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Tags Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Mueller investigation , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 26th February 2019, 09:07 AM   #561
Squeegee Beckenheim
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https://twitter.com/MikeScarcella/st...10533314875398

Quote:
Break: DC Circuit rejects Andrew Miller's subpoena challenge to Special Counsel Robert Mueller's authority. Order (opinion to follow):
Documents embedded in tweets.
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Old 26th February 2019, 09:19 AM   #562
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
I can see why someone with your poor comprehension would infer such a thing.
Hmm, I have the actual words which say:

Rosenstein: "...if we aren't prepared to prove our case beyond a reasonable doubt in court, then we have no business making allegations against American citizens."

And you have you exciting anecdote about a student writing an essay...

Hmm, that does seem close! After all I have the person explaining why they "have no business making allegations against American citizens," and you have a student who bought an essay on line...

Well that plus the fine argument:

i cAn sEe wHy sOmEoNe wItH YoUr pOoR CoMpReHeNsIoN WoUlD InFeR SuCh a tHiNg.
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Old 26th February 2019, 11:44 AM   #563
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Hmm, I have the actual words which say:

Rosenstein: "...if we aren't prepared to prove our case beyond a reasonable doubt in court, then we have no business making allegations against American citizens."...
Clue: You're wasting your time. No one cares about your pedantry, other than perhaps being mildly annoyed by it.

Everyone knows the standard of proof in the courtroom is much higher than the standards we all use every day. What we all know to a high level of certainty often differs from what we can prove in court.

But that does not mean we don't know what we know.
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Old 26th February 2019, 12:21 PM   #564
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
Clever wording there. A prosecutor can decide there is not sufficient evidence to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt and therefore not prosecute. In such a situation the prosecutor has decided there is no "beyond a reasonable doubt" without any input from a judge or jury.
Agree. There is nothing special or unusual about this wording.

DAs and assistant DAs do this all the time. If there is not enough evidence to convict, they will often not go forward with a case without more investigation. The reason is easy to understand; if they take a case to court, and anything happens after jeopardy has attached, e.g. the case is dismissed (with prejudice of course), or the defendant is found not guilty, then its game over.

When prosecutors are sure that the suspect did the crime but they know they will be unable to prove it on court due to, say, insufficient evidence, they will often rather leave the suspect free for the time being (under a cloud of suspicion) than risk them being free and never being liable to prosecution for that crime.
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Old 26th February 2019, 12:23 PM   #565
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Clue: You're wasting your time. No one cares about your pedantry, other than perhaps being mildly annoyed by it.

Everyone knows the standard of proof in the courtroom is much higher than the standards we all use every day. What we all know to to a high level of certainty often differs from what we can prove in court.

But that does not mean we don't know what we know.
Quoting Rosenstein's words is now pedantry, and "skeptics" are now declaring that no matter what the Mueller report says, (and based on what Rosenstein said, it ain't gonna mention anything about people who did not commit crimes) skeptics "know what we know."

Good question, tho, I have no idea why i waste my time; buncha true believers around here.
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Old 26th February 2019, 12:31 PM   #566
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Good question, tho, I have no idea why i waste my time; buncha true believers around here.
My Irony Meter just exploded....
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Old 26th February 2019, 12:33 PM   #567
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
Clever wording there. A prosecutor can decide there is not sufficient evidence to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt and therefore not prosecute. In such a situation the prosecutor has decided there is no "beyond a reasonable doubt" without any input from a judge or jury.
I've no doubt you have an example in mind.
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Old 26th February 2019, 12:38 PM   #568
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
My Irony Meter just exploded....
Mine too. We need to stop relying on those things.
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Old 26th February 2019, 12:47 PM   #569
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Quoting Rosenstein's words is now pedantry, and "skeptics" are now declaring that no matter what the Mueller report says, (and based on what Rosenstein said, it ain't gonna mention anything about people who did not commit crimes) skeptics "know what we know."

Good question, tho, I have no idea why i waste my time; buncha true believers around here.
You may not understand what Rosenstein was getting at:

Rosenstein: "...if we aren't prepared to prove our case beyond a reasonable doubt in court, then we have no business making allegations against American citizens."...

I highlighted "our case" because Rosenstein was referring to situations in which they have a case. If they have a case, that means they believe their case is correct, otherwise they would not have pursued it in the first place. Rosenstein was simply referring to instances in which they do not believe they can meet the courtroom standard of proof, which is very high. Not that they do not believe their case is true.

Rosenstein could believe his case is true. He could have evidence that supports his case to a 90% certainty. And yet that case would not meet the courtroom standard of proof, and so Rosenstein would not bring it.

But that would not mean Rosenstein does not know what he knows.

And that does not mean the voters will not know what they know in 2020.
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Old 26th February 2019, 12:52 PM   #570
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
It is evidence of improper contacts that were then lied about that were then covered up that investigations into have faced extraordinary attempts to interfere with and intimidate.

You know, the kind of thing you expect to happen when a casual, but honest, mistake happens, right?

This evidence is located in courtrooms of various federal and state jurisdictions and attested to by many of the people involved who are now serving time for their crimes or in the process of receiving judgment to that effect.

Are we really going to do the "no really, I just woke up from a coma and have no clue what's going on around here" routine?
That's allegations, not evidence. Unless you can point me somewhere that actually lists these improper contacts.
Process crimes are not evidence of collusion. Where is the evidence of that?

Also, just curious. What are the attempts to intimidate and interfere?
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Old 26th February 2019, 12:53 PM   #571
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I think that denial of reality is going to be the only route left for the Trumpsters very soon....
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Old 26th February 2019, 12:54 PM   #572
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think that denial of reality is going to be the only route left for the Trumpsters very soon....
And violence. Don't forget violence.
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Old 26th February 2019, 12:56 PM   #573
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think that denial of reality is going to be the only route left for the Trumpsters very soon....
The denial of reality is what Trumpsters like to call "Winning!".
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Old 26th February 2019, 01:03 PM   #574
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
That's allegations, not evidence. Unless you can point me somewhere that actually lists these improper contacts.
If only someone would post a quick bullet-point list in this very thread, complete with links that detail such contacts.
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Old 26th February 2019, 01:21 PM   #575
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
That's allegations, not evidence. Unless you can point me somewhere that actually lists these improper contacts.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post12613023
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Old 26th February 2019, 01:28 PM   #576
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
That's allegations, not evidence.

<snip>
Okay, I'm out.
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Old 26th February 2019, 01:56 PM   #577
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Paul Manafort's team have submitted a sentencing memo. He says "no collusion" more times than Trump tweets it.


Here is my favorite part:


Quote:
Mr. Manafort, who was always proud of his ability to provide financial support to his immediate and extended family, is now in the process of forfeiting the vast majority of his assets in order to make amends.

Boo hoo - you gotta sell your ostrich jacket that you bought with blood money.


Last edited by carlitos; 26th February 2019 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 26th February 2019, 02:07 PM   #578
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Paul Manafort's team have submitted a sentencing memo. He says "no collusion" more times than Trump tweets it.


Here is my favorite part:





Boo hoo - you gotta sell your ostrich jacket that you bought with blood money.
Calling out for a pardon. This sentencing memo is targeted at an audience of one.
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Old 26th February 2019, 02:11 PM   #579
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think that denial of reality is going to be the only route left for the Trumpsters very soon....
And gaslighting.
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Old 26th February 2019, 02:11 PM   #580
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The problem is "reality denial" is a valid option. We've let it get to that point.
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Old 26th February 2019, 02:11 PM   #581
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If I were Manafort I would be more worried about Trump's boss then Trump. Another of Putin's critics in Russia just met with an "accidental" death.
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Old 26th February 2019, 02:33 PM   #582
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John Fugelsang tweeted
@JohnFugelsang
Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani reminds you not to trust Trump lawyer Michael Cohen bc Trump lawyers tend to be liars.
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Old 26th February 2019, 02:41 PM   #583
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Paul Manafort's team have submitted a sentencing memo. He says "no collusion" more times than Trump tweets it.

Here is my favorite part:

Boo hoo - you gotta sell your ostrich jacket that you bought with blood money.
I'd be shocked if the judge didn't hand down a pretty stiff sentence. This idea that this was just because he didn't register as a foreign agent is absurd. There is the tax fraud, the bank fraud and how he was working with the Russians.
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Old 26th February 2019, 02:46 PM   #584
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Congressman Matt Gaetz tweeted


Quote:
@mattgaetz
Hey @MichaelCohen212
- Do your wife & father-in-law know about your girlfriends? Maybe tonight would be a good time for that chat. I wonder if she’ll remain faithful when you’re in prison. She’s about to learn a lot...
Isn't that blatent witness intimidation?
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Old 26th February 2019, 02:54 PM   #585
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Congressman Matt Gaetz tweeted

Isn't that blatent witness intimidation?
Wow, that's incredibly sleazy. Looking at his bio in wiki, this guy is a piece of work indeed.
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Old 26th February 2019, 04:22 PM   #586
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Congressman Matt Gaetz tweeted




Isn't that blatent witness intimidation?
From Popehat:
Let me put it this way: if one of my clients made a statement to a witness like @mattgaetz did, I'd be telling them to board their dogs so they don't get shot when the arrest team shows up.
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Old 26th February 2019, 04:35 PM   #587
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If I were Manafort I would be more worried about Trump's boss then Trump.
Indeed. I'd also feel more comfortable in solitary confinement than general population.
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Old 26th February 2019, 04:39 PM   #588
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Wow, that's incredibly sleazy. Looking at his bio in wiki, this guy is a piece of work indeed.
Matt Gaetz - isn't he the NAMBLA guy? The one Epstein described as a gay version of him? I'm sure it is. Lots of people are saying it. Matt Gaetz. NAMBLA. All together now ...
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Old 26th February 2019, 04:50 PM   #589
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Congressman Matt Gaetz tweeted




Isn't that blatent witness intimidation?
https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1100530868739850240

Quote:
Rep. Matt Gaetz, speaking outside his office to reporters, repeatedly argued that his tweet on Michael Cohen is not a threat and it’s not witness tampering but “witness testing.” Per @KilloughCNN
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:12 PM   #590
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Lol Popehat replied with "That's not a thing."
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:17 PM   #591
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Lol Popehat replied with "That's not a thing."
Matt Gaetz has a thing for NAMBLA, though. It's the talk of Washington, trust me.
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:21 PM   #592
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
Indeed. I'd also feel more comfortable in solitary confinement than general population.
Even if Trump pardons him, Putin might still think things would be better if Manafort were out of the way permanently.
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:22 PM   #593
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It is interesting that the SDNY cases might be much more damaging to Trump then the Russian Investigation.
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:43 PM   #594
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
And violence. Don't forget violence.
Trump is on record as being an advocate of the second amendment solution.
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Old 26th February 2019, 06:52 PM   #595
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Lol Popehat replied with "That's not a thing."
Not seeing any tweet from popehat there.
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Old 26th February 2019, 06:59 PM   #596
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Not seeing any tweet from popehat there.
https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1...054897152?s=19

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
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Old 26th February 2019, 07:16 PM   #597
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
That's allegations, not evidence.
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
If only someone would post a quick bullet-point list in this very thread, complete with links that detail such contacts.
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If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
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Old 26th February 2019, 07:17 PM   #598
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by beren View Post
https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1...054897152?s=19

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
Ta muchly

ETA: Love this bit

"You may try to invoke the Speech and Debate Clause, citing you Twitter account as an official act. Ask your lawyers about that; I hope you're not relying on it. In short, lawyer up, dirtbag."
ETA2: Anyone notice that the The Big Dog doesn't quote his great hero, Popehat any more? I wonder why that is?
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“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore - if they're white!"
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 26th February 2019 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 26th February 2019, 07:19 PM   #599
Minoosh
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Quote:
Mr. Manafort, who was always proud of his ability to provide financial support to his immediate and extended family, is now in the process of forfeiting the vast majority of his assets in order to make amends.
Why does his lawyer think the judge gives a rat's *** that Manafort can no longer support his greedy relatives? Is it bad for his self-esteem, or something?

I know it would be unprofessional, but if I were a judge that would leave me itching to impose the maximum penalty.
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Old 26th February 2019, 08:32 PM   #600
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
<snip>
Are we really going to do the "no really, I just woke up from a coma and have no clue what's going on around here" routine?
Let's just wait and see what we do get. For all we know it might be something original.
Ready to call it, yet?
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