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Tags Catholic incidents , church scandals , George Pell , sex scandals , sexual abuse charges , sexual abuse incidents , sexual misconduct charges

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Old 28th June 2017, 07:23 PM   #1
Brainache
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Cardinal to be charged with sex offences...

Cardinal George Pell is being charged with sex offences.:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/cardi...ALhdy28zsr6qiq
Quote:
..."He said he is looking forward to his day in court and will defend the charges vigorously.

"He has again strenuously denied all allegations."

Cardinal Pell is the third most senior Catholic at the Vatican, where he is responsible for the church's finances. He is likely to step aside from his Vatican post while he fights the charges.

Victoria's Deputy Police Commissioner, Shane Patton, confirmed in a brief press conference on Thursday morning that Cardinal Pell had been issued with multiple charges relating to historical sexual abuse allegations...
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Old 28th June 2017, 08:10 PM   #2
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and of course

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Old 29th June 2017, 03:01 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Brainache View Post
Cardinal George Pell is being charged with sex offences.:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/cardi...ALhdy28zsr6qiq


And now a song:
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I AGREE

I put a large amount of imaginary money down on what the song would be. I won!
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Old 29th June 2017, 04:50 AM   #4
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If he is found guilty then the church could also have to pay a huge amount in civil damages. Could also pay a lot in people no longer going to church. So lose of influence.

Edit. Or so I hope. Do you think I am anywhere near right?
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Old 29th June 2017, 05:14 AM   #5
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"I hear the tollin' of a bell, and it has a Pell-ian knell."

Love it.
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Old 29th June 2017, 11:07 AM   #6
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What are Historical Sex Charges? What exactly did he do? The long article makes no mention of the acts he is being accused of. Do I want to know?

"Funny" how the problem is common enough that we assume it is a child when a priest is involved, yet nobody does anything to stop it.
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Old 29th June 2017, 11:08 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
What are Historical Sex Charges? What exactly did he do? The long article makes no mention of the acts he is being accused of. Do I want to know?

"Funny" how the problem is common enough that we assume it is a child boy when a priest is involved, yet nobody does anything to stop it.
FTFY.
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Old 29th June 2017, 02:18 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
What are Historical Sex Charges? What exactly did he do? The long article makes no mention of the acts he is being accused of. Do I want to know?

"Funny" how the problem is common enough that we assume it is a child when a priest is involved, yet nobody does anything to stop it.
The Police aren't giving details of the charges, but it is known that many years ago Pell shared a house with a Paedophile. He said that he didn't have anything to do with that, but the Victorian Police think he has a case to answer.

I think the "Historical" part refers to the fact that all these complaints come from the time when he was a mere Bishop and no one is accusing him of still doing it.
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Old 29th June 2017, 03:53 PM   #9
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What is the chance he'll go voluntarily? I heard on the radio that he had announced in an earlier matter that he wanted to go to Australia to defend himself but then his doctors said "he was too ill to travel". Yeah right.

And from the article in the OP:
Quote:
He lives in a block of apartments on a square just outside the Vatican walls, metres from St Peter's Square, and a minute's walk from the doors to the Basilica.
So he doesn't live in the Vatican, but in Rome. What would Italy do when Australia issues an arrest warrant through Interpol?
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Old 29th June 2017, 04:30 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
If he is found guilty then the church could also have to pay a huge amount in civil damages. Could also pay a lot in people no longer going to church. So lose of influence.

Edit. Or so I hope. Do you think I am anywhere near right?
He will be found guilty alright. When there is more than 1 accuser the accused needs to prove their innocence - something which is nigh on impossible.

Getting damages will be another kettle of fish. Unlike other churches, the Catholic church is not a legal entity (corporation) so there is no central body to sue.
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Old 29th June 2017, 05:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
FTFY.

I don't normally approve of "fixed" posts, but you actually did fix this one
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Old 30th June 2017, 04:16 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
He will be found guilty alright. When there is more than 1 accuser the accused needs to prove their innocence - something which is nigh on impossible.

Getting damages will be another kettle of fish. Unlike other churches, the Catholic church is not a legal entity (corporation) so there is no central body to sue.
Do you mean: the Catholic church is not a single legal entity, but is made up of scores of different legal persons, like every single episcopate?

It would be fairly easy to point to the legal person that employed the child abuser, then. Hadn't there already been one or more American episcopates filing for bankruptcy as a result of damage claims?
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Old 30th June 2017, 07:23 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Brainache View Post
Cardinal George Pell is being charged with sex offences.:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/cardi...ALhdy28zsr6qiq


And now a song:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Wow, these Catholics are looking more and more like Hassidic Jews every day
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Old 30th June 2017, 03:04 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Getting damages will be another kettle of fish. Unlike other churches, the Catholic church is not a legal entity (corporation) so there is no central body to sue.
Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Do you mean: the Catholic church is not a single legal entity, but is made up of scores of different legal persons, like every single episcopate?

It would be fairly easy to point to the legal person that employed the child abuser, then. Hadn't there already been one or more American episcopates filing for bankruptcy as a result of damage claims?
Referring to this perhaps?
Quote:
In 2014, the royal commission was told how lawyers representing Pell and the Archdiocese of Sydney incurred costs of A$1.5 million against a victim of sexual abuse. The lawyers, acting on the church's instructions, "vigorously" fought John Ellis through the courts despite warnings of his "fragile psychological state". The resulting NSW Court of Appeal ruling established the controversial "Ellis Defence", which confirmed that the church could not be sued as a legal entity and held liable for abuse committed by a priest in such matters. Eventually, Ellis received $568,000 from the church. In a statement to the royal commission in March 2014, Pell reversed his earlier stance in support of the defence, saying: "My own view is that the Church in Australia should be able to be sued in cases of this kind."[80]
From here.
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Old 30th June 2017, 04:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Referring to this perhaps?


From here.
Yes that is the case I was thinking of. I doubt that Pell will have much say about compensation if (when?) he is found guilty.
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Old 2nd July 2017, 07:20 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
If he is found guilty then the church could also have to pay a huge amount in civil damages. Could also pay a lot in people no longer going to church. So lose of influence.

Edit. Or so I hope. Do you think I am anywhere near right?
Likely and wonderful by me if it happens - way too many abused children due to priest and nun (and, not leaving protestants out, preachers ) treatment of them. Would love to see the abused given a free month or more to respond to their tormentors appropriately. And made wealthy by confiscation of church property. Note: yes, I am certain there are many priest/preachers/nuns who did not do things like this and if they truly never knew it was happening or knew it was and reported it they did right.......
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Old 2nd July 2017, 05:36 PM   #17
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George not only denied this but he STRENUOUSLY denied it. What more do you witch hunters want?????

I think he also said he thinks child abuse is abhorrent. He must be innocent.
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Old 2nd July 2017, 06:01 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
George not only denied this but he STRENUOUSLY denied it. What more do you witch hunters want?????

I think he also said he thinks child abuse is abhorrent. He must be innocent.
The actual charges against Pell as an abuser seem like they're going to be difficult to prove. On the other hand, it seems pretty clear he's guilty of covering up for other abusers.
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Old 2nd July 2017, 06:15 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
What is the chance he'll go voluntarily? I heard on the radio that he had announced in an earlier matter that he wanted to go to Australia to defend himself but then his doctors said "he was too ill to travel". Yeah right.

And from the article in the OP:

So he doesn't live in the Vatican, but in Rome. What would Italy do when Australia issues an arrest warrant through Interpol?
Consult their extradition treaty, obviously. Interpol is an information sharing and procedure organizing arrangement. It's not an extranational judicial enforcement agency.

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Old 2nd July 2017, 08:01 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The actual charges against Pell as an abuser seem like they're going to be difficult to prove.
Not at all. If it was just one victim then proof would be difficult. However, as other celebrities have shown, if you can parade a string of alleged victims one after another in the same trial then the odds of at least one guilty verdict rise dramatically and the "guilty of one, guilty of them all" mentality takes over.
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