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Old 17th November 2016, 01:50 PM   #521
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Premature welcome back.

Paul is suspended another 14 days as of yesterday.
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Old 17th November 2016, 02:00 PM   #522
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by gerdbonk View Post
Premature welcome back.

Paul is suspended another 14 days as of yesterday.
We know. It's annoying. Are there any good woo-woo threads where the protagonist doesn't get suspended after a few days of activity?
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Old 17th November 2016, 02:18 PM   #523
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
...Back on topic, or as on topic as this thread ever gets...
I was rather hoping "back on topic" might get away from the overly-beaten dead horse of rape & consider the original much-ballyhooed fantasy of the "end times." That's a broader topic of overarching interest to some splinter groups (read here knotheads) and provides more room for discussion (read here fun) than quibbling over one word in one prohibition.

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Old 17th November 2016, 02:45 PM   #524
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
I was rather hoping "back on topic" might get away from the overly-beaten dead horse of rape & consider the original much-ballyhooed fantasy of the "end times." That's a broader topic of overarching interest to some splinter groups (read here knotheads) and provides more room for discussion (read here fun) than quibbling over one word in one prohibition.
The thread has suffered from an apparent lack of focus because the title is misleading. Paul's contention seems to be that the specifics of that passage are bound up in his "End Times" mythology because he sees sexual immorality as the deciding factor of when an Armageddon is approaching. His recent (probably split to another thread) comments justifying the drowning of children in Noah's flood argued that such a thing was fine because sexual immorality had, in his opinion, lead to the paternal lineage of the drowned children being unknown. Not knowing who your biological father is seems to be a capital offense in PB's mythology.

I think the thread's real point is not really a discussion of End Times mythology, but an exploration of PB's psychology in relation to his severe issues around sex and race. I'm having a blast speculating on what life events could ferment such a twisted, bound and contorted view of human sexuality and ethnicity. I suspect there's an interracial child in his family somewhere he absolutely HATES and wishes to kill.
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Old 17th November 2016, 05:59 PM   #525
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Quote:
From Paul "3) Then as always the judgement of YHVH against those that commit adultery."

Except of course when Yahweh is OK with it. The Patriarchs and several of the Kings all had multiple wives - as Paul has defined this as adultery then he would have to accept that:

Abraham;
Issac;
Jacob;
David; and Solomon are all being punished for their adultery - except they weren't. the first three are honoured in Jewish faith for being the fathers of the faith and the second two were not only elevated to kingship, but were considered to be great kings in the Biblical presentation.

But... that means that Jesus (of the house of David, on both sides of the family!) is from adulterous relationships!!!!11!!

Thanks, Border Reiver! (Sorry, quotes may be unclear)

Last edited by Carlotta; 17th November 2016 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 17th November 2016, 07:18 PM   #526
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
We know. It's annoying. Are there any good woo-woo threads where the protagonist doesn't get suspended after a few days of activity?
I suspect that the frustration of not getting through to people and that from not being able to produce evidence as asked causes some to lose sight of the MA. It must be intensely frustrating to "know" something, be eager to share it and have no one respond as desired/expected.
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Old 18th November 2016, 12:58 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by gerdbonk View Post
Premature welcome back.

Paul is suspended another 14 days as of yesterday.
Strange that he didn't see that coming.

Indeed, as this is twice in two weeks, it's strange that he didn't see that second coming.
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Old 18th November 2016, 01:05 AM   #528
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Since you will be away from the Forum for a while longer, then when you return Paul Bethke please use some of your God powers and/or normal powers to show us mere human mortals that this God of yours does actually exist.

Thanks much.
As you may have noticed, Paul Bethke has, despite my many please, refused to provide this proof.
I have also pointed out to him that the two Bible quotes he was using as evidence of my supposed need to convert and repent, actually disproved the existence of his god. The fact that it is possible to exhume deceased murderers proves they have not been taken bodily into hell, and the complete absence of proof that should have been readily apparent 2,000 years ago shows that passage was sphericals too.
Paul Bethke, if you're reading this: you might want to reflect on this too, before you post any more ill-chosen Bible quotes that refute your own arguments as to the existence of this god of yours.
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Old 21st November 2016, 09:44 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
As you may have noticed, Paul Bethke has, despite my many please, refused to provide this proof.
I have also pointed out to him that the two Bible quotes he was using as evidence of my supposed need to convert and repent, actually disproved the existence of his god. The fact that it is possible to exhume deceased murderers proves they have not been taken bodily into hell, and the complete absence of proof that should have been readily apparent 2,000 years ago shows that passage was sphericals too.
Paul Bethke, if you're reading this: you might want to reflect on this too, before you post any more ill-chosen Bible quotes that refute your own arguments as to the existence of this god of yours.
Thanks much for your thoughts, but I can assure you that I am well aware of Paul Bethke.

After all, I was at the Forum and poking at him when he made the first of his many 'blinding' promises/threats/divine interventions/what-have-you about 16 years ago.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 11:41 AM   #530
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Thanks much for your thoughts, but I can assure you that I am well aware of Paul Bethke.

After all, I was at the Forum and poking at him when he made the first of his many 'blinding' promises/threats/divine interventions/what-have-you about 16 years ago.
You may have misunderstood me. Of course you are well aware of Paul Bethke: that wasn't my point.
What I was trying (and perhaps failing) to do was add to your point, in a post that was largely directed at Paul Bethke, not you.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 11:34 AM   #531
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Back to the thread title. What do all y'all think the odds are a Onamazu will be responsible for the next major catastrophe?
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Old 23rd November 2016, 11:55 AM   #532
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Back to the thread title. What do all y'all think the odds are a Onamazu will be responsible for the next major catastrophe?
Slim.

Can we get death by Yuki-onna instead?
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Old 23rd November 2016, 12:07 PM   #533
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
Slim.

Can we get death by Yuki-onna instead?
That'd be pretty much the opposite of global warming, wouldn't it?

Better than death by Yoko Ono I suppose, unless it's death by Yoko Ono snu-snu. It would be the auditory adventure of a lifetime.

I'll be on Holodeck 4.

Related:
http://img02.deviantart.net/c800/i/2...al-d6xfj86.jpg

(Before criticizing me for this post, kindly take note of the text on my avatar.)
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Old 8th December 2016, 11:30 AM   #534
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Back on the topic of right wing ******** making wild claims about Judaism:

Debunking Ben Shapiro’s Delusional and Revolting Interpretations of ‘Torah Judaism’
Quote:
The right-wing pundit spoke at Yeshiva University this week and said, ‘Transgender people are unfortunately suffering from a significant mental illness’
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Old 10th December 2016, 01:57 AM   #535
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Signs of the END

Greetings to ALL.

I am quite busy so I do not have the pleasure of debating with ALL the wise people on the Forum.

I have been suspended twice and as yet do not know why—I have requested an explanation, but have received none.

But none the less I am more than ever confident in my understanding of the will of the Creator than before.
The Scriptures are complex but not complicated if one starts from the beginning, believing that the Creator is the designer of all.

So taken everything into account, there is only one way in which Yahweh can prove his sovereignty, and that is to display his creative power. This has always been the way, and will be the manner in the nearby future.

The method that was employed in liberating the Hebrews out of bondage, will be the same way that Yahweh will subdue the earth and establish his Kingdom on earth through the Church.

Exo 9:15 By now I could have stretched out my hand and struck you and your people with such severe plagues that you would have been wiped off the earth. Exo 9:16 But it is for this very reason that I have kept you alive — to show you my power, and so that my Name may resound throughout the whole earth.

So the display of the POWER of Yahweh is to establish his Name throughout the world at that time, and will be the same reason in this time.
So in the same way that Yahweh used Moses, a man, he will repeat that in this day.

Exo 4:21 The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.

So God gives power to men to demonstrate his sovereignty---this is also confirmed in Revelation.
(Rev 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." )

This power is at the disposal of men to do whatever they like in order to fulfill the words of God, in establishing his Kingdom on earth.
( Rev 11:6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. )

As I mentioned, I am quite busy, so I will have little time to respond to the avalanche of response.

And remember this is an END time prediction, so maybe I will not be suspended again.
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Old 10th December 2016, 02:42 AM   #536
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To be clear, yours is one of many, many end time predictions with nothing to recommend it over any other.

As to this power, if it exists, obviously you don't have any of it so I'm not sure why you brought it up. As for plagues, sorry, no need for gods to explain those; we've got that covered.
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Old 10th December 2016, 03:04 AM   #537
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
That'd be pretty much the opposite of global warming, wouldn't it?

Better than death by Yoko Ono I suppose, unless it's death by Yoko Ono snu-snu. It would be the auditory adventure of a lifetime.

I'll be on Holodeck 4.

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http://img02.deviantart.net/c800/i/2...al-d6xfj86.jpg

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Wont Lois be upset?

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Old 10th December 2016, 05:31 AM   #538
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
To be clear, yours is one of many, many end time predictions with nothing to recommend it over any other.

As to this power, if it exists, obviously you don't have any of it so I'm not sure why you brought it up. As for plagues, sorry, no need for gods to explain those; we've got that covered.
Yes, yes, I am well aware of what you say—but we must put an END to all these end time predictions, which are not the real END.

You see the END is not the end, but the beginning, this is where I differ with the end time predictors. It is putting an END to sin, and not the end of the world.

Hope you are better informed now?

The power will come in due time!
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Old 10th December 2016, 05:45 AM   #539
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
Wont Lois be upset?

Separate universes. In some Timelines he's shagging Wonder Woman. In others it's Lois. I don't follow the current DC reboot / rebirth madness, so I don't know if there were any periods where one had reason to be jealous of the other.
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Old 10th December 2016, 05:58 AM   #540
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Signs of the End Times - Part Two

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Yes, yes, I am well aware of what you say—but we must put an END to all these end time predictions, which are not the real END.



You see the END is not the end, but the beginning, this is where I differ with the end time predictors. It is putting an END to sin, and not the end of the world.



Hope you are better informed now?



The power will come in due time!

Same old, same old. Still no reason for us to consider your false prophet ass any more reliable than any other false prophet.

BTW: I'm pretty sure your repeated suspensions are for personal insults. I'm basing that upon what I remember of the comments that were edited for rule breaches. You have demonstrated a consistent problem with criticizing the person marking an argument instead of the argument itself. Specifically, I've noticed you are fond of claiming people don't agree with you because they aren't smart enough to understand your arguments. You then threaten us with divine retribution, which often crosses the line into threats, something else banned on the forum.

While getting nasty and personal with ad hominem attacks works well in politics, the moderators here crack down on it when used against forum members.

I can call you a false prophet because, by the very Biblical standards you espouse, you are a false prophet.

I can criticize your laughably incompetent efforts at using Hebrew and Greek to support your arguments because I'm using factual grounds to criticize the arguments. I CANNOT however call you too stupid to understand the Greek or Hebrew you're trying to use. That would be a personal insult, not an argument about your claims.

Do you see the difference?

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Old 10th December 2016, 08:27 AM   #541
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Yes, yes, I am well aware of what you say—but we must put an END to all these end time predictions, which are not the real END.

You see the END is not the end, but the beginning, this is where I differ with the end time predictors. It is putting an END to sin, and not the end of the world.

Hope you are better informed now?

The power will come in due time!
Sin doesn't matter when we have laws. We don't need biblical rules when our secular laws are better.
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Old 10th December 2016, 10:02 AM   #542
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Sin doesn't matter when we have laws. We don't need biblical rules when our secular laws are better.


This.

Secular laws are far more comprehensive, deal with harm to real people, and tend to be far less morally reprehensible.
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Old 10th December 2016, 10:40 AM   #543
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
I have been suspended twice and as yet do not know why—I have requested an explanation, but have received none.
I'm guessing it's because you keep calling everyone stupid when they point out your mistakes.

Quote:
The Scriptures are complex but not complicated...
A proper understanding of any ancient documents -- especially ones to which so much socio-political baggage has been attached -- requires a thorough systematic study of history, language, and culture. Your problem is that you have done none of that, yet claim to have reached the pinnacle of erudition. When confronted with the factual and historical problems with your arguments, you simply tell people they can't possibly be as smart as you are and that's that. That's why you get suspended.

Quote:
So taken everything into account, there is only one way in which Yahweh can prove his sovereignty, and that is to display his creative power. This has always been the way, and will be the manner in the nearby future.
But the problem is that there is never any proof of causation. Something happens and the congregants just attribute it to their god. Regular people claim special privilege in the name of that god but then never manage to rise above what they would ordinarily have been capable of.

Quote:
So in the same way that Yahweh used Moses, a man, he will repeat that in this day.
See above. When a god insists on working through mortal intermediaries who exhibit natural human tendencies, as did Moses, then it doesn't constitute proof of the sovereignty of the god. It constitutes instead a ramshackle excuse for why the evidence doesn't match the claim. It constitutes proof for God only in the same way that Norman Bates' dialogue in Psycho constitutes proof his mother is still alive. (Oops, spoiler.)

Quote:
This power is at the disposal of men to do whatever they like in order to fulfill the words of God, in establishing his Kingdom on earth.
No, it doesn't say in Revelation that the witnesses had carte blanche. Their specific powers are enumerated. When they act is up to them, but what they can do is spelled out.

But then again there's the problem with the mortal proxies. What kind of god gives up his omnipotence to fallible, capricious mortals to do with as they please? We're back to the same evidentiary problem. God proves his existence and power by hiding behind mortals and letting them do whatever they way. That's indistinguishable from mortals doing whatever they want and blaming a superstition for the consequences.

Quote:
As I mentioned, I am quite busy, so I will have little time to respond to the avalanche of response.
Disappointing how you're not too busy to come preach, but too busy to take responsibility for the preaching. The witnesses in Jerusalem were busier than you, but seemed to find the time lay dead in the streets and be risen up again. You want us to accept that you are confident. But the difference between confidence and bluster is precisely that confident people face their critics head-on. Blustery people say their piece and then run away before they have to answer hard questions.
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Old 10th December 2016, 10:58 AM   #544
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Hope you are better informed now?
Well, no, you're just playing word games. It doesn't matter whether you call it the "end times" or the "Happy Funtime Apocalypse-a-Palooza," the theme remains the same: it's the hypothetical time when the self-proclaimed righteous get rewarded for persecuting all the right people here on Earth in God's name, and everyone who opposed religion gets burned to a crisp.

Quote:
The power will come in due time!
See, most rational people don't respond to such threats. The threat of incarceration keeps me from committing criminal offenses, because that's real power. It doesn't rely on proxies or elaborate scenarios to connect purported cause to purported effect. Therefore the police and judiciary have some justification to appear self-important. They are important. Similarly, the threat of physical harm compels me to hand over my wallet to an armed assailant. While brutish, the power is real and not promissory or illusory.

When real power is not hard to find, religious bluster simply falls short. For two thousand years Christians have been warning us that we'd better behave and obey them otherwise God is gonna endow them with supreme power and wipe us all out. There's no actual power in evidence. Oh sure, there's the illusion of power wielded ecclesiastically by people who convince others they speak for that God and that by doing what the human proxies say they'll be spared. That evaporates pretty quickly when it's revealed to be a con.
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Old 10th December 2016, 03:16 PM   #545
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Greetings to ALL.

I am quite busy so I do not have the pleasure of debating with ALL the wise people on the Forum.

I have been suspended twice and as yet do not know why—I have requested an explanation, but have received none.

But none the less I am more than ever confident in my understanding of the will of the Creator than before.
The Scriptures are complex but not complicated if one starts from the beginning, believing that the Creator is the designer of all.

So taken everything into account, there is only one way in which Yahweh can prove his sovereignty, and that is to display his creative power. This has always been the way, and will be the manner in the nearby future.

The method that was employed in liberating the Hebrews out of bondage, will be the same way that Yahweh will subdue the earth and establish his Kingdom on earth through the Church.

Exo 9:15 By now I could have stretched out my hand and struck you and your people with such severe plagues that you would have been wiped off the earth. Exo 9:16 But it is for this very reason that I have kept you alive — to show you my power, and so that my Name may resound throughout the whole earth.

So the display of the POWER of Yahweh is to establish his Name throughout the world at that time, and will be the same reason in this time.
So in the same way that Yahweh used Moses, a man, he will repeat that in this day.

Exo 4:21 The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.

So God gives power to men to demonstrate his sovereignty---this is also confirmed in Revelation.
(Rev 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." )

This power is at the disposal of men to do whatever they like in order to fulfill the words of God, in establishing his Kingdom on earth.
( Rev 11:6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. )

As I mentioned, I am quite busy, so I will have little time to respond to the avalanche of response.

And remember this is an END time prediction, so maybe I will not be suspended again.
Since you are so pressed for time then I suppose that it is a good thing that you are immortal and have God as your BFF.
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Old 12th December 2016, 12:58 AM   #546
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Well, no, you're just playing word games. It doesn't matter whether you call it the "end times" or the "Happy Funtime Apocalypse-a-Palooza," the theme remains the same: it's the hypothetical time when the self-proclaimed righteous get rewarded for persecuting all the right people here on Earth in God's name, and everyone who opposed religion gets burned to a crisp.
Not so righteousness comes from adherence to the laws of the Creator, it cannot be attained from any other source. The most important perception is to understand that the Creator is justified in his actions, it is not to relish the suffering of humanity, but to eradicate suffering.

This is evident today with all the acts of terror, remove those who believe that they have a cause to inflict terror. There is a vast amount of evidence regarding the terror that man has inflicted upon man.

The true purpose of the Gospel is to prepare people to meet with God—man’s natural instinct is to flee from the holy presence of God, so a procedure is necessary to accustom man to live in the holy Presence of God.
Quote:
See, most rational people don't respond to such threats. The threat of incarceration keeps me from committing criminal offenses, because that's real power. It doesn't rely on proxies or elaborate scenarios to connect purported cause to purported effect. Therefore the police and judiciary have some justification to appear self-important. They are important. Similarly, the threat of physical harm compels me to hand over my wallet to an armed assailant. While brutish, the power is real and not promissory or illusory.
True, but as I have just stated, it is a process to live in the presence of God—so you being a law abiding person with the highest moral character, will still have to become acquainted with the holy presence of Yahweh.

The just laws of man does not equip him to automatically come into the presence of God. A just person should see the justice of God and accept his sovereignty.

My point is that there should be no armed assailants to terrorise people, so deal with the armed assailant in a way that they cease their terror, or remove the assailant from society.

Quote:
When real power is not hard to find, religious bluster simply falls short. For two thousand years Christians have been warning us that we'd better behave and obey them otherwise God is gonna endow them with supreme power and wipe us all out. There's no actual power in evidence. Oh sure, there's the illusion of power wielded ecclesiastically by people who convince others they speak for that God and that by doing what the human proxies say they'll be spared. That evaporates pretty quickly when it's revealed to be a con.
You are completely correct, and I agree with you in that there has been no evidence of any power to demonstrate the sovereignty of a Creator. This is because as I see it, the purpose of God the Creator was and is not understood, if that were the case, evidence would have been forthcoming.

Someone on the Forum once said that God cannot not act on mundane circumstances, but must start and complete his purpose in one event. So when the will and purpose of God the Creator is FULLY understood, then Yahweh can start and complete his purpose in setting up his Kingdom on this earth.
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Old 12th December 2016, 01:09 AM   #547
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Sin doesn't matter when we have laws. We don't need biblical rules when our secular laws are better.
You are correct, but as I have just said---your laws do not equip you to come into the holy presence of God.
Your laws should be on a par with the laws of God, and many of them are not.
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Old 12th December 2016, 02:09 AM   #548
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Same old, same old. Still no reason for us to consider your false prophet ass any more reliable than any other false prophet.

BTW: I'm pretty sure your repeated suspensions are for personal insults. I'm basing that upon what I remember of the comments that were edited for rule breaches. You have demonstrated a consistent problem with criticizing the person marking an argument instead of the argument itself. Specifically, I've noticed you are fond of claiming people don't agree with you because they aren't smart enough to understand your arguments. You then threaten us with divine retribution, which often crosses the line into threats, something else banned on the forum.

While getting nasty and personal with ad hominem attacks works well in politics, the moderators here crack down on it when used against forum members.

I can call you a false prophet because, by the very Biblical standards you espouse, you are a false prophet.

I can criticize your laughably incompetent efforts at using Hebrew and Greek to support your arguments because I'm using factual grounds to criticize the arguments. I CANNOT however call you too stupid to understand the Greek or Hebrew you're trying to use. That would be a personal insult, not an argument about your claims.

Do you see the difference?
I will keep that in mind!
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Old 12th December 2016, 02:11 AM   #549
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Since you are so pressed for time then I suppose that it is a good thing that you are immortal and have God as your BFF.
Time has no meaning to an immortal----

2 Peter_3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
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Old 12th December 2016, 02:35 AM   #550
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You are correct, but as I have just said---your laws do not equip you to come into the holy presence of God.
Your laws should be on a par with the laws of God, and many of them are not.
I don't submit to being governed by your god. Clearly billions of people do not submit to being governed by your god. I can do this with impunity because your god can't stop me from breaking his laws. Where are your god's police? Where are his courts? Vague threats and failed attempts do not a government make.
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Old 12th December 2016, 05:31 AM   #551
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post

The true purpose of the Gospel is to prepare people to meet with God—man’s natural instinct is to flee from the holy presence of God, so a procedure is necessary to accustom man to live in the holy Presence of God.
Is it? Really? How does that work then? Natural instincts are honed by millions of years of evolution. I have never felt the need to "flee from the holy presence of god" because I have never encountered such. Neither, as far as I know, has anyone else in any kind of verifiable circumstance.
Then we have the thorny problem of why people would instinctively flee the presence of what is supposed to be the ultimate good.
Also, how can you flee something that is omnipresent?
Plus, even if we, for the sake of argument, accept that your made-up fairy tales are true, then there are no "natural instincts". The only instincts are what god put into us. Why would he create an instinct to flee his presence, whilst insisting that the true purpose of our lives is to follow his laws so as to spend all eternity in his presence? Is heaven full of dead people desperately trying to get out?


Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You are completely correct, and I agree with you in that there has been no evidence of any power to demonstrate the sovereignty of a Creator. This is because as I see it, the purpose of God the Creator was and is not understood, if that were the case, evidence would have been forthcoming.

Someone on the Forum once said that God cannot not act on mundane circumstances, but must start and complete his purpose in one event. So when the will and purpose of God the Creator is FULLY understood, then Yahweh can start and complete his purpose in setting up his Kingdom on this earth.
I've read this three times, and I cannot make head nor tail of it.
You appear to be saying that your omnipotent deity cannot do anything until people understand what he is trying to do, and he can't explain what that is either, possibly because of some special clause in the Rules of Godhood that says he has to do it in one go, even though any and all of these things would be trivially easy for an all-powerful god.
Is that what you're saying?
It's really no wonder you haven't made any converts. Why would anyone subscribe to this ridiculous nonsense?
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Old 12th December 2016, 05:51 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You are correct, but as I have just said---your laws do not equip you to come into the holy presence of God.
Your laws should be on a par with the laws of God, and many of them are not.
Exactly, most secular laws are far better, and the rest are equal. The prohibitions against theft, murder, and perjury are reasonable laws that the legendary Moses cribbed from every earlier civilization and written legal code and do not require the imaginary authority of an imaginary being for validity.

Many of the Biblical laws fall far short of the standards set by most secular legal systems - the laws concerning rape are an excellent example. The laws are arbitrary in their application, as their application varies based on the location of the alleged offence, or the status of the victim. Furthermore, the ability of the perpetrator to pay a sum of money to an uninvolved third party and then marry the victim, reduces the victim to the level of damaged property, not as a human being. And of course the laws are also silent about homosexual rape, or female on male rape, which should render the Biblical laws concerning rape as less inclusive or effective then modern laws.
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Old 12th December 2016, 05:56 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Time has no meaning to an immortal----



2 Peter_3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.


Does water have no meaning to you simply because you don't expect to ever run out of it? It may have less meaning in a place of plenty than in a place of drought, but that doesn't render it valueless.

And don't we, in areas where there IS plenty of water, have empathy for and and a desire to aid those stricken by drought?
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Old 12th December 2016, 05:58 AM   #554
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Is it? Really? How does that work then? Natural instincts are honed by millions of years of evolution. I have never felt the need to "flee from the holy presence of god" because I have never encountered such.

If you did encounter the Biblical deity I would think it perfectly natural to flee from an entity that orders genocide, engages in ethnic cleansing and demands a virgin who is raped be sold to her rapist.
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Old 12th December 2016, 06:24 AM   #555
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Not so righteousness comes from adherence to the laws of the Creator, it cannot be attained from any other source. The most important perception is to understand that the Creator is justified in his actions, it is not to relish the suffering of humanity, but to eradicate suffering.
Not so, the only direct actions that Yahweh is supposed to have taken have been to introduce death and disease into the world, caused people to have to work hard for bare survival, introduced murder into the world, lets not forget the alleged near genocide of all life, and then there's all the mischief he is said to have caused by "giving" his people land already occupied by other people, resulting in either a genocidal war of extermination (if you believe the Biblical account) or absolutely nothing (if the archeological and historical evidence is believed). Frankly, all this Yahweh has done is cause suffering.

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This is evident today with all the acts of terror, remove those who believe that they have a cause to inflict terror. There is a vast amount of evidence regarding the terror that man has inflicted upon man.
Much of it done in the name of their interpretation of Yahweh.

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The true purpose of the Gospel is to prepare people to meet with God—man’s natural instinct is to flee from the holy presence of God, so a procedure is necessary to accustom man to live in the holy Presence of God.
It is a healthy response to move away from psychopathic beings with a propensity to engage in abusive relationships. And honestly, why would we want to be in the presence of a being who can't or won't explain his rules unless it's ex post facto, asks us to sacrifice our children (then goes "Just kidding! I only wanted to see if you were serious about following my every command, and since I see you are - here's a sheep and I have a taste for mutton.")

Quote:
True, but as I have just stated, it is a process to live in the presence of God—so you being a law abiding person with the highest moral character, will still have to become acquainted with the holy presence of Yahweh.
By his works shall we know him.

And based on those works, he's a psychopath with strong misogynistic and narcissistic tendencies. Why would I want to be in his presence again?

Quote:
The just laws of man does not equip him to automatically come into the presence of God. A just person should see the justice of God and accept his sovereignty.
Many of the laws of Yahweh are not just, or are completely arbitrary with no practical effect on morality (the wearing of a phylactery and the blue fringe on clothing for example).

Quote:
My point is that there should be no armed assailants to terrorise people, so deal with the armed assailant in a way that they cease their terror, or remove the assailant from society.
Then the state becomes the creator of fear, since Yahweh relies on real people to do his dirty work.

Quote:
You are completely correct, and I agree with you in that there has been no evidence of any power to demonstrate the sovereignty of a Creator. This is because as I see it, the purpose of God the Creator was and is not understood, if that were the case, evidence would have been forthcoming.
If there is no evidence of a creator, why should we accept that it exists?
If it doesn't exist, why should we follow the rules attributed to it?

Quote:
Someone on the Forum once said that God cannot not act on mundane circumstances, but must start and complete his purpose in one event. So when the will and purpose of God the Creator is FULLY understood, then Yahweh can start and complete his purpose in setting up his Kingdom on this earth.
Why should an omnipotent and omnipresent being be so limited?
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Old 12th December 2016, 07:57 AM   #556
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I'm fairly sure I pointed out to Paul many, many pages back that II Peter is a forgery.
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Old 12th December 2016, 08:04 AM   #557
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Not so righteousness comes from adherence to the laws of the Creator...
And if you could prove there were any sort of actual deity behind that, you'd have a point. Self-righteousness comes from inventing a creator, projecting your motives onto him, absolving yourself of any secular responsibility for what actions follow from those motives, and declaring yourself to be special because of it.

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The just laws of man does not equip him to automatically come into the presence of God. A just person should see the justice of God and accept his sovereignty.
No, that sort of rhetoric just scares people into doing what the self-righteous say their god wants, which is the sort of secular power you seem to aspire to. I see no god. I see that all the nonsensical crap you attribute to your god, such as sexism and racism, is no sort of justice. I find the laws we make and enforce among ourselves to be both eminently more powerful and more just because the people who make and enforce them are themselves subject to review and sanction. They're not the whim of some person who says that's what an ancient superstition would demand.

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You are completely correct, and I agree with you in that there has been no evidence of any power to demonstrate the sovereignty of a Creator.
Then you should start behaving as if you had no evidence of the correctness of your claims. Be appropriately deferential.
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Old 12th December 2016, 08:16 AM   #558
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You are correct, but as I have just said---your laws do not equip you to come into the holy presence of God.
Your laws should be on a par with the laws of God, and many of them are not.
Secular laws will never be on par with Biblical laws unless our society embraces genocide and genetic guilt.

Donald Trump on terrorists: 'Take out their families'

We'd also need to legally formalize the reduction of women to property and incubators instead of human beings with individual rights and agency.

Ohio’s new abortion law is an assault on Roe.

Crap.
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Old 12th December 2016, 08:33 AM   #559
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Time has no meaning to an immortal----

2 Peter_3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Quite true! Time has no meaning to an immortal.

However, there are many, many, many things which have no meaning to insane person.
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Old 12th December 2016, 08:41 AM   #560
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
I'm fairly sure I pointed out to Paul many, many pages back that II Peter is a forgery.
No it cannot be a forgery—why forge the truth—no it harmonises with other Scriptures.
It was included in the Bible after careful scrutiny.

2 Peter 3:1 Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking.
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