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Tags donald trump , Hunter Biden , joe biden , rudy giuliani , Trump controversies , US-Ukraine relations

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Old Today, 12:43 PM   #2041
Armitage72
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Mulvaney: Of course the aid to Ukraine was tied to them investigating for us. We do that all the time.


Quote:
Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney told reporters today that aid to Ukraine was in fact tied to President Trump’s wish for an investigation into the 2016 election.

When asked about the decision to withhold aid from Ukraine, Mulvaney told reporters that President Trump told him at the time, "This is a corrupt place. Everyone knows this is a corrupt place…Plus, I'm not sure that the other European countries are helping them out either.”

Mulvaney also added, “Did he also mention me in the past that the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about that."

When questioned on Mulvaney saying that the White House held up security money from Ukraine until the president got assurances, Mulvaney told reporters to “get over it” saying there are going to be political impacts on foreign policy.

A reporter then questioned Mulvaney on his explanation saying it sounds like a quid-pro-quo to which Mulvaney said: “We do that all the time with foreign policy.”
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Old Today, 12:46 PM   #2042
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It's the same tactics the Trumpers here on the board use.

"It's not bad because it's not uniquely bad. It something everyone does (even though they don't) and the way we are doing it is no worse (even though it is) so you can't say or do anything about without being a hypocrite (which is not how this works) therefore we didn't do anything wrong (which is again not how this works.)"
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Old Today, 12:51 PM   #2043
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But, again, that's sort of what I was talking about.

"We need to investigate the Ukrainian deal. If we can prove that there was quid-pro-quo... oh wait never mind he just literally admitted it on live TV."

Like, this should be it. Trump just, via spokesperson, admitted to the very thing that his impeachment is about. Like that's it, it's done. There's nothing that the investigation is going to uncover that's worse then him just literally admitted he did it.

Yet... why am I feeling like this isn't the end?

And again I'm not being snarky or playing gotcha here. I'm dead serious. What are we doing? How is proving Trump did the thing he just admitted he did going to change anything?
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Old Today, 12:52 PM   #2044
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
**** that. Americans have been outraged at what's happening. To come here and generalize America, when Americans here have been expressing said outrage, is pathetic.

What the **** is your country doing to help the Kurds? **** all? I thought so. Thanks.
*Some* of them are expressing outrage. I have no idea how widespread that sentiment is, though. Some GOP and evangelicals were vocal last week, then that died down. Probably it's been resurrected somewhat by Trump's comments during yesterday's press availability. But a lot of times Americans are extremely callous when it comes to even basic empathy for non-Americans.

I think some Trump supporters were willing to direct their outrage at Turkey, then Trump sent extremely mixed messages yesterday. Will be interesting where it goes from here. I like to think Pence and Pompeo were thinking WTF are we supposed to be doing? Because yesterday Trump punted on saying anything at all against Erdogan, except for referring to that ridiculous letter. Now two of Trump's key enablers and biggest cheerleaders are in Turkey wondering what they're supposed to saying and how best to cover their own asses.
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Old Today, 12:53 PM   #2045
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SO Mulvaney just admitted it was a quid pro quo.
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Old Today, 12:59 PM   #2046
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I don't know how to phrase this any better.

Asking "Okay but what happens when Trump doesn't listen?" isn't some middling little detail I'm unreasonable for bringing up and expecting an answer beyond "But he has to listen! The rule book says so!"

He's already established, hell full on flouted with pride, his desire to just be contrarian, obstructionist idiot toward anything the Democrats do and enough of the rest of the government and his base support him enough that he can usually get away with it.

If they subpoena him he won't report for testimony. If they impeach him he won't step down. If he doesn't get re-elected in 2020 I think there's a fair chance he won't step down.

Lamb bleating "But he has too!" over and over isn't an answer. Trump doesn't have to do anything.

What is the plan to make Trump actually do anything? He has the Senate, he has the Federal Law enforcement, and (mostly) the Supreme Court on his side if not in his pocket.

Political force? Only the Senate has that in any real force to bear against the Presidency. Mitch McConnell couldn't make the fact that he's not going to do anything against Trump clearer without getting a "Trump Life" tattoo across his stomach.

Judicial force? 5-4 Conservative Majority, with two of those five being Trump appointees. Slim bit of hope on Roberts have one of his moments of Humanity.

Law enforcement? There's a reason Trump hand picked an Attorney General solely based on their "The President can do anything" stance.

What's left? A Trump/Pelosi Ladder Match at Wrestlemania? First person to grab the impeachment documents at the suspended above the ring wins?
Is there one thing in that post besides "oh noes we can't do anything"?

BTW, I don't believe he owns the SCOTUS. Robert's made it clear with the ACA challenge that he cares more about the integrity of the court than being a GOP cult member.
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Old Today, 12:59 PM   #2047
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Now two of Trump's key enablers and biggest cheerleaders are in Turkey wondering what they're supposed to saying and how best to cover their own asses.

It turns out the solution was to give Turkey everything they want and call it a triumph.
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Old Today, 01:00 PM   #2048
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Is there one thing in that post besides "oh noes we can't do anything"?
You're about a page and a half late. I've already got the same spiel from a half dozen people.
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Old Today, 01:03 PM   #2049
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OK, so Erdogan reportedly agreed to a 5-day ceasefire while U.S. troops facilitate safe removal of the Kurds.

Wonder how that's going to work out.
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Old Today, 01:03 PM   #2050
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm not going down the "Oh so what's YOUR plan smart guy?" route.

I'm not Congress. The balance of power in the United States isn't Executive/Judicial/Joe.

It's not my job to have a plan to deal with an out of control Chief Executive. If it's my job to deal with Trump why am I wasting my tax dollars on Pelosi and AOC?[snip]
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Old Today, 01:04 PM   #2051
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And again I'm not being snarky or playing gotcha here. I'm dead serious. What are we doing? How is proving Trump did the thing he just admitted he did going to change anything?
It just happened sir. We need to give it more than a few hours to see what will happen.

Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
*Some* of them are expressing outrage. I have no idea how widespread that sentiment is, though. Some GOP and evangelicals were vocal last week, then that died down. Probably it's been resurrected somewhat by Trump's comments during yesterday's press availability. But a lot of times Americans are extremely callous when it comes to even basic empathy for non-Americans.

I think some Trump supporters were willing to direct their outrage at Turkey, then Trump sent extremely mixed messages yesterday. Will be interesting where it goes from here. I like to think Pence and Pompeo were thinking WTF are we supposed to be doing? Because yesterday Trump punted on saying anything at all against Erdogan, except for referring to that ridiculous letter. Now two of Trump's key enablers and biggest cheerleaders are in Turkey wondering what they're supposed to saying and how best to cover their own asses.
That's all fine and well; however, I don't take lightly people telling me that I, as an American, don't care what's happening to the Kurds. Especially considering several Americans are here decrying the actions taken by the **** head in the WH. I won't say that every American is glued to their TV or news service to find out what's happening. That would be asinine. Almost as much so as someone coming here on a high horse claiming that our citizens don't give a **** when several of them have spoken out, especially in the military.

It would appear that America(ns) cared enough to leave troops in the country to keep them safe. Can the country that Lurch hails from say the same thing? If not, then does his country care even less?
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Old Today, 01:05 PM   #2052
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Well no fret because this is a wonderful opportunity to prove me wrong, seeing as how Trump just admitted to the very thing his impeachment investigation was investigating.

I'm sure that means the hammer is going to fall any day now.

Or the Democrats will find another excuse to "keep investigating" something everybody already knows the answer to.

Let's see which happens.
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Old Today, 01:06 PM   #2053
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
At this point, it is really not about what Trump does, but what the people around him do.
The Whistleblower-complaint has clearly been a watershed, with people in the administration rather than not cooperating with the House investigations.
People are thinking of their Life-after-Trump and don't want it to include a prison sentence.

Trump is already running out of people who will actually do what he asks: using Rudi was already scraping the bottom of the barrel, and he is gone now.
This ^ makes more sense than crying about Trump's lawlessness.
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Old Today, 01:07 PM   #2054
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
It turns out the solution was to give Turkey everything they want and call it a triumph.
I hope that occurs to Pence and/or Pompeo.

WaPo seems very forgiving on the paywall when I'm on a mobile device.
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Old Today, 01:08 PM   #2055
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It just happened sir. We need to give it more than a few hours to see what will happen.
*Shrugs* Maybe I'm just suffering from outrage fatigue. I mean yeah this sure intellectually feels like a bombshell but emotionally... it doesn't.
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Old Today, 01:12 PM   #2056
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Or the Democrats will find another excuse to "keep investigating" something everybody already knows the answer to.
Seems to me they should keep investigating until they've uncovered all the flagrant abuses of presidential power related to the whistleblower complaint.
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Old Today, 01:14 PM   #2057
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
SO Mulvaney just admitted it was a quid pro quo.
Seemingly avoided any mention of Biden and said DNC server comments were in the past.

Kinda wonder if the GOP is on board with this strategy.
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Old Today, 01:16 PM   #2058
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Old Today, 01:21 PM   #2059
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm sure that means the hammer is going to fall any day now.

Or the Democrats will find another excuse to "keep investigating" something everybody already knows the answer to.

Let's see which happens.
What I hope is that the slo-mo hammer fall keeps driving him to greater heights (or depths) of tongue-chewing babbling insanity. And of course that a few key people actually notice.
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Old Today, 01:22 PM   #2060
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Seems to me they should keep investigating until they've uncovered all the flagrant abuses of presidential power related to the whistleblower complaint.
There's an issue with that as new ones occur every day.
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