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2nd November 2016, 08:02 AM | #161 |
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That is exceptionally tortured logic not supported by the text you are quoting.
The passage creates a loophole for men who rape virgins who are not betrothed. What part of that are you having trouble understanding? https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-me...onomy-22-28-29
Quote:
https://gotquestions.org/Deuteronomy...ry-rapist.html
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http://www.equip.org/bible_answers/h...ry-her-rapist/
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Paul, If Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is not about rape, then please cite chapter and verse the Biblical punishment for raping a virgin who is not betrothed. |
2nd November 2016, 08:03 AM | #162 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:04 AM | #163 |
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You (and other scholars) are correct Border Reiver. There is zero evidence, historical or archeological of the "Conquest of Canaan" stories. No "Exodus", no "conquest of Canaan".
The ancient Israelites were just one tribal group that emerged after the ending of the Canaanite city-state system. Here is a TV documentary (proving there was no "conquest") for anyone with reading comprehension problems. (And entertaining for anyone who already knows the truth). http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient...d-secrets.html |
2nd November 2016, 08:07 AM | #164 |
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What shows that the girl was willing? The word used to describe the physical contact is the same word used (as we have seen) to describe a person being seized to be taken to a place of execution. So what evidence have you found that "shows that the girl was willing"? The evidence of the text indicates the very opposite.
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2nd November 2016, 08:12 AM | #165 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:14 AM | #166 |
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What "shows" that the girl was willing? There is NOTHING IN THE TEXT to indicate that. You've been corrected many times on this. The rapist can avoid execution by essentially buying his victim from her father.
ETA: I suspect that this exeption was added to the law later on in order to allow more prominent, and thus richer, members of the society to escape death by taking away the problem (i.e. wiping clean the "dishonor" to the father and his family). What a barbaric and antiquated way of doing things. |
2nd November 2016, 08:15 AM | #167 |
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What is there to understand, the girl consented. Deu 22:28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,
You see they are discovered, it infers that it was consensual. Marriage was an important factor in Israel—if they were not discovered, the girl at a latter stage could have been given to another man. In that case, there would be this situation--Deu 22:20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, So this being the case the man must marry the girl. Elementary. You are trying to make the laws of Moses obnoxious. |
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2nd November 2016, 08:16 AM | #168 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:16 AM | #169 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:16 AM | #170 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:19 AM | #171 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:20 AM | #172 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:21 AM | #173 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:22 AM | #174 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:26 AM | #175 |
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Interesting claim, that "common sense" will let you pretend that a passage "means" something other than (and in direct contradiction to) what the words of the text (a text you, personally, cannot read) actually say.
You're twisting your "scriptures" to your opinions, rather than building your opinions upon your "scriptures". (...and you keep avoiding questions...) |
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2nd November 2016, 08:27 AM | #176 |
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No, that doesn't give you the relevant and needful information you would have gleaned from knowing the languages in which the text was actually written and the historical and cultural context from which it arose. "Common sense" in this context is no more informative than wishful and biased guesswork.
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2nd November 2016, 08:28 AM | #177 |
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I don't think it does. He's just repeating the same lame claim without any support in the hope we give up on the topic and don't circle back to his claming there was never a Second Temple.
Then again, he could be trying to provoke responses he can cherry pick to claim atheists are rape apologists. |
2nd November 2016, 08:30 AM | #178 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:32 AM | #179 |
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Chapter and verse. Were is it stated that a man who rapes a virgin who is not betrothed must die?
The punishment is given for men who rape a betrothed woman. If the verse in question isn't about raping an unbetrothed virgin, then where IS the verse for what happens in tat situation? |
2nd November 2016, 08:37 AM | #180 |
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Deu 22:25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die.
Deu 22:28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, So this seems to be the answer—
Quote:
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2nd November 2016, 08:37 AM | #181 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:38 AM | #182 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:47 AM | #183 |
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Do you realize you just quoted a different translation of Deuteronomy 22:28 in order to prove it IS about rape when you have spent the last several posts arguing it is NOT about rape?
You just conceded the argument. Some errors even Paul Bethk can't spin. |
2nd November 2016, 08:51 AM | #184 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:54 AM | #185 |
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2nd November 2016, 08:58 AM | #186 |
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2nd November 2016, 09:05 AM | #187 |
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2nd November 2016, 09:07 AM | #188 |
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You're saying that the meaning of the word "discover" makes it impossible by definition to "discover" one person abusing another person? That is simply absurd. As is well known, moreover, the English word "discover" has changed its meaning quite radically over the centuries. It previously meant "reveal" or "uncover" as we would now say.
So what should we do? I'm going to see what word was used in Hebrew for this, and look at the contexts of its other occurrences, if any, in the Tanakh. I'll use my normal sources. Off we go. In Strong it's 4672 matsa: to attain to, find מָצָא. And it occurs no fewer than 455 times in the Tanakh. This looks like the relevant usage: d. find a condition, find one in a situation; לָהּ בְּתוּלִים ׳וְלֹא מ Deuteronomy 22:14 compare Deuteronomy 22:17; Deuteronomy 24:1; אֶתמֶֿלָךְ ֗֗֗ נִלְחָם׳וַיִּמ 2 Kings 19:8 and he found the king of Assyria warring against Lachish = Isaiah 37:8; אֶתלְֿבָבוֺ נֶאֱמָן ׳וּמ Nehemiah 9:8; כָּתוּב בספר ׳מ Nehemiah 7:5; Nehemiah 8:14; especially late., 1 Chronicles 20:2; 2Chronicles 25:5; Daniel 1:20; Daniel 7:26."Find one in a situation". That looks about right. Does the "situation" have to be consensual? I think not, because - look, it is used to refer to someone finding a king at war against a city! Just so you'll know: the war between Assyria and the city of Lachish was not a consensual affair. 701 BCE, during the revolt of king Hezekiah against Assyria, it was besieged and captured by Sennacherib despite the defenders' determined resistance.If a war can be "discovered", a rape can be "discovered", even if the victim is putting up "determined resistance". Do you not agree? Why did you tell me that the wording of the verse implies consent? You see that five minutes on the internet proves beyond doubt that it does not. You and I are not scholars of the languages of the scriptures, which makes it all the more necessary for us to check things as much as possible before making inferences or suppositions on the basis of translated versions of the texts. |
2nd November 2016, 09:25 AM | #189 |
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2nd November 2016, 09:26 AM | #190 |
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I won't speculate on what it could mean.
Is it? Is it REALLY? Let's do a quick Google News search to find out! Police discover SC sex offender living with minors in Decatur Police Discover Tragic Note at Home Where Family of Five Is Found Dead Well this research has gotten dark fast. Kim Kardashian robbery clue: Police discover suspects DNA on dropped gemstone Police discover man's body in Quinnipiac River Police discover shooting victim while on patrol Yeah, I guess your right. Claiming that the word "discover" implies consent is a really, REALLY dumb argument to make. |
2nd November 2016, 09:33 AM | #191 |
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Zerubbabel’s Temple IS Herod's temple. It was a massive refurbishment and expansion but not another temple.
I'm not really sure how you managed to find the names "Zerubbabel’s Temple" and "Herod's Temple" and NOT know that they were the same temple, the Second Temple, before and after a major renovation. Did you not notice they were both referred to as "the Second Temple" and think, "Hey, I should read some more to figure out why?" |
2nd November 2016, 09:37 AM | #192 |
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2nd November 2016, 09:37 AM | #193 |
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2nd November 2016, 09:48 AM | #194 |
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2nd November 2016, 09:51 AM | #195 |
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2nd November 2016, 09:51 AM | #196 |
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2nd November 2016, 09:57 AM | #197 |
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2nd November 2016, 09:59 AM | #198 |
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2nd November 2016, 10:01 AM | #199 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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2nd November 2016, 10:01 AM | #200 |
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