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Old 17th January 2019, 07:35 AM   #2161
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If the model is out there, it is on the voter to access it.
Irrelevant.

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
And we are stuck with our choices. You just can't change them. That is unethical.
Your "I don't understand how principles work" performance art needs a bit more tuning.
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Old 17th January 2019, 07:41 AM   #2162
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Hitachi have pulled out of contracts to build nuclear power stations.
They are prepared to take a £2.4bn hit toget out of it.
Toshiaki Higashihara, CEO of Hitachi, said in March 2016 before the referendum that his firm was against Brexit and it’d have to review its uk investments including the nuclear project if we voted to leave the EU.

Toshiba pulled out of a nuclear power contract last November.
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Old 17th January 2019, 07:49 AM   #2163
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
And we are stuck with our choices. You just can't change them. That is unethical.
How? I decided to buy a house in a certain location and I am now selling it and will move somewhere else. The option to change my mind is always open to me. How on earth would it be unethical to change my mind about something if that choice is open to me?
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Old 17th January 2019, 07:49 AM   #2164
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Hitachi have pulled out of contracts to build nuclear power stations.
They are prepared to take a £2.4bn hit toget out of it.
Toshiaki Higashihara, CEO of Hitachi, said in March 2016 before the referendum that his firm was against Brexit and it’d have to review its uk investments including the nuclear project if we voted to leave the EU.

Toshiba pulled out of a nuclear power contract last November.
S'alright, after a no-deal Brexit we won't need electricity, we'll be back to rubbing sticks and banging rocks together to produce the latest technological marvel - fire.
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Old 17th January 2019, 07:50 AM   #2165
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Hitachi have pulled out of contracts to build nuclear power stations.
They are prepared to take a £2.4bn hit toget out of it.
Toshiaki Higashihara, CEO of Hitachi, said in March 2016 before the referendum that his firm was against Brexit and it’d have to review its uk investments including the nuclear project if we voted to leave the EU.

Toshiba pulled out of a nuclear power contract last November.
This one on the face of it isn't obvious to me. Not sure what impact Brexit will have this particular investment? Off the top of my head is it just a currency/exhange rate issue?
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Old 17th January 2019, 07:51 AM   #2166
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
How? I decided to buy a house in a certain location and I am now selling it and will move somewhere else. The option to change my mind is always open to me. How on earth would it be unethical to change my mind about something if that choice is open to me?
Something is not ethical simply because the option is available to you. Some options are ethical, some are not.

It is like when you are a child, and you choose a video game to buy. Sometimes you made the wrong choice. Well, you had one choice, you made it, and now you better learn to like it.

ETA: or when you signed up to play a sport and you found out you hated it, you finished the season.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 17th January 2019 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:01 AM   #2167
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Some options are ethical, some are not.
Oh, do please tell us how you distinguish the two. And don't tell me you have no opinion on that. You clearly do, since you called changing one's mind unethical.
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:03 AM   #2168
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Something is not ethical simply because the option is available to you. Some options are ethical, some are not.

It is like when you are a child, and you choose a video game to buy. Sometimes you made the wrong choice. Well, you had one choice, you made it, and now you better learn to like it.
And something isn't unethical because you made a choice. So I am asking why you think its unethical.

You can return that game if you don't like it and the store allows it. That would not be unethical. It's not unethical to move house.
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:15 AM   #2169
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
And something isn't unethical because you made a choice. So I am asking why you think its unethical.

You can return that game if you don't like it and the store allows it. That would not be unethical. It's not unethical to move house.
You can, but you don't return it. You were stuck with it.
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:17 AM   #2170
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is like when you are a child, and you choose a video game to buy. Sometimes you made the wrong choice. Well, you had one choice, you made it, and now you better learn to like it.
A better analogy would be that you chose a video game to buy, did some research, found out it was crap, and are now being told that you still have to buy it even though you haven't pressed the "Place Order" button yet.

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Old 17th January 2019, 08:20 AM   #2171
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
If I did then I think we would see a shift on the deal in the HoC but I am not sure why you don't see a shift on the public opinion. Demographics alone have probably wiped out the majority for Leave.
An opinion poll published today showed 56% now in favour of remain. Do you not find it worrying that after the debacle of the last 2.5 years, 44% of the public still want to leave the EU?
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:22 AM   #2172
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
S'alright, after a no-deal Brexit we won't need electricity, we'll be back to rubbing sticks and banging rocks together to produce the latest technological marvel - fire.
Fire?
We'd be so be lucky.

(Flying visit, back to stay, or are you just lost? )
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:25 AM   #2173
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Fire?
We'd be so be lucky.

(Flying visit, back to stay, or are you just lost? )
Shh, it's best to pretend you haven't noticed, if he remembers he's still supposed to be mad with us, he'll be off again.
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:28 AM   #2174
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
A better analogy would be that you chose a video game to buy, did some research, found out it was crap, and are now being told that you still have to buy it even though you haven't pressed the "Place Order" button yet.

Dave
A vote seems like "place order."
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:33 AM   #2175
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
A better analogy would be that you chose a video game to buy, did some research, found out it was crap, and are now being told that you still have to buy it even though you haven't pressed the "Place Order" button yet.

Dave
If I tell my computer to reformat my hard drive it will say something like "this will destroy all your files - are you sure you want to do that?" before carrying out my instruction. I can always say "Yes" if I'm OK with that. If the consequences were news to me and it then did it anyway without giving me the opportunity to change my mind I would be extremely annoyed.
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:36 AM   #2176
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
If I tell my computer to reformat my hard drive it will say something like "this will destroy all your files - are you sure you want to do that?" before carrying out my instruction. I can always say "Yes" if I'm OK with that. If the consequences were news to me and it then did it anyway without giving me the opportunity to change my mind I would be extremely annoyed.
The are you sure....was the campaign.
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:37 AM   #2177
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You can, but you don't return it. You were stuck with it.
Back in 1989 I bought a SEGA Master System with a game, and returned it after a week, paying the difference and leaving with a SEGA Genesis instead.

I guess the computer store was being unethical.

I notice you dodged my earlier request, but I'm not surprised.
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:39 AM   #2178
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Back in 1989 I bought a SEGA Master System with a game, and returned it after a week, paying the difference and leaving with a SEGA Genesis instead.

I guess the computer store was being unethical.

I notice you dodged my earlier request, but I'm not surprised.
Really? I was never permitted to make returns by my parents.
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:44 AM   #2179
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Really? I was never permitted to make returns by my parents.
Your parents sucked.
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:52 AM   #2180
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Oh, do please tell us how you distinguish the two. And don't tell me you have no opinion on that. You clearly do, since you called changing one's mind unethical.
In this case, a person has made a commitment with their vote. It is generally ethical to honor commitments even when it is non beneficial to yourself.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:02 AM   #2181
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Guido Fawkes is reporting that the Conservatives have rushed into candidate selection for all of their least winnable seats, suggesting that they are on an election footing. Didn't May promise to quit before the next election? So what's this all about?
Strong & stable?
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:04 AM   #2182
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
In this case, a person has made a commitment with their vote.
No, they have communicated their opinion at the time of voting.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:06 AM   #2183
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The person who 'made a commitment' to leave should be committed.

But basically you are talking bollocks.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:07 AM   #2184
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
No, they have communicated their opinion at the time of voting.
It is a declaration of a course of action and a commitment to your decision.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:08 AM   #2185
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
An opinion poll published today showed 56% now in favour of remain. Do you not find it worrying that after the debacle of the last 2.5 years, 44% of the public still want to leave the EU?
Not sure if worrying is the right word. Given my overall opinion of the UK electorate is more relief that 56% seem to have managed to find the obvious right answer.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:10 AM   #2186
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is a declaration of a course of action and a commitment to your decision.
No, you're twisting words in order to make the decision irrevocable, but it isn't so.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:11 AM   #2187
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is a declaration of a course of action and a commitment to your decision.
You keep asserting your odd opinions but you never seem to offer any explanation as to why you think these odd things other than that you think them. (or don't as the case may be)
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:12 AM   #2188
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Been trying to weigh up if Corbyn strategy is right or wrong. On balance I think it is right in regards to what is the point of having talks with May if she isn't going to change her position at all and this is a good test of that. On the other hand we need to get some resolution as to what the next steps will be as quickly as possible.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:13 AM   #2189
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In any case, if we follow this weird logic then if a 2nd vote is held then all it means is that those who voted the first time should vote the same way again. This alone might well see a majority for remain once changes in the electorate are taken into account.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:24 AM   #2190
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
In any case, if we follow this weird logic then if a 2nd vote is held then all it means is that those who voted the first time should vote the same way again. This alone might well see a majority for remain once changes in the electorate are taken into account.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ond-referendum


Originally Posted by Polly Toynbee


You could call it swing Saturday or crossover day, for this Saturday, 19 January, marks an important moment. This is the day, in theory, when the country turns remain. Even if not a single person has changed their mind since the referendum, the demographic shift alone will have done the heavy lifting. Enough old leavers will have died and enough young remainers will have come on to the electoral register to turn the dial on what the country thinks about Brexit.

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Old 17th January 2019, 09:28 AM   #2191
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
In any case, if we follow this weird logic then if a 2nd vote is held then all it means is that those who voted the first time should vote the same way again. This alone might well see a majority for remain once changes in the electorate are taken into account.
All the remainers have an obligation to vote leave now. Don't be a sore loser.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:30 AM   #2192
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
All the remainers have an obligation to vote leave now.
Ok I'll give this one an eight. Not a bad showing for you.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:37 AM   #2193
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
325 v 306 May survives.
Is that about 52% v 48%?
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:38 AM   #2194
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
All the remainers have an obligation to vote leave now. Don't be a sore loser.
But that would be changing my mind. Which you said is unethical.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:39 AM   #2195
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
But that would be changing my mind. Which you said is unethical.
It would not be changing your mind. You still need to think that leave is a bad idea.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:41 AM   #2196
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Been trying to weigh up if Corbyn strategy is right or wrong. On balance I think it is right in regards to what is the point of having talks with May if she isn't going to change her position at all and this is a good test of that. On the other hand we need to get some resolution as to what the next steps will be as quickly as possible.
Corbyn's strategy is (having heard from the SNP/Green/Lib encounters with May this past day) correct, in that she is clearly being completely intransigent, so there's little point. However, I suspect it's not so much strategy as fluke.

He's as stubborn and blinkered as she is, and still has his imaginary election in sight. Unless he finally comes to his senses and realises that is a complete pipe dream then I fear he'll happily keep us chugging towards the cliff edge.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:43 AM   #2197
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It would not be changing your mind. You still need to think that leave is a bad idea.
Your score can only go downhill, Bob. You can stop now.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:43 AM   #2198
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Originally Posted by Blue Bubble View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ond-referendum
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly Toynbee


You could call it swing Saturday or crossover day, for this Saturday, 19 January, marks an important moment. This is the day, in theory, when the country turns remain. Even if not a single person has changed their mind since the referendum, the demographic shift alone will have done the heavy lifting. Enough old leavers will have died and enough young remainers will have come on to the electoral register to turn the dial on what the country thinks about Brexit.
I would query that, as the main stats I have seen have only listed those over 65yrs as being leave voters. However, in that group, I have read that those who actually were adults in the war were largely remain voters, while baby boomers (those who reached adulthood after the war) are the leave voters.

Can't find any solid data to back this up though.
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:44 AM   #2199
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Your score can only go downhill, Bob. You can stop now.
What score?
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Old 17th January 2019, 09:48 AM   #2200
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What score?
Eight.
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