had been a book filled with Renaissance Paintings of cherubs, Greek gods, and other nude and naked people would you think that this was suspicious? If not, then why would more modern versions of this sort of art be so suspicious, especially when these books are fully available to the public and the images had been displayed in galleries around the world?
But it wasn't Renaissance paintings. It had sexualized depictions of children. I know, it technically fell under the category of art. The book's legal status doesn't have any bearing on whether MJ got off on it. I think he did.
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:06 PM   #355
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We shouldn't talk bad about the dead. Michael is probably in Heaven now doing what he does best: flying around like Peter Pan on his new wings, singing with the angels, and molesting Cherubs (I hope he doesn't get into trouble for that!).
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:06 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
But it wasn't Renaissance paintings. It had sexualized depictions of children. I know, it technically fell under the category of art. The book's legal status doesn't have any bearing on whether MJ got off on it. I think he did.
Do you have proof or just speculation? Or do you think everyone that viewed and purchased this art was in it for getting off on the pictures? Have you actually seen the pictures involved, or are you making your mind up without any facts at all?
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:19 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Do you have proof or just speculation? Or do you think everyone that viewed and purchased this art was in it for getting off on the pictures? Have you actually seen the pictures involved, or are you making your mind up without any facts at all?
I read the link you provided about the book a couple posts back. Aren't links facts?

And of course I'm speculating. I don't have video of him wacking off to it.
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:22 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
I have a lot of books too. I don't have any books with sexualized depictions of children.
You don't own a copy of Romeo and Juliet? She was decidedly underage.
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:24 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
You don't own a copy of Romeo and Juliet? She was decidedly underage.
When I was in high school, my English teacher showed some Romeo and Juliet movie, and when Juliet rolled out of bed, she was topless. We freshman all started cracking up, and the movie was abandoned.
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Old 30th June 2016, 04:30 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
I *assume* that's this:

https://www.amazon.com/Room-Play-Sim...dp/1931885214/

I don't know what's in it, but I'm fairly certain if I can buy it on Amazon.com, it's probably not illegal.
That book is different from the two discussed earlier. Those two contained actual nude photographs of boys; this book on the other hand seems to have taken children and photoshopped various things onto them (including nude adult parts, apparently).
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