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Old 27th December 2017, 03:32 PM   #1
kattheconspiracist
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aliens

whats up! ive been playing with the question "are we alone in the universe" for the past 3 nights, and honestly the concept of aliens is sick af. im hella curious so if youve got any interesting factoids drop them on this thread please!
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Old 27th December 2017, 03:42 PM   #2
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To me the aliens seem like eccentric starving artists. Not really selling enough to make a good living.
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Old 27th December 2017, 05:00 PM   #3
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I use facts not factoids, but while there is so far no evidence of alien life (semi-terrestrial/non-terrestrial) the chemistry for it and likely other necessary conditions for it are very likely to exist in other places out in this and other galaxies. No way to verify same yet though.
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Old 27th December 2017, 06:22 PM   #4
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When you think about aliens visiting earth you have to get past the speed of light; it's not just a good idea, it's the law. Aliens would have to be long lived, be on generational ships, or have figured out a way around the light speed barrier. If the aliens lived in something close to earth gravity, they'd have to have a way to simulate that on their vessels. When you consider all the technical difficulties with space travel, it's reasonable to conclude that it's possible but unlikely that we have been visited by aliens.

There would have to be some big payoff to spending all those resources to visit the earth and it's probably more than the data from anal probes. Are there other forms of life in the universe? Almost certainly. However, the distance between planets containing life is, to say the least, a daunting barrier.
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Old 27th December 2017, 06:49 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
When you think about aliens visiting earth you have to get past the speed of light; it's not just a good idea, it's the law. Aliens would have to be long lived, be on generational ships, or have figured out a way around the light speed barrier. If the aliens lived in something close to earth gravity, they'd have to have a way to simulate that on their vessels. When you consider all the technical difficulties with space travel, it's reasonable to conclude that it's possible but unlikely that we have been visited by aliens.

There would have to be some big payoff to spending all those resources to visit the earth and it's probably more than the data from anal probes. Are there other forms of life in the universe? Almost certainly. However, the distance between planets containing life is, to say the least, a daunting barrier.
If you travel fast enough, you could light-years in days time, from the frame of reference of the crew.
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Old 27th December 2017, 11:11 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
When you think about aliens visiting earth you have to get past the speed of light; it's not just a good idea, it's the law. Aliens would have to be long lived, be on generational ships, or have figured out a way around the light speed barrier. If the aliens lived in something close to earth gravity, they'd have to have a way to simulate that on their vessels. When you consider all the technical difficulties with space travel, it's reasonable to conclude that it's possible but unlikely that we have been visited by aliens.

There would have to be some big payoff to spending all those resources to visit the earth and it's probably more than the data from anal probes. Are there other forms of life in the universe? Almost certainly. However, the distance between planets containing life is, to say the least, a daunting barrier.
...or send 'robotic' ships with impressive AI or even simpler probes - if they can figure how to build machines that can work for centuries.
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Old 28th December 2017, 12:20 AM   #7
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I heard President Trump wanted them kept out, or something.
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Old 28th December 2017, 04:09 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by kattheconspiracist View Post
whats up! ive been playing with the question "are we alone in the universe" for the past 3 nights, and honestly the concept of aliens is sick af. im hella curious so if youve got any interesting factoids drop them on this thread please!
Hella cool topic, broheim! Gnarly.
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Old 28th December 2017, 05:09 AM   #9
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I don't see why not, there is life on at least one planet in the universe so why not on others. It is unknown whether or not very specific conditions are required for abiogenesis but considering the number of stars with planets orbiting them in our galaxy and the galaxies beyond it isn't unreasonable to assume there isn't anything particularly unique about the little ball we exist on so even if a specific set of conditions are required it's likely those conditions exist elsewhere.
Something else I heard, though I could be wrong, is that there was a particular step from life on earth being simple single cells going on to more complex multicellular lifeforms capable of surviving and reproducing and that perhaps not being an inevitable outcome, however it does only have to occur once and in timescales of billions of years that may or may not be such a big ask, I dunno.
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Old 28th December 2017, 06:22 AM   #10
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Carl Sagan used to say that if even a fraction of the reported UFO sightings were actual spacecraft, then the Earth must singularly be the most popular tourist attraction in the galaxy.
Dozens of spacecraft of all different sorts buzzing around and scaring fighter pilots and displaying lots of bright, glowing lights at night...
All for no purpose whatever as far as anyone can tell. Not so much as a “take me to your leader!”

(Unless you’re one of the conspiracy types into the X-Files scenario...)
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Old 28th December 2017, 07:07 AM   #11
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Trump was saying something about building a big, beautiful wall to keep out the aliens who are 'bad hombres'.

And since aliens are so very smart, then I am sure that they will not bother to visit a place where they are not welcome.
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Old 28th December 2017, 07:08 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
Carl Sagan used to say that if even a fraction of the reported UFO sightings were actual spacecraft, then the Earth must singularly be the most popular tourist attraction in the galaxy.
Dozens of spacecraft of all different sorts buzzing around and scaring fighter pilots and displaying lots of bright, glowing lights at night...
All for no purpose whatever as far as anyone can tell. Not so much as a “take me to your leader!”

(Unless you’re one of the conspiracy types into the X-Files scenario...)

It was intended as a joke, but a Marvel comic once claimed that Humanity was the only species in the galaxy to create pizza, and attempts to reproduce it with non-terrestrial ingredients were nowhere near as good. Fortunately, there's a natural hyperspace nexus in Earth's solar system, so getting here is relatively easy.
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Old 28th December 2017, 04:29 PM   #13
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200AD explained it much better. It's a couple of alien juvenile delinquents in a stolen time flivver[sic] with the water cooler on their heads deliberately targeting recheck no one will believe as part of a scheme to get back at Judge Thorkwung for giving them community service.
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Old 28th December 2017, 04:35 PM   #14
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I just started watching this documentary called The X-Files. It says there are no space-aliens, but that they are a cover hoax for a vast human conspiracy to take over the world. (This is a factoid.)
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Old 28th December 2017, 09:32 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
200AD explained it much better. It's a couple of alien juvenile delinquents in a stolen time flivver[sic] with the water cooler on their heads deliberately targeting recheck no one will believe as part of a scheme to get back at Judge Thorkwung for giving them community service.
Teasers.

Teasers are usually rich kids with nothing to do. They cruise around
looking for planets which haven't made interstellar contact yet and buzz them.

They find some isolated spot with very few people around, then land right by some poor unsuspecting soul whom no one's ever going to believe and them strut up and down in front of him wearing silly antennae on their head and making beep beep noises.

Rather childish really.
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Old 28th December 2017, 09:41 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
200AD explained it much better. It's a couple of alien juvenile delinquents in a stolen time flivver[sic] with the water cooler on their heads deliberately targeting recheck no one will believe as part of a scheme to get back at Judge Thorkwung for giving them community service.
S'right.

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Old 29th December 2017, 08:38 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by kattheconspiracist View Post
whats up! ive been playing with the question "are we alone in the universe" for the past 3 nights, and honestly the concept of aliens is sick af. im hella curious so if youve got any interesting factoids drop them on this thread please!
It's virtually guaranteed that there is other life out there. Sadly there's no sign that we've been visited by any of it, nor do we know if any *intelligent* life will exist at the same time as us close enough to us for that to be a possibility.

So we're almost certainly not alone in the universe, but we might as well be. Here's a really clumsy analogy: It's like if you lived in Kansas and the only other human on earth lived in Australia and neither of you have any technology whatsoever. You're not just going to bump into each other, so it's not really any different from you being the only person on Earth.
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Old 29th December 2017, 08:56 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by SOdhner View Post
It's virtually guaranteed that there is other life out there.
It is?

I don't accept that that's the case.
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Old 29th December 2017, 09:18 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I don't accept that that's the case.
Our current estimates for how much universe is out there and how common reasonably habitable planets are would make it virtually guaranteed, yes. We could be wrong about some of our assumptions, but that's what the current scientific consensus is.
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Old 29th December 2017, 10:13 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by SOdhner View Post
We could be wrong about some of our assumptions...
Which is why there can't really be any meaningful guarantee. But armchair dudes can talk about guarantees as if they mean something.
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Old 29th December 2017, 10:18 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by SOdhner View Post
Our current estimates for how much universe is out there and how common reasonably habitable planets are would make it virtually guaranteed, yes. We could be wrong about some of our assumptions, but that's what the current scientific consensus is.

I don't think we've defined any of them as 'reasonably habitable' have we? I think we've just found some where water will probably be liquid.

We have no idea what conditions are required to cause abiogenesis and what conditions would prevent it. We have an incomplete picture of how life arose on planet earth and we have exactly one abiogenesis event to look at, a single data point proving nothing.


I would also note that we have found very few, if any, goldilocks zone planets around stars like ours. The last I read, we'd given up looking.


I really don't think we have any data at all upon which to in any way accurately assess the question 'is there other life out there?'
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Old 29th December 2017, 10:46 AM   #22
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I think the 20 odd points of the Fermi paradox explain every possibility of why we haven't and why will never see alien life forms from other planets.
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Old 29th December 2017, 10:59 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I would also note that we have found very few, if any, goldilocks zone planets around stars like ours. The last I read, we'd given up looking.
Quite the opposite.

Let's say there are 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the universe. The estimate of how many of those stars have planets in the habitable zone is 1/5 so that would be 200,000,000,000,000 (and some would have multiple planets). Of the solar systems we've gotten a really close look at, 100% had at least one planet with life (yes, I'm being snarky here and referring to Earth). But if we instead say this is a billion in one chance, there are still more than two hundred thousand planets out there with life on them.
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Old 29th December 2017, 11:12 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by SOdhner View Post
Quite the opposite.

Let's say there are 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the universe. The estimate of how many of those stars have planets in the habitable zone is 1/5 so that would be 200,000,000,000,000 (and some would have multiple planets).

This is not the same as 'reasonably habitable. Venus is in the habitable zone around Sol. Venus is in no way 'reasonably habitable' The same applies, to a lesser degree, to Mars.

Quote:
Of the solar systems we've gotten a really close look at, 100% had at least one planet with life (yes, I'm being snarky here and referring to Earth).
A single data point is useless for the assessment of odds.

Quote:
But if we instead say this is a billion in one chance, there are still more than two hundred thousand planets out there with life on them.
We can't say what the chance is. We have no reliable data upon which to assess the odds of abiogenesis anywhere other than earth, let alone the odds of multi-cellular life or conscious life occurring.
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Old 29th December 2017, 11:41 AM   #25
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In the end I'm just going to agree to disagree since I'm mainly basing this on having heard multiple experts say so and I don't feel like trying to dig up stuff to justify it since I honestly don't know exactly what they based their statements on. It's enough for me to know that people I believe know what they're talking about have said it. I'm not suggesting that should be enough to convince you of anything, it's just that I don't want to get into a big long thing in this particular thread.

One thing though:

Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
let alone the odds of multi-cellular life or conscious life occurring.
I'm not setting the bar very high, and am not suggesting there is currently *intelligent* life, though I wouldn't be surprised if there was and think there probably has been at some point and will be in the future.
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Old 29th December 2017, 11:47 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by SOdhner View Post
In the end I'm just going to agree to disagree since I'm mainly basing this on having heard multiple experts say so and I don't feel like trying to dig up stuff to justify it since I honestly don't know exactly what they based their statements on. It's enough for me to know that people I believe know what they're talking about have said it. I'm not suggesting that should be enough to convince you of anything, it's just that I don't want to get into a big long thing in this particular thread.

Fair enough
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Old 29th December 2017, 02:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
We can't say what the chance is. We have no reliable data upon which to assess the odds of abiogenesis anywhere other than earth, let alone the odds of multi-cellular life or conscious life occurring.
That is not exactly true. Amino acids are commonly referred to as the building blocks of life and we further know that these occur in abundance throughout the galaxy, if not the universe. That being the case, abiogenesis elsewhere is more likely. For that matter, how many times did abiogenesis occur on earth? Just the once? or are we simply the latest one that managed to survive?
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Old 31st December 2017, 07:16 AM   #28
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One of my Google News feeds points out this morning that the MIT Astsronomy lab has examined the old (1973) “Zookeeper” idea which has aliens keeping an apparently-benevolent watch over us, as we are too primitive at this point...

They credit this idea to MIT astronomer John Ball, but seems to me that particular rather fanciful notion has been floating around science fiction circles much longer than that...

One of those unfalsifiable claims, like guardian angels....

(I can’t post links from my news feed on my tablet... It’s on “Inquisitor”)

My thought is that alien life evolved to our level of intelligence may be exceedingly rare, given the age of the universe and the time it took for second-generation stars to form with complex, rocky planets, and then for life to start and eventually evolve to a state of technology.
The universe is 14 billion years old, and our (2nd generation) star is 5 billion.... And it took essentially all that time for us to arrive on the scene and become technological.

Some astronomers have proposed that ours in an “early maturing” system. It’s certainly possible that another race could “beat us to the punch”, but equally likely that they lag behind.
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Old 31st December 2017, 12:31 PM   #29
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I've had biology and marine biology classes in college, and the big question for me is:

Would we recognize an extraterrestrial if we saw one?

Humans are not the dominant species on this planet, bacteria is, and Arthropods come in second. So why are we expecting little green/gray men?

Then if you look at the earth's timeline Homosapien has been around for around 120,000 years, which is nothing. The Cretaceous Period lasted 79 million years, and while the dinosaurs are gone now the bacteria is still around. Plus, in those 79 million years none of the dinosaurs evolved to the point of making technology, or if they did they never felt the need to do so.

And so when we look up at the night sky and see starlight that is billions of years old the next question is:

What does technology that has advanced over one million, ten million, or even one billion years look like?

If you walked into Edison's lab and handed him an iPhone would he understand it without you telling him anything?

When we talk about aliens and their technology we tend to put a human stamp on it, and that is a mistake.

And no, I'm not a UFO guy.
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Old 31st December 2017, 12:44 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Would we recognize an extraterrestrial if we saw one?

Humans are not the dominant species on this planet, bacteria is, and Arthropods come in second. So why are we expecting little green/gray men?

Apropos to nothing, this is why, in my Champions campaign, there are no Star Trek aliens who look like humans with pointy ears or bumpy foreheads, or humans wearing animal masks. The aliens couldn't pass for human in a dark room. For example, there's a machine race that looks like a cloud of metal cubes inside a tornado made of lightning. There's another fungus-based race that could pass for an exotic potted plant if it retracted its limbs and kept still.
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Old 31st December 2017, 12:53 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
If you walked into Edison's lab and handed him an iPhone would he understand it without you telling him anything?
If that phone does what it does he might understand that it's some kind of communication device. Voices come from it and respond to his voice. Oh, a speaker and a microphone. I don't understand very much about it but it's a device that allows discussions between two talkers who aren't right next to each other.
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Old 31st December 2017, 05:27 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I've had biology and marine biology classes in college, and the big question for me is:

Would we recognize an extraterrestrial if we saw one?

Humans are not the dominant species on this planet, bacteria is, and Arthropods come in second. So why are we expecting little green/gray men?

Then if you look at the earth's timeline Homosapien has been around for around 120,000 years, which is nothing. The Cretaceous Period lasted 79 million years, and while the dinosaurs are gone now the bacteria is still around. Plus, in those 79 million years none of the dinosaurs evolved to the point of making technology, or if they did they never felt the need to do so.

And so when we look up at the night sky and see starlight that is billions of years old the next question is:

What does technology that has advanced over one million, ten million, or even one billion years look like?

If you walked into Edison's lab and handed him an iPhone would he understand it without you telling him anything?

When we talk about aliens and their technology we tend to put a human stamp on it, and that is a mistake.

And no, I'm not a UFO guy.
There are certain things that a Alien would need to get here. A complex brain that would allow for higher intelligence needed to understand and solve the problems of space travel and also having the ability to learn and pass on information. A form of communication and the ability to store information for future Generations to learn from. Some way to manipulate their environment and allow for them to craft the tools that would be required to build craft to get here. And some sort of societal basis to be able to have the resources and systems in place to build the craft to get here.

You also need to have a planetary environment that can support them. For instance if you have an insect race then you'd need to have a planet with high oxygen, similar to the Carboniferous Era on Earth and they would likely find it hard to breath if they came here.

I'm also unsure as to how well a hive mind would work towards becoming a space faring species due to the greater centralization, which tends to lead to a lack of expertise and innovation.

In the end, I would expect that while they might be quite different to ourselves, that when it comes to a space faring species visiting Earth, then yes, we would be able to recognise them as such.

Where it might be harder is is we were trying to identify a intergalactic stowaway such as an alien cockroach or bacterium left behind by alien visitors.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 12:21 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
Apropos to nothing, this is why, in my Champions campaign, there are no Star Trek aliens who look like humans with pointy ears or bumpy foreheads, or humans wearing animal masks. The aliens couldn't pass for human in a dark room. For example, there's a machine race that looks like a cloud of metal cubes inside a tornado made of lightning. There's another fungus-based race that could pass for an exotic potted plant if it retracted its limbs and kept still.

I hope the special effects budget for your prospective movie is huge
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Old 5th January 2018, 11:10 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
If you travel fast enough, you could light-years in days time, from the frame of reference of the crew.
Though if the crew could only tolerate 1g acceleration for long periods, you'd need to add a year of speeding up and a year of slowing down.
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Old 5th January 2018, 11:21 AM   #35
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I will bet $11.95 that the OP already has a well-defined point of view from which he cannot be dissuaded.
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Old 7th January 2018, 11:54 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
When you think about aliens visiting earth you have to get past the speed of light; it's not just a good idea, it's the law. Aliens would have to be long lived, be on generational ships, or have figured out a way around the light speed barrier. If the aliens lived in something close to earth gravity, they'd have to have a way to simulate that on their vessels. When you consider all the technical difficulties with space travel, it's reasonable to conclude that it's possible but unlikely that we have been visited by aliens.

There would have to be some big payoff to spending all those resources to visit the earth and it's probably more than the data from anal probes. Are there other forms of life in the universe? Almost certainly. However, the distance between planets containing life is, to say the least, a daunting barrier.
Based on the adjusted by me above thing, remember the apparent intelligence level of those who have openly claimed to have been in the aliens' grasp!!!!
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Old 7th January 2018, 11:57 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by IIIClovisIII View Post
I heard President Trump wanted them kept out, or something.
Clearly he is afraid that if they probe him anally they will find out there is nothing in there but fecal matter!!!!!!
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Old 7th January 2018, 12:00 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I will bet $11.95 that the OP already has a well-defined point of view from which he cannot be dissuaded.
She.

But that's only a guess, of course, I have at least 50/50 chance on it being correct.
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Old 7th January 2018, 01:06 PM   #39
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Not all proponents of alien visitation believe that the Earth is being visited by extraterrestrials. There is an increasing number of researchers who propose that the activity is entirely of Earthly origin. One of the earliest proponents of this was a French researcher by the name of Jacques Vallée, who switched to an interdimensional hypothesis after taking part in the US government’s early research of the phenomenon. According to Vallée, humanity is being influenced by a phenomenon that is highly complex and difficult to understand. Neither Vallée or his colleagues managed to figure out the exact purpose(s) of the alleged influence.
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Old 8th January 2018, 02:35 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Aqua View Post
Not all proponents of alien visitation believe that the Earth is being visited by extraterrestrials. There is an increasing number of researchers who propose that the activity is entirely of Earthly origin.
So we're visiting ourselves?

Quote:
One of the earliest proponents of this was a French researcher by the name of Jacques Vallée, who switched to an interdimensional hypothesis after taking part in the US government’s early research of the phenomenon.
What phenomenon? What research? What government agency?


Quote:
According to Vallée, humanity is being influenced by a phenomenon that is highly complex and difficult to understand.
So not the Illuminati? We are getting into David Icke territory here.

Quote:
Neither Vallée or his colleagues managed to figure out the exact purpose(s) of the alleged influence.
How surprising. I'm shocked.

Gotta give the guy credit. He's even linking Our Lady of Lourdes to UFOs.

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