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Tags gravity , homeopathy , photons , quantum mechanics

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Old 20th October 2004, 10:51 AM   #361
Zombified
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Quote:
Originally posted by Carn
But if they are the same, except for e.g. position, and you cannot keep track of their positions, then you are lost and cannot determine any difference between the two and you would not notice them switching position for example.
That's right - quantum mechanical particles are fundamentally indistinguishable. They have state variables, for example an electron in an atom can be in an energy level or a certain angular momentum state. But you cannot say particle A is in one state and particle B is in another state vs. the reverse. There's no way to label the particles.

This turns out to be fairly important to thermodynamics, which is why I asserted this earlier as an experimental fact. All sorts of phenomena result from this.

Edit to add: in case it gets lost by the page break: I still want to Kumar to explain if he can demonstrate distinguishing remedies from plain water with Kirlian photography, as mentioned in my previous post.
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Old 20th October 2004, 09:14 PM   #362
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Zombified,

I have not done, but It is claimed that KP can differanciate.

Carn,Zombified,

We have to find out some theory which can distinguish two quantum mechanical particles or photons, electrons, protons & neutrons AND two molecules of same substance in their properties Quantum state variation are seems to be a temporary aspect but if quantum mechanical particles can have some properties which can make those to present/cause variable quantum states then only those can be distinguishable.

Can early/easy/more excitation/come back or late/difficult/less excitation/come back be a possibility? Possibily, we can understandthis concept somewhat understanding distinguishabe features in identical twins.
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Old 20th October 2004, 09:18 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
We have to find out some theory which can distinguish two quantum mechanical particles or photons, electrons, protons & neutrons AND two molecules of same substance in their properties Quantum state variation are seems to be a temporary aspect but if quantum mechanical particles can have some properties which can make those to present/cause variable quantum states then only those can be distinguishable.

Can early/easy/more excitation/come back or late/difficult/less excitation/come back be a possibility?
Anyone care to try translating this into jibberish? At least we have a hope of understanding jibberish.
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Old 20th October 2004, 09:40 PM   #364
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Seems to me Kumar's Current Theory ™ is running out of steam, since he now has to rewrite quantum physics. Perhaps it's about time he starts a new thread with a new theory? Anyone care to guess what that will be?
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Old 20th October 2004, 10:18 PM   #365
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It will be the same old theory once again, no changes. This is his usual practice.
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Old 20th October 2004, 10:39 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
I have not done, but It is claimed that KP can differanciate.
Does this mean you are not claiming to be able to differentiate remedies from controls? This is just a claim you heard? Where did you heard this claim?

I just want to make sure I understand what you are claiming to be able to do.
Quote:
We have to find out some theory which can distinguish two quantum mechanical particles or photons, electrons, protons & neutrons AND two molecules of same substance in their properties Quantum state variation are seems to be a temporary aspect but if quantum mechanical particles can have some properties which can make those to present/cause variable quantum states then only those can be distinguishable.

Can early/easy/more excitation/come back or late/difficult/less excitation/come back be a possibility? Possibily, we can understandthis concept somewhat understanding distinguishabe features in identical twins.
Zep, I'm not sure what Kumar is on about here. Near as I can tell, he's asking about indistinguishability of particles, which he seems to regard as inconvenient to his theory. If so, we've been over this before, because I brought it up when I objected to the idea of "degrading" particles.

If I had to guess, Kumar wants particles to be distinguishable, in other words, to have additional state information about them, because he thinks such additional state could encode homeopathicness. Quantum mechanics is fairly clear about what the state is. Indistinguishability is an important feature to theories about many phenomona, not the least of which is the very solidity of matter. If there was information that could be used to distinguish between particles, a lot of stuff would break. So unless Kumar has an alternative theory (and by that I mean lots of serious math) the experimental evidence is very much against him here.

Even if we ignored these problems, there are still many, many other hurdles to using any conjectural extra state for homeopathic remedies.

Edit later to add: Nah, I'm probably reading to much into it. Especially considering Kumar's followup...
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Old 20th October 2004, 10:55 PM   #367
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Kumar wants information about huge molecules stored in units smaller than an atom, or, at best, stored in a water molecule, one of the smallest molecules that exists. I have explained it to him time and again, but to him it is "illogical" that you cannot have such information stored in such small units. It is like trying to put a huge box inside a small box.
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Old 20th October 2004, 10:57 PM   #368
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Dude, WTF? That makes even less sense in English than Kumaranian.
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Old 20th October 2004, 10:58 PM   #369
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http://www.grandunification.com/hype...ctroscopy.html

What does it mean? What happens when an elecron goes to lower energy level on emitting photons?
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Old 20th October 2004, 11:02 PM   #370
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
What does it mean? What happens when an elecron goes to lower energy level on emitting photons?
That's pretty much it, dude. An electron goes to a lower energy level, and in order to conserve energy, a photon of energy equal to the difference between the two levels is emitted. That's all.
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Old 20th October 2004, 11:16 PM   #371
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Originally posted by Zombified
That's pretty much it, dude. An electron goes to a lower energy level, and in order to conserve energy, a photon of energy equal to the difference between the two levels is emitted. That's all.
That is simple but what happens when electron goes to lower level on emitting photons? Does it remain there or come back to origional or some other level by instantly absorbing some other photon/s? In our case--say on potentisation both active substance & carries molecules emit photons & goes down to lower levels. To compensate it, photons are just exchanged/absorbed.
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Old 20th October 2004, 11:43 PM   #372
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
That is simple but what happens when electron goes to lower level on emitting photons? Does it remain there or come back to origional or some other level by instantly absorbing some other photon/s? In our case--say on potentisation both active substance & carries molecules emit photons & goes down to lower levels. To compensate it, photons are just exchanged/absorbed.
All else being equal a system (like an atom) will tend to revert to the lowest available energy, emitting the excess as photons. The electron can get kicked back up to a higher energy state by absorbing a photon, of course.

The characteristics of the photons are determined by the difference in energy and angular momentum between the two electron states, and those only take on certain discrete values.

It is necessary to stress, however, that the process is both random and limited in time. Only minimum energy states are stable: any time there is an electron in a higher energy state there is a finite probability per unit of time for the electron to fall into a lower state by emitting a photon. So if you could prepare a bunch of atoms with excited energy levels, they would emit light very quickly (examples of this include neons signs, flourescent lights, LEDs, etc). Furthermore, where the photon goes is completely random. Where photons from two nearby atoms go will be uncorrelated. So there's no way you could stably encode information that way. C'est l'entropy.

Now, Kumar, I've gone and given you a break by answering your question, so I'm asking you all nice if you'll answer mine: do you or do you not claim, yourself, to be able to distinguish between remedies and controls?
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Old 21st October 2004, 12:02 AM   #373
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar

Carn,Zombified,

We have to find out some theory which can distinguish two quantum mechanical particles or photons, electrons, protons & neutrons AND two molecules of same substance in their properties Quantum state variation are seems to be a temporary aspect but if quantum mechanical particles can have some properties which can make those to present/cause variable quantum states then only those can be distinguishable.

Can early/easy/more excitation/come back or late/difficult/less excitation/come back be a possibility? Possibily, we can understandthis concept somewhat understanding distinguishabe features in identical twins.
Kumar, i think you would get your answers faster, if you wouldn't use "&" and "/" in sentences and if you would try to use "," and especially "." regulary according to known grammatic laws.

Sometimes it will need more words, that way, but more often it would allow others to understand what you are talking about.

Thanks.

Carn
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Old 21st October 2004, 01:57 AM   #374
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Zombified,

Sorry, still it is not clear. Let me put question in simplest way directly:-

For homeopathic preparation we use two substances. One active remedy substance & other carrier i.e. water, alcohol or lactose in 1:99 or 1:9 proportion & succussions & triturations for each potency. Let us take here NaCl & water as active substance & carrier respectively.

In variation to my previously mentioned concept I now say that:

On potentisation photons are emited by both Nacl & water say in 1:99 proportion. Nacl's emitted photons will have higher energy in comparisn to water's emmited photons & so these will tend to move towards water's molecules whose molecules/electron's have moved to low energy level due to emit of photons.

In above sense, I feel that Nacl photons now will be absorbed by water molecules(due to low quantum energy level) & will be carried over as remedy's effect or information. In this sense structural formula H2O will still remain same but water molecules will be slightly more exicted than before.

What do you say now?


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Old 21st October 2004, 02:31 AM   #375
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Zombified,

Sorry, still it is not clear. Let me put question in simplest way directly:-

For homeopathic preparation we use two substances. One active remedy substance & other carrier i.e. water, alcohol or lactose in 1:99 or 1:9 proportion & succussions & triturations for each potency. Let us take here NaCl & water as active substance & carrier respectively.

That is GOOD, Kumar! Seriously, all else alike, you would be taken (a little) more seriously, and there would be less misunderstandings if you would take the trouble to always write good English like that. You know, it is a simple question of noise-free communication, but also about showing respect for others by doing your best. You are not the only one here communicating in a foreign language.

In variation to my previously mentioned concept I now say that:

On potentisation photons are emited by both Nacl & water say in 1:99 proportion.

Photons are emitted all the time, because the mixture is at room temperature. The potentization process may raise the temperature slightly, so a little more photons are emitted, but it will be only just measurable.

Nacl's emitted photons will have higher energy in comparisn to water's emmited photons

No, what makes you think that? The energy of the photons in this realm will be dependent on the temperature, not on the substance. The glass vial will also emit photons.

& so these will tend to move towards water's molecules whose molecules/electron's have moved to low energy level due to emit of photons.

No, because they will be emitted in random directions. But since there are 99 water molecules for each NaCl molecule, chance dictates that they will pass water molecules.

In above sense, I feel that Nacl photons now will be absorbed by water molecules(due to low quantum energy level) & will be carried over as remedy's effect or information. In this sense structural formula H2O will still remain same but water molecules will be slightly more exicted than before.

Several things wrong with this.

- As I have already told you multiple times, the heat radiation photons have wavelengths of around 10 micrometers, and they do NOT interact with individual molecules. We were actually through this in great detail in Roger Coghill's thread.

- There is no information contained in those photons. They are exactly the same, no matter what kind of molecule emitted them.

- Actually, they are not emitted by individual molecules, but by the substance as such. They do not come from electrons changing level, and thet cannot cause electrons to change level.

- Water can have different energy levels, but that does not encode for substances. There are thousands of (raw) substances used in homeopathy, some of them very complex. You cannot store such complex information in a few simple energy states.

- The energy states are not durable, and HERE entropy comes in: You might exite some pattern of water molecules (although not with heat wave photons), but water has no internal structure, so the pattern will dissolve within a fraction of a second.


What do you say now?

I say that you show that you are able to apply logic, but you need to work on the inner logic of your argumentation chains, and you must stop cherry-picking. You cannot just ignore information that does not suit you.


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Old 21st October 2004, 03:28 AM   #376
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Mr.Hans,

Thanks for comments & explaination.

In this respect, I just want to ask that when photons will be emitted by mixing+potentization--electrons will be moved to lower energy levels. Will they remain on low energy level for long or will absorb some new photons to return back to origional energy level? Which will these new photons be from water, from Nacl or otherwise?

Off the topic for a change:-

Are skeptics looser or gainer by following skepticism? One recent thought came to my ??????type mind i.e.

Whether skeptics are big loosers as they may not be getting that much benefit (as you indicated) by so called "Placebo Effect" by following "skepticism"?

Is it logically/technically correct? Do skeptics then are more effected & get well bit differantly?


Pls don't take it otherwise because it is true thought to be checked.
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Old 21st October 2004, 04:11 AM   #377
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar

Whether skeptics are big loosers as they may not be getting that much benefit (as you indicated) by so called "Placebo Effect" by following "skepticism"?

Is it logically/technically correct? Do skeptics then are more effected & get well bit differantly?
You are right that placebo effect of homoeopathic remedies does not have any effect with skeptics, but there are other factors, such as counselling. If we speak to a person who seems to understand us and who seems to know a lot about our condition, the placebo effect of this works just as well with skeptics as with any others.

It is true that we will meet a homoeopathic healer with a lot of distrust, but there are others. If we go to, say, our doctor, s/he might give us some advice that has no other value but the placebo effect, and we might get better from that. Homoeopathic believers might lose on this kind of placebo effect, because they do not trust their doctor.

There is also the possibility that skeptics are less ill than others because we tend to demand credible evidence that we are really ill (just kidding of course )
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Old 21st October 2004, 04:20 AM   #378
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steenkh,

But factors like, skeptics being habitual non/difficult believers or doubting type can deprive them substancially with this "placebo effect" benefits. I didn't mean just homeopathy here.(anyhow, just relaxing).
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Old 21st October 2004, 04:57 AM   #379
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The placebo effect entails you believing that you are receiving treatment that could be effective. A skeptic could get sugar pills while believing that he was receiving a well known, tested, proven, backed by scientific reports of double-blind controlled studies (you know all the evidence that homepaths cannot provide), extremely effective treatment, and he would receive the effects of placebo. The problem is, Kumar, that treatments are tested and approved when they are more effective than simple placebo, so in this case he would have a lesser chance of recovering than if he recieved the real treatment. With homeopathy, there is still no credible evidence that you get a better chance with a homepathic remedy that with a sugar pill.
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Old 21st October 2004, 05:21 AM   #380
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Donks,

I think it depend on which person you select to test i.e. from homeopathic or from non-homeopathic community. Anyhow, effects will be more noticable when you use strong chemicals for testing---those are effects or side/adverse effects can be thought?
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Old 21st October 2004, 05:30 AM   #381
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
I think it depend on which person you select to test i.e. from homeopathic or from non-homeopathic community.
Actually, no! You can make a test solely with believers. As long as it is a double-blinded test, they will be just as happy receiving h-path remedy as placebo.

Quote:

Anyhow, effects will be more noticable when you use strong chemicals for testing---those are effects or side/adverse effects can be thought?
Obviously you will get a more pronounced effect - and possible side effects - when you use strong chemicals, as opposed to use plain water. We can agree on that.
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Old 21st October 2004, 05:30 AM   #382
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Donks,

I think it depend on which person you select to test i.e. from homeopathic or from non-homeopathic community. Anyhow, effects will be more noticable when you use strong chemicals for testing---those are effects or side/adverse effects can be thought?
"More noticeable"? People would stop being skeptical of homeopathy if the effects were noticeable at all. You know what, here's your chance. Can you or can you not distinguish a homeopathic remedy and a control? Come on, you've been ignoring Zombified for a while now. Answer the question.
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Old 21st October 2004, 07:52 AM   #383
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What do you say, a skeptic/a modern medicine user will get better placebo effect than a homeopathis user? Naturally, in consideration of modern belives people trust more or most on modern system--so belief will be more than other systems.

Zombified,

Quote:
Vital force is an influence that underlies all living organism. It pulsates and directs all aspects of our being. It provides thoughts, creativity and spiritual inspiration. This vital force or human bio-electric fields were photographed using Kirlian photography or high voltage photography. Through these series of photographs scientist were able to see the "life/vital force ‘ radiating from living organisms. Kirlian photography is performed by exposing film to the object in the midst of high intensity electromagnetic field (6). Kirlian photographs note that persons in poor mental or physical health, the photographs reflect the change in the bio-electric field (e.g., in diameter, in color, in regularity) (7). The therapeutic agent can act directly upon the bio-electric field of the patients a totality and thereby directly strengthen the defense mechanism .
http://www3.sympatico.ca/devan.nambiar/homeo.htm
More check here.
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Old 21st October 2004, 08:11 AM   #384
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Originally posted by Kumar: "Vital force is an influence that underlies all living organism. It pulsates and directs all aspects of our being. It provides thoughts, creativity and spiritual inspiration. This vital force or human bio-electric fields were photographed using Kirlian photography or high voltage photography."
http://www3.sympatico.ca/devan.nambiar/homeo.htm
More check here.
Kumar, you were able to find those sites by googling. Now why don't you go google some sites which explain how Kirlian photography actually works, and why it is considered to be nonsense? I know you'll be able to find those too.
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Old 21st October 2004, 08:14 AM   #385
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Kumar: Can you or can you not distinguish a homeopathic remedy from a control?
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Old 21st October 2004, 08:26 AM   #386
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar

I have not done, but It is claimed that KP can differanciate.
Zombified, or any one else who knows physics better than a vet. Might he be referring to K-pions. Aren't they at the heart of CP violation distinguishing matter from anti-matter? Hence, in Kumar's garbled way, meaning the K-pion "can differanciate". But he has not understood that this non-symmetry between matter and anti-matter is not a general process that makes quantum particles distinguishable.

Just an idle speculation (but, I'll betcha I'm right)
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Old 21st October 2004, 08:48 AM   #387
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Kumar,

Why do you think there exists such a thing as "life force"? Just because Kirlian photographs show soemthing you do not understand? We have bad news for you: Kirlian photographs are not photographing life force but rather mundane things like, moisture pressure, and so on. Look at this site in order to see a good description. But sure, the pictures are pretty.

So, what other evidence do you have that "life force" exists? It has always amazed me that people can invent, and believe in concepts like this, that they cannot see, and have no evidence for at all; they just think the idea of a "life force" would be pretty.

As you will see from the link: paper clips also have "life force"!

(Edited to add
Here is another link with beautiful pictures of needles, coins, and washers! Some "life force"!
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Old 21st October 2004, 09:10 AM   #388
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steenkh

How can you say then sky, horizon are there? Life/vital force is one name given to one concept as in science we say vitality. If I name energy/ prime energy in name of some Goddess--you can't say it is not there. It is just a language change/differance. If on taking homeopathic remedy or exposing something/someone to these can show differance then it is valid.

You tell e what is the problem in KP if it can show the differance? Research are going on, so many people are trying but this is very minute concept on which even science may also be 'probable', so some variations can be possible. We have so many aspects in CMS which are treated on observation/experiance basis byt their science is not yet known/found. So we should 'wait & watch' or just try.
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Old 21st October 2004, 09:11 AM   #389
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Quote:
Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
Zombified, or any one else who knows physics better than a vet. Might he be referring to K-pions. Aren't they at the heart of CP violation distinguishing matter from anti-matter? Hence, in Kumar's garbled way, meaning the K-pion "can differanciate". But he has not understood that this non-symmetry between matter and anti-matter is not a general process that makes quantum particles distinguishable.

Just an idle speculation (but, I'll betcha I'm right)
That would be a new one on me. You're right that CP symmetry is violated in kaon decay, but I thought Kumar was talking about Kirlian Photography.

I've been hectoring him about this for a couple of pages ever since he asserted the claim that you could distinguish between remedies and unpotentized controls with Kirlian photography and I challenged him to take the $1M thereby.
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Old 21st October 2004, 11:01 AM   #390
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
On potentisation photons are emited by both Nacl & water say in 1:99 proportion. Nacl's emitted photons will have higher energy in comparisn to water's emmited photons & so these will tend to move towards water's molecules whose molecules/electron's have moved to low energy level due to emit of photons.
Neither the water molecules nor the salt molecules tend to be in an excited state, so neither is going to be emitting photons at all.
Quote:
In above sense, I feel that Nacl photons now will be absorbed by water molecules(due to low quantum energy level) & will be carried over as remedy's effect or information. In this sense structural formula H2O will still remain same but water molecules will be slightly more exicted than before.
Ignoring the problem I mentioned above, there's no information carried by the photon about where it came from. It is just a certain amount of energy. Another atom that absorbs the photon will only absorb exactly enough to raise an electron to an excited state plus or minus a small amount for change in the total momentum of the atom (recoil). An atom excited by a photon from one source is indistinguishable from an atom excited by a different source altogether.

Finally, an atom in an excited state is not stable - it will re-emit energy in the form of another photon in a short period of time. So if excited states were how you stored homeopathic information, then it wouldn't last more than microseconds.

Edit to add: I see you've posted some information about Kirlian photography. Now, Kirlian photography by itself is paranormal aside from any application to testing remedies. Are you claiming Kirlian photography works? Are you willing to put it to the test?
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Old 21st October 2004, 12:22 PM   #391
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
[b]Mr.Hans,

Thanks for comments & explaination.

In this respect, I just want to ask that when photons will be emitted by mixing+potentization--electrons will be moved to lower energy levels. Will they remain on low energy level for long or will absorb some new photons to return back to origional energy level? Which will these new photons be from water, from Nacl or otherwise?
No more answers from me, Kumar. I'm finished with giving you cherries to pick. I gave you (yet) another chance, and you blew it. Have a nice life.

Hans
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Old 21st October 2004, 12:51 PM   #392
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Hans, I have Kumar on ignore, but I saw what you just quoted.

Ye Gods and little fishes! Now I can't really believe this isn't some sort of incredibly complicated trolling exercise. Nobody could be so ignorant and yet so unaware of the depths of his own ignorance. It's simply not possible.

Rolfe.
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Old 21st October 2004, 12:58 PM   #393
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Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
Zombified, or any one else who knows physics better than a vet. Might he be referring to K-pions. Aren't they at the heart of CP violation distinguishing matter from anti-matter? Hence, in Kumar's garbled way, meaning the K-pion "can differanciate". But he has not understood that this non-symmetry between matter and anti-matter is not a general process that makes quantum particles distinguishable.

Just an idle speculation (but, I'll betcha I'm right)

Idle speculation withdrawn. The twit means Kirlian Photography.

Just move on people. Nothing to see here.
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Old 21st October 2004, 01:02 PM   #394
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Originally posted by Rolfe
Hans, I have Kumar on ignore, but I saw what you just quoted.

Ye Gods and little fishes! Now I can't really believe this isn't some sort of incredibly complicated trolling exercise. Nobody could be so ignorant and yet so unaware of the depths of his own ignorance. It's simply not possible.

Rolfe.
Oops, thank you for reminding me. OK, he's back on my ignore list, too.

You know, Kumar is not just ignorant. He is deliberately and selectively obtuse. He will carefully and quite deftly select whatever can be concocted to support his preconceived idea, and consistently ignore the rest. No matter how often he asks and is told that heat waves don't interact with individual atoms, he comes back and asks about electron levels.

All this is standard woo technique, I'm only wondering if he thinks he is fooling anybody here.

Hans
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Old 21st October 2004, 09:08 PM   #395
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Mr.Hans, Zombified, BSM, Rolfe, Others(who excit),

As indicated by you, excited states are reversed quickly & mostly purposeless(photon travel)--what is the use? Don't you follow basic science principals?

About Kirlian Photography: Have science checked/accounted for radiations/photons emitted & dead skin particles shedding around & from our body & radiations & particle shedding(by degradation of materias)? Can't these be differant among differant individuals & substances? Are these not enhanced on excitations & photographed?
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Old 21st October 2004, 09:30 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zombified
[b]Neither the water molecules nor the salt molecules tend to be in an excited state, so neither is going to be emitting photons at all.

Is it must that photons are emitte on excitation only? Can't these be emitted on going to lower energy level than the origional level as shown here: http://www.grandunification.com/jpgs...Level_Emit.jpg

Ignoring the problem I mentioned above, there's no information carried by the photon about where it came from. It is just a certain amount of energy. Another atom that absorbs the photon will only absorb exactly enough to raise an electron to an excited state plus or minus a small amount for change in the total momentum of the atom (recoil). An atom excited by a photon from one source is indistinguishable from an atom excited by a different source altogether.

I think differanciations in energy levels can make substances distinguishable. Are photons of differant energy not absorbed by water molecules which can make water molecules distinguishable from origional ones. Btw, what does it mean Molecular absorption:
Quote:
Molecular absorption
A typical molecule, M, has many different energy levels. When a molecule absorbs a photon, its energy is increased by an amount equal to the energy of the photon. The molecule then enters an excited state,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
Do molecules also absorb energy & if inter or intra molecular forces can be effected by this absorption or not?

Finally, an atom in an excited state is not stable - it will re-emit energy in the form of another photon in a short period of time. So if excited states were how you stored homeopathic information, then it wouldn't last more than microseconds.

I am talking about electrons going to lower energy level from the origional/grounded levls not from excited to ground level

Edit to add: I see you've posted some information about Kirlian photography. Now, Kirlian photography by itself is paranormal aside from any application to testing remedies. Are you claiming Kirlian photography works? Are you willing to put it to the test?

As per my previous post.
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Old 21st October 2004, 09:42 PM   #397
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar: On potentisation photons are emited by both Nacl & water say in 1:99 proportion. Nacl's emitted photons will have higher energy in comparisn to water's emmited photons & so these will tend to move towards water's molecules whose molecules/electron's have moved to low energy level due to emit of photons. ... In above sense, I feel that Nacl photons now will be absorbed by water molecules(due to low quantum energy level) & will be carried over as remedy's effect or information.
I see we're back to the NaCl molecules in water too.
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Old 21st October 2004, 11:07 PM   #398
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Mr.Hans, Zombified, BSM, Rolfe, Others(who excit),

As indicated by you, excited states are reversed quickly & mostly purposeless(photon travel)--what is the use? Don't you follow basic science principals?

Apart from why does everything has to be usefull, i have only this answer:

Ask God, he might know, if he exists.


Seriously, science tries to find out how things are and what realy happens. If something happens that seems useless(whatever defintion is for usefullness), science cannot help with this problem, because it only can answer questions if and how something is happening.

To answer the question, you would have to know what the usefullness or purpose of the universe is, then you could look at the different things that happen inside the universe and then conclude, if and how those things serve the purpose of the whole universe.

Now if you have a idea, what the purpose of the universe is, please tell so, maybe i can see why is it usefull for that purpose, that excited states reverse quickly without any obvious use.

Carn
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Old 22nd October 2004, 01:19 AM   #399
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[quote]Originally posted by Carn
Apart from why does everything has to be usefull, i have only this answer:

Ask God, he might know, if he exists.


Who says that HE does not exist. HE does exist, physically & most basic of all basis. We couldn't recognize or understand due to language differance is our fault. Moreover, HE is omini--present,potent & scient existing in mass & well distributed public since long/begining.

Seriously, science tries to find out how things are and what realy happens. If something happens that seems useless(whatever defintion is for usefullness), science cannot help with this problem, because it only can answer questions if and how something is happening.

It is the duty/purpose of science to answer questions if and how something is happening, which have life or till it dies by its own weaknesses. Life means any concept live in mass existing & well distributed people. If science can't, means its weakness/miss.

To answer the question, you would have to know what the usefullness or purpose of the universe is, then you could look at the different things that happen inside the universe and then conclude, if and how those things serve the purpose of the whole universe.

Usefullness or purpose of every concept including universe is 'to carry own' by creation, maintainance & destruction as seed to tree to seed....

Now if you have a idea, what the purpose of the universe is, please tell so, maybe i can see why is it usefull for that purpose, that excited states reverse quickly without any obvious use.

Nothing is without purpose. I am therefore, trying to know purpose of photon exchange. No doubt, it contribute spread of light where required & travel through opaque media, but I could not know its effect on this travel on atom.
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Old 22nd October 2004, 01:22 AM   #400
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Quote:
Originally posted by flume
I see we're back to the NaCl molecules in water too.
How then it will be justified that energy moves from higher level to lower level
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