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1st November 2016, 06:07 AM | #41 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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1st November 2016, 06:27 AM | #42 |
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And yet you refuse to specify your ACTUAL criteria to explain why you do not, for example, follow the grooming and clothing laws.
You claim Passover is not relevant to you because of the sacrifice of Christ, even though Passover is celebrated to commemorate the Jews being freed from slavery in Egypt, an act still celebrated and talked about by Christians in general. You dismissed discussion of the perfectly feasible Mitzvot you choose not to follow as "futile." Your claim to care about following the Mitzvot is a demonstrable lie. You want to keep kosher but it's clear you disregard many other Mitzvot not upon a criteria of what is and is not possible, but what you do and do not feel like doing. Do you observe the Sabbath as ordered in the law? Seeing as you are a proven false prophet who blasphemes the Lord by proclaiming yourself infallible, you're going to get a very up close and personal demonstration of how God deals with such abominations in the afterlife. Then you should lead by example and start by repenting for the sin of Pride. |
1st November 2016, 06:28 AM | #43 | ||
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Yet Jesus said that he did not come to change a word of the law, meaning that, if you are one of his followers, you follow the Mizvot. All of it. So, how long are your tassels? Are you following all the high feasts? Etc. Otherwise you are doing exactly what you accuse others of doing and picking and choosing what you like from the Bible and ignoring the rest.
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1st November 2016, 06:42 AM | #44 |
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1st November 2016, 07:08 AM | #45 |
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Palpable irony: you, personally, calling into question another's familiarity with "the Mitsvot"...(and further proof that "infallibility" dose not seem to apply to linguistics).
The point is not whether all the Law "can be" applied. You are on record as claiming that your Jesus was said to be said to insist that none of the Law could be set aside; yet here you are, setting yourself as arbiter of which of the Law can no longer be applied. All the while continuing to ignore the point of "Peter's" "vision". Again, your "infallibility" does not seem to encompass lucid communication. Here, you appear to be equivocating "false prophets" and "those who blaspheme"; from you own experience, you know that there is more than one way to be a "false prophet"--for instance, one can make a string of Good luck. Then why do you continue to misrepresent him? |
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1st November 2016, 07:14 AM | #46 |
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And how many of those have you managed?
That's right, still zero. That's the understatement of the year. If you have such understanding why do you have a 100% failure rate in prophesy and miracle working? If you have such understanding why are you constantly humiliated in your tortured, inept attempts at Biblical interpretation? How do you expect anyone to believe you understand the will of a god when you are so woefully, laughably ignorant of his / her words? In about 50 feet of raw sewage. |
1st November 2016, 07:29 AM | #47 |
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No one person can abrogate the whole mitzvoth—but no one can follow all the decrees, as some apply to the Temple, the high Priest, farmers woman—A person can adhere to the Covenant, and the dietary laws—no need for tassels. Only the Sabbath. Do trim my hair and beard. Do adhere to the moral section----as a builder I would put a parapet around my roof, do not mix breed animals.
I am not a farmer--- 210. To let the land lie fallow in the Sabbatical year (Ex. 23:11; Lev. 25:2) (affirmative) (CCI20). 211. To cease from tilling the land in the Sabbatical year (Ex. 23:11) (affirmative) (Lev. 25:2) (CCI21). 212. Not to till the ground in the Sabbatical year (Lev. 25:4) (negative) (CCI22). 213. Not to do any work on the trees in the Sabbatical year (Lev. 25:4) (negative) (CCI23). 214. Not to reap the aftermath that grows in the Sabbatical year, in the same way as it is reaped in other years (Lev. 25:5) (negative) (CCI24). 215. Not to gather the fruit of the tree in the Sabbatical year in the same way as it is gathered in other years (Lev. 25:5) (negative) (CCI25).
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Many of those laws are in the present system of governing. Many of those laws that are violated have resulted in the corruption of the world—especially the sexually perverse and dietary laws. One can trace the neglect of those laws to the present ills of mankind, and womankind. Israel was intended to be the light to the nations, but has failed, so now the purged Church will arise to rectify everything and bring the Kingdom of God into effect, adopting many of the laws in the Torah. |
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1st November 2016, 07:38 AM | #48 |
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Do you follow these? By the logic you've stated on this forum you should.
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm 17. To circumcise the male offspring (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3) (CCA47) See Brit Milah: Circumcision. 18. To put tzitzit on the corners of clothing (Num. 15:38) (CCA10). See Tzitzit and Tallit. 19. To bind tefillin on the head (Deut. 6:8) (CCA9). See Tefillin. 20. To bind tefillin on the arm (Deut. 6:8) (CCA8). See Tefillin. 21. To affix the mezuzah to the doorposts and gates of your house (Deut. 6:9) (CCA12). See Mezuzah. Posting lists of rules you are physically incapable of following does not negate the fact that there are others you're perfectly capable of following yet choose not to. I encourage everyone in this thread to follow this link and find a Mitzvot or two that are perfectly reasonable for a city dweller in modern times to practice and ask Paul if he obeys it. |
1st November 2016, 07:42 AM | #49 |
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Your understanding of the vision given to Peter is a sure indication that you know nothing of prophecy. You may know words. But I have knowledge of those words.
I do not misrepresent Jesus in any way—in actual fact I uphold his prophecies—you see Sir the Jews no longer have a Temple, so naturally all laws pertaining to the service of the Temple are redundant. The parallel between the Temple service and the purged Church replaces many of the Mitsvot, so now it is to understand which they are. |
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1st November 2016, 07:47 AM | #50 |
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And yet when I started the thread Paul Bethke vs the 613 Mitzvot asking you to clarify what rules were and were not relevant, you dismissed the task as "futile."
Make up your mind. Is understanding which of the Mitzvot we should be following "futile" or not?" If it's so important that Christians follow a selection of those rules, why do you, who claims to be the only person who truly understands God's logic for which rules should be followed, dismiss efforts to elucidate them as "futile?" |
1st November 2016, 07:50 AM | #51 | ||
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All dietary laws, and laws pertaining to sexual immorality are essential to the faith. Judicial laws are not supported by all, especially the death sentence. So when the Kingdom of God materialises then much of the Mitsvot will come into effect. |
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1st November 2016, 07:55 AM | #52 |
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Oh come on PB. Genesis is utterly borked beyond belief.
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Still only Adam, Eve and Cain.
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And welcome to the city of Enoch, Population: 3
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Let us be generous and assume they married some women who came from somewhere. In the land of Nod where Cain is building a city we now have Cain, Mrs. Cain, Enoch, Mrs. Enoch, Irad, Mrs. Irad, Mehujael, Mrs. Mehujael, Methusael, and Mrs. Methusael. Oh and Lamech. More about him shortly. Welcome to the city of Enoch, Population: 11.
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Where was gunderscored throughout all of this? Doesn't seem to care really. Cain is building a civilisation not being "a fugitive and a vagabond" as gunderscored promised/threatened.
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Right so Cain is of in the land of Nod building a civilisation but only now do Adam and Eve get around to doing anything. OK now in the land of Adam and Eve we have Adam, Eve and Seth.
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1st November 2016, 08:00 AM | #53 |
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1st November 2016, 08:28 AM | #54 |
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Your "knowledge" of "those words" does not appear to encompass their actual meanings; instead, you make free to alter what is written, sacrificing the actual meanings upon the altar of your prejudice, racism, and misogyny.
You have made it clear that, to you, "scripture" means exactly what you want it to mean--no more, no less. The very model of a modern false prophet... How long are your tassels? How broad is the strap of your phylactery? How many of your shirts are poly-cotton? Was the leather of your shoes produced according to kosher? How far did you drive (and how many electric devices did you use) last Sabbath? When did you celebrate your last jubilee year? ...and so forth... Right. You get to decide what parts of the Law (the one of which your Jesus was said to be said to have insisted that not one jot nor one tiddle would pass away) you, personally, are not bound by. No misrepresentation there... (BTW: Your "infallibility" and your grammar seem to be at odds, and it is compromising your comprehensibility.) |
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1st November 2016, 08:33 AM | #55 |
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1st November 2016, 08:44 AM | #56 |
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Confused and inconsistent ideas cannot be improved by better clarity in stating them.
In the previous thread, Paul mocked Orthodox Jews for their appearance. I came away from that portion of the thread with the impression that Paul was simply unaware of the grooming and clothing laws in the Old Testament. I suspect he may still be ignorant of the Biblical foundation of the distinctive dress and hairstyle of an Orthodox Jew. The result is that the 613 Mitzvot is essentially a stockpile of "got-ya" questions for Paul. Having declared assessing them to be "futile" despite the importance he places upon them, he's painted himself into the proverbial corner. There are a number of laws he clearly does not follow that he has no real excuse for ignoring. This makes him, in a Biblical sense, the lukewarm Christian, neither hot nor cold, neither Gentile nor Jew, that the apostles said would be spit out by God. The sad thing is, I gave him an opportunity to avoid this problem while elaborating on his theology by offering to go through the list with him in another tread. If he'd gone through those laws with us when I started the thread, he could have ironed out a lot of inconsistencies in his theology without us being the wiser. And then there's this absurd claim of infallibility. That's just a dumb claim to make in any debate. I means he has to defend any mistake he makes, and he makes a lot, to the bitter end. |
1st November 2016, 08:50 AM | #57 |
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I will try and improve my grammar.
My knowledge of the will of the Creator is very good—the inauguration of the Kingdom of God is the pivotal essence. Faith is not external, but is inward, so the display of phylacteries does not have an aspect in faith. Rom 2:28 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. Rom 2:29 No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God. So the same applies to those who have faith in Jesus as the Messiah. But you with your lack of knowledge could not possibly understand such insight. |
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1st November 2016, 08:51 AM | #58 |
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Allow me to explain:
Clearly, the women were born well before Cain killed Able. They just were't discussed in the Cain and Able story until the end for the same reason the women are rarely mentioned in the genealogies. Misogyny. All the rest can be explained in two words: Incestuous polyamory. Clearly, monogamy wasn't really a "thing" until much later. |
1st November 2016, 09:07 AM | #59 | ||
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1st November 2016, 09:16 AM | #60 |
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So let's move along to Gen: 5, shall we?
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The remainder of chapter 5 is a drone of endless begats and improbable claims of longevity with two interesting exceptions
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What do we know? The father of C4 Lamech was Methusael. The father of C5 Lamech was Methusela. Coincidence? I think not. C4 Lamech took two wives. Where did they originate? C5 Lamech provides the answer. Lamech took those wives from the line of Seth. Moar incest. Added bonus, Lamech has now ingratiated himself back into gunderscored's favoured lineage thus avoiding the curse laid upon Cain that he would ever be a vagabond and a fugitive. Oh, wait, gunderscored failed at that too. And gunderscored is to useless to notice Lamech getting the camel's nose under the tent either. |
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1st November 2016, 09:30 AM | #61 |
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Paul,
These laws, among many others, pose a very real challenge to your stated theology: You do not follow them and you refuse to explain why. This doesn't merely challenge your claims of divine inspiration, it shatters them to atoms. Running from these questions does not make you look decisive or strong. It does not make the laws go away. It does not make the absurdity of insisting the Mitzvot are important while refusing to discuss them go away. Notice how I struck out the law on circumcision. That is because you HAVE addressed it with your quotes about spiritual circumcision. You've made it clear you believe faith in Christ achieves the same spiritual ends as physical circumcision. |
1st November 2016, 10:13 AM | #62 | ||||
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When directing a person in the path of repentance these law have no application to the faith.
As I have highlighted, the marital condition must first be addressed---there after the Covenant will apply, then in the event that a person complies further stipulations are presented. The dietary laws and the abstention of sexual immorality is presented, the elementary laws, do not lie, do not steal are applied. There is a dress code that is also applicable. The law of the land is to be respected. So the Mitsvot referring to morality is as I have said
When the Kingdom of God is established then there will be a consideration of what Mitsvot will apply—but the Temple and the priestly duties that accompany this will be abolished as Jesus will be on earth. So it is of no value to introduce this topic here, because there is a one that is already open
So stick to the topic of the END times. |
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1st November 2016, 10:18 AM | #63 |
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1st November 2016, 10:19 AM | #64 |
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Why would an "infallible" "prophet" with "perfect understanding" have to "try"?
I am as subject to typos as anyone, but then, I am not claiming that some 'god' made me "infallible". Seriously? Grammar and lexicon are the least of your worries... And yet, you make free to alter the "words" of your "creator", wholesale, at your whim. ...in other words, this is another of the Mitzvot that you, on your own authority, choose to disregard out of convenience; even though your own Jesus is said to be said to have insisted that none of the Law would pass away. Right. You don't contradict the things Jesus is said to be said to have said at all, do you? Odd kind of "infallibility" and"perfect understanding". I commend you to Matt. 23:23 ff. |
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1st November 2016, 10:21 AM | #65 |
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1st November 2016, 10:38 AM | #66 |
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It depends on what you consider to be the END times—Ezekiel surely speaks of things that will occur, which have not yet happened.
But I see the End times when YHVH will be acknowledged as the only God and Creator. This is what I envisage--- Eze 36:24 "'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. Eze 36:25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. Eze 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. Eze 36:28 You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God. Eze 36:29 I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. Eze 36:30 I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine. Eze 36:31 Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. Isa_45:23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. So there are still a lot of outstanding prophecies that needs to be fulfilled. |
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1st November 2016, 10:41 AM | #67 |
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1st November 2016, 10:43 AM | #68 |
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1st November 2016, 10:53 AM | #69 |
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Jesus said none of the laws will disappear—but the Temple has, the sacrifices for sin have.
Laws that apply to the people of Israel can be applied to Israel only—judicial laws pertaining to justice are applicable, but are contrary to laws in sovereign countries, like the death penalty. All the laws have an application if YHVH were in control—but seasons differ in lands and the time zones are different—so what would you do about the Sabbath, the times zone in Israel differs from many other place. The agricultural laws have a benefit—must people go to Israel to commemorate the feast three times a year—Israel could not accommodate all the people. How do you want me to apply Matthew 23:23? |
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1st November 2016, 10:54 AM | #70 |
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So, you admit that the dress code needs to be adhered to, but still refuse to discuss if you personally adhere to it.
Do YOU follow the dress code you admit is important? If not, why not? You seem to be implying that the dress code won't be necessary until people are following your particular interpretation of who they can and cannot have sex with. If that's the case, why do you insist the kosher laws need to be followed now? Sorry, but the this tread strayed off the topic of the End times WAAAY to long ago to put that genie back in the bottle. |
1st November 2016, 10:55 AM | #71 |
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1st November 2016, 10:59 AM | #72 |
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Sabbath laws are based upon local sundown and sunrise, not Jerusalem time. There are Jews all over the world who have figured out how to apply laws based upon local sunrise and sunset without reference to Jerusalem.
What exactly do you think is going on that you think time zone differences can make it difficult to observe the Sabbath? |
1st November 2016, 11:02 AM | #73 |
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1st November 2016, 11:12 AM | #74 |
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A dress code as stipulated—men to have short neat haircuts and trimmed beards.
Woman to dress modestly. Removal of tattoos.
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Sex is between a man and a woman, divorce and remarriage is adultery. And as I have stated on so many occasions –a man must marry a virgin, and a virgin must stay with the man who took her virginity—excluding rape.
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1st November 2016, 11:13 AM | #75 |
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Dude, are you TRYING to get this thread put on moderation by breaking the forum rules? Have you BEEN in a thread that's been on moderation on this forum? I have, and getting this thread put on moderation won't go well for you, but it'll be great for the rest of us. It'll mean everyone has a day or two to reply to every one of our comments before any of your responses show up. The replies will end up much more carefully researched and thought out. It will also mean your every reply will be picked over in MUCH greater detail. You can take a look at Homosexuality, Adoption and Gay Marriage (Split from LDS II) and its parent threads for some examples of what happens.
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1st November 2016, 11:14 AM | #76 |
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1st November 2016, 11:20 AM | #77 |
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Seriously?
I've repeatedly asked you about specific clothing laws and you're STILL not aware that they exist?
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No you don't, because you are obviously unaware of most of them. How about a Mezuzah? Got any of those on your doors?
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1st November 2016, 11:22 AM | #78 |
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1st November 2016, 11:28 AM | #79 |
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1st November 2016, 11:28 AM | #80 |
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Must then a man remain with a woman who took his virginity? Why are you unable to answer this
Must a man remain with a man who took his virginity? Must a woman remain with a woman who took her virginity? Can a man who is not a virgin marry any woman? One who is a virgin? One who is not? Can a woman who is not a virgin marry any man? One who is a virgin? One who is not? What happens if a man who is a virgin rapes a woman who is not a virgin? Are they compelled to marry forever without recourse to divorce? What if the man screams and the woman does not because she is the rapist and he is the victim? How about the reverse? You really have not thought this out have you? Would you like to move on to the nonsense of Gen: 6 yet? |
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