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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Andrew Bolt , autism , environmental activists , Greta Thunberg

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Old 16th November 2019, 10:01 PM   #2841
cullennz
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
You don't buy how much of the right wing attacks on Thunberg are to discredit her cause? Otherwise who would care so much about this one 16 year old?
All the criticism of her methods are from the right wing?

Or do you just think more of the criticisms are from the right wing, which I would agree with?
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 16th November 2019, 10:30 PM   #2842
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
But none get her
You are right! I carelessly misspoke. There is one conservative, living in a yurt in Mongolian, who gets her. Sorry to generalize.
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Old 16th November 2019, 10:35 PM   #2843
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
You are right! I carelessly misspoke. There is one conservative, living in a yurt in Mongolian, who gets her. Sorry to generalize.
Sorry, but we had a conservative government who signed the french agreement and spent shed loads on subsidising insulating houses which was good.

Maybe where you live conservatives are all idiots.

If true, maybe you might want to put "my countries conservatives"
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 16th November 2019, 10:41 PM   #2844
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
All the criticism of her methods are from the right wing?

Or do you just think more of the criticisms are from the right wing, which I would agree with?
This is intensely silly! I referred to the criticisms from the right wing; I said nothing to suggest that these were the only criticisms. Although they clearly are the source of the bulk of the criticisms.

Isn’t this obvious? Why do I have the feeling your posts are asking silly questions just for me to waste my time answering them?
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Old 16th November 2019, 10:41 PM   #2845
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Again, I did not say that at all. By not getting Thunberg I mean not understanding her strategy and approach. Not that conservatives cannot be environmentalists. Some are.
But they are to thick to work out her strategy and approach?
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 16th November 2019, 10:45 PM   #2846
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
This is intensely silly! I referred to the criticisms from the right wing; I said nothing to suggest that these were the only criticisms. Although they clearly are the source of the bulk of the criticisms.

Isn’t this obvious? Why do I have the feeling your posts are asking silly questions just for me to waste my time answering them?
Well no

At least not in NZ

I have seen our more Labour type voters (left) criticise her , and National (right if you stretch the term to the max).

Just saying you might want to not paint all people on one side of the political spectrum on things like universal health care, tax rates, the economy, housing, immigration, with the same brush over some 16 year old
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 16th November 2019, 10:47 PM   #2847
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Lightbulb

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
All the criticism of her methods are from the right wing?

Or do you just think more of the criticisms are from the right wing, which I would agree with?
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Sorry, but we had a conservative government who signed the french agreement and spent shed loads on subsidising insulating houses which was good.

Maybe where you live conservatives are all idiots.

If true, maybe you might want to put "my countries conservatives"
You are still not getting what I mean by conservatives not “getting” Thonberg. Or pretending not to. Didn’t we once have a long discussion about the term “trans” that ended up in the world of pretend?
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Old 16th November 2019, 10:49 PM   #2848
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
You are still not getting what I mean by conservatives not “getting” Thonberg. Or pretending not to. Didn’t we once have a long discussion about the term “trans” that ended up in the world of pretend?
Why don't you just define what you mean by conservative and no
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 16th November 2019, 10:51 PM   #2849
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And as an aside

Maybe give her the respect to spell her name right
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 16th November 2019, 10:53 PM   #2850
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
All the criticism of her methods are from the right wing?

Or do you just think more of the criticisms are from the right wing, which I would agree with?
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Well no

At least not in NZ

I have seen our more Labour type voters (left) criticise her , and National (right if you stretch the term to the max).

Just saying you might want to not paint all people on one side of the political spectrum on things like universal health care, tax rates, the economy, housing, immigration, with the same brush over some 16 year old

Good thing I didn’t
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Old 16th November 2019, 10:57 PM   #2851
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
And as an aside

Maybe give her the respect to spell her name right
I’m transiting to bed; too late to play with you any more tonight.
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Old 16th November 2019, 10:57 PM   #2852
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
[/hilite]
Good thing I didn’t
I have criticised the Greta band wagon

Hands up guilty

I believe in climate change, universal healthcare, benefits for those in the ****.

I myself would call myself completely middle of the road in politics

Just get a bit frustrated when any criticism of her or others suddenly makes me a right wing nutcase

But all good
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 16th November 2019, 11:37 PM   #2853
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Ours

In fact our PM has called climate change "Her generations nuclear free moment"

Not that they doing any good from it.

And not that it will make any difference given the miniscule amount of emissions we comparatively emit
Per capita?



Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Just saying you might want to not paint all people on one side of the political spectrum on things like universal health care, tax rates, the economy, housing, immigration, with the same brush over some 16 year old
Agree, apart from the ageism.


Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I have criticised the Greta band wagon

Hands up guilty

I believe in climate change, universal healthcare, benefits for those in the ****.

I myself would call myself completely middle of the road in politics

Just get a bit frustrated when any criticism of her or others suddenly makes me a right wing nutcase

But all good
I've always thought you were far, far more "left" than, say, TBD, or others in the US.

The problem I see isn't to do with any left/right labels.

It's that you attack Thunberg illogically or emotionally, with ad homs and the wrong information about her, and always seem to be talking about a fanclub or church in here, when people are instead pointing out faulty reasoning in some of your statements,




This thread seems odd to me. It's like many in it have prior bad opinions of each other, and are using the thread to score points against each other, not add to all of our knowledge via discussion about the topic.
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Old 16th November 2019, 11:40 PM   #2854
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I have criticised the Greta band wagon

Hands up guilty

I believe in climate change, universal healthcare, benefits for those in the ****.

I myself would call myself completely middle of the road in politics

Just get a bit frustrated when any criticism of her or others suddenly makes me a right wing nutcase

But all good
When dd you start? Because earlier in this thread you doubted the extent and timing of global warming. Do you believe in climate change but only slowly? This is classic Denialism.

Based on your performance in this thread, I don’t think you believe in climate change at all.
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Old 16th November 2019, 11:44 PM   #2855
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
When dd you start? Because earlier in this thread you doubted the extent and timing of global warming. Do you believe in climate change but only slowly? This is classic Denialism.

Based on your performance in this thread, I don’t think you believe in climate change at all.

I simply said I don't agree that in 8 years the world will become and unstoppable death spiral, if we don't meet someones theoretical figures
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 16th November 2019, 11:46 PM   #2856
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Per capita?





Agree, apart from the ageism.




I've always thought you were far, far more "left" than, say, TBD, or others in the US.

The problem I see isn't to do with any left/right labels.

It's that you attack Thunberg illogically or emotionally, with ad homs and the wrong information about her, and always seem to be talking about a fanclub or church in here, when people are instead pointing out faulty reasoning in some of your statements,




This thread seems odd to me. It's like many in it have prior bad opinions of each other, and are using the thread to score points against each other, not add to all of our knowledge via discussion about the topic.
I disagree with her causing more carbon by sailing in a yacht than catching a plane is irrelevant.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 16th November 2019, 11:53 PM   #2857
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Mind you in 8 years you might get to say I told you so and the world stops working.

Everything dies and weirdo religious types say Armageddon is happening,

And the odd Nostradamus weirdo trying to join links that used to be the twin towers, and before that the two royals
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 17th November 2019, 12:05 AM   #2858
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I simply said I don't agree that in 8 years the world will become and unstoppable death spiral, if we don't meet someones theoretical figures
Why don’t you agree that if serious action doesn’t happen in the next decade or so, dangerous climate change will be locked in? See, I accept scientific opinion on this. What do you base your opinions on? Do you have qualifications in this area so that people will accept this opinion?

See, you might just say “it’s my opinion”, but an opinion without basis can be dismissed comprehensively and with derision.
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Old 17th November 2019, 12:09 AM   #2859
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Why don’t you agree that if serious action doesn’t happen in the next decade or so, dangerous climate change will be locked in? See, I accept scientific opinion on this. What do you base your opinions on? Do you have qualifications in this area so that people will accept this opinion?

See, you might just say “it’s my opinion”, but an opinion without basis can be dismissed comprehensively and with derision.
Meanwhile let's tell vulnerable young people it is 8 years or they die
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 17th November 2019, 12:10 AM   #2860
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Meanwhile let's tell vulnerable young people it is 8 years or they die
You are the only one saying this. Greta is not.
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Old 17th November 2019, 12:16 AM   #2861
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
You are the only one saying this. Greta is not.
Whatever


You know full well a lot of the UN is saying 10 and a fair few scientists say 8


The ones Greta urges people to listen to.

It might help if with her preaching she could recommend non nutty ones
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 17th November 2019, 03:38 AM   #2862
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Whatever


You know full well a lot of the UN is saying 10 and a fair few scientists say 8


The ones Greta urges people to listen to.

It might help if with her preaching she could recommend non nutty ones

There is about 10 years to take real actions to prevent catastophic events. Catastrophic means many fatalaties. Don't shoot the messenger. Don't be surprised if the younger people who will have to live with the results are going to raise hell. So far the actions have been benign. The current fires in Australia are costing far more than any inconvenience caused by protests.
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Old 17th November 2019, 07:15 AM   #2863
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72 pages in, and still going over (and over and over and over...)the same things that were cleared up by page 3. If anyone is reading this in the future and wonders why we couldn't get enough of a mandate to get governments and the fuel/manufacturing industries to work diligently on the climate change problem, this thread is a great example.
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Old 17th November 2019, 09:00 AM   #2864
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Meanwhile let's tell vulnerable young people it is 8 years or they die
Really, it's down to a "Think about the children" argument? If governments and industry had thought about the children we wouldn't be in this predicament. Hell, if parents had thought about the children they would have done something sooner. The upcoming generation is the one going to have to deal with climate change so why shouldn't they be told about it?

Hopefully, when the **** hits the fan, they sacrifice the older generation and save the younger.
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Old 17th November 2019, 09:06 AM   #2865
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Mind you in 8 years you might get to say I told you so and the world stops working.

Everything dies and weirdo religious types say Armageddon is happening,

And the odd Nostradamus weirdo trying to join links that used to be the twin towers, and before that the two royals
And weirdo climate denier types say they knew it all along and tried to warn us.

If you listen to the science and do something about it, Cullenz, and Greta turns out to be wrong, the worst you get is a cleaner planet. If she's right, maybe we can do something to mitigate the results. There really is no down side to doing something about it.
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Old 17th November 2019, 10:00 AM   #2866
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
At least one person in this very thread doubts the extent of future warming and thinks it will arrive far more slowly than scientists predict.
Just one?

And how will being reminded that attacking Thunberg doesn't make climate change go away, change that persons way of thinking?

Giordano seems to think they are addressing the same juvenile audience that Greta lectures, on benign things that they need to be reminded of.
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Old 17th November 2019, 10:03 AM   #2867
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
You don't buy how much of the right wing attacks on Thunberg are to discredit her cause? Otherwise who would care so much about this one 16 year old?
What does that have to do with reminding people in this forum, that attacking Thunberg does not change the reality of climate change?
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Old 17th November 2019, 10:23 AM   #2868
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
At least one
Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Just one?
C'mon, really?
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Old 17th November 2019, 11:22 AM   #2869
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
You are the only one saying this. Greta is not.
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Whatever
The thread in a nutshell. Make up lies about Thunberg. Criticize her based on the lies. And then show complete indifference when the lies are proven.

I have absolutely no idea what the liars in this thread are hoping to accomplish, unless they are looking to show us all evidence of their own moral bankruptcy.

The op asks if Ms Thunberg is “disturbed”. No evidence of this has been provided in this thread. There is definite evidence in this thread that some posters here are obsessed with finding fault with Thunberg and do belong in that category.
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Old 17th November 2019, 11:49 AM   #2870
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
The thread in a nutshell. Make up lies about Thunberg. Criticize her based on the lies. And then show complete indifference when the lies are proven.

I have absolutely no idea what the liars in this thread are hoping to accomplish, unless they are looking to show us all evidence of their own moral bankruptcy.

The op asks if Ms Thunberg is “disturbed”. No evidence of this has been provided in this thread. There is definite evidence in this thread that some posters here are obsessed with finding fault with Thunberg and do belong in that category.
Au contraire. Her own words show that she is quite disturbed about the climate and inaction she perceives. And rightfully so.

I would opine that the thread is more about how much we value talk over action. Several of us here have a short fusefor virtue signalling shows. Greta (inadvertently) is the current poster child for the endless gum-flapping that passes for discussion.

Note please that this thread rolls on, while a similar thread sits dormant. That shows pretty clearly, I think, what the subject is and is not, here.
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Old 17th November 2019, 12:42 PM   #2871
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Au contraire. Her own words show that she is quite disturbed about the climate and inaction she perceives. And rightfully so.

I would opine that the thread is more about how much we value talk over action. Several of us here have a short fusefor virtue signalling shows. Greta (inadvertently) is the current poster child for the endless gum-flapping that passes for discussion.

Note please that this thread rolls on, while a similar thread sits dormant. That shows pretty clearly, I think, what the subject is and is not, here.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...sil-fuel-lobby


Yeah, about that.

Quote:
Mann told the Observer that although flat rejection of global warming was becoming increasingly hard to maintain in the face of mounting evidence, this did not mean climate change deniers were giving up the fight.
“First of all, there is an attempt being made by them to deflect attention away from finding policy solutions to global warming towards promoting individual behaviour changes that affect people’s diets, travel choices and other personal behaviour,” said Mann. “This is a deflection campaign and a lot of well-meaning people have been taken in by it.”

Greta is on the right track to be pushing for policy change.
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Old 17th November 2019, 12:49 PM   #2872
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Au contraire. Her own words show that she is quite disturbed about the climate and inaction she perceives. And rightfully so.

I would opine that the thread is more about how much we value talk over action. Several of us here have a short fusefor virtue signalling shows. Greta (inadvertently) is the current poster child for the endless gum-flapping that passes for discussion.

Note please that this thread rolls on, while a similar thread sits dormant. That shows pretty clearly, I think, what the subject is and is not, here.
Don’t pretend to be naive about the plain meaning of “disturbed” in the op. It is spelled out quite clearly.

I have no real issue with your opinion here. I do not agree with it but it is valid, and honest. unfortunately there are a number of posters here who are not so honest. If those posters would stick to criticizing things she has actually done I would be fine with that.
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Old 17th November 2019, 01:47 PM   #2873
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...sil-fuel-lobby


Yeah, about that.




Greta is on the right track to be pushing for policy change.
I'll bet that guy has a lot of frequent flier miles racked up. No wonder he's against people adjusting their lifestyle. No fossil fuels for you poor people.
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Old 17th November 2019, 02:29 PM   #2874
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I'll bet that guy has a lot of frequent flier miles racked up. No wonder he's against people adjusting their lifestyle. No fossil fuels for you poor people.
Where did he say he's against it? He is not "that guy", he is one of the bravest climate scientists out there who has had to endure decades of vilification, humiliation and death threats.

He even seems to know you.
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Old 17th November 2019, 03:16 PM   #2875
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True! He is against shifting the focus from what really matters:

From the same article:
Quote:
“We should also be aware how the forces of denial are exploiting the lifestyle change movement to get their supporters to argue with each other. It takes pressure off attempts to regulate the fossil fuel industry. This approach is a softer form of denial and in many ways it is more pernicious.”
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Old 17th November 2019, 04:25 PM   #2876
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Yep, we can regulate the industry, make oil really expensive. Poor people, they can go hang, freeze in their houses because even if you triple the price of fuel, the rich will still be able to afford their week in Fiji.

People leading carbon rich lifestyles will say anything. Anything against the idea of reducing demand in order to preserve their lifestyles.

They're going to have to pry my propane patios heaters out of my cold dead hands.
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Old 17th November 2019, 06:28 PM   #2877
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Don’t pretend to be naive about the plain meaning of “disturbed” in the op. It is spelled out quite clearly.
I'm not pretending anything; just a bit of equivocation meant sympathetically to her.

Quote:
I have no real issue with your opinion here. I do not agree with it but it is valid, and honest. unfortunately there are a number of posters here who are not so honest. If those posters would stick to criticizing things she has actually done I would be fine with that.
As an aside, thanks for this. We all get caught up in arguments and seeing agendas that aren't intended. Does a brother good to see a polite disagreement once in a while.
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Old 17th November 2019, 06:40 PM   #2878
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Yep, we can regulate the industry, make oil really expensive. Poor people, they can go hang, freeze in their houses because even if you triple the price of fuel, the rich will still be able to afford their week in Fiji.

People leading carbon rich lifestyles will say anything. Anything against the idea of reducing demand in order to preserve their lifestyles.

They're going to have to pry my propane patios heaters out of my cold dead hands.
Yes, a post that is exactly as Mann predicted.
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Old 17th November 2019, 07:13 PM   #2879
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Yes, a post that is exactly as Mann predicted.
Here, I'll simplify things a little and explain just what it is that I'm doing here.

I need you to think of oil as meth.

What I'm doing is running a D.A.R.E program to try to keep people off on meth (oil). to prevent them from getting too deeply entangled that they won't be able to back out and end up either dead or in the clutches of the DEA.

You don't object to trying to keep kids off of drugs do you ?

I know it's too late for most of you Greataphiles, I can see it in your posts but it's your kids, your grand children I'm thinking about and it doesn't do them any good to be raised in a drug house.
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Old 17th November 2019, 07:20 PM   #2880
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Here, I'll simplify things a little and explain just what it is that I'm doing here.

I need you to think of oil as meth.

What I'm doing is running a D.A.R.E program to try to keep people off on meth (oil). to prevent them from getting too deeply entangled that they won't be able to back out and end up either dead or in the clutches of the DEA.

You don't object to trying to keep kids off of drugs do you ?

I know it's too late for most of you Greataphiles, I can see it in your posts but it's your kids, your grand children I'm thinking about and it doesn't do them any good to be raised in a drug house.
Ms Thunberg and yourself have a common goal, but you have spent many posts disparaging her message. Her message is being heard by many thousands of people. Yours by around ten. Thunberg appears to be far and away the more effective communicator.
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