Just when you thought the New Age was dead...

Bikewer · 28th December 2017, 06:28 AM

On Quora yesterday, someone asked about “lightworkers”. Unfamiliar with the term, I looked it up:

“A Lightworker is anyone who devotes their life to being a bright light in the world. They understand that their actions (no matter how big or small) have the potential to raise the vibration of the planet. A Lightworker soul is awake, conscious that their presence matters and that they are part of something that is bigger than them.”

From just one of many web pages:

https://rebeccacampbell.me/what-is-a-lightworker/

Seems that much like “Indigo Children”, these folks see themselves as special and as generally raising the tone and quality of humanity.....

At least, the idea seems relatively harmless.

bytewizard · 28th December 2017, 11:20 AM

Unemployed, dark skinned people might consider this racism.

Shepherd · 28th December 2017, 12:15 PM

When my neighbors' baby started turning blue, I told them they should be excited about that, that it looked like they were going to be having an indigo child after all!

(Okay, that didn't really happen. I just can't help myself from being a goof sometimes. Hopefully, and I mean for everyone involved, I'll never have to find out what I would actually say under such circumstance)

P.J. Denyer · 28th December 2017, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

On Quora yesterday, someone asked about “lightworkers”. Unfamiliar with the term, I looked it up:

“A Lightworker is anyone who devotes their life to being a bright light in the world. They understand that their actions (no matter how big or small) have the potential to raise the vibration of the planet. A Lightworker soul is awake, conscious that their presence matters and that they are part of something that is bigger than them.”

From just one of many web pages:

https://rebeccacampbell.me/what-is-a-lightworker/

Seems that much like “Indigo Children”, these folks see themselves as special and as generally raising the tone and quality of humanity.....

At least, the idea seems relatively harmless.

So it's a bit lame prayer then, all the smug self satisfaction of doing something but without the unwanted effort.

Belgian thought · 28th December 2017, 03:41 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...nemployment-un

This New Age nonsense will grow, sadly.

Humans will have too much time on their hands and thus more time to come up with bollocks.

Similar to when we went from hunter gatherer - say 10 humans to hunt 1 animal, scroll on to agriculture, 1 human for 10 animals leaving 9 humans with nothing to do but come up with ideas justifying (themselves) and controlling the poor sod looking after the 10 animals - and building palaces, pyramids and so forth keeping some of the less intelligent 9 busy.

Come the robots - this will be the same. Us skeptics will again be deemed as the evil ones etc.

Mark my words

Apathia · 28th December 2017, 04:19 PM

Who can shine the brightest?

https://www.the-brights.net/movement/

Rebecca Campbell: Dim
Rebecca Watson: Bright

dann · 29th December 2017, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by bytewizard

Unemployed, dark skinned people might consider this racism.

The Vikings called black Africans blåmænd: blue men.

fuelair · 29th December 2017, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by Shepherd

When my neighbors' baby started turning blue, I told them they should be excited about that, that it looked like they were going to be having an indigo child after all!

(Okay, that didn't really happen. I just can't help myself from being a goof sometimes. Hopefully, and I mean for everyone involved, I'll never have to find out what I would actually say under such circumstance)

CPR and fast!!! Prior to it happening, get a CPR course and pay special attention to the part about CPR for babies and also young children. That was my specialty back when my wife and I did Red Cross CPR classes!!!!

Porpoise of Life · 29th December 2017, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by dann

The Vikings called black Africans blåmænd: blue men.

Blue Men Group is a modern minstrel show?

Hlafordlaes · 29th December 2017, 07:13 AM

Woo Age is best formulated while standing on your head or hands. Fitting prelude to the grandstanding. What's not to like?

dann · 29th December 2017, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life

Blue Men Group is a modern minstrel show?

Are you sure they're not African Americans in blue costumes, like Zoe Saldana in Avatar?

I'm also confused by the Smurfs. I mean, at first glance their adversary Gargamel appears to be Caucasian, but what about the Black Smurfs, then? Maybe it's true that Smurfette is Aryan, Gargamel Jewish and the Smurfs are anti-Semitic.

SOdhner · 29th December 2017, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

“A Lightworker is anyone who devotes their life to being a bright light in the world. They understand that their actions (no matter how big or small) have the potential...

Well this sounds nice. Nothing objectionable here.

Originally Posted by Bikewer

...to raise the vibration of the planet.

Wait what?

Man, I hope we don't get too many of these guys or they'll start causing earthquakes.

philkensebben · 29th December 2017, 10:27 AM

I've seen a couple of friends (or friends of friends)on facebook signing off with 'Love and Light'. Are they lightworkers or does it have something to do with that?

P.J. Denyer · 29th December 2017, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by SOdhner

Well this sounds nice. Nothing objectionable here.

Wait what?

Man, I hope we don't get too many of these guys or they'll start causing earthquakes.

Yeah, vibration is a pretty simple word to be incapable of understanding.

Hellbound · 29th December 2017, 06:25 PM

I plan to be the brightest lightworker ever. I'll outshine them all.

I just need a bit more uranium...

Scorpion · 30th December 2017, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by SOdhner

Well this sounds nice. Nothing objectionable here.

Wait what?

Man, I hope we don't get too many of these guys or they'll start causing earthquakes.

According to occult theology there are many higher planes of experience some of which interpenetrate this world, and we are surrounded by psychic energy. It is a dark cloud of negative energy caused by all the wars and suffering. Spiritualist mediums always start a service giving evidence of survival with a prayer to raise the vibrations of the church, or they might open themselves to negative energy.

Pixel42 · 30th December 2017, 11:33 PM

"occult theology" = "ignorant superstition"

P.J. Denyer · 31st December 2017, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Scorpion

According to occult theology there are many higher planes of experience some of which interpenetrate this world, and we are surrounded by psychic energy. It is a dark cloud of negative energy caused by all the wars and suffering. Spiritualist mediums always start a service giving evidence of survival with a prayer to raise the vibrations of the church, or they might open themselves to negative energy.

The highlighted words words are being used in ways that make no sense. Co-opting words with scientific meaning does not science (or meaning) make.

The Sparrow · 31st December 2017, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

The highlighted words words are being used in ways that make no sense. Co-opting words with scientific meaning does not science (or meaning) make.

Duuuuuuude! ENERGY!!!!!! It's like everywhere man.

P.J. Denyer · 31st December 2017, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by The Sparrow

Duuuuuuude! ENERGY!!!!!! It's like everywhere man.

Presumably in equal quantity to the "negative energy"

P.J. Denyer · 31st December 2017, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

"occult theology" = "ignorant superstition"

Or "random ********" signifying nothing.

Not totally dissimilar to any other theology really. Except that it doesn't generally involve learning more useful subjects tangentally.

Hellbound · 2nd January 2018, 07:54 AM

Quote:

'Tis a tale told by an idiot...full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

baron · 2nd January 2018, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

The highlighted words words are being used in ways that make no sense. Co-opting words with scientific meaning does not science (or meaning) make.

I'm not condoning the use of this terminology, but generally speaking when spiritual types talk of positive and negative energy they are talking about order and chaos or, scientifically speaking, degrees of entropy. Things that promote local entropy are to be avoided (negative energy), things that reduce local entropy should be embraced (positive energy). Which is all very logical, but don't ask me about auras.

Hellbound · 2nd January 2018, 09:26 AM

Um, but everything increases entropy.

Seems a bit of a losing game, if you ask me.

baron · 2nd January 2018, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Hellbound

Um, but everything increases entropy.

Seems a bit of a losing game, if you ask me.

"local"

Hellbound · 2nd January 2018, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by baron

"local"

Yeah, but that flies in the face of the whole "universal consciousness/everything connected" type thinking that's part of new age, as well.

Not that I really expect it to be internally consistent...just take issue with the description of it as logical. It's only logical if you base it on faulty assumptions.

ETA: Not to mention, new age tends to push ideas about peace and happiness for everyone, and that focus on local (necessarily increasing negative energy elsewhere) also contradicts those ideals. "I've got my positive energy, screw those other guys that have to deal with the negative entropy I've created in their pond". I think relating it to some logical idea of entropy is giving the beliefs too much credit.

ETA2: Or more concisely, I think you're right in the observation that order=positive entropy/chaos=negative entropy, but I don't think the understanding of local vs. global even occurs. They assume the local is all there is, and that an increase there is a universal increase.

baron · 2nd January 2018, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Hellbound

Yeah, but that flies in the face of the whole "universal consciousness/everything connected" type thinking that's part of new age, as well.

Not that I really expect it to be internally consistent...just take issue with the description of it as logical. It's only logical if you base it on faulty assumptions.

ETA: Not to mention, new age tends to push ideas about peace and happiness for everyone, and that focus on local (necessarily increasing negative energy elsewhere) also contradicts those ideals. "I've got my positive energy, screw those other guys that have to deal with the negative entropy I've created in their pond". I think relating it to some logical idea of entropy is giving the beliefs too much credit.

ETA2: Or more concisely, I think you're right in the observation that order=positive entropy/chaos=negative entropy, but I don't think the understanding of local vs. global even occurs. They assume the local is all there is, and that an increase there is a universal increase.

It's very true that whilst 99% of the spiritually inclined trot off these phrases without pausing to even think what they're saying, a minority give their positions some consideration and there may be merit in their ideas. Professionals such as Jung, for example, philosophers like Spinoza, even mystics such as Gurdjieff, they are all worth reading.

steenkh · 2nd January 2018, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by baron

I'm not condoning the use of this terminology, but generally speaking when spiritual types talk of positive and negative energy they are talking about order and chaos or, scientifically speaking, degrees of entropy.

I don't think so. In my experience, positive energy is when you agree with them, and negative energy is when you don't.

P.J. Denyer · 2nd January 2018, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by baron

I'm not condoning the use of this terminology, but generally speaking when spiritual types talk of positive and negative energy they are talking about order and chaos or, scientifically speaking, degrees of entropy. Things that promote local entropy are to be avoided (negative energy), things that reduce local entropy should be embraced (positive energy). Which is all very logical, but don't ask me about auras.

I'd be interested to hear their definition of entropy!

I'm not implying you are in this category, but there's something about woo slingers confidently espousing rubbish as they confidently throw out words like energy, vibration, quantum etc etc etc that actually have meanings that they obviously can't be bothered to understand really gets under my skin!

dann · 2nd January 2018, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by steenkh

I don't think so. In my experience, positive energy is when you agree with them, and negative energy is when you don't.

Definitely. When they talk about energy, it never has anything to do with energy, when they talk about vibrations and frequencies, it never has anything to do with vibration and frequency, and when they talk about quantum, well, it goes without saying ...
Jung is good for one thing only: In many ways he was one of the founders of new age. Synchronicity, for instance, is a marvelous invention. It's hard enough to make some people understand that correlation is not causation. Jung was actually able to convince people that even obvious coincidences had meaning, to the extent that it is self-evident to many new agers. Jung still tried to argue that the concept was real, which makes the idea much more vulnerable.

xjx388 · 4th January 2018, 12:39 PM

SPIRITUAL frequencies, vibrations, etc. I have a nephew who talks in these terms quite frequently. He is always trying to get to the next level of existence by raising his vibrational frequency. He accomplishes this by use of meditation and psychedelics. He's one of those guys that has seen the machine elves.

I think this is the next vibration of new age thinking. The New Age is dead; long live the New New Age.

wasapi · 13th January 2018, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

On Quora yesterday, someone asked about “lightworkers”. Unfamiliar with the term, I looked it up:

“A Lightworker is anyone who devotes their life to being a bright light in the world. They understand that their actions (no matter how big or small) have the potential to raise the vibration of the planet. A Lightworker soul is awake, conscious that their presence matters and that they are part of something that is bigger than them.”

From just one of many web pages:

https://rebeccacampbell.me/what-is-a-lightworker/

Seems that much like “Indigo Children”, these folks see themselves as special and as generally raising the tone and quality of humanity.....

At least, the idea seems relatively harmless.

'

I feel 'enlightened' after glancing at the link and learning that they aren't all people "wearing tie-dye's" or "looking like hippies.

You made a good point about their need to feel "special" or have a child that is "special." They refer to their or their children as having "a gift". In the attempt to be unique, they just become yet another waco.

As I have mentioned before, I live in a town voted "most liberal" in the USA. They are everywhere. The new age healers, light workers, indigo children, people 'gifted' and can communicate with dead souls, those who try to sell crystals with magical implications. Once, walking past people in the town park I over heard this conversation; "I am finally able to give myself permission to open my heart to honesty". WTH that means, I have no idea.

Checkmite · 14th January 2018, 01:06 AM

I don't think "Lightworker" is all that new - it definitely rings a bell or two. I want to say that I saw them mentioned in "Demon-Haunted World" (I think Sagan transcribed some letters he had received and one of them used the word?) but I don't have a copy anymore so I cannot check.

Maksutov · 14th January 2018, 09:43 PM

The only thing "new" about "New Age" is the packaging. Rebranding with new buzzwords, slogans, catchy names. It's an industry that is endlessly updating and reinventing its products. It's also a subculture that consumes "New Age" products and services. But really, many elements are traceable back at least as far as the Spiritualists in the mid 1800s.

Darat · 15th January 2018, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

I don't think "Lightworker" is all that new - it definitely rings a bell or two. I want to say that I saw them mentioned in "Demon-Haunted World" (I think Sagan transcribed some letters he had received and one of them used the word?) but I don't have a copy anymore so I cannot check.

Certainly has a ring of familiarity - I have a vague recollection, so may have cropped up in Denis Wheatley's supernatural books?

luchog · 16th January 2018, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Maksutov

The only thing "new" about "New Age" is the packaging. Rebranding with new buzzwords, slogans, catchy names. It's an industry that is endlessly updating and reinventing its products. It's also a subculture that consumes "New Age" products and services. But really, many elements are traceable back at least as far as the Spiritualists in the mid 1800s.

And it has never gone away, there's always some new version of it, sometimes dressed up in pseudo-scientific jargon, sometimes pure religious nonsense, sometimes a weird blend of both.

The "positive thinking" movement that has so badly infested American culture (and increasingly world culture) is a direct outgrowth of New Age thinking. And anyone who has been around here for a while should remember all the hype about The Secret a few years ago, aka the "law of attraction", another big bunch of New Age woo.

theprestige · 16th January 2018, 09:31 AM

I'm sorry, but every time I see the thread title, my reaction is, "why on earth would I have thought new age was dead?"

CORed · 19th January 2018, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

"occult theology" = "ignorant superstition"

You can remove the word "occult" and it's still true.

28th December 2017, 06:28 AM	#1
Bikewer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 12,266	Just when you thought the New Age was dead... On Quora yesterday, someone asked about “lightworkers”. Unfamiliar with the term, I looked it up: “A Lightworker is anyone who devotes their life to being a bright light in the world. They understand that their actions (no matter how big or small) have the potential to raise the vibration of the planet. A Lightworker soul is awake, conscious that their presence matters and that they are part of something that is bigger than them.” From just one of many web pages: https://rebeccacampbell.me/what-is-a-lightworker/ Seems that much like “Indigo Children”, these folks see themselves as special and as generally raising the tone and quality of humanity..... At least, the idea seems relatively harmless.

28th December 2017, 12:15 PM	#3
Shepherd Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 253	When my neighbors' baby started turning blue, I told them they should be excited about that, that it looked like they were going to be having an indigo child after all! (Okay, that didn't really happen. I just can't help myself from being a goof sometimes. Hopefully, and I mean for everyone involved, I'll never have to find out what I would actually say under such circumstance)
Shepherd Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 253

28th December 2017, 02:46 PM	#4
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,207	Originally Posted by Bikewer On Quora yesterday, someone asked about “lightworkers”. Unfamiliar with the term, I looked it up: “A Lightworker is anyone who devotes their life to being a bright light in the world. They understand that their actions (no matter how big or small) have the potential to raise the vibration of the planet. A Lightworker soul is awake, conscious that their presence matters and that they are part of something that is bigger than them.” From just one of many web pages: https://rebeccacampbell.me/what-is-a-lightworker/ Seems that much like “Indigo Children”, these folks see themselves as special and as generally raising the tone and quality of humanity..... At least, the idea seems relatively harmless. So it's a bit lame prayer then, all the smug self satisfaction of doing something but without the unwanted effort.
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,207	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

28th December 2017, 03:41 PM	#5
Belgian thought Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,896	https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...nemployment-un This New Age nonsense will grow, sadly. Humans will have too much time on their hands and thus more time to come up with bollocks. Similar to when we went from hunter gatherer - say 10 humans to hunt 1 animal, scroll on to agriculture, 1 human for 10 animals leaving 9 humans with nothing to do but come up with ideas justifying (themselves) and controlling the poor sod looking after the 10 animals - and building palaces, pyramids and so forth keeping some of the less intelligent 9 busy. Come the robots - this will be the same. Us skeptics will again be deemed as the evil ones etc. Mark my words
	__________________ ... er, that's it

28th December 2017, 04:19 PM	#6
Apathia Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 4,592	Who can shine the brightest? https://www.the-brights.net/movement/ Rebecca Campbell: Dim Rebecca Watson: Bright
	__________________ "At the Supreme Court level where we work, 90 percent of any decision is emotional. The rational part of us supplies the reasons for supporting our predilections." Justice William O. Douglas "Humans aren't rational creatures but rationalizing creatures." Author Unknown Last edited by Apathia; 28th December 2017 at 04:30 PM.

28th December 2017, 11:20 AM	#2
bytewizard Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: In the woods Posts: 1,869	Unemployed, dark skinned people might consider this racism.

29th December 2017, 05:33 AM	#7
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 5,234	Originally Posted by bytewizard Unemployed, dark skinned people might consider this racism. The Vikings called black Africans blåmænd: blue men.
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 5,234	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

29th December 2017, 06:54 AM	#8
fuelair Suspended Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 57,679	Originally Posted by Shepherd When my neighbors' baby started turning blue, I told them they should be excited about that, that it looked like they were going to be having an indigo child after all! (Okay, that didn't really happen. I just can't help myself from being a goof sometimes. Hopefully, and I mean for everyone involved, I'll never have to find out what I would actually say under such circumstance) CPR and fast!!! Prior to it happening, get a CPR course and pay special attention to the part about CPR for babies and also young children. That was my specialty back when my wife and I did Red Cross CPR classes!!!!
fuelair Suspended Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 57,679

29th December 2017, 07:03 AM	#9
Porpoise of Life Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 4,332	Originally Posted by dann The Vikings called black Africans blåmænd: blue men. Blue Men Group is a modern minstrel show?

29th December 2017, 07:13 AM	#10
Hlafordlaes Disorder of Kilopi Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: State of Flux Posts: 8,191	Woo Age is best formulated while standing on your head or hands. Fitting prelude to the grandstanding. What's not to like?
	__________________ Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion. Spends that time swapping avatars if in August. Summer penance for overeating: His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp

29th December 2017, 08:19 AM	#11
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 5,234	Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life Blue Men Group is a modern minstrel show? Are you sure they're not African Americans in blue costumes, like Zoe Saldana in Avatar? I'm also confused by the Smurfs. I mean, at first glance their adversary Gargamel appears to be Caucasian, but what about the Black Smurfs, then? Maybe it's true that Smurfette is Aryan, Gargamel Jewish and the Smurfs are anti-Semitic.
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 5,234	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

29th December 2017, 09:25 AM	#12
SOdhner Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,722	Originally Posted by Bikewer “A Lightworker is anyone who devotes their life to being a bright light in the world. They understand that their actions (no matter how big or small) have the potential... Well this sounds nice. Nothing objectionable here. Originally Posted by Bikewer ...to raise the vibration of the planet. Wait what? Man, I hope we don't get too many of these guys or they'll start causing earthquakes.

29th December 2017, 10:27 AM	#13
philkensebben Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,951	I've seen a couple of friends (or friends of friends)on facebook signing off with 'Love and Light'. Are they lightworkers or does it have something to do with that?

29th December 2017, 02:28 PM	#14
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,207	Originally Posted by SOdhner Well this sounds nice. Nothing objectionable here. Wait what? Man, I hope we don't get too many of these guys or they'll start causing earthquakes. Yeah, vibration is a pretty simple word to be incapable of understanding.
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,207	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

29th December 2017, 06:25 PM	#15
Hellbound Merchant of Doom Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day... Posts: 12,475	I plan to be the brightest lightworker ever. I'll outshine them all. I just need a bit more uranium...

30th December 2017, 05:21 PM	#16
Scorpion Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,273	Originally Posted by SOdhner Well this sounds nice. Nothing objectionable here. Wait what? Man, I hope we don't get too many of these guys or they'll start causing earthquakes. According to occult theology there are many higher planes of experience some of which interpenetrate this world, and we are surrounded by psychic energy. It is a dark cloud of negative energy caused by all the wars and suffering. Spiritualist mediums always start a service giving evidence of survival with a prayer to raise the vibrations of the church, or they might open themselves to negative energy.
	__________________ You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God. Sri Ramakrishna Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six. Leo Tolstoy

30th December 2017, 11:33 PM	#17
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 10,442	"occult theology" = "ignorant superstition"
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

31st December 2017, 08:25 AM	#18
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,207	Originally Posted by Scorpion According to occult theology there are many higher planes of experience some of which interpenetrate this world, and we are surrounded by psychic energy. It is a dark cloud of negative energy caused by all the wars and suffering. Spiritualist mediums always start a service giving evidence of survival with a prayer to raise the vibrations of the church, or they might open themselves to negative energy. The highlighted words words are being used in ways that make no sense. Co-opting words with scientific meaning does not science (or meaning) make.
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,207	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

31st December 2017, 09:04 AM	#19
The Sparrow Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Central Canada Posts: 1,477	Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer The highlighted words words are being used in ways that make no sense. Co-opting words with scientific meaning does not science (or meaning) make. Duuuuuuude! ENERGY!!!!!! It's like everywhere man.

31st December 2017, 09:37 AM	#20
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,207	Originally Posted by The Sparrow Duuuuuuude! ENERGY!!!!!! It's like everywhere man. Presumably in equal quantity to the "negative energy"
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,207	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

31st December 2017, 09:43 AM	#21
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,207	Originally Posted by Pixel42 "occult theology" = "ignorant superstition" Or "random ********" signifying nothing. Not totally dissimilar to any other theology really. Except that it doesn't generally involve learning more useful subjects tangentally.
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,207	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

2nd January 2018, 07:54 AM	#22
Hellbound Merchant of Doom Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day... Posts: 12,475	Quote: 'Tis a tale told by an idiot...full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

2nd January 2018, 08:26 AM	#23
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,045	Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer The highlighted words words are being used in ways that make no sense. Co-opting words with scientific meaning does not science (or meaning) make. I'm not condoning the use of this terminology, but generally speaking when spiritual types talk of positive and negative energy they are talking about order and chaos or, scientifically speaking, degrees of entropy. Things that promote local entropy are to be avoided (negative energy), things that reduce local entropy should be embraced (positive energy). Which is all very logical, but don't ask me about auras.
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,045	__________________ "I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"

2nd January 2018, 09:26 AM	#24
Hellbound Merchant of Doom Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day... Posts: 12,475	Um, but everything increases entropy. Seems a bit of a losing game, if you ask me.

2nd January 2018, 09:28 AM	#25
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,045	Originally Posted by Hellbound Um, but everything increases entropy. Seems a bit of a losing game, if you ask me. "local"
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,045	__________________ "I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"

2nd January 2018, 10:13 AM	#26
Hellbound Merchant of Doom Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day... Posts: 12,475	Originally Posted by baron "local" Yeah, but that flies in the face of the whole "universal consciousness/everything connected" type thinking that's part of new age, as well. Not that I really expect it to be internally consistent...just take issue with the description of it as logical. It's only logical if you base it on faulty assumptions. ETA: Not to mention, new age tends to push ideas about peace and happiness for everyone, and that focus on local (necessarily increasing negative energy elsewhere) also contradicts those ideals. "I've got my positive energy, screw those other guys that have to deal with the negative entropy I've created in their pond". I think relating it to some logical idea of entropy is giving the beliefs too much credit. ETA2: Or more concisely, I think you're right in the observation that order=positive entropy/chaos=negative entropy, but I don't think the understanding of local vs. global even occurs. They assume the local is all there is, and that an increase there is a universal increase.
	Last edited by Hellbound; 2nd January 2018 at 10:29 AM.

2nd January 2018, 11:19 AM	#27
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,045	Originally Posted by Hellbound Yeah, but that flies in the face of the whole "universal consciousness/everything connected" type thinking that's part of new age, as well. Not that I really expect it to be internally consistent...just take issue with the description of it as logical. It's only logical if you base it on faulty assumptions. ETA: Not to mention, new age tends to push ideas about peace and happiness for everyone, and that focus on local (necessarily increasing negative energy elsewhere) also contradicts those ideals. "I've got my positive energy, screw those other guys that have to deal with the negative entropy I've created in their pond". I think relating it to some logical idea of entropy is giving the beliefs too much credit. ETA2: Or more concisely, I think you're right in the observation that order=positive entropy/chaos=negative entropy, but I don't think the understanding of local vs. global even occurs. They assume the local is all there is, and that an increase there is a universal increase. It's very true that whilst 99% of the spiritually inclined trot off these phrases without pausing to even think what they're saying, a minority give their positions some consideration and there may be merit in their ideas. Professionals such as Jung, for example, philosophers like Spinoza, even mystics such as Gurdjieff, they are all worth reading.
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,045	__________________ "I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"

2nd January 2018, 01:19 PM	#28
steenkh Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 5,340	Originally Posted by baron I'm not condoning the use of this terminology, but generally speaking when spiritual types talk of positive and negative energy they are talking about order and chaos or, scientifically speaking, degrees of entropy. I don't think so. In my experience, positive energy is when you agree with them, and negative energy is when you don't.
	__________________ Steen -- Jack of all trades - master of none!

2nd January 2018, 02:24 PM	#29
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,207	Originally Posted by baron I'm not condoning the use of this terminology, but generally speaking when spiritual types talk of positive and negative energy they are talking about order and chaos or, scientifically speaking, degrees of entropy. Things that promote local entropy are to be avoided (negative energy), things that reduce local entropy should be embraced (positive energy). Which is all very logical, but don't ask me about auras. I'd be interested to hear their definition of entropy! I'm not implying you are in this category, but there's something about woo slingers confidently espousing rubbish as they confidently throw out words like energy, vibration, quantum etc etc etc that actually have meanings that they obviously can't be bothered to understand really gets under my skin!
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,207	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

2nd January 2018, 03:55 PM	#30
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 5,234	Originally Posted by steenkh I don't think so. In my experience, positive energy is when you agree with them, and negative energy is when you don't. Definitely. When they talk about energy, it never has anything to do with energy, when they talk about vibrations and frequencies, it never has anything to do with vibration and frequency, and when they talk about quantum, well, it goes without saying ... Jung is good for one thing only: In many ways he was one of the founders of new age. Synchronicity, for instance, is a marvelous invention. It's hard enough to make some people understand that correlation is not causation. Jung was actually able to convince people that even obvious coincidences had meaning, to the extent that it is self-evident to many new agers. Jung still tried to argue that the concept was real, which makes the idea much more vulnerable.
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 5,234	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

4th January 2018, 12:39 PM	#31
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 6,308	SPIRITUAL frequencies, vibrations, etc. I have a nephew who talks in these terms quite frequently. He is always trying to get to the next level of existence by raising his vibrational frequency. He accomplishes this by use of meditation and psychedelics. He's one of those guys that has seen the machine elves. I think this is the next vibration of new age thinking. The New Age is dead; long live the New New Age.
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 6,308	__________________ Hello. Last edited by xjx388; 4th January 2018 at 12:40 PM.

13th January 2018, 06:52 PM	#32
wasapi Illuminator Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,663	Originally Posted by Bikewer On Quora yesterday, someone asked about “lightworkers”. Unfamiliar with the term, I looked it up: “A Lightworker is anyone who devotes their life to being a bright light in the world. They understand that their actions (no matter how big or small) have the potential to raise the vibration of the planet. A Lightworker soul is awake, conscious that their presence matters and that they are part of something that is bigger than them.” From just one of many web pages: https://rebeccacampbell.me/what-is-a-lightworker/ Seems that much like “Indigo Children”, these folks see themselves as special and as generally raising the tone and quality of humanity..... At least, the idea seems relatively harmless. ' I feel 'enlightened' after glancing at the link and learning that they aren't all people "wearing tie-dye's" or "looking like hippies. You made a good point about their need to feel "special" or have a child that is "special." They refer to their or their children as having "a gift". In the attempt to be unique, they just become yet another waco. As I have mentioned before, I live in a town voted "most liberal" in the USA. They are everywhere. The new age healers, light workers, indigo children, people 'gifted' and can communicate with dead souls, those who try to sell crystals with magical implications. Once, walking past people in the town park I over heard this conversation; "I am finally able to give myself permission to open my heart to honesty". WTH that means, I have no idea.
wasapi Illuminator Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,663	__________________ Julia

14th January 2018, 01:06 AM	#33
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 22,100	I don't think "Lightworker" is all that new - it definitely rings a bell or two. I want to say that I saw them mentioned in "Demon-Haunted World" (I think Sagan transcribed some letters he had received and one of them used the word?) but I don't have a copy anymore so I cannot check.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

14th January 2018, 09:43 PM	#34
Maksutov Scholar Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 104	The only thing "new" about "New Age" is the packaging. Rebranding with new buzzwords, slogans, catchy names. It's an industry that is endlessly updating and reinventing its products. It's also a subculture that consumes "New Age" products and services. But really, many elements are traceable back at least as far as the Spiritualists in the mid 1800s.
Maksutov Scholar Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 104

15th January 2018, 04:33 AM	#35
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 82,520	Originally Posted by Checkmite I don't think "Lightworker" is all that new - it definitely rings a bell or two. I want to say that I saw them mentioned in "Demon-Haunted World" (I think Sagan transcribed some letters he had received and one of them used the word?) but I don't have a copy anymore so I cannot check. Certainly has a ring of familiarity - I have a vague recollection, so may have cropped up in Denis Wheatley's supernatural books?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you