|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
31st October 2016, 12:34 PM | #1 | ||
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
|
Signs of the End Times - Part Two
While it's often claimed that Luke was written by a companion of Paul's who was an apostle that's more of a second century tradition than actual fact. I suggest Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew to learn a bit about the history of the text Christians deem holy. Luke was most likely written a generation or two after the time of Christ. |
||
31st October 2016, 12:35 PM | #2 |
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 14,588
|
|
__________________
A man's best friend is his dogma. |
|
31st October 2016, 12:35 PM | #3 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 23,499
|
|
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
|
31st October 2016, 12:44 PM | #4 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
|
|
31st October 2016, 12:52 PM | #5 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: West Coast South Africa
Posts: 6,081
|
Yes divorce is an act of violence in that it a destroying of what YHVH constituted. And to remarry is adultery—this is what Jesus stated, and he was talking of divorce.
You see, Abraham sent Hagar away—he divorced her, it was a violent act. Abraham sent a mother and her child into the desert to die. Deu 24:1 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, So as Abraham he SENDS her from his house—so the English uses the word divorce. Children suffer immensely—it is violence. So it is like Amnon—love turns to hatred---- 2Sa_13:1 In the course of time, Amnon son of David fell in love with Tamar, the beautiful sister of Absalom son of David. After the sex act--2Sa_13:15 Then Amnon hated her with intense hatred. In fact, he hated her more than he had loved her. Amnon said to her, "Get up and get out!" So Amnon married his half-sister then divorced her---"Get up and get out!" In actual fact this was rape---violence---this was the sort of violence in the days of Noah. |
__________________
Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
|
31st October 2016, 12:53 PM | #6 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 816
|
|
31st October 2016, 01:06 PM | #7 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: West Coast South Africa
Posts: 6,081
|
This one thing I am certain about, Malachi says that God originally made only one woman for one man, though He could have made many. It was a sin, therefore, against the original constitution of the race for a man to have more than one wife, and this is the argument that our Lord employed in Mat_19:4. The one man for the one woman is the secret of a happy home-life and of a godly seed.
|
__________________
Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
|
31st October 2016, 01:13 PM | #8 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
|
Thank you very much.
Nor do I think would he have ever looked it up. We can see how he approaches the issue in post 3810. Notice how he takes his conclusion and interpretation and works backwards from there. He's not reading what the Bible says and building his interpretation upon that, but backtracking from the conclusion he wants to reach. The underlying Hebrew is not a source of revelation for him, but a tool to use sparingly when it can support his extant beliefs. He doesn't really care what the Bible says about divorce, only how he can use its words to support what he wants to believe. If he is divorced, as I suspect, he may be trying to find a way to turn his failure to move on to a new relationship into a virtue, much like the "Men Going Their Own Way" movement. One interesting part about his post is that he's so blatant about backtracking. I've heard plenty of sermons over the years and most backtrackers at least have the competence to structure their statements so it looks like their preconceived conclusion was derived from scripture, instead of the other way around. Paul however lacks the subtlety and communication skill to realize this is even advisable, let alone do it. I think it's one of the reasons he has no followers. |
31st October 2016, 01:21 PM | #9 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
|
Neither Adam nor Eve are recorded as having remarried after the death of their partner. By the logic you're espousing it would be adultery for your wife to remarry after you die.
Taking the life of Adam and Eve as an absolute rule about what is and is not permissible would ban eyeglasses, IVF, crop rotation and anything else not explicitly permitted in later laws. If you're going to sincerely use Adam and Eve as proof that polygamy, polyandry and polyamory are all verboten by God, then log off your computer as Adam and Eve didn't have one of those either. Besides, the two creation accounts differ on when God created a spouse for Adam. Did you ever hear of Lilith? |
31st October 2016, 01:22 PM | #10 |
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 14,588
|
|
__________________
A man's best friend is his dogma. |
|
31st October 2016, 01:31 PM | #11 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
|
You'd think after all those centuries they'd go more along a Marquis de Sade route.
|
31st October 2016, 01:35 PM | #12 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 23,499
|
|
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
|
31st October 2016, 01:47 PM | #13 |
Membership Drive
Co-Ordinator, Russell's Antinomy Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: ...1888 miles from home by the shortest route without tolls...
Posts: 17,348
|
|
__________________
"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
|
31st October 2016, 01:56 PM | #14 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 23,499
|
|
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
|
31st October 2016, 02:01 PM | #15 |
Membership Drive
Co-Ordinator, Russell's Antinomy Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: ...1888 miles from home by the shortest route without tolls...
Posts: 17,348
|
|
__________________
"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
|
31st October 2016, 02:04 PM | #16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 23,499
|
|
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
|
31st October 2016, 02:07 PM | #17 |
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 14,588
|
|
__________________
A man's best friend is his dogma. |
|
31st October 2016, 02:11 PM | #18 |
Membership Drive
Co-Ordinator, Russell's Antinomy Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: ...1888 miles from home by the shortest route without tolls...
Posts: 17,348
|
|
__________________
"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
|
31st October 2016, 02:15 PM | #19 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 23,499
|
|
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
|
31st October 2016, 02:41 PM | #20 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 816
|
Just testing to see if I can post.
Why is my name faded? What does that mean? |
31st October 2016, 02:48 PM | #21 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 23,499
|
|
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
|
31st October 2016, 02:54 PM | #22 |
I say nay!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,892
|
Part 2: This time even more vague and vacuous
|
__________________
Memento Mori |
|
31st October 2016, 02:58 PM | #23 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 23,499
|
|
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
|
31st October 2016, 03:16 PM | #24 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
|
|
31st October 2016, 03:18 PM | #25 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,841
|
|
31st October 2016, 03:52 PM | #26 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 23,499
|
|
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
|
31st October 2016, 04:43 PM | #27 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
|
Signs of the End Times - Part Two
|
31st October 2016, 05:02 PM | #28 |
Membership Drive
Co-Ordinator, Russell's Antinomy Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: ...1888 miles from home by the shortest route without tolls...
Posts: 17,348
|
|
__________________
"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
|
31st October 2016, 05:08 PM | #29 |
Membership Drive
Co-Ordinator, Russell's Antinomy Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: ...1888 miles from home by the shortest route without tolls...
Posts: 17,348
|
|
__________________
"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
|
31st October 2016, 05:21 PM | #30 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,712
|
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8#post11564708
My point here is that your god is the inferior to Smith. Smith, for all his faults (and there were many) is not AS despicable as your god because Smith didn't murder children. So, if you're going to follow a delusion, it would be better to follow Smith than your god who murdered pretty much everyone. |
31st October 2016, 05:36 PM | #31 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,726
|
Paul now that we are in a new thread I have my two standard and as yet unanswered questions for you:
1. Why should I accept the existence of your deity to the exclusion of all others? Please provide your evidence; and 2. If Yahweh is against multiple marriage and sex outside of what we consider normal marriage (ie sex with slaves), why are several biblical characters who did just that considered to be righteous? (Ex. Abraham and Jacob) |
__________________
Questions, comments, queries, bitches, complaints, rude gestures and/or remarks? |
|
1st November 2016, 01:34 AM | #32 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,841
|
Here is another charming tale along these lines.
Genesis 38:13 It was told to Tamar, “Behold, your father-in-law is going up to Timnah to shear his sheep.” 14 So she removed her widow’s garments and covered herself with a veil, and wrapped herself, and sat in the gateway of Enaim, which is on the road to Timnah; for she saw that Shelah had grown up, and she had not been given to him as a wife. 15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a harlot, for she had covered her face. 16 So he turned aside to her by the road, and said, “Here now, let me come in to you”; for he did not know that she was his daughter-in-law. And she said, “What will you give me, that you may come in to me?” 17 He said, therefore, “I will send you a young goat from the flock.” She said, moreover, “Will you give a pledge until you send it?” 18 He said, “What pledge shall I give you?” And she said, “Your seal and your cord, and your staff that is in your hand.” So he gave them to her and went in to her, and she conceived by him. 19 Then she arose and departed, and removed her veil and put on her widow’s garments ... |
1st November 2016, 01:39 AM | #33 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: West Coast South Africa
Posts: 6,081
|
Good questions—at this point of history, my Deity as you call him, has yet to reveal himself as the only Creator, this has to be done by him showing his creative powers.
So presently he is displayed as just another god. But because I have the evidence of his sovereignty, I proclaim his word in expectation of his revelation which I get from the Scriptures. The righteousness of Abraham, was displayed in his readiness to offer Isaac up as a sacrifice with regards to the command of God. His taking of Hagar as a wife was a mistake, having listened to his wife. The traditions of that time were not in line with what God revealed through the laws that God gave to Moses—even in those laws Moses retained some of the traditions. So what is understood, where there is no law, there is no sin—it was the laws that were given by God that determined the behaviour of Israel. So Jacob was deceived, and what transpired was a marriage to another sister as well as the sisters’ slaves. The tradition was that a slave belonged to a person, so the children of the slave became the property of the owner. But with Abraham, a subsequent law was introduced to curtail this practice—( Lev 18:9 "'Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere. ) As with Jacob, this law was subsequently promulgated—( Lev 18:18 "'Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living. ) So the laws exposed what the patriarchs did, did not entirely match up to what God intended, so God had to give laws to direct the behaviour of man. So now Jesus comes and declares the perfect plan for marriage---but the Churches reject that decree and perpetuate the sin of adultery. Many of the people that I confront on this issue of divorce are not aware of this decree, so the Churches have failed to carry out the mandate of Jesus. Yet it is so clearly stated. So when the time comes for this practice to be ended, it will bring about a great degree of sorrow—but it is essential in order to curtail future adultery. So the END times--will be the END of sin |
__________________
Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
|
1st November 2016, 01:45 AM | #34 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: West Coast South Africa
Posts: 6,081
|
|
__________________
Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
|
1st November 2016, 01:47 AM | #35 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: West Coast South Africa
Posts: 6,081
|
|
__________________
Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
|
1st November 2016, 02:05 AM | #36 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,841
|
And they had enough children to populate a city? These children never learned to recognise their father, it seems.
Genesis 4:13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. 14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. 15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.Who were these people who might find and kill Cain after he murdered his brother Abel? God said, evidently, if anyone kills Cain, I will take seven lives in return, to avenge him. So who were all these people? ETA Moreover, a person who is a vagabond is not about to remain in one place long enough to marry his sister and have enough people as offspring to populate a city which he built himself. These are not the actions of a "vagabond". The solution to the conundrums of Cain is evidently that the ancient sources contain two different versions of the Cain saga. In one he is a criminal vagabond. In the other he is a founder-patriarch. A hint, to illustrate this. Compare the names of the descendants of Cain, and those of Seth. The list of names is more or less the same. The lists are duplicates: two versions of the same myth. There's lots of that sort of thing in the Bible, as in other myth cycles. It's not a literally true story, Paul. Far from it. |
1st November 2016, 02:38 AM | #37 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 23,499
|
|
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
|
1st November 2016, 04:58 AM | #38 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,726
|
In other words, just another story.
Quote:
If not, you have no more authority to do anything or influence anyone than any other fanboy, or book reviewer.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It is more likely that the so-called laws of Moses are a far later creation of a society, and given the authority of a legendary creator without regard to earlier myths and legends.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So is the decree for what to do with a false prophet.
Quote:
And you are looking forward to all those sinners being punished, aren't you? |
__________________
Questions, comments, queries, bitches, complaints, rude gestures and/or remarks? |
|
1st November 2016, 05:00 AM | #39 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
|
Signs of the End Times - Part Two
Creationists have tackled this problem. The general consensus appears to be that the incest prohibition didn't come about until fallen man had drifted far enough from the genetic perfection of Adam and Eve for incest to produce offspring with genetic disorders. Debate rages on if this was the result of random mutation accumulation over time or God explicitly cursing fallen man for the sin of Eve. Both sides make compelling arguments, for creationists. Some of the discussions I've heard but rarely seen in print got into some weird territory with speculation about if the incest prohibition would be lifted if genetic perfection could be restored. Creationists can get REALLY creepy and some seem to have a "thing" for thinking about ways they could bone their close relatives. |
1st November 2016, 06:05 AM | #40 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: West Coast South Africa
Posts: 6,081
|
You are probably not familiar with the Mitsvot—if you were you would clearly see that not all can be applied.
You should know what is done with false prophets those who blaspheme. I am looking forward to sinners coming to repentance. Jesus came to set straight that which the previous generation got wrong! |
__________________
Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|