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Tags Allais Effect , Dark Flow , relativity , Theory of Relativity

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Old 3rd February 2016, 06:50 AM   #121
Bjarne
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Common sense is one thing. I thought you were talking about science.

And now you're saying that it's propaganda. Which, again, means conspiracy. So it's a conspiracy that NASA have been misled by, rather than one they are misleading people with?
No rather 100 years massive provaganda / brainwash, that prevent the brain to keep the option open, that something is wrong with the the theory of relativity
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Old 3rd February 2016, 06:54 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
No rather 100 years massive provaganda / brainwash, that prevent the brain to keep the option open, that something is wrong with the the theory of relativity
But somebody(s) must have started that propaganda.

That's where the conspiracy started. Or didn't it?
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Old 3rd February 2016, 06:58 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Relativity explains Mercury. Does EU? Is it more precise than ToR/ Where can we find the observations that demonstrate it?
An excellent point, I was researching the whole Vulcan business recently. Unless Bjarne can explain perhelion progression he's got nothing.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 07:02 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
An excellent point, I was researching the whole Vulcan business recently. Unless Bjarne can explain perhelion progression he's got nothing.
And this is what I did, - very much down to Earth..

The way to calculate how much the eclipse diviate from a perfect cirkel, - per second - can be nicer. But not crucial yet, the force is there, and it fits the bill.

We are in fact lossing mercury, this is what happen. The excat same law of nature was resposible for the pioneer anomaly..

http://www.science27.com/mercury

Last edited by Bjarne; 3rd February 2016 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 07:04 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
very mush
... very mush indeed.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 07:22 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
And this is what I did, - very much down to Earth..

The way to calculate how much the eclipse diviate from a perfect cirkel, - per second - can be nicer. But not crucial yet, the force is there, and it fits the bill.

We are in fact lossing mercury, this is what happen. The excat same law of nature was resposible for the pioneer anomaly..

http://www.science27.com/mercury
I asked
Quote:

Relativity explains Mercury. Does EU? Is it more precise than ToR/ Where can we find the observations that demonstrate it?
Is it more precise than Relativity? Being better than Relativity IS THE point, is it not? In order for a theory to supplant ToR it is crucial that it be demonstrably better and more precise than ToR. Your post above gives the impression that you believe that all it needs to do is come subjectively close to the same result as ToR. Not good enough.

In fact in order to supplant ToR you will ave to demonstrate that EU is better than ToR in that it makes the same or more precise predictions as ToR and that it also works in a group of situations in which ToR does not fully explain observations. That would be a very big, very detailed paper with a lot of calculations and formulas, worthy of submission to peer review journals.

Last edited by jaydeehess; 3rd February 2016 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 07:33 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
I asked


Is it more precise than Relativity? Being better than Relativity IS THE point, is it not? In order for a theory to supplant ToR it is crucial that it be demonstrably better and more precise than ToR. Your post above gives the impression that you believe that all it needs to do is come subjectively close to the same result as ToR. Not good enough.

RR can easy explain the perihelion precision anomaly, thus it is not necessary to belive that GR is the correct theory for gravity..

http://science27.com/mercurye/
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Old 3rd February 2016, 07:41 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
RR can easy explain the perihelion precision anomaly, thus it is not necessary to belive that GR is the correct theory for gravity..

http://science27.com/mercurye/
Theory of Relativity can easily explain the precession of the perihelion of Mercury thus it is not necessary to believe EU is the correct theory for gravity.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 07:45 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Read the theory my freind and you would not have these conserns
How does the model explain why decay rates slow down as particles speed up?
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Old 3rd February 2016, 07:50 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
I asked.........

In fact in order to supplant ToR you will ave to demonstrate that EU is better than ToR in that it makes the same or more precise predictions as ToR and that it also works in a group of situations in which ToR does not fully explain observations. That would be a very big, very detailed paper with a lot of calculations and formulas, worthy of submission to peer review journals.
Does it make the same, and better, predictions as GR, in every situation? Does it make valid predictions for situations that GR does not?

If the answer is no, or it makes most of the same predictions then it DOES NOT supplant GR!

If you can demonstrate this and prepare a paper on it, I suggest you do it in Danish or German and submit it for peer review.

THAT IS THE ONLY WAY that you are ever going to be able to fulfill the title of your thread and see " The Theory of Relativity will begin to fall apart in 2016/2017".

Posting this on forums across the internet will never fulfill your dream. Posting it on internet forums is about as effective as explaining it to Den lille Havfrue.

Last edited by jaydeehess; 3rd February 2016 at 07:55 AM.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 07:55 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
No rather 100 years massive provaganda / brainwash, that prevent the brain to keep the option open, that something is wrong with the the theory of relativity
Wherein we see a broad and ill-defined range of values for "something."
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Old 3rd February 2016, 07:58 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
I am not sure you understand how much common sence damage 100 years massive provaganda can do.
I know one guy who understood the problem with Common Sense very well.

Quote:
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. -- Albert Einstein
(From: //www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alberteins125365.html#XhgusgG8h8kOHZq6.99)

And look at how he turned things upside down.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 08:42 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
No rather 100 years massive provaganda / brainwash, that prevent the brain to keep the option open, that something is wrong with the the theory of relativity
Always a great option to blame "them" for the fact that your pet theory cannot gain acceptance.

The ironic thing here is that Einstein had a fair amount of resistance to relativity and yet he surmounted all that by PUBLISHING, and having observation bear out his predictions.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 08:50 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
No rather 100 years massive provaganda / brainwash, that prevent the brain to keep the option open, that something is wrong with the the theory of relativity
Propaganda by who? To what aim?

And if people's brains aren't open to the possibility that something could defy relativity, then why did CERN scientists 5 years ago release press statements to the effect that they thought they might have defied relativity?
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Old 3rd February 2016, 09:05 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
So long GPS not is a scientific test system, the scientific aspect does not have primary priority.
A) I did not claim that GPS was a 'scientific test system.' I claimed that your statements about GPS corrections were wrong. I stand by my claims, and maintain that GPS data does, in fact, provide very strong ongoing support for mainstream relativity.

B) The sun is not a scientific test system, and yet we have learned a great deal by studying it.

C) By any reasonable standard, the HafeleľKeating experiment was a 'scientific test system' that tested Relativity. If we compare them,
1) GPS provides data from dozens of atomic clocks (typically ~29) vs. 4 for HafeleľKeating
2) GPS provides >180,000 hours of data vs. ~100 hours for HafeleľKeating
3) The GPS trajectories are vastly more accurate.
. . . and yet you would have us reject GPS data in favor of HafeleľKeating because GPS isn't a 'scientific test system?' (afaik, there's no inconsistency between HafeleľKeating results and GPS results)



Quote:
Exactly like Chernobyl also had a different primary purpose.
I believe this is the first time I've ever heard GPS compared to Chernobyl.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 09:10 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
I am not sure you understand how much common sence damage 100 years massive provaganda can do.
I am not sure you understand that data for cesium clocks in orbit and the time differentials.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 09:14 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
And this is what I did, - very much down to Earth..

The way to calculate how much the eclipse diviate from a perfect cirkel, - per second - can be nicer. But not crucial yet, the force is there, and it fits the bill.

We are in fact lossing mercury, this is what happen. The excat same law of nature was resposible for the pioneer anomaly..

http://www.science27.com/mercury
I don't think you really know what the perihelion anomaly is.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 09:17 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Propaganda by who? To what aim?
Einstein achieved something approaching rock star celebrity.
I suspect that Bjarne wishes to garner that same celebrity.

Quote:
And if people's brains aren't open to the possibility that something could defy relativity, then why did CERN scientists 5 years ago release press statements to the effect that they thought they might have defied relativity?
Good point.
In fact scientists get very excited anytime something they observe appears to contradict predictions. Its a mystery, a problem that begs solving which will advance knowledge. Without such curiosity we would not have, among other things, penicillin.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 09:20 AM   #139
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Quote:
The way to calculate how much the eclipse diviate from a perfect cirkel, - per second - can be nicer.
Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
I don't think you really know what the perihelion anomaly is.
I have to admit the language barrier prevented me from fully understanding that sentence. If he thinks that the anomaly is the fact that Mercury's orbit isn't a circle then we might assume he knows nothing about orbital mechanics at all.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:07 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Without such curiosity we would not have, among other things, penicillin.
Or the medium through which we're having this conversation.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:17 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Einstein achieved something approaching rock star celebrity..........
Yeah, but he earned it.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:31 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
The place you went wrong is that before an anisotropic accelerating can be measured, the test object must be exposed to the anisotropic force acceleration and not to the earth not. so simple is that.

Before continuing tell me when is such test object exposed?
Yes The test object in both cases is exposed to contact force that holds it to the earths surface. The contact force can be described as a rigid body force or an elastic force with very large elasticity.

Anisotropy means that the force is varying with direction. The rotation of the earth causes the forces on each body to vary in direction. If the forces in each case didn't vary with direction, the bodies in the experimental apparatus couldn't be stationary with respect to the surface of the earth.

The surface of the earth is a physical surface only because there are forces that act on each body on the surface. The surface retains its integrity because of contact forces that vary in direction. If there were no internal forces keeping the surface intact, then the bodies on the surface would go into a gravitational orbit. The gravitational orbit would not have the same frequency as the rotation of the earth.

Every experiment involves bodies that are under the influence of force. I don't know which bodies that you would consider a 'test object'. However, it doesn't really matter since all the bodies are accelerating due to anisotropic forces.

All bodies in the Foucault experiment are subject to anisotropic forces. The pendulum Foucault is a bob (massive weight) attached to a very long cord. The weight is subject to two major forces: the elastic force of the cord and the gravity of the earth. Both forces are anisotropic since the direction of the force varies with position. The ceiling is under the influence of the tension of the string and gravity. The tension varies with the direction of the cord so it is anisotropic.

If you consider the bob to be the test object, then clearly it is under a very anisotropic force of the tension on the cord. However, you can decide that the cord is the test object or the ceiling is the test object. They are subject to anisotropic forces that you would probably call mundane.

All bodies in the Michelson-Gale experiment are subject to anisotropic forces. Each mirror in the Michalson-Gale experiment is subject to three forces: gravity, the contact force of the table on the mirrors, and the light pressure from the light waves. Each of these forces have to vary in direction in order for the mirrors to remain stationary with respect to the surface of the earth.

The most interesting force for me in the Michalson-Gale experiment is the light pressure. The light rotating in the counter clockwise direction is exerting a different force on the mirror than the light rotating in the clockwise position because of Doppler shift. The light reflected off each mirror is Doppler shifted when reflecting off the mirror, creating a difference in wavelength and hence a difference in light pressure.

Most derivations of the Sagnac effect avoid considerations of the light pressure by using the hypothesis that the mirrors are stationary with respect to the surface of the earth. The derivations don't show that the mirrors could only be stationary if the direction of the light pressure was anisotropic in the direction of motion. The contact force of mirror against holder has to be anisotropic to hold the holder in place, and the light pressure has to be anisotropic in order to hold the mirror in place.

You probably consider the mirrors to be 'test objects'. However, you could also consider the photons to be test objects if you like. Every time a photon hits a mirror, it recoils due to the force of the mirror on the photon. The relativistic twist is that the photons are going at a constant speed, designated 'c'. This sort of thing is not predicted in Newtonian physics. However, the salient point doesn't change. The force of photon on mirror is anisotropic.

You are making the common mistake of ignoring the internal forces that hold objects together. These forces can not be totally ignored when solving a problem in either Newtonian physics or Einstein's physics.

Last edited by Darwin123; 3rd February 2016 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:36 AM   #143
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Darwin123, you are one of the very few people here on the forum who really provides some logical reasoning and evidence.
Scepticism as it should be. Thank you.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:38 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Theory of Relativity can easily explain the precession of the perihelion of Mercury thus it is not necessary to believe EU is the correct theory for gravity.
In the end of the day its a question of evidence
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:39 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
I want to see some scepticism on the content of the content of the topic starter.
Is that possible on this forum? Thank you. (I mean: some real scepticism).
I am quite skeptical that "content of the content" makes much sense.


ETA: I see you edited your post.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:40 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by AdamSK View Post
How does the model explain why decay rates slow down as particles speed up?
try to read the site www.science27.com
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:40 AM   #147
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Quote:
ETA: I see you edited your post.
Yes, sorry for that. I saw that Darwin123 gave some real arguments just before I posted my post.
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spacetime exists 'outthere'. It's all events together.
We, minds, experience moment by moment the unfolding of events. But that's not how the phenomena exist outthere. In spacetime all events already exist simultaniously in past, present and future.(Einstein) Only the interaction with a mind, establishes the experience of the unfolding of these events, moment by moment.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:40 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
In the end of the day its a question of evidence
Yes and thus I said, and you ignored:
Quote:
Does it make the same, and better, predictions as GR, in every situation? Does it make valid predictions for situations that GR does not?

If the answer is no, or it makes most of the same predictions then it DOES NOT supplant GR!

If you can demonstrate this and prepare a paper on it, I suggest you do it in Danish or German and submit it for peer review.

THAT IS THE ONLY WAY that you are ever going to be able to fulfill the title of your thread and see " The Theory of Relativity will begin to fall apart in 2016/2017".

Posting this on forums across the internet will never fulfill your dream. Posting it on internet forums is about as effective as explaining it to Den lille Havfrue.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:41 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Does it make the same, and better, predictions as GR, in every situation? Does it make valid predictions for situations that GR does not?

If the answer is no, or it makes most of the same predictions then it DOES NOT supplant GR!

If you can demonstrate this and prepare a paper on it, I suggest you do it in Danish or German and submit it for peer review.

THAT IS THE ONLY WAY that you are ever going to be able to fulfill the title of your thread and see " The Theory of Relativity will begin to fall apart in 2016/2017".

Posting this on forums across the internet will never fulfill your dream. Posting it on internet forums is about as effective as explaining it to Den lille Havfrue.
You have to read the theory if you want to know the differencies, and what is common
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:45 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
You have to read the theory if you want to know the differencies, and what is common
Yes, I wonder wether someone really has read the theory of the OP and can explain argument by argument why it is wrong. That would be real good scepticism.
Point by point.
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spacetime exists 'outthere'. It's all events together.
We, minds, experience moment by moment the unfolding of events. But that's not how the phenomena exist outthere. In spacetime all events already exist simultaniously in past, present and future.(Einstein) Only the interaction with a mind, establishes the experience of the unfolding of these events, moment by moment.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:46 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
I have to admit the language barrier prevented me from fully understanding that sentence. If he thinks that the anomaly is the fact that Mercury's orbit isn't a circle then we might assume he knows nothing about orbital mechanics at all.
Right in a circle RR and RRPKE cancel out, hence no anomaly. Paths more or less alongated is dominated by RR
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:49 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
....... Paths more or less alongated is dominated by RR
Orbits, perhaps, and elongated? Really, Bjarne, although English isn't your first language, you aren't making it easy for people to understand what you are trying to say.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:54 AM   #153
AdamSK
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
try to read the site www.science27.com
So it does or it doesn't provide an alternative explanation for this phenomenon?
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Old 3rd February 2016, 11:01 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Well, not to sound too much like a grumpy bottom, but I would argue that not many ground-breaking physics theories are presented to the world on fairly obscure, non-technical, internet discussion forums.
http://www.thescienceforum.com/astro...-possible.html
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Old 3rd February 2016, 11:06 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Yes, I wonder wether someone really has read the theory of the OP and can explain argument by argument why it is wrong. That would be real good scepticism.
Point by point.
There is a very good reason why nobody would or should be foolhardy enough to undertake such a thing. One quick peek and you discover that he measures energy in meters. And he measures speed in meters and so on.

Now, to be charitable, that may be a matter of a language barrier but the consequence is that the text cannot be parsed let alone critiqued.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 11:10 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Yes, sorry for that. I saw that Darwin123 gave some real arguments just before I posted my post.
So you post a complaint without reading, change that same post, than in a new post following, you post a complaint that people don't read a theory.

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Old 3rd February 2016, 11:11 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Yes, I wonder wether someone really has read the theory of the OP and can explain argument by argument why it is wrong. That would be real good scepticism.
Point by point.
Are you familiar with the op's history of posting theories?
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Old 3rd February 2016, 11:13 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Darwin123, you are one of the very few people here on the forum who really provides some logical reasoning and evidence.
Scepticism as it should be. Thank you.
Thanks! Your compliment means even more to me than a compliment would from someone that I agree with!
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Old 3rd February 2016, 11:19 AM   #159
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Well ... I'm convinced! Bjarne this is an exceeding rare and unprecedented event here on the ISF, but the ISF team has decided to make you point man on the development of the inter-galactic hyper-drive engine! And we need it-yesterday.

How else will humankind take over the galaxy! Please don't disappoint us ...
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Old 3rd February 2016, 11:23 AM   #160
Maartenn100
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Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
Are you familiar with the op's history of posting theories?
'the history of posting theories' of someone doesn't tell us anything about the validity of a theory.
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