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Tags donald trump , Joe Walsh

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Old 17th February 2020, 07:13 AM   #81
Red Baron Farms
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Why do uou repeat this when you've already been corrected? Are you able to learn new information?

Impeachment is not about crimes as defined by US law, but about crimes as defined by the House.
hahaha At least you admit the House just made the **** up.

This is why BTW Trump is damn near guaranteed the re-election. And it is a damn shame too. But the opposition is so clueless they haven't a damn chance. Stupid vs stupider.

3 damns and I am out!
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Old 17th February 2020, 08:06 AM   #82
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The house didn't make **** up. In fact, Trump is bragging he got away with it now.
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
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Old 17th February 2020, 09:21 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
The house didn't make **** up. In fact, Trump is bragging he got away with it now.
Got away with a non-crime. What a mastermind!
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Old 17th February 2020, 09:27 AM   #84
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
Got away with a non-crime. What a mastermind!
Bribery is a crime, but you can tell yourself whatever you want to in order to feel good about it.
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Old 17th February 2020, 09:39 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Bribery is a crime, but you can tell yourself whatever you want to in order to feel good about it.
There was no crime and bribery was not one of the charges either
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Old 17th February 2020, 09:48 AM   #86
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
There was no crime and bribery was not one of the charges either
Your assertion that there was no crime is just a lie.
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Old 17th February 2020, 11:23 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Your assertion that there was no crime is just a lie.
lolz why? We just went through this already.

look above''''

There is no crime

"not about crimes as defined by US law, but about crimes as defined by the House"

"the house just made that **** up"

...

and so on and so on, round in circles.

...

The whole thing is ridiculous and because it is so ridiculous, you idiots just damn near guaranteed Trump a second term just on the backlash.
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Old 17th February 2020, 11:26 AM   #88
thaiboxerken
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Why do you keep asserting such lies?
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Old 17th February 2020, 11:36 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Why do you keep asserting such lies?
It's not a lie. there is no charge of bribery in the impeachment. The house just made up a bunch of **** because they didn't like the Trump admin investigating corruption.


See you keep missing the real problem here.

Democratic leaders keep stepping on rakes, whacking themselves in the face, time and time again. And in almost every case, it stems from an inability to grasp or foresee how their actions will be perceived by those who are different, who do not already agree with the Democrats’ worldview.

And that's all this round and round about going in circles is all about. You insisting that because I don't share your worldview, I must be lying.

Well guess what, calling someone a lyer because they don't happen to share your world view is as they say around here...

"Them's fightin' words"

and all it does is insure Trump gets re-elected at a critical moment in time when we absolutely need an environmentally friendly President and congress.... critically important in fact...

So I say shame on you and shame on all you doing the same thing.

stupid vs stupider
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Old 17th February 2020, 11:39 AM   #90
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1. Crimes were committed - textbook crimes
2. Crimes were no requirement in any Impeachment of the past.

RBF 0
Facts 2
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Old 17th February 2020, 12:03 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
hahaha At least you admit the House just made the **** up.
Actually no, the house did not just 'make it up'.

The concept of "abuse of power" is well established in the American political system. (Heck, it even goes back further, to English common law.) It has been included in the articles of impeachment for several U.S. officials, going way back to the 1800s (long before Stubby McBonespurs entered politics).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse_of_power
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_..._and_acquittal
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Old 17th February 2020, 12:17 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
1. Crimes were committed - textbook crimes
2. Crimes were no requirement in any Impeachment of the past.
LOLZ Textbook "crimes" were committed, unfortunately nop one is capable of actually communicating they found a lawbook crime.. just call everyone who disagrees a lier.

Well guess what. it's what damn near guarantees Trump victory no matter what imbecile the Democrats nominate to run against him.
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Old 17th February 2020, 12:19 PM   #93
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Extortion.
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Old 17th February 2020, 12:36 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
It's not a lie. there is no charge of bribery in the impeachment. The house just made up a bunch of **** because they didn't like the Trump admin investigating corruption.


See you keep missing the real problem here.

Democratic leaders keep stepping on rakes, whacking themselves in the face, time and time again. And in almost every case, it stems from an inability to grasp or foresee how their actions will be perceived by those who are different, who do not already agree with the Democrats’ worldview.

And that's all this round and round about going in circles is all about. You insisting that because I don't share your worldview, I must be lying.

Well guess what, calling someone a lyer because they don't happen to share your world view is as they say around here...

"Them's fightin' words"

and all it does is insure Trump gets re-elected at a critical moment in time when we absolutely need an environmentally friendly President and congress.... critically important in fact...

So I say shame on you and shame on all you doing the same thing.

stupid vs stupider
Yeah shame on Democrats for trying to hold Trump accountable while Republicans grovel at his feet.

All you're doing is spitting the same talking points about Democrats being mad about the "2016 election results". You seem far more angry about the backlash against Trump than Trump being Trump.
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Old 17th February 2020, 12:40 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Now here is a true Never Trumper.

Big time Tea Party affiliate Joe Walsh drops out of the Republican race and declares that he is ready to vote Trump out no matter what. He is prepared to vote for any of the Democratic candidates.

Not a fan of Walsh or Mitt Romney but they have a spine.
Hopefully and in all probability, he will fail to oust Trump and Trump will be reelected. Trump is no dictator nor is he a Socialist which is more than you can say for many of the Democrat Presidential wannabees.
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Old 17th February 2020, 03:50 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
LOLZ Textbook "crimes" were committed, unfortunately nop one is capable of actually communicating they found a lawbook crime.. just call everyone who disagrees a lier.

Well guess what. it's what damn near guarantees Trump victory no matter what imbecile the Democrats nominate to run against him.
This argument is as utterly devoid of intellectual merit as saying the US isn't a democracy because the word 'democracy' isn't in the Constitution.

Trump violated the Impoundment Act, the Hatch Act, the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, obstruction of Congress, Contempt of Congress, committed bribery (conditioning an official act on a personal benefit in 18 US code 201), and Honest Services Fraud. On top of a bunch of campaign finance laws, but those weren't in the impeachment. I mean, there is a giant list of criminal acts but yeah, you saying there aren't makes it true? Naw, you're being ridiculous.
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Old 17th February 2020, 04:33 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Extortion.
I wish Dems had used this word more. I don't know how much they actually did use it; I wasn't immersed in the process, but bribery didn't sound like the right word because the aid wasn't his to extend. He could hold it up though, potentially at great peril to Ukraine.

But beyond that, he was helping an identified adversary, continuing a pattern of enabling Russian aggression whenever possible. Which the GOP Senate (and the U.S. military) know damn well. If Trump wins and the Senate stays Republican, I suspect that senators will find a way to take him out.

Not really the topic of the thread though. I agree he's not dictator material and the "socialist" label is meaningless. The word doesn't poll well but Bernie does; go figure.
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Old 17th February 2020, 04:45 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
The whole thing is ridiculous and because it is so ridiculous, you idiots just damn near guaranteed Trump a second term just on the backlash.
I don't think there's going to be much of a backlash. Trump will keep trying to foment one but I don't think it's going to be that compelling to voters. Hard to know why people do things at the polls though.

It seems a bit harsh to say that us ISF "idiots" are responsible for an assured Trump victory in November. I mean, that's a few dozen posters and a few hundred lurkers at best. I don't think people here have that much influence over the House of Representatives. IMO Trump crossed a line and even his administration knows it or they wouldn't have tried to bury the whole thing.
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Old 17th February 2020, 06:31 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I don't think there's going to be much of a backlash. Trump will keep trying to foment one but I don't think it's going to be that compelling to voters. Hard to know why people do things at the polls though.

It seems a bit harsh to say that us ISF "idiots" are responsible for an assured Trump victory in November. I mean, that's a few dozen posters and a few hundred lurkers at best. I don't think people here have that much influence over the House of Representatives. IMO Trump crossed a line and even his administration knows it or they wouldn't have tried to bury the whole thing.
The world knows the real line crossed was when Biden managed to get his crack head son a position in UA to funnel back some of those stolen billions back into family coffers.

That's the real reason for impeaching Trump even after he released the money, which by law had strings attached to prevent corruption.

Trump was doing his job and got too close to that snake pit.
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Old 17th February 2020, 07:34 PM   #100
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A word of advice to several posters: you can't teach someone who is happy in his ignorance.
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Old 17th February 2020, 07:36 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
The world knows the real line crossed was when Biden managed to get his crack head son a position in UA to funnel back some of those stolen billions back into family coffers.

That's the real reason for impeaching Trump even after he released the money, which by law had strings attached to prevent corruption.

Trump was doing his job and got too close to that snake pit.
We get it. Potential corruption in a Democrat is worse that actual abuse of power and corruption in a Republican President.
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Old 17th February 2020, 07:56 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post

That's the real reason for impeaching Trump even after he released the money, which by law had strings attached to prevent corruption.

Trump was doing his job and got too close to that snake pit.
Funny, the perfect call never mentioned corruption at all.

Show me the documents and testimony to back up your version of what happened. If you're just spouting your opinion, fine.

Why do you believe what you believe?
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Old 17th February 2020, 08:17 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Masque View Post
Perhaps you can clear something up for me. You mention that there was no crime in the indictments against Trump, by this I assume you mean a punishable breach of a criminal statute. However, offenses by officials, while including ordinary crimes, are not limited to them. As I understand it (and if I'm mistaken here, please let me know), a “high crime or misdemeanor”, as the term was used at the time of the Founders, need not be a breach of criminal statute. The sole magistrate, as the Founders thought of the President, can be impeached for acts that subvert the Constitution and/or involve abuse of the office. High misdemeanors could even extend to gross maladministration.

I am given to understand that, the phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors," was a common phrase when the U.S. Constitution was written. In English law as we inherited it from the British, who were using it since the 14th Century, the phrase was used to cover many varieties of bad act. The English had prosecuted officeholders for, among other things, misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament and arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament. As I understand the meaning of the phrase, “high crimes and misdemeanors” are actions by those who have special duties, powers or privileges, beyond those held by the common person, as a result of holding an office. A high crime is one that can be done only by someone in such a position of authority and may be solely political in character.

Back in the ‘70’s when Nixon was on the verge of impeachment, Congress (following the Supreme Court) held that, like other phrases in the Constitution such as “keep and bear arms” and “levying war”, “high crimes and misdemeanors” must be construed as the Founders understood it, not by modern usage. The original intent of the Founders can be found by reading the record of their debates. (They are on-line someplace.) The debates in Congress used such language as "high misdemeanor," "maladministration," or "other crime." Edmund Randolph said impeachment should be reserved for those who "misbehave." Charles Cotesworth Pinckney said it should be reserved "for those who behave amiss, or betray their public trust." In The Federalist, Alexander Hamilton spoke of "those offences which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated political, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself."

If we can accept all of that, could you explain to me how using the power of the U.S. presidency to attempt to solicit a foreign power to prosecute a U.S. citizen for the purpose of interfering in a U.S. election to secure one's own re-election, then admitting to it on television, and then impeding a Congressional investigation and failing to respond to Congressional subpoenas does not rise to the level of an impeachable offense?

TIA.
Well done.
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Old 17th February 2020, 08:26 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
The world knows the real line crossed was when Biden managed to get his crack head son a position in UA to funnel back some of those stolen billions back into family coffers.

That's the real reason for impeaching Trump even after he released the money, which by law had strings attached to prevent corruption.

Trump was doing his job and got too close to that snake pit.
Not only is that authentic right wing gibberish, it expresses an alternate reality too often seen in this day and age.
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Old 17th February 2020, 08:56 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
The world knows the real line crossed was when Biden managed to get his crack head son a position in UA to funnel back some of those stolen billions back into family coffers.

That's the real reason for impeaching Trump even after he released the money, which by law had strings attached to prevent corruption.

Trump was doing his job and got too close to that snake pit.
What the world actually knows is that we have an expression for this kind of story... complete and utter bollocks!

No-one outside the right wing echo-chambers of US politics believes any of the crap you posted for a second. This is because we can spot it for what it is - conspiracy theory bollocks conceived by the FSB (The Russian secret service) and spouted by their internet trolls on social media - bollocks that stupid, gullible Trump supporters enthusiastically gobble up because they are desperate to believe that Dear Leader can do no wrong.
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Old 17th February 2020, 09:56 PM   #106
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I actually like and understand what Masgue wrote, but still vehemently disagree that this is what happened. It is ludicrous to believe that it is a high crime and misdemeanor to investigate another high crime and misdemeanor just because it was committed by a political opponent.

It is absolutely an undeniable fact that even the Obama administration saw that the crack head over in UA could be seen as a conflict of interest. Long before Trump was even elected that was determined.

But it is the highest hypocrisy that Trump asking for an investigation into this conflict of interest before releasing the funds is an abuse of power in and of itself. That is the bullpucky of the whole fiasco.

I am not saying Trump handled it well. That's clear he didn't. He should have filed a report under the Impoundment Control Act after he held up the funds. Instead of the report that should have followed, he just simply released the funds later.

That's really poor form. Like most of what Trump does, he handled it like a business he owns, rather than a governmental office. I don't like that style any more than you guys, but it is not a dictatorship. And Trump was correct to put a hold on those funds until he was confident they would be used as intended.
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Old 17th February 2020, 10:05 PM   #107
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If the Ukraine/Biden connection was so problematic, why wait until the next election to investigate it?
Why wait until you lose the House?
Why use your private lawyer instead of the DOJ?

Sorry RBF, but the House Impeachment Inquiry was a legitimate investigation, the phone call extortion scheme was not.
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Old 17th February 2020, 10:28 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
On the other hand, the Senate choosing to cooperate doesn't make the President a dictator. You know what would make the President a dictator? If he were able to carry out his agenda without the Senate's cooperation.
What if he uses the Justice department to carry out his agenda? With William Barr as his right hand man what's going to stop them from "digging up dirt" against all political rivals to sway more votes to the GOP?
He already does it with his tweets.
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Old 17th February 2020, 10:35 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If the Ukraine/Biden connection was so problematic, why wait until the next election to investigate it?
Why wait until you lose the House?
Why use your private lawyer instead of the DOJ?

Sorry RBF, but the House Impeachment Inquiry was a legitimate investigation, the phone call extortion scheme was not.
You forgot, why was Trump only interested in an announcement that an investigation would occur, and not at all interested in the investigation actually occurring?
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Old 17th February 2020, 10:36 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
The world knows the real line crossed was when Biden managed to get his crack head son a position in UA to funnel back some of those stolen billions back into family coffers.

That's the real reason for impeaching Trump even after he released the money, which by law had strings attached to prevent corruption.

Trump was doing his job and got too close to that snake pit.
You might want to explain what Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort was indicted for if you're just going to assume Trump was innocently doing his job.
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Old 17th February 2020, 10:40 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
I actually like and understand what Masgue wrote, but still vehemently disagree that this is what happened.
Then sadly, if you are an American, you do not understand your own Constitution

Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
It is ludicrous to believe that it is a high crime and misdemeanor to investigate another high crime and misdemeanor just because it was committed by a political opponent.
He wasn't investigating a "high crime or misdemeanour" for the simple reason that Hunter Biden cannot commit either of these since he is not in public office. Joe Biden, in this case, cannot legally control what Hunter Biden does, so he has committed no crime of any kind either.

But it is remarkable that you are all up in arms about Hunter and Joe Biden being in a conflict of interest (which they were when Joe was VP) but you are perfectly OK with both Trump's, sons, his daughter and his son-in-law all having roles in the White House. You also appear to be OK with Trump having a former Coal Industry executive in charge of the EPA - talk about putting a fox in charge of the hen house!!

Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
It is absolutely an undeniable fact that even the Obama administration saw that the crack head over in UA could be seen as a conflict of interest. Long before Trump was even elected that was determined.
Having a conflict of interest is not a good thing, but it is not a crime either

Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
But it is the highest hypocrisy that Trump asking for an investigation into this conflict of interest before releasing the funds is an abuse of power in and of itself. That is the bullpucky of the whole fiasco.
Again, you fail to understand your own Constitution. THE HOUSE HAS THE SOLE POWER OF THE PURSE. It alone decides how funds are spent. If the President withholds funds to an allied power; funds that were legally and correctly authorised by the House then HE IS BREAKING THE LAW - no ifs, no buts, no maybes, no weasel words, no excuses.

Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
I am not saying Trump handled it well. That's clear he didn't. He should have filed a report under the Impoundment Control Act after he held up the funds.
No, he should have filed an ICA report before doing anything else. Such report must include his reasons for doing so; reasons that must be legal

Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
Instead of the report that should have followed, he just simply released the funds later.
No, he only released them when he got caught. I have zero doubt whatsoever that he would have continued to hold those funds if he had not been caught red handed (no pun intended)

Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
That's really poor form. Like most of what Trump does, he handled it like a business he owns, rather than a governmental office. I don't like that style any more than you guys, but it is not a dictatorship. And Trump was correct to put a hold on those funds until he was confident they would be used as intended.
No, that is not a decision he gets to make. The House makes that decision, and the Law is that the funds must be released in a timely manner, without delay.

There is ONE and only ONE reason why Trump withheld those funds and that was as part of an attempt to extort Zelenskiy into announcing an investigation into a political opponent. That is a GROSS abuse of power, and is exactly one of the things that your Founders were afraid of - a President who would abuse the power of his office to investigate political rivals. In any other country in the world (other than a Dictatorship or a Banana Republic) his own party would have turfed him out.
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Old 18th February 2020, 10:15 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Not only is that authentic right wing gibberish, it expresses an alternate reality too often seen in this day and age.
And on this forum!
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Old 19th February 2020, 11:55 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Not only is that authentic right wing gibberish, it expresses an alternate reality too often seen in this day and age.
He said the President is near.
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