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2nd November 2016, 10:06 AM | #201 |
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It is...odd...that one who pretends to be "infallible", with "perfect understanding", would need to look up something so important (on Google, even) and still get major details wrong.
Why is it you did not already know there had been a second temple? Why are you confused about the issue of which Temple is "Herod's Temple"? |
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2nd November 2016, 10:10 AM | #202 |
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Which has nothing to do, at all, with teh fact that, until you looked it up, you did not know that the Second Temple was already built...and you still seem to have a bit of confusion about whose Temple is which.
And you have yet to answer the question about whether you believe the sun goes around the earth, or the other way 'round. And I am still waiting for the apology you owe me... ...among others. |
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2nd November 2016, 10:10 AM | #203 |
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No, this is BIBLE related. you know, that book you say God wrote that you claim to understand infallibly. What parts of the Bible HAVE you read anyway?
Yes you did. I asked you what the Biblical punishment was for raping a virgin who is not betrothed and you quoted Deuteronomy 22:28, the very verse you'd previously argued was NOT about rape. |
2nd November 2016, 10:17 AM | #204 |
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Do you even know what point you're trying to make now?
You have been wrong about the Second Temple twice now, something that you should have known inside and out if your claims about Biblical literacy and infallibility were even remotely accurate. This is almost as bad for your reputation as your failed prophesies. What parts of the Bible have you ACTUALLY read? |
2nd November 2016, 10:18 AM | #205 |
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2nd November 2016, 10:20 AM | #206 |
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2nd November 2016, 10:26 AM | #207 |
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I was showing the comparison---it is not an actual case--but that which must be considered if something of this nature takes place.
It still remains that rape is a capital offence, so there can be no collusion with regards to amalgamation. You are picking up bad habits like the rest of the mob, calling me a liar!!! |
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2nd November 2016, 10:28 AM | #208 |
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2nd November 2016, 10:28 AM | #209 |
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2nd November 2016, 10:30 AM | #210 |
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2nd November 2016, 10:37 AM | #211 |
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Can you not read?
There were two Jewish/Israelite Temples built on the same site, Har Habayit. First and Second. That means "both", not "all". What does this have to do with the fact you do not know about Temple history? FYI---the Muslim Waqf controls the Temple Mount, so non-Muslims are not allowed to pray there. Non-Muslims (including Jews) are allowed to visit the site. That still has nothing to do with the fact you know nothing of the history. |
2nd November 2016, 10:38 AM | #212 |
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You might want to try READING the passages to try and understand them, instead of lying about them to try and insert your preferred meanings. What you're saying is irrational, contradictory and not supported by the text.
It's pretty clear we need to step back and help you get a remedial grasp on the Bible. Let's start with something simple. God Is Disappointed In by Mark Russell gives you a brief tongue-in-cheek introduction to each book of the Bible, with a summary of the plot. If not for the occasional profanity I would consider it an excellent way to introduce my eldest son to the contents of the Bible. Since you're starting pretty much from scratch I think it would be a good place for you gain some remedial familiarity with each book. |
2nd November 2016, 10:52 AM | #213 |
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Well, if we want to get technical, from a strictly archaeological standpoint it's possible Solomon's temple might not have been on the exact same spot. The archaeology to prove things one way or another isn't really feasible without digging up the floor of an active, and very important, mosque.
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2nd November 2016, 10:56 AM | #214 |
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The preview looks great, I want to read it!
I have not read this, but the title seems to also be a good place to start for Paul B..... https://www.amazon.com/Torah-Dummies...ah+for+dummies |
2nd November 2016, 10:56 AM | #215 |
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Paul, the very clear words of the law here are:
If a man rapes an unbetrothed woman, and they are discovered, he will pay the victim's father 50 shekels of silver and he must marry her. He can never divorce her. The clear words of the law here state that the rapist can simply buy his victim if he's caught. The implication here is that a poor rapist is going to be killed because he cannot afford the bride price. The other implication is that the woman's virginity is a salable commodity that the father has an interest in - not the woman herself. |
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2nd November 2016, 11:11 AM | #216 |
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I'd gotten the ebook ages back and read through a few pages at a time now and then. It has illustrations by a New Yorker cartoonist. I keep meaning to write the author suggesting a "Sunday School Edition" that's a bit gentler on the sarcasm with cleaned up language.
The For Dummies" books tend to do a surprisingly good job on religion and theology. I looked up the author: http://arthurkurzweil.com/bio
Quote:
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2nd November 2016, 11:11 AM | #217 |
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2nd November 2016, 11:20 AM | #218 |
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That reminds me of a 700 Club "News Report" from years ago that breathlessly claimed that Jewish archaeologists secretly tunneling UNDER the Dome of the Rock from a neighboring location had found the ashes from the last sacrifice made in Herod's temple. Apparently you need to mix the ashes from the last sacrifice in with the new one and the missing ashes were supposedly a MAJOR barrier to renewing sacrifices once the third temple was built.
The "report" ended and we got several minutes of Pat Robertson and whoever his co-host was that day chatting about his this could mean "the building of the third temple was imminent" and other "blessed to be seeing the end times" nonsense. They also praised the "bravery" of the "archaeologists" who had presumably been illegally tunneling under a major holy site. I'm pretty sure the entire story was BS. I HOPE it was BS, because if it wasn't, a bunch of people were digging illegal tunnels under a religious building full of people. |
2nd November 2016, 11:21 AM | #219 |
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2nd November 2016, 11:23 AM | #220 |
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2nd November 2016, 11:36 AM | #221 | ||
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The 700 Club is **** (****)
More ********! Yes, it is total BS. There has been no digging under the Mosque. When I said there was no digging "at the site" I meant on the mount itself. There has been digging in surrounding areas by Israelis, Palestinians, and the Waqf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excava...e_Temple_Mount
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2nd November 2016, 11:48 AM | #222 |
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Lies? From the 700 Club? The "news" organization that initially supported the "Christian" Serb forces and accused the "Liberal Media" of "attacking Christians" when they reported on the Bosnian genocide? THAT 700 Club was less than truthful about archaeological claims?
I'm shocked! Well, now I know what rabbit hole of reading I'm diving into during the train ride home.. |
2nd November 2016, 01:46 PM | #223 |
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No you do not understand, rape is a violent act, and as such must be punished in accordance with the law pertaining to rape.
So no rapist can go free, after he has violated the purity of a virgin. So it could not refer to rape, but to a man who seduces a virgin—but take note this is not an actual case but the procedure in the event of this happening. This will prevent the man from running off. It is in line with what I say, that sex constitutes marriage—but rape is a crime. |
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2nd November 2016, 01:51 PM | #224 |
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It would appear that bronze age shepherds disagree with you.
Welcome to the iron age, you are obviously enlightened. |
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2nd November 2016, 01:52 PM | #225 |
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2nd November 2016, 01:56 PM | #226 |
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Everyone has to do research, even you do not know everything—so if you learn something then do not think you are the origin of knowledge.
How do you know about the earth in relation to the sun, unless you read it—you did not discover it by yourself! The fact that you believe in evolution shows how little you know—you merely quote others. Apology for what? |
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2nd November 2016, 02:04 PM | #227 |
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Yes it is--rape is violence, so it must be dealt with as such--seduction is not rape, but there is a responsibility.
You see Sir, men do persuade woman into an intimate situation then afterwards run off--so a law was promulgated to prevent this. This is a common occurrence. |
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2nd November 2016, 02:07 PM | #228 |
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2nd November 2016, 02:33 PM | #229 |
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But you claim to be "infallible" and have "perfect understanding"; the issue is not so much that you had to "Google" whether Solon's Temple had been destroyed, but that you got it wrong, even after looking it up--and that you have yet to demonstrate that you have resolved your confusion about the relationship of "Zerubabel's Temple" to "Herod's Temple".
Odd sort of "infallibility", that; puny sort of "perfect understanding". Perhaps you should send the person of straw you are trying to raise up to go stand with the others under that windmill. Unless you can demonstrate where I ever made, or implied, such a claim, you are telling yourself untruths. Do recall that it is not I who claims to be "infallible", or have "perfect understanding"... What an...odd...question. I never, not even once, claimed to have "discovered it for myself". However: in addition to reading; in addition to observing video feed from (for instance) the ISS and the Mars probes; I own a telescope. I have observed Mars, and Venus, change phases. I have seen, with my own eyes, the Rings of Saturn change angles. I have watched the Jovian moons in their stately dance. For that matter, I have watched our own Moon wax and wane. All of these indicate that the earth rotates upon its axis and the earth-moon couplet revolves around the sun. Do you believe, instead, that the sun rotates around the earth? What evidence have you to offer? ...this from a "prophet" who cannot even accurately quote his own "scriptures" without needing an interpretation of a translation... And, for what it is worth (and however OT it is), I do not "believe" in "evolution". Instead, I understand that the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection fulfills James' criteria for true ideas: it is Congruent, Luminous, and Fruitful. And it does not need to be supported by superstition. Remember: I am a High School Teacher. I would be glad to help you understand evolution, but not in this thread. You want to talk evolution? Start another, appropriate thread. Oh, my. Are you even reading the thread? I find your feigned confusion insincere, and unconvincing. |
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2nd November 2016, 02:37 PM | #230 |
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2nd November 2016, 02:39 PM | #231 |
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Doubtless you will be able to provide chapter and verse of your "scriptures" that actually says this...
Doubtless you will be able to provide chapter and verse of your "scriptures" that actually says this... Speak for yourself. Do NOT pretend to speak for me. And, at least in the US, and in New Mexico, that law was not written by thrall-slaves to your 'god', nor does it parallel your own prejudices and misogynies.. Huzzah! |
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2nd November 2016, 02:44 PM | #232 |
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Remember the Hebrew word used to describe the rape? Here is how that word is translated in the Bible, in its various occurrences. Tell me, does this imply seduction or a more violent act?
arrested (2), capture (2), captured (8), caught (5), grasp (1), grasps (1), handle (4), handled (1), hold (1), lay hold (1), lays hold (1), occupy (1), overlaid (1), play (1), profane (1), seize (5), seized (13), seizes (1), surely be captured (1), take (3), taken over (1), took (3), took hold (3), wielding (1), wields (1). |
2nd November 2016, 04:04 PM | #233 |
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Signs of the End Times - Part Two
I tried to warn you Paul. I tried to warn you.
Now you've not only conceded you were wrong about the verse by using a different translation to prove a different point but you keep returning to your folly like a dog to his vomit. Part of your problem appears to stem from a kernel of compassion we'd never seen in you before. The struggle you have with the verse is a common one. I recommend you take solace in the apologetic that the verse is not condoning violence, but requiring the rapist to provide and care for his victim, regardless of her own infidelity in the future. From a bronze age perspective where a woman is worthless without her virginity this is actually a fairly compassionate verse. If the rapist were executed for his crime the woman would be left an unmarriageable burden to her family. If you go with that interpretation you can preserve your faith in God without humiliating yourself with embarrassing excuses. And none of us will think ill of you for doing so. Admitting you're not infallible and changing your mind on this verse will actually raise our opinion of you considerably. |
2nd November 2016, 04:09 PM | #234 |
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2nd November 2016, 04:23 PM | #235 |
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2nd November 2016, 05:48 PM | #236 |
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2nd November 2016, 06:03 PM | #237 |
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You really don't read for comprehension - do you?
Nothing in what I have said disputes that rape is an act of violence. The law gives an alternate punishment for rape, or rather a punishment that can only be imposed in a specific set of circumstances - essentially a rich man can rape and then buy his victim as a wife, provided the rape takes place outside the city. The law is part of the laws concerning rape and uses the same language as the others. It does not say what you want it to say, and you are twisting the meaning of the words to the breaking point to make them fit your preferred meaning. The majority of interpretation here is consistent with what I have been saying - you are in a minority position of one and your interpretation cannot be supported by logic or language - while you will claim that everyone else is out of step, you are WRONG in this. |
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3rd November 2016, 04:07 AM | #238 |
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Does the Cubs winning the World Series count as a sign?
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3rd November 2016, 04:18 AM | #239 |
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3rd November 2016, 04:43 AM | #240 |
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I'm not surprised. Remember that the story of Noah is told to children, dramatized and illustrated for Children's Bibles. Christians, and I suspect Jews, are desensitized to the genocide and horror of the story from a very young age. This is so through that I doubt the majority of Christians even realize that the flood story includes God drowning thousands to millions of infants and toddlers. I suspect Paul is struggling with this verse in part as a result of thinking about it not in a vague abstract but in a personalized manner. Maybe he thought about this happening to someone he knew. Maybe he knows a rape victim and is reacting with horror to the fact that the Bible says that victim's attacker should be forced to buy her and marry her. Maybe he'll tell us what sparked his kernel of conscience and the ensuing revolt against the Bible. Paul appears to have put a face to the rape victim, and he can't bring himself to accept that the Bible says she should become her rapist's wife. |
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